Folks...is it time...

[mmberry301]

For Journey to call it a day...

For Sony to FINALLY FUC!<ING release the demos and unfinished tracks they have collected for years..keeping the bands' catalog evergreen and money coming in for the guys.
(This goes for the Steve Perry demos too...)

For all of us to say thank you to this band we have all supported, celebrate the music we've been given and move on to support newer artists.

I know I'll get toasted for this...but for me personally it is time to move on.

I love this board and I'm on here quite a bit (usually don't login most of the time)

Discuss....

[Eric]

For Journey to call it a day...

For Sony to FINALLY FUC!<ING release the demos and unfinished tracks they have collected for years..keeping the bands' catalog evergreen and money coming in for the guys.
(This goes for the Steve Perry demos too...)

For all of us to say thank you to this band we have all supported, celebrate the music we've been given and move on to support newer artists.

I know I'll get toasted for this...but for me personally it is time to move on.

I love this board and I'm on here quite a bit (usually don't login most of the time)

Discuss....

If they're not going to make new music then the answer is YES.

[Don]

Sony won't release that stuff for another ten years, if ever.
If the band wants to tour into oblivion that's there prerogative. They owe it to Arnel I guess. Once he is done with Journey what has Pineda to go back to? The myth that Pineda is some type of superstar in his home land is just that, a myth. The people didn't care about him before Journey and after the initial euphoria, they seem to be losing interest in him again. His night club project has gone through some hard times too. As the guy doesn't get any royalties, it would only be fair for the band to butter his bread a few more times with touring.

[mmberry301]

Sony won't release that stuff for another ten years, if ever.
If the band wants to tour into oblivion that's there prerogative. They owe it to Arnel I guess. Once he is done with Journey what has Pineda to go back to? The myth that Pineda is some type of superstar in his home land is just that, a myth. The people didn't care about him before Journey and after the initial euphoria, they seem to be losing interest in him again. His night club project has gone through some hard times too. As the guy doesn't get any royalties, it would only be fair for the band to butter his bread a few more times with touring.

After reading your post that sounds about right..

[Tomulator]

In the words of the Eagles...

"I'm already gone!"

Tommy Out.

[jrny84]

Like many others have said, Sony has no interest in supporting or promoting a Perry-less Journey. Its pretty evident that Sony people see Steve Perry as the success/driving force in Journey and have on interest in anything that isnt consisting of Journey with Perry. They dont even really contact Journey when putting out new compilations albums or dvds, they go straight to Perry...that says alot right there. For Sony, Steve is why Journey was so popular and why they sold so many records for their label.

[FamilyMan]

In the words of the Eagles...

"I'm already gone!"

Tommy Out.

Yet you're still here

[Tomulator]

Nope. Gone.

Again...

[slucero]

following Journey has now become like watching the end of a NASCAR race..

[Don]

following Journey has now become like watching the end of a NASCAR race..

If it's a restrictor plate race where they all just fall into one long line the last 100 laps.

[annie89509]

Like many others have said, Sony has no interest in supporting or promoting a Perry-less Journey. Its pretty evident that Sony people see Steve Perry as the success/driving force in Journey and have on interest in anything that isnt consisting of Journey with Perry. They dont even really contact Journey when putting out new compilations albums or dvds, they go straight to Perry...that says alot right there. For Sony, Steve is why Journey was so popular and why they sold so many records for their label.

Be careful! Statements like these will encourage the wrath of the high-mighty Master LoonBaiter, Giddy!

[Gideon]

Like many others have said, Sony has no interest in supporting or promoting a Perry-less Journey. Its pretty evident that Sony people see Steve Perry as the success/driving force in Journey and have on interest in anything that isnt consisting of Journey with Perry. They dont even really contact Journey when putting out new compilations albums or dvds, they go straight to Perry...that says alot right there. For Sony, Steve is why Journey was so popular and why they sold so many records for their label.

Be careful! Statements like these will encourage the wrath of the high-mighty Master LoonBaiter, Giddy!

I seem to cross your mind a lot. I don't know if I should be flattered or frightened.

[annie89509]

Like many others have said, Sony has no interest in supporting or promoting a Perry-less Journey. Its pretty evident that Sony people see Steve Perry as the success/driving force in Journey and have on interest in anything that isnt consisting of Journey with Perry. They dont even really contact Journey when putting out new compilations albums or dvds, they go straight to Perry...that says alot right there. For Sony, Steve is why Journey was so popular and why they sold so many records for their label.

Be careful! Statements like these will encourage the wrath of the high-mighty Master LoonBaiter, Giddy!

I seem to cross your mind a lot. I don't know if I should be flattered or frightened.

