MR

Happy birthday to Jon Cain, the most important figure in Journey's history.

Gideon wrote:Happy birthday to Jon Cain, the most important figure in Journey's history after Neal Schon and Steve Perry.

fixed it for ya..

Gideon wrote:Happy birthday to Jon Cain, the most important figure in Journey's history.

Sorry, Neal begs to differ.
Exhibit A: Eclipse

Neal can beg all he likes. Jon Cain singlehandedly transformed Journey into a world-class entity.

slucero wrote:

Gideon wrote:Happy birthday to Jon Cain, the most important figure in Journey's history before Neal Schon and Steve Perry.

fixed it for ya..

You fudged the correction, so I took care of it.

Though I am willing to concede Neal, since he founded the band. Journey needs to exist before they can become a world-class anything...

1. Neal Schon/Herbie Herbert
2. Jon Cain
3. Arnel Pineda
4. Steve Perry

Looks about right.

Gideon wrote:Neal can beg all he likes. Jon Cain singlehandedly transformed Journey into a world-class entity.

slucero wrote:

Gideon wrote:Happy birthday to Jon Cain, the most important figure in Journey's history before Neal Schon and Steve Perry.

fixed it for ya..

You fudged the correction, so I took care of it.

Though I am willing to concede Neal, since he founded the band. Journey needs to exist before they can become a world-class anything...

1. Neal Schon/Herbie Herbert
2. Jon Cain
3. Arnel Pineda
4. Steve Perry

Looks about right.

Singlehandedly is totally overstating it. It was Jon, Neal and Perry. Let's be fair.

nah.. it was Herbie Herbert... since it was his idea to pair up Schon with Rolie.. and start Journey in the 1st place..and then force Perry on the rest of them... Cain was just Rolie's suggested replacement.. by Rolie


so the correct order is:

• Herbie Herbert
• Neal Schon
• Steve Perry
• Jon Cain

Ain't if funny what a simple birthday thread can turn into around here?


Happy Birthday Jon!

slucero wrote:nah.. it was Herbie Herbert... since it was his idea to pair up Schon with Rolie.. and start Journey in the 1st place..and then force Perry on the rest of them... Cain was just Rolie's suggested replacement.. by Rolie


so the correct order is:

• Herbie Herbert
• Neal Schon
• Steve Perry
• Jon Cain

I'd put Perry above Schon, but ok.

steveo777 wrote:Ain't if funny what a simple birthday thread can turn into around here?


Happy Birthday Jon!

Amazing..

Pull the stick out of your ass before I replace it with mine. I'm just indulging in some weekly Loonbaiting.

That it happens to be in the Great Man's honor just makes it more fun.

Gideon wrote:Pull the stick out of your ass before I replace it with mine. I'm just indulging in some weekly Loonbaiting.

That it happens to be in the Great Man's honor just makes it more fun.

Have a snickers, Tito.

Meanwhile, at Disneyland.

"WHERE THE HELL ARE MY DAMN TACOS?"

Gideon wrote:Pull the stick out of your ass before I replace it with mine. I'm just indulging in some weekly Loonbaiting.

That it happens to be in the Great Man's honor just makes it more fun.

LOL

Gideon is "The Great LoonBaiter" after all..


the rest of us are mere CainSlayers...

Don wrote:Meanwhile, at Disneyland.

"WHERE THE HELL ARE MY DAMN TACOS?"

slucero wrote:Gideon is "The Great LoonBaiter" after all..


the rest of us are mere CainSlayers...

Please, I'm a Masterbaiter.

Gideon wrote:

slucero wrote:Gideon is "The Great LoonBaiter" after all..


the rest of us are mere CainSlayers...

Please, I'm a Masterbaiter.

We'll just have to take your word on that..

Journey wouldn't be Journey without Steve, Neal and Jon. Those 3 created the Journey we know and loved.
Journey will never be again without Steve.

No offense to Arnel but he is NOT Steve. You can look and look all over the world and you will NEVER find Steve Perry look a like or sing a like.

The only reason they are still around is because of the HYPE of Arnel and now because of Neals personal life which is giving life to Journey.

