Jon Cain on Journey's Recording Future

[jrnyman28]

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Blabbermouth

"JOURNEY May Be Done Recording New Music - Mar. 6, 2013

According to The Pulse Of Radio, JOURNEY's recording days might be a thing of the past. Due to shifting audiences and the general nature of the music business, keyboardist Jonathan Cain thinks that maybe the band is done releasing new music. JOURNEY's last studio album, "Eclipse", was released in May 2011. The Walmart exclusive debuted on The Billboard 200 album chart at No. 13 — eight spots lower than the band's previous album, 2008's "Revelation" — which also went on to hit No. 1 on Billboard's Top Independent Albums chart.

Jonathan Cain told The Pulse Of Radio that the pressing need for new JOURNEY music has seemed to fade. "Y'know, we're not convinced the market will bear another CD from us, y'know?" he said. "And it's so much work to make one. Y'know, maybe we get a soundtrack shot with a movie. And the last album we made was a departure. It was Neil [Schon's] 'I wanna do one this way once' — and so we did. Y'know, we did a heavy, rock n' roll record. And it kinda wasn't received very well here in the States and they kinda liked it in Europe and that's kinda what I thought was gonna happen and it barely sold 100,000 [copies]."

Cain went on to explain that after "Eclipse" failed to score with both old fans and new converts, the entire band has had to pause and take stock of where they're at creatively.

"After all that time and money, y'know, what are we doing here, y'know?" he said. "So, we have a great catalogue here, right now to play. We got a lot of songs that we're not even playing. So, we're like, 'What's the point of makin' a new CD right now?' Y'know, if anything, we'll make an EP."

JOURNEY will next appear on Thursday (March 7) with DEEP PURPLE in Perth, Australia.

Coming to theatres on Friday (March in select cities — and available starting Saturday (March 9) on most On Demand services — is "Don't Stop Believin': Everyman's Journey".

The film chronicles the rags-to-riches story JOURNEY's current Steve Perry-sound-alike lead singer, Arnel Pineda, from his poverty stricken days in the Philippines to fronting the band today."


>>>Sounds like a case of the "I-told-you-so's" from Jon.

[Don]

Well, that kinda answers that. I think one of the things they over banked on was the fan base Arnel brought along. They probably figured slap his name on a few songwriting credits and AP's sophomore effort with the band will sell like hotcakes with that demographic. I'm not sure if the album even moved 1,000 copies in the Philippines. Definitely agree with the unspoken sentiment that Jon is saying "I told you so."

2½ albums from Augeri, maybe 2½ albums from Pineda. I guess that about wraps it up. Now just tour forever or until the wheels start falling off.
Neal's still got another solo album in the can so he's got another release he can look forward to at least.

[Rick]

If you're going to release an album and not promote it any better than what was done with Eclipse, then you're out of touch with reality if you expect it to do any better than it did.

My thoughts on that are this. There was no promotional support for Eclipse because Journey didn't release a radio friendly album. They released an album of music the guys wanted to do. That is what you should expect when you do something like that.

Go back to square one. Release a Journey album that is radio friendly, like you've had success with in the past, and you'll see a big difference in attitude toward that end.

[Don]

If you're going to release an album and not promote it any better than what was done with Eclipse, then you're out of touch with reality if you expect it to do any better than it did.

My thoughts on that are this. There was no promotional support for Eclipse because Journey didn't release a radio friendly album. They released an album of music the guys wanted to do. That is what you should expect when you do something like that.

Go back to square one. Release a Journey album that is radio friendly, like you've had success with in the past, and you'll see a big difference in attitude toward that end.

I don't think that is so much the majority thinking now. When it came out, of course they were all inboard with it but it's been two interviews in the last few months now where Jon has hinted that he wasn't totally thrilled about it.

Eclipse was also a freebee that they earned from Wal-Mart because of the success of Revelation. From the looks of it that ship has sailed. The retailer's days o fthrowing money at dinosaur acts for loss leader products are over.