Don't flatter yourself....you're just an annoying little pipsqueak to me...like a knat that needs to be swatted away...

[artist4perry]

If some of you wish to bail so be it. Those of us who are still fans will not. I guess I am a fan for life, not just when my cynical snide self wants to dump the band because they are not as hot as I expect them to be on the popularity charts. Never bugged me before, doesn't bug me now. I think it is up to the band as to how long they wish to tour and do what they want with their lives, after all it is their lives not yours to decide. That would be like telling an artist to stop painting or drawing because they are no longer the latest thing. If you think popularity dictates when an artist has to stop creating then you don't know much about being an artist in the first place.

[The_Noble_Cause]

As another poster on here says, every year the band has only gotten bigger and bigger. If they didn't call it quits during the publicity-starved Augeri era, why would they hang it up now? They can continue to ride the DSB revival into the sunset. As long as Arnel holds up, Neal will force the band to release some new tunes. Onward.

[Yoda]

As another poster on here says, every year the band has only gotten bigger and bigger.

They have?

If they didn't call it quits during the publicity-starved Augeri era, why would they hang it up now?

In terms of commercial success to failure ratio, I definitely agree. That wasn't a "problem" back then, shouldn't be a problem now. What I think WOULD be an indication of the band to let the sun set on them is if they have no intentions of writing new material - and from the indications of Cain's recent interviews, he doesn't sound so thrilled about the current state of songwriting. A good third song writer could possibly change that.

They can continue to ride the DSB revival into the sunset. As long as Arnel holds up, Neal will force the band to release some new tunes. Onward.

I don't think Neal has THAT much pull over Cain in terms of forcing him to keep writing. At some point, Cain is going to say, "Ya know what? I'm done." I don't get the impression that Cain feels he needs to keep touring until he's dead. He's proven everything he needs to prove, and his new gig is going to be what keeps him busy for years to come. If Schon still has that need to keep touring, let him join Santana or get involved with a bunch of side projects ala Jeff Scott Soto. But, I don't believe for one second that Schon has Cain held hostage in Journey. I think he's extremely dependant on Cain.

[The_Noble_Cause]

As another poster on here says, every year the band has only gotten bigger and bigger.

They have?

If they didn't call it quits during the publicity-starved Augeri era, why would they hang it up now?

In terms of commercial success to failure ratio, I definitely agree. That wasn't a "problem" back then, shouldn't be a problem now. What I think WOULD be an indication of the band to let the sun set on them is if they have no intentions of writing new material - and from the indications of Cain's recent interviews, he doesn't sound so thrilled about the current state of songwriting. A good third song writer could possibly change that.

They can continue to ride the DSB revival into the sunset. As long as Arnel holds up, Neal will force the band to release some new tunes. Onward.

I don't think Neal has THAT much pull over Cain in terms of forcing him to keep writing. At some point, Cain is going to say, "Ya know what? I'm done." I don't get the impression that Cain feels he needs to keep touring until he's dead. He's proven everything he needs to prove, and his new gig is going to be what keeps him busy for years to come. If Schon still has that need to keep touring, let him join Santana or get involved with a bunch of side projects ala Jeff Scott Soto. But, I don't believe for one second that Schon has Cain held hostage in Journey. I think he's extremely dependant on Cain.

You're entitled to your opinion. I don't think I need to argue that the band has done increasingly better year after year, with Revelation/DSB prolly being the post-Perry era high point. Even now, they are doing steady, if not spectacular business, especially given that they are w/out their most recognizable member. As for Cain...he made the exact same "we're done with albums" comment after Arrival. How did that turn out? Neal is a road dog and likes to have new tunes to tour behind. I wouldn't be surprised if the band announced a new EP within 6 months.

[Yoda]

You're entitled to your opinion. I don't think I need to argue that the band has done increasingly better year after year, with Revelation/DSB prolly being the post-Perry era high point. Even now, they are doing steady, if not spectacular business, especially given that they are w/out their most recognizable member.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion as well, and I certainly agree with you in terms of Revelation (despite the weird double count on the album.) However, it's a bit comical to lump DSB in with post-Perry success, when that isn't really success the band has achieved post Steve Perry. With that said, I do understand where you're coming from with your view of post Steve Perry success.

However, as I see it, Journey started the upward trend when JSS came aboard and bailed them out on the tour with Def Leppard, and then soon after, the Revelation success with Arnel. However, once the DSB craze had died down (and it did shortly after the Glee thing,) I don't really see where Journey has gotten better and better. Eclipse did poorly, the band doesn't even play new songs (or very limited if any) on tour, and they have been touring in a three band package deal, all the while, having reports of bad sound, sickness, and dropping attendance numbers. So, I can't really agree that Journey has been spectacular these last couple of years.

