MR

So, my Uncle caught Journey, Loverboy and Pat Benetar recently. He's not a massive Journey fan, but saw them before with Perry twice and was looking forward to this.

In the end, he came out disappointed. He loved Pat Benetar and Loverboy but found Journey quite disappointing. He thought Arnel struggled with some songs and probably had a bit of trouble adapting to it not being Steve Perry.

One thing he and his GF noted was something I hadn't heard before ... that Arnel seemed totally isolated on stage. They both commented that the Journey members all interacted with each other but no one seemed to interact at all with Arnel ... like he wasn't actually part of the band.

Thought that was an interesting observation.

Arnel has been struggling alot since last year... Even when I saw the band last August, he wasn't 100%. And I have been keeping an eye on videos this year and he sounds worse. Not horrible, but not like he was early on either. Once the North American leg started in '11 things started changing big time because he kicked major ass in the UK and South America just prior to, and in the original key as well.

Well the problem or better yet, the issue with someone who's seen Journey maybe something like 30+ years ago with SP as the vocalist and then 30+ years later going to see the band again is how old was SP when he was singing those same songs that now AP is singing 30+ years later? The same songs made famous by Journey when SP was in his 20's/30's are now being sung by AP who's in his mid 40's. That's the issues right there.

In regards to the AP's vocal ability, well there are alot of variables there, weather, health, age, off night, etc. I remember back in the day 80's, if he took off a few days, his vocal ability seemed to be off on the first night back on stage, next day would be better and the third day would be back to 150% excellent. Now 20+ years later, not sure if his voice goes through the same performance curb after time off, but it's a thought.

This catalog is a killer for singers. What "killed" Perry's voice wasn't the key.. it wasn't even how many times he had to sing those songs..

it was how often he had to sing the songs without rest in between. Touring is reason for his having to stop

Everyone knows that Perry's singing schedule with Journey was monstrous when compared to Augi's or Arnel's (which is even lighter than Augi's). What we''re forgetting is that Perry effectively stopped touring those songs with Journey in 1987, when he was "toast" at the age of 38, returning for TBF at the age of 46, only to leave again - never having to resume that touring schedule. Look at the ROR tour, Perry had only 60% of the dates from the previous tour.

• Perry effectively stopped singing Journey songs at 38 years old
• Augeri joined Journey at 39 years old
• Arnel joined Journey at 40 years old

Another perspective...

Years in band before vocal trouble:

• Augeri - 5 years
• Pineda - 5 years

Given the age that Augeri started at, that he lasted as long as he did (8 years) is pretty damn amazing... Journey history is a pretty clear indicator that anyone touring these songs past the age of 40, is "singing on borrowed time", and it should fairly obvious that Arnel is right in the age range where Journey singers have had to stop touring these songs. Physical abilities aside, fan personal preferences aside... history is still indicating the same thing..

Journey singers over 40 start developing vocal problems about the same time/age (44-45), and the cause is touring.

History is repeating itself again.

DracIsBack wrote: ... like he wasn't actually part of the band.

Anyway, yeah, the rest of the band with the exception of Deen, who's concealed behind the drums, and Neal, who's concealed behind his massive ego, has no conception of where they are.

To me, the entire band is WAY too spread out. They're so spread out that they don't really interact with each other.
Jon Cain, never cracks a smile. Neal and Arnel interact quite a bit. Ross... kind of does the Tim Conway walk but doesn't really interact that much. Deen does great and I see Arnel interact with him too.

The band needs to condense their stage footprint so it looks like they're in the same band.

brywool wrote:To me, the entire band is WAY too spread out. They're so spread out that they don't really interact with each other.
Jon Cain, never cracks a smile. Neal and Arnel interact quite a bit. Ross... kind of does the Tim Conway walk but doesn't really interact that much. Deen does great and I see Arnel interact with him too.

The band needs to condense their stage footprint so it looks like they're in the same band.

This would definitely help. Great point.

Yeah when I saw them it was the same way. I saw Neal and Arnel exchange some grins and guitar/air guitar shenanigans. Neal seemed to love the Torontonians, and he even locked eyes with me at one point (Given, I did kind of stand out with my long black hair and GUYLINER). Probably wondering what the hell a metalhead was doing fistpumping through whatever song it was. Anyway, they really need to recognize that they don't interact ENOUGH because it's a fun band to listen to and even more fun when they let themselves loose.