[Rick]

If you're going to release an album and not promote it any better than what was done with Eclipse, then you're out of touch with reality if you expect it to do any better than it did.

My thoughts on that are this. There was no promotional support for Eclipse because Journey didn't release a radio friendly album. They released an album of music Neal wanted to do. That is what you should expect when you do something like that.

Go back to square one. Release a Journey album that is radio friendly, like you've had success with in the past, and you'll see a big difference in attitude toward that end.

I don't think that is so much the majority thinking now. When it came out, of course they were all inboard with it but it's been two interviews in the last few months now where Jon has hinted that he wasn't totally thrilled about it.

Does that look better?

[Don]

If you're going to release an album and not promote it any better than what was done with Eclipse, then you're out of touch with reality if you expect it to do any better than it did.

My thoughts on that are this. There was no promotional support for Eclipse because Journey didn't release a radio friendly album. They released an album of music Neal wanted to do. That is what you should expect when you do something like that.

Go back to square one. Release a Journey album that is radio friendly, like you've had success with in the past, and you'll see a big difference in attitude toward that end.

I don't think that is so much the majority thinking now. When it came out, of course they were all inboard with it but it's been two interviews in the last few months now where Jon has hinted that he wasn't totally thrilled about it.

Does that look better?

Ans he still wants more; two solo albums and a jaunt with Santana next, could Neal possibly be bored with Journey music? Just touring to pay the bills now?

[Rick]

If you're going to release an album and not promote it any better than what was done with Eclipse, then you're out of touch with reality if you expect it to do any better than it did.

My thoughts on that are this. There was no promotional support for Eclipse because Journey didn't release a radio friendly album. They released an album of music Neal wanted to do. That is what you should expect when you do something like that.

Go back to square one. Release a Journey album that is radio friendly, like you've had success with in the past, and you'll see a big difference in attitude toward that end.

I don't think that is so much the majority thinking now. When it came out, of course they were all inboard with it but it's been two interviews in the last few months now where Jon has hinted that he wasn't totally thrilled about it.

Does that look better?

Ans he still wants more; two solo albums and a jaunt with Santana next, could Neal possibly be bored with Journey music? Just touring to pay the bills now?

Journey has been Neal's cash cow, but if that tit has dried up, then a gig with Santana probably looks really good. Which, to me says, he's seeing the end of the road for Journey.

[Gideon]

The music industry is not my area of expertise, but I gotta concur with Rick: they didn't promote or tour behind the album. I think Neal stupidly assumed it would just sell itself.

Hopefully they'll collaborate with Rascal Flatts on a tune to get some publicity. Half assed attempts beget half assed results. They've still got the gifts and goods, it's too bad they've lost all sense.

[Don]

The music industry is not my area of expertise, but I gotta concur with Rick: they didn't promote or tour behind the album. I think Neal stupidly assumed it would just sell itself.

Hopefully they'll collaborate with Rascal Flatts on a tune to get some publicity. Half assed attempts beget half assed results. They've still got the gifts and goods, it's too bad they've lost all sense.

"After all that time and money, y'know, what are we doing here, y'know?"
"Y'know..y'know..y'know..kinda..kinda..kinda"... When did Jon start talking like Neal?

They were harping about a new generation of fans but they didn't market to them.
Didn't make the album available on iTunes initially. Didn't tell anyone the mp3 album was on Amazon (and at a cheaper price than Wal-Mart's); as a matter of fact, they kept telling people that it was ONLY available at Wal-Mart when that wasn't true.
Then a month later, Wal-Mart eliminates digital downloads and Journey STILL doesn't tell anyone that the album is on Amazon or iTunes.
Three months later, the Greatest Hits 2 by Sony begins getting promoted on the Front page of Journey's website even though Eclipse still hasn't reached any type of sales target and despite the current band having basically no ties to Sony/BMG anymore.

I thought they missed the boat by not getting on the Tron Legacy soundtrack. Human Feel would have been perfect for that film. Now days, they're battling against their own back catalog when it comes to being featured in a movie.