I could come closer to agreeing that they have been steady, although that can be a bit of a reach as well. Most have been able to see that the band's popularity is probably starting to die down a bit. What does seem interesting is that when there is something that sparks interest in the band, it's usually because of a past classic hit, and then we hear a bunch of Steve Perry interviews.

As for Cain...he made the exact same "we're done with albums" comment after Arrival. How did that turn out?

Well, they did the Red 13 EP, so they were pretty much doing what Cain had spoken about. Generations, certain an album, but a poorly done album with a couple gems, but mostly rushed. Was that Cain's call, Augeri's call, or Schon's call on that? If left up to Cain, they probably would have continued the EP route, which probably would have been more beneficial in retrospect. I do think the turn of events with Augeri leaving the band, JSS coming aboard, gave them a shot in the arm to be excited over doing another album with yet another singer - and eventually doing that album with Arnel. Not to mention the Walmart deal - that's where Journey showed their capitalist tendencies and it paid off. The last album was definitely all Schon's baby, so we can't blame that on Cain. Besides, you're comparing over a decade ago to now. We're not talking about a member of the band who was once 30 years old, now he's 40. We're talking about a man who's pretty close to retirement age, and I'm sure Cain would like to settle down and spend more time writing for younger artists and taking it easy. That is why I believe Cain more now in terms of dialing back the songwriting than what he stated a decade ago.

Neal is a road dog and likes to have new tunes to tour behind. I wouldn't be surprised if the band announced a new EP within 6 months.

Absolutely true in regards to Neal being a road dog, but now you're talking about a new EP - not a whole new album. Which is exactly what I have been saying. Certainly I could see Journey putting out an EP every once in awhile, but writing a few songs for an EP is LIGHT YEARS different from writing a bunch of songs for an entire album, especially when one guy is writing the bulk of those songs.

[Eric]

Eclipse did poorly, the band doesn't even play new songs (or very limited if any) on tour, and they have been touring in a three band package deal, all the while, having reports of bad sound, sickness, and dropping attendance numbers. So, I can't really agree that Journey has been spectacular these last couple of years.

2012 was the worst year of the Arnel era, but still more successful than any year PRIOR to '07....since '86. So, you're right...BUT....I think it was TNC who logically mentioned that if they plugged away aimlessly doing "ok" during the Augeri era why would they stop now?

And in terms of awareness and respect from the casual public - it does seem to me that Journey keeps climbing and climbing.

[Jeremey]

2012 was the worst year of the Arnel era, but still more successful than any year since '86.

Those two statements cannot co-exist in the same universe

[Eric]

2012 was the worst year of the Arnel era, but still more successful than any year prior to '07 since '86.

Those two statements cannot co-exist in the same universe

Ooops.

Fixed!

[Yoda]

Eclipse did poorly, the band doesn't even play new songs (or very limited if any) on tour, and they have been touring in a three band package deal, all the while, having reports of bad sound, sickness, and dropping attendance numbers. So, I can't really agree that Journey has been spectacular these last couple of years.

2012 was the worst year of the Arnel era, but still more successful than any year PRIOR to '07....since '86. So, you're right...BUT....I think it was TNC who logically mentioned that if they plugged away aimlessly doing "ok" during the Augeri era why would they stop now?

Quite possibly you need a refresher of what my comments were to TNC on that particular issue:

In terms of commercial success to failure ratio, I definitely agree. That wasn't a "problem" back then, shouldn't be a problem now. What I think WOULD be an indication of the band to let the sun set on them is if they have no intentions of writing new material - and from the indications of Cain's recent interviews, he doesn't sound so thrilled about the current state of songwriting. A good third song writer could possibly change that.

One more thing. Don't discount TBF. First grammy nominated song for Journey ever in '96? That isn't too shabby.

And in terms of awareness and respect from the casual public - it does seem to me that Journey keeps climbing and climbing.

I don't know about awareness, but certainly there seems to be more respect for Journey's catalog of past 80's hits.

[Arkansas]

The revival that Journey needs is to get ahold of all Perry's "sketches". SP says he's got some 50 songs - partials, ideas, melodies, maybe some finished, whatever. If Cain & Schon had these to retool & arrange, then there are at least two new Journey albums just waiting to be done.

Who cares if Perry can ever tour again? It doesn't really matter who's on the road. Just get those three guys in a high tech studio and let the magic be made.


later~

[Yoda]

The revival that Journey needs is to get ahold of all Perry's "sketches". SP says he's got some 50 songs - partials, ideas, melodies, maybe some finished, whatever. If Cain & Schon had these to retool & arrange, then there are at least two new Journey albums just waiting to be done.