LookthruGlass wrote:Journey wouldn't be Journey without Steve, Neal and Jon. Those 3 created the Journey we know and loved.
Journey will never be again without Steve.

No offense to Arnel but he is NOT Steve. You can look and look all over the world and you will NEVER find Steve Perry look a like or sing a like.

The only reason they are still around is because of the HYPE of Arnel and now because of Neals personal life which is giving life to Journey.

Now hang on... Journey sans Steve Perry did survive nearly ten years without any "hype" whatsoever. That was a testament to the music, and the valiant effort by Augeri.
As for Arnel, if he didn't didn't have real pipes -- everyone would have seen through the hype right away and he wouldn't have had a whole documentary film done on him -- or an Oprah -- or a CBS Sunday Morning.

Let's be real. I agree, Perry Neal and Jon gave us the legacy we love. But they're still around because they still sound good and we like hearing 'em.

FamilyMan wrote:

LookthruGlass wrote:Journey wouldn't be Journey without Steve, Neal and Jon. Those 3 created the Journey we know and loved.
Journey will never be again without Steve.

No offense to Arnel but he is NOT Steve. You can look and look all over the world and you will NEVER find Steve Perry look a like or sing a like.

The only reason they are still around is because of the HYPE of Arnel and now because of Neals personal life which is giving life to Journey.

Now hang on... Journey sans Steve Perry did survive nearly ten years without any "hype" whatsoever. That was a testament to the music, and the valiant effort by Augeri.
As for Arnel, if he didn't didn't have real pipes -- everyone would have seen through the hype right away and he wouldn't have had a whole documentary film done on him -- or an Oprah -- or a CBS Sunday Morning.

Let's be real. I agree, Perry Neal and Jon gave us the legacy we love. But they're still around because they still sound good and we like hearing 'em.

This^

Like it or not, FamilyMan has hit the nail on the head. Thousands of people would not still be filling venues, were the band not still popular and relevant. To those who chose to jump ship because Perry is not in the band anymore.....well, that's your personal choice. You can't throw the no Perry-no Journey blanket on everyone. There was and is more to Journey than just Steve Perry. Was he great? Yes! Do we miss him? Yes! Was there a Journey before Perry and is there a Journey after him? Yes!

steveo777 wrote:Do we miss him? Yes!

Speak for yourself. I make no such concession to the Loon horde.

Going by their current setlist, the only relevant era of Journey appears to be between 1978 and 1983. Even ROR is no longer represented.
Journey isn't even giving a proper tribute to itself these days, displaying such a limited catalog for the live audiences.

I'd take Captured over any live soundboards band has from the past year. Even with DSB, Faithfully, etc. there is more diversity and soul shown in that live catalog of three albums than what the band is doing now, even with over six dozen songs at their disposal every night.

Captured is better by a mile vocally. But the Rolie era flat out blows. Flaccid rock and weaker ballads comparatively.

Gideon wrote:Captured is better by a mile vocally. But the Rolie era flat out blows. Flaccid rock and weaker ballads comparatively.

I love the Rolie era.. and I get that it's not yer cup o' tea.

Man I wish you could have seen this version of the band live Gid... it really was fucking amazing.

This was the beginning of the Escape tour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoP1AKcnfr8

Eventually they made it "home" and on Jun. 26, 1982, I was there.. at the Oakland Coliseum Oakland, Day on the Motherfucking Green. 50,000 plus, no gang banging, no moshing.. just beautiful hot summer weather, Journey, Santana, Toto, Gamma, The Tubes and people chillin' and having a good time.

This nght was the 1st time the world heard this (Separate Ways): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWqMV40Gkcg

What a great time to be alive.

They couldn't write a classic now to save their ass. They probably have already written a few but nobody's listening. Everytime they try the crowd takes a piss or sits down. What was that about getting on the radio? Artists do it all the time, every day. Journey really needs to break those chains that bind them. Every member of the band should read the book called "Teaching The Elephant To Dance".

“Trainers shackle young elephants with heavy chains to deeply embedded stakes? As time passes, the elephant learns to stay in its place and change does not occur.”