[FamilyMan]

If you're going to release an album and not promote it any better than what was done with Eclipse, then you're out of touch with reality if you expect it to do any better than it did.

My thoughts on that are this. There was no promotional support for Eclipse because Journey didn't release a radio friendly album. They released an album of music the guys wanted to do. That is what you should expect when you do something like that.

Go back to square one. Release a Journey album that is radio friendly, like you've had success with in the past, and you'll see a big difference in attitude toward that end.

It's not their fault Eclipse wasn't promoted. Without SONY or a major label behind a project, there's no such thing. When we had them on CBS Sunday Morning the 2nd time, the newspeg was the 30th Anniversary of DSB. Though we talked about "City of Hope" as an homage to Arnel's back story, Neal still came away upset that we didn't talk more about the new album. But if it weren't for DSB, there wouldn't have even been a TV piece to begin with. Unless one of these guys hosts "The Voice" or "Idol" sometime soon, there won't be new music from this band.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Cain made similar statements (including "we will only make EPs from here forward") after Arrival flopped. He sounds delusional.
Arrival, Red 13, Generations, and Eclipse all did poorly. It doesn't really matter if the cd is all ballads or all rock.
Without the nostalgic DSB tie-in, the mass buying public does not really care.
Given the band's history of non-success on the charts, I was impressed that Eclipse debuted as well as it did.
Here's the bottom line....as a musician/artist, do you want to create new music or do you just want to take the path of least resistance and get paid?
Seems like Cain is opting for the latter. Only Schon can save us now.

[The_Noble_Cause]

From the looks of it that ship has sailed. The retailer's days o fthrowing money at dinosaur acts for loss leader products are over.

Forget the person's exact title, but Walmart actually fired the person who gave all these exclusive recording/distribution deals to older acts (Loverboy, Richard Marx, Journey, REO etc)

[Don]

If you're going to release an album and not promote it any better than what was done with Eclipse, then you're out of touch with reality if you expect it to do any better than it did.

My thoughts on that are this. There was no promotional support for Eclipse because Journey didn't release a radio friendly album. They released an album of music the guys wanted to do. That is what you should expect when you do something like that.

Go back to square one. Release a Journey album that is radio friendly, like you've had success with in the past, and you'll see a big difference in attitude toward that end.

It's not their fault Eclipse wasn't promoted. Without SONY or a major label behind a project, there's no such thing. When we had them on CBS Sunday Morning the 2nd time, the newspeg was the 30th Anniversary of DSB. Though we talked about "City of Hope" as an homage to Arnel's back story, Neal still came away upset that we didn't talk more about the new album. But if it weren't for DSB, there wouldn't have even been a TV piece to begin with. Unless one of these guys hosts "The Voice" or "Idol" sometime soon, there won't be new music from this band.

It IS there fault. They knew that they didn't have a label to do the heavy lifting with this album yet they let every radio and TV interview sidetrack into Arnel's story or Neal's rants about Steve Perry. And as I mentioned above, they never promoted it as being on Amazon for a cheaper price. It was always about buying it only at Wal-Mart even after the retailer discontinued its digital download sales a month later.
Journey is definitely to blame here.

Its availability on iTunes (which came later) should have been promoted to the heavens on this. A month after Eclipse was released, Apple put the Greatest Hits on sale for a dollar less (Fathers Day) and that old album moved 27,000 units in two days while Eclipse just rotted on the shelves.

[steveo777]

Does Journey even have a marketing department, other than those who handle concert promos? Yes the Journey brand is at fault for piss poor marketing of Eclipse, but which person or entity is accountable for it?

[slucero]

Does Journey even have a marketing department, other than those who handle concert promos? Yes the Journey brand is at fault for piss poor marketing of Eclipse, but which person or entity is accountable for it?

[steveo777]

Does Journey even have a marketing department, other than those who handle concert promos? Yes the Journey brand is at fault for piss poor marketing of Eclipse, but which person or entity is accountable for it?