Who cares if Perry can ever tour again? It doesn't really matter who's on the road. Just get those three guys in a high tech studio and let the magic be made.


later~

I'd be great with that!

[The_Noble_Cause]

I don't really see where Journey has gotten better and better. Eclipse did poorly, the band doesn't even play new songs (or very limited if any) on tour, and they have been touring in a three band package deal, all the while, having reports of bad sound, sickness, and dropping attendance numbers. So, I can't really agree that Journey has been spectacular these last couple of years.

Change the words "Eclipse" to "Arrival" or "Generations" and this paragraph could apply to any of the past years. Nothing has changed really. The Revelation/DSB/Glee/Sopranos high was never going to last forever.

Most have been able to see that the band's popularity is probably starting to die down a bit.

Compared to what? The brief hysterical Arnel-mania which followed him joining the band? Why is this surprising? The band wasn't going to be featured on Ellen, Oprah, NBC Today Show and CBS Sunday Morning forever. That was a fluke media flashmob and the band exploited it as much as they could. Now they are back in Augeri boondock state fair obscurity. Hardcore fans shouldn't mind this one bit. If anything, it means less teenyboppers at concerts with their Iphones.

The last album was definitely all Schon's baby, so we can't blame that on Cain.

Why would I blame anybody? It was a great album. Hey, if Cain doesn't want to write, Neal should get with Jack Blades. His tracks on Arrival are as good, if not better, than anything the band has ever put out.

[Don]

Eclipse and Arrival are the best Journey albums post Perry IMO. One used multiple outside writers and the other had Schon dominating the process. Big sales are over so it's a matter of personal taste now. The Cain/Schon writing on Revelation was too bland for me. The only song that I can still listen to is NWA. I wouldn't mind another Eclipse type record, just scale back the 3 minute outros and we are good.
They're not going to play the stuff live or if they do, it will be for a very short period of time. It will be for the hard core fans so forget Billboard. I don't want acoustic covers or a live album, just do like Asia and other older bands; write an original album, put it out there and let it sink or swim. Don't write it with the intention of making money from it.

[Gideon]

Anyone else thinking that, as much as Eclipse rocked relative to typical Journey fluff, Neal still pulled his punches?

[Don]

Anyone else thinking that, as much as Eclipse rocked relative to typical Journey fluff, Neal still pulled his punches?

Oh, definitely. When Neal and them were talking about how rocking it was going to be, I thought it would sound like Night Ranger's last album which had great vocals along with a a nice rough party-rock sound, maybe even a Piranha Blues done Journey style.
In reality, Ritual and Human Feel were the only songs that fit that mold on Eclipse. Once Journey decided they were going to make some sort of quasi-religious statement with the record, a straight-up rock album like Neal had initially talked about was never going to happen.

[Gideon]

Yeah, it's too bad. Eclipse is great, but typical Journey: it's wasted potential. But then I'm pretty picky.

City of Hope has become one of my favorites because of that killer intro and nasty rhythm guitar.
Edge of the Moment was awesome because of that neat hook Neal plays at the 25 second mark and forgets about for the remaining 5 minutes.
Chain of Love is great but the chorus has been letting me down; Arnel usually throws everything at the vocals, screaming and belting them, but I find his vocals on the chorus to be too soft and subdued for what the song demands.
Resonate is still my favorite, but the first 50 seconds is pure filler and offers the song nothing. Also, the bass is far too subdued in the mix; it should be front and center a la One More.
The radio edit of Human Feel was excellent; the studio version goes on wayyyyy too long.
Ritual is solid, no real complaints or missed opportunities.
Someone grew on me, but I don't like how Arnel dropped the tone for "you've never been before" in the lyrics.

I love Neal's playing, but excess and deficiency were Aristotelian vices for a reason. I don't listen to a capella music and I don't listen to straight up instrumental; gotta have a balance. The moments Neal can keep my attention for minutes on end just soloing are few and far between; none of 'em are on Eclipse.

[Don]

Resonate and Chain Of Love both suffer from the long intros. With the other songs, it seems Neal is trying to simply turn mid tempo songs into rockers by shoehorning in a lot of noodling.

Ritual is the only song that shoots out of the gate and finishes strong, Everything else is trying to fit some theme in Cain's attempt for the record to be taken seriously. Tantra has no place at all on this album and TWIMC just isn't what Journey is about.
Venus is pure filler. If you really want it to be a reprise, then TWIMC should have been the first track on the album with Venus closing the curtain on what ever story Journey was trying to tell.