Folks,
This is not a recent trend. First of all, the band's always been spread out -- look at the old Escape stage design. It's like a giant airport tarmac allowing for SP to taxi all over the place in his Nike's.
They never had a claustrophobic set like Zeppelin, for example. And if you watch the early Revelation shows from '08, Arnel was no more or less social with other band members than he is now. As for Jon, he never smiles on stage. It's not his style.

I think the original members of this band tend to go onstage and dissolve mentally into their past. To them, a gig probably feels like a time warp -- a trip back to the early 80's when they were young and the world felt new. Truth be told, it's how we hope to feel when we go to a show. It's why we go.

Interacting too much with Arnel probably breaks the scene for them. It interrupts the fantasy. It's a reminder that he isn't Perry. He can't be. No one can. So they stay reclusive in their memories - behind their instruments - comfortable in the audible illusion that is this incarnation of Journey.

Cut 'em some slack.

FamilyMan wrote:As for Jon, he never smiles on stage. It's not his style.

Might not be now, but this wasn't always the case.

Gideon wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:As for Jon, he never smiles on stage. It's not his style.

Might not be now, but this wasn't always the case.

I'll grant you, he's less happy now. I agree. But find me a clip of a gleaming Jonathan Cain. (live)

FamilyMan wrote:

Gideon wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:As for Jon, he never smiles on stage. It's not his style.

Might not be now, but this wasn't always the case.

I'll grant you, he's less happy now. I agree. But find me a clip of a gleaming Jonathan Cain. (live)

http://youtu.be/AMDi05tiZ1I

tater1977 wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:

Gideon wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:As for Jon, he never smiles on stage. It's not his style.

Might not be now, but this wasn't always the case.

I'll grant you, he's less happy now. I agree. But find me a clip of a gleaming Jonathan Cain. (live)

http://youtu.be/AMDi05tiZ1I

Never saw this!!!! Where's the rest of this show?!

FamilyMan wrote:

tater1977 wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:

Gideon wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:As for Jon, he never smiles on stage. It's not his style.

Might not be now, but this wasn't always the case.

I'll grant you, he's less happy now. I agree. But find me a clip of a gleaming Jonathan Cain. (live)

http://youtu.be/AMDi05tiZ1I

Never saw this!!!! Where's the rest of this show?!

Its their 1981 Tokyo show..




JC is smiling under the towel...

tater1977 wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:

tater1977 wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:

Gideon wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:As for Jon, he never smiles on stage. It's not his style.

Might not be now, but this wasn't always the case.

I'll grant you, he's less happy now. I agree. But find me a clip of a gleaming Jonathan Cain. (live)

http://youtu.be/AMDi05tiZ1I

Never saw this!!!! Where's the rest of this show?!

Its their 1981 Tokyo show..

Maybe it's because things were more drug induced back then.

Lack of personalities in that bunch... saw a big difference when JSS was singing lead. He takes control & rules the band members and the crowd!

FormerJrnyFan wrote:Lack of personalities in that bunch... saw a big difference when JSS was singing lead. He takes control & rules the band members and the crowd!

He did.......
How long did that last?

Apparently he only thought he knew Neal. Tsk Tsk Tsk

tater1977 wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:

tater1977 wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:

Gideon wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:As for Jon, he never smiles on stage. It's not his style.

Might not be now, but this wasn't always the case.

I'll grant you, he's less happy now. I agree. But find me a clip of a gleaming Jonathan Cain. (live)

http://youtu.be/AMDi05tiZ1I

Never saw this!!!! Where's the rest of this show?!

Its their 1981 Tokyo show..




JC is smiling under the towel...

Why the heck don't they release some of these shows on DVD??!!??

FormerJrnyFan wrote:Lack of personalities in that bunch... saw a big difference when JSS was singing lead. He takes control & rules the band members and the crowd!

Definitely, was just watching this Hollywood Bowl clip recently and noticed that big time. LOL a rain soaked JSS literally had to coax Cain out onto the front part of the stage to play a little guitar. So much energy, wish I would have had the chance to see a LIVE JSS fronted Journey show.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwJ5VjbO4dg