So, in other words he's just lining his pockets off of the tours of the bands he manages and could give two shits about music sales. Do I have this right?

[slucero]

Does Journey even have a marketing department, other than those who handle concert promos? Yes the Journey brand is at fault for piss poor marketing of Eclipse, but which person or entity is accountable for it?

So, in other words he's just lining his pockets off of the tours of the bands he manages and could give two shits about music sales. Do I have this right?

no that would be in your words..

I'm just answering your question regarding "which person or entity is accountable"

[jrny84]

Does Journey even have a marketing department, other than those who handle concert promos? Yes the Journey brand is at fault for piss poor marketing of Eclipse, but which person or entity is accountable for it?

Good question. If they do have a marketing department, its pathetic. There is no excuse for a band of Journey's stature to have almost no promotion for a new album. Also, even their greatest hits 2 was hardly promoted by sony and has been a flop in sales. Even essential was promoted quite a bit, especially in commercials/tv.

[jrny84]

Does Journey even have a marketing department, other than those who handle concert promos? Yes the Journey brand is at fault for piss poor marketing of Eclipse, but which person or entity is accountable for it?

Good question. If they do have a marketing department, its pathetic. There is no excuse for a band of Journey's stature to have almost no promotion for a new album. Also, even their greatest hits 2 was hardly promoted by sony and has been a flop in sales. Even essential was promoted quite a bit, especially in commercials/tv.

[Eric]

Cain made similar statements (including "we will only make EPs from here forward") after Arrival flopped. He sounds delusional.
Arrival, Red 13, Generations, and Eclipse all did poorly. It doesn't really matter if the cd is all ballads or all rock.
Without the nostalgic DSB tie-in, the mass buying public does not really care.
Given the band's history of non-success on the charts, I was impressed that Eclipse debuted as well as it did.
Here's the bottom line....as a musician/artist, do you want to create new music or do you just want to take the path of least resistance and get paid?
Seems like Cain is opting for the latter. Only Schon can save us now.

Yep..same thing after Arrival...and then the same message was conveyed it sounds like even to Jeremey. Then a few months later they were recording a brand new album.

They better make new music, again, because that is what differentiates them from many of their peers. I will not support a Journey that doesn't make new music.

[Eric]

Does Journey even have a marketing department, other than those who handle concert promos? Yes the Journey brand is at fault for piss poor marketing of Eclipse, but which person or entity is accountable for it?

Good question. If they do have a marketing department, its pathetic. There is no excuse for a band of Journey's stature to have almost no promotion for a new album. Also, even their greatest hits 2 was hardly promoted by sony and has been a flop in sales. Even essential was promoted quite a bit, especially in commercials/tv.

You mean like someone to notice "Anything is Possible" is charting without even being released....and maybe respond to that by releasing it as a single and telling the band to add it to their setlist?

Or maybe, knowing that a movie about the band is coming out in March '13...and promoting a tour around it (rather than being out of the country)?

You mean simple 101 things like that?

[marco17]