[quote="FamilyMan"][quote="LookthruGlass"]Journey wouldn't be Journey without Steve, Neal and Jon. Those 3 created the Journey we know and loved.
Journey will never be again without Steve.

No offense to Arnel but he is NOT Steve. You can look and look all over the world and you will NEVER find Steve Perry look a like or sing a like.

The only reason they are still around is because of the HYPE of Arnel and now because of Neals personal life which is giving life to Journey.[/quote]

Now hang on... Journey sans Steve Perry did survive nearly ten years without any "hype" whatsoever. That was a testament to the music, and the valiant effort by Augeri.
As for Arnel, if he didn't didn't have real pipes -- everyone would have seen through the hype right away and he wouldn't have had a whole documentary film done on him -- or an Oprah -- or a CBS Sunday Morning.

Let's be real. I agree, Perry Neal and Jon gave us the legacy we love. But they're still around because they still sound good and we like hearing 'em.[/quote]

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I stopped being a Journey fan when Steve left so I am no expert on the years between Perry and Arnel. Wasn't the Augeri years all fake, he could not sing the songs and taped the songs? When I heard that my heart dropped??? Did they have record deals in between?

They tried to REPLACE Steve, why not find a good singer for the direction you wish to take Journey and let them sing Perrys songs the way they want?

As far as Arnel I have nothing against him, the hype came from the fact of where he came from and how he was found. Now the hype is Neals personal life these things feed Journey. Right now Neal is pushing his solo project and not Journey, so that tells me a lot.

I have been a fan since 1977 but now Journey is done for me, someone on Facebook said and I agree "Journey is now a Tribute Band". I will stay around and watch the sinking ship! And buy the new CD from Steve Perry.

LookthruGlass wrote:
I stopped being a Journey fan when Steve left so I am no expert on the years between Perry and Arnel. Wasn't the Augeri years all fake, he could not sing the songs and taped the songs? When I heard that my heart dropped??? Did they have record deals in between?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Augeri

LookthruGlass wrote:They tried to REPLACE Steve, why not find a good singer for the direction you wish to take Journey and let them sing Perrys songs the way they want?

They didn't try to replace him.. they had no choice.. Steve's illness really screwed his voice up, he literally could not sing. His successor was Jeff Scott Soto.. no slouch. Journey even proclaimed they were moving in a new direction.. only to fire Jeff after one tour.

LookthruGlass wrote:As far as Arnel I have nothing against him, the hype came from the fact of where he came from and how he was found. Now the hype is Neals personal life these things feed Journey. Right now Neal is pushing his solo project and not Journey, so that tells me a lot.

Arnel isn't "hype".. he can really sing. The problem is that's all he can do. He's not a writer of Perry's caliber, and more importantly if he is, we'll never know because he's not an EQUAL writing partner (as Perry was) with Jon and Neal. Arnel really just sings.

LookthruGlass wrote:I have been a fan since 1977 but now Journey is done for me, someone on Facebook said and I agree "Journey is now a Tribute Band". I will stay around and watch the sinking ship! And buy the new CD from Steve Perry.

It's true Journey does appear to be in the twilight of their career.

I don't know how much of TWIMC was Arnel, but that song was as credible as anything Perry ever wrote.

Gideon wrote:I don't know how much of TWIMC was Arnel, but that song was as credible as anything Perry ever wrote.

From what I have gleamed, his brother's contribution was larger, while Cain of course was the main guy.

The other Pineda contribution, SAM supposedly originated with Schon about 2O years ago.

As far as credibility, I guess it could be equated to "if a tree fell in the forest, would any one hear it?"

Far be it from me to call Perry a great writer but when you see what is out there now lyrically with the newer acts, ti seems closer to SP's simple writings than anything that came after the band began maturing with Cain in the mix.

And another thing way beyond the writing is Perry's ability to make a melody, to take what Jon wrote and give it a form. Even Cain has spoken of that.
I really can't see Arnel doing that.
The guy flies in at the end, when the studio work is ready to be done. For better or worse, all the heavy lifting has already been done by Jon and Neal by then.