I don't think they really care. A number of people have expressed this opinion over the past few years and I agree, that it didn't matter who was singing on Revelation +GH, it would have done well because Journey stumbled into a PR's managers dream with DSB all over the place. People didn't pay attention before and haven't since. To expect Eclipse to do as well, was probably unrealistic, and they conceded to let Neal make one final splash, doing what he wanted. Were there some good songs on it, sure, but the "typical" Journey fan would easily be turned off by it. More importantly, everyone knows the artists make their money touring now, not selling new releases, so why waste the time and money recording something new. It's an ego thing for them. They want to see the fans jump up and down and sing along, they don't want to see everyone sit down or head to the beer cart when they start playing something new and unfamiliar. Cain seems to be a realist in the interview... saying they have a ton of good material they don't even play. How many people on this board moan they don't play enough of those tracks, let alone trying to add new material. Cain's also trying to get into the Nashville scene, and he may feel that he can contribute better as a songwriter to others now then writing for Journey. Neal has his solo stuff and Santana on the horizon, so other than filling the bank accounts, what effort do they want to put into Journey? They've been back on the Journey horse since 1998 with Augeri, Soto (short-lived), and now Arnel. That's another 15 years of working at the "machine" that maybe getting tired, or isn't as exciting to them as it once was, and maybe their priorities are changing. Another band that I think of in this vein is Chicago... Even when Bill Champlin was still in the band, go to a live show in the last 15 years and see how many 80's to current songs they play. You'll need one hand's worth of fingers, and not all 5 of them, maybe 3 on a good night, and that's Hard Habit to Break and You're the Inspiration. They hardly ever even play something Jason Scheff sang on and he's been with them since '86. They have tried to put out new material and it's "flopped" because nobody wants to hear it, even though a lot of it was good. Coincidentally, they too worked with Rascal Flatts on a couple tracks, but the collaboration didn't do anything to help them out. Maybe Journey's experience will be different. Sorry this got a little long winded.

[Arkansas]

... Unless one of these guys hosts "The Voice" or "Idol" sometime soon, there won't be new music from this band.

I always thought Jon Cain would be good on Trump's 'Celebrity Apprentice'. Journey would get major network publicity every week of the season by default, and some of the other guys could occasionally show up for the various fund raisers. And maybe JC would even write a company jingle or do some recording during some of the projects. I don't know how much Journey could parlay this into promoting new music for the band, but it would definitely help keep the catalog alive a little longer.

As far as Voice or AI, maybe Jon Cain could help revive the 'Nashville Star' show.


later~

[jrny84]

Another band that I think of in this vein is Chicago... Even when Bill Champlin was still in the band, go to a live show in the last 15 years and see how many 80's to current songs they play. You'll need one hand's worth of fingers, and not all 5 of them, maybe 3 on a good night, and that's Hard Habit to Break and You're the Inspiration. They hardly ever even play something Jason Scheff sang on and he's been with them since '86. They have tried to put out new material and it's "flopped" because nobody wants to hear it, even though a lot of it was good. Coincidentally, they too worked with Rascal Flatts on a couple tracks, but the collaboration didn't do anything to help them out. Maybe Journey's experience will be different. Sorry this got a little long winded.

Yeah, Chicago has had the same problem for a while now with releasing new music. They dont even play "Will You Still Love Me" live in concert which was a big hit for Scheff back in the late 80s. Journey though seems to have a much more loyal and larger fan base than Chicago, at least here in the states. Chicago is playing to less than 1,500 people a night at pretty small venues. Sometimes its hard to believe, because this band has sold a boat load of records in the states up until the early to mid 90s.

I dont know if people just aren't interested in new Journey music because all they want is the catalogue of hits or because "the voice" is longer at the helm. Even Van Halen's latest album I heard was hardly promoted and has only sold around 300,000 copies, which is especially a flop for them.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You mean like someone to notice "Anything is Possible" is charting without even being released....and maybe respond to that by releasing it as a single and telling the band to add it to their setlist?

Exactly. If "Never Walk Away" and "AATY" got regular radio airplay, AIP could've had legs too...if they supported it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

For the record, Revelation and Eclipse were also only going to be EPs. In both cases, they had 4 or 5 new tracks and then Neal pushed the band (i.e. Cain & Mngmnt ) to make a full album.

[marco17]

Another band that I think of in this vein is Chicago... Even when Bill Champlin was still in the band, go to a live show in the last 15 years and see how many 80's to current songs they play. You'll need one hand's worth of fingers, and not all 5 of them, maybe 3 on a good night, and that's Hard Habit to Break and You're the Inspiration. They hardly ever even play something Jason Scheff sang on and he's been with them since '86. They have tried to put out new material and it's "flopped" because nobody wants to hear it, even though a lot of it was good. Coincidentally, they too worked with Rascal Flatts on a couple tracks, but the collaboration didn't do anything to help them out. Maybe Journey's experience will be different. Sorry this got a little long winded.

Yeah, Chicago has had the same problem for a while now with releasing new music. They dont even play "Will You Still Love Me" live in concert which was a big hit for Scheff back in the late 80s. Journey though seems to have a much more loyal and larger fan base than Chicago, at least here in the states. Chicago is playing to less than 1,500 people a night at pretty small venues. Sometimes its hard to believe, because this band has sold a boat load of records in the states up until the early to mid 90s.

I dont know if people just aren't interested in new Journey music because all they want is the catalogue of hits or because "the voice" is longer at the helm. Even Van Halen's latest album I heard was hardly promoted and has only sold around 300,000 copies, which is especially a flop for them.

Good points... I agree with you.. For Chicago to sell, they do the same shed tours with another "classic" act like the Doobies or EWF. Like J, it's been the same show for years, so I've quit going.

I think with J, they want the hits... we'd all like the think that these bands cater to the die hard, but it's the casual fan who goes to the concert, and remembers hearing "X" song when they were growing up, in high school, or whatever, a throw back to a more innocent time in your life.

[maverick218]

Does Journey even have a marketing department, other than those who handle concert promos? Yes the Journey brand is at fault for piss poor marketing of Eclipse, but which person or entity is accountable for it?

So, in other words he's just lining his pockets off of the tours of the bands he manages and could give two shits about music sales. Do I have this right?

no that would be in your words..

I'm just answering your question regarding "which person or entity is accountable"

Should have kept Herbie

[FamilyMan]

If you're going to release an album and not promote it any better than what was done with Eclipse, then you're out of touch with reality if you expect it to do any better than it did.

My thoughts on that are this. There was no promotional support for Eclipse because Journey didn't release a radio friendly album. They released an album of music the guys wanted to do. That is what you should expect when you do something like that.

Go back to square one. Release a Journey album that is radio friendly, like you've had success with in the past, and you'll see a big difference in attitude toward that end.

It's not their fault Eclipse wasn't promoted. Without SONY or a major label behind a project, there's no such thing. When we had them on CBS Sunday Morning the 2nd time, the newspeg was the 30th Anniversary of DSB. Though we talked about "City of Hope" as an homage to Arnel's back story, Neal still came away upset that we didn't talk more about the new album. But if it weren't for DSB, there wouldn't have even been a TV piece to begin with. Unless one of these guys hosts "The Voice" or "Idol" sometime soon, there won't be new music from this band.

It IS there fault. They knew that they didn't have a label to do the heavy lifting with this album yet they let every radio and TV interview sidetrack into Arnel's story or Neal's rants about Steve Perry.

You can't blame them for where radio and TV interviewers decide to go. They're not big enough anymore to make conditions on what they'll discuss. They will take whatever PR they can get. They just can't get enough.

[Yoda]

Look, the truth is, management probably lost faith in Journey when Steve Perry left the band. It's common knowledge - at least to us who are over the age of 30 - Perry was the driving force that brought them success. Or at least, I betcha that is how management viewed the band. So, instead of telling them to disband, they probably felt they [the management] would squeeze as much juice out of this turnip as possible and just have the band make as much money as they could by touring as much as they were able to, and letting them make new music to appease their fans and legal obligations. IF Journey was to be successful on any new albums they released, it would come from some outside source - which happened to be the resurgence of the band's classic music. While I firmly believe the success of Revelation came through "artificial" means (Revelation counted as two-discs which one having the classics on it & the resurgence of "Don't Stop Believing") Journey still made a great effort, in my opinion, to put out some great material without Steve Perry writing and singing for them. However, I don't care how great the music was/is, I don't think it was going to get any great push unless Perry came back.

There's something to be said for a classic band to have all of their classic lineup active and putting out music - especially a band that had such a signature singer for them throughout the 80's. I just think management felt it wouldn't ever work and was unwilling to take a huge chance on them at this point. IF AOR music had still widely been popular on top 40 radio, it might have worked, but not in this day and age.