MR

Journey is on tour. And there is absolutely no buzz on this forum about anything beyond a set list.
What is the world coming to? Is this the end?

It's broken, that's why. Nobody here really cares to hear DSB, ad nauseum. Maybe people are tired of the same ol slogg going around the same axle over and over again. There isn't really anything new or exciting going on in the camp. They won't play the new music and want to relegate themselves into being a nostalgia act. We're bored!

Agreed...I've been a fan forever...but I honestly couldn't give a **** about them touring anymore with the same lame setlists tour after tour. Simply put...I Just Dont Care.

This is the 2nd year in a row they've decided to side-step PHX for no apparent reason. They're in Alb. NM then Las Vegas but no stop here. Why?! PHX has been very kind to them selling out or nearly selling out the only venue they play here which seats 20,000! And we attend their shows even though the venue they play is outdoor and their show is always in the middle of the summer when all the other acts that come through here this time of year play at one of the indoor, air conditioned venues. So, from my perspective.... Fuck 'em!

steveo777 wrote:It's broken, that's why. Nobody here really cares to hear DSB, ad nauseum. Maybe people are tired of the same ol slogg going around the same axle over and over again. There isn't really anything new or exciting going on in the camp. They won't play the new music and want to relegate themselves into being a nostalgia act. We're bored!

I'm afraid I have to agree with you...it sure seems like this band has zero confidence in their newer material and instead they play obscure b-sides from Escape or Frontiers like Dead Or Alive or Edge of the Blade when they should be highlighting the material featuring Arnel from Revelation and Eclipse! I just don't get it!

The band is dysfunctional....their head writer, Cain, is going around bashing Eclipse in interviews and saying that the market can't bear another new Journey record. This is the attitude of a guy who simply doesn't want to be there.

Still think if they pushed Resonate a little more, without that stupid video, and played in on tour instead of the awful City of Hope, Eclipse would have made some noise.

Make an album, tour behind it. Journey is starting to become a novelty act

Resonate was a missed opportunity, as was Eclipse.
I admit my own enthusiasm has waned considerably for the past few months. I saw them in Evansville this year and was underwhelmed. So was the crowd.

JRNYMAN wrote:This is the 2nd year in a row they've decided to side-step PHX for no apparent reason. They're in Alb. NM then Las Vegas but no stop here. Why?! PHX has been very kind to them selling out or nearly selling out the only venue they play here which seats 20,000! And we attend their shows even though the venue they play is outdoor and their show is always in the middle of the summer when all the other acts that come through here this time of year play at one of the indoor, air conditioned venues. So, from my perspective.... #uck 'em!

Is this truly a band issue, or a local promoter problem?
Interesting...


later~

The_Noble_Cause wrote:The band is dysfunctional....their head writer, Cain, is going around bashing Eclipse in interviews and saying that the market can't bear another new Journey record. This is the attitude of a guy who simply doesn't want to be there.

Yup. He's got to go.

they all look like they dont want to be there except for Deen.
There for the check.

Arkansas wrote:

JRNYMAN wrote:This is the 2nd year in a row they've decided to side-step PHX for no apparent reason. They're in Alb. NM then Las Vegas but no stop here. Why?! PHX has been very kind to them selling out or nearly selling out the only venue they play here which seats 20,000! And we attend their shows even though the venue they play is outdoor and their show is always in the middle of the summer when all the other acts that come through here this time of year play at one of the indoor, air conditioned venues. So, from my perspective.... #uck 'em!

Is this truly a band issue, or a local promoter problem?
Interesting...


later~

Bands only go where the offers are...no logistically feasible offer, no show.

That said, having now see the Arnel line-up, if this is how it ends, I don't care if I ever see them live again. One of my all time favorite bands on the planet reduced to beating a dead horse. I would have preferred they broke up after TBF than where they have ended up.

JRNYMAN wrote:This is the 2nd year in a row they've decided to side-step PHX for no apparent reason. They're in Alb. NM then Las Vegas but no stop here. Why?! PHX has been very kind to them selling out or nearly selling out the only venue they play here which seats 20,000! And we attend their shows even though the venue they play is outdoor and their show is always in the middle of the summer when all the other acts that come through here this time of year play at one of the indoor, air conditioned venues. So, from my perspective.... Fuck 'em!

You must be talking about in recent years because this has not always been the case, for instance the 30 yr(3hr) tour they didn't even come close to selling out(the grass section was completely closed and huge portions of the seated sections were empty)

yulog wrote:

JRNYMAN wrote:This is the 2nd year in a row they've decided to side-step PHX for no apparent reason. They're in Alb. NM then Las Vegas but no stop here. Why?! PHX has been very kind to them selling out or nearly selling out the only venue they play here which seats 20,000! And we attend their shows even though the venue they play is outdoor and their show is always in the middle of the summer when all the other acts that come through here this time of year play at one of the indoor, air conditioned venues. So, from my perspective.... Fuck 'em!

You must be talking about in recent years because this has not always been the case, for instance the 30 yr(3hr) tour they didn't even come close to selling out(the grass section was completely closed and huge portions of the seated sections were empty)

I remember. I was front row, center for that show and I remember turning around several times and seeing a normally packed lawn area, completely vacant. Weird! I'm talking about since the Revelation tour, yes. And it should be noted that although that tour featured Heart and Cheap Trick, the PHX show was the first night of the last leg of the tour sans Heart and it was still a sell out.

As for them not playing here being a promoter issue.... it is only to the extent that Faye & Co., and the other promoters might take a pass on them when there are tons of acts on the road many of which are sure sell outs with a higher net profit but this is PHX in the summer and the venue Journey usually plays is available any date they want this time of year and they can get it cheap!
PHX et al has A LOT of venues of varying sizes. From 500 seat amphitheaters to the historic and famous Gammage Auditorium at ASU that features seating literally almost vertical rising from the stage (that's a weird feeling being so close to the stage yet towering over it) to the monstrous dome that's home to the Cardinals where U2 played and/or Sun Devil Stadium where me and 70,000 of my closest friends saw Sir Paul play some years back, and everything in-between. It's just a slap in the face I guess, and at this point in their dwindling career it's no secret there won't be many more opportunities to see them perform live.

FamilyMan wrote:Journey is on tour. And there is absolutely no buzz on this forum about anything beyond a set list.
What is the world coming to? Is this the end?

I can't speak for anyone else here, but my "Journey" is over. I haven't been posting in here at all because I'm not trying to take anything away from fans that like the current line-up. I saw my first Journey concert with S.A. and loved it. Saw them 6 times and could tell he was EXTREMELY strained the last couple of times I saw him. Still enjoyed the shows and loved Arrival (and a couple of songs off of Generations).

They then brought Jeff in who I was a fan of from Soul Sirkus and Talisman. I thought from day one that I liked him, but just not for Journey. Then they choose Arnel after ditching Jeff. I've seen them 2 or 3 times with him and while he's a nice guy and giving it his all... this is not the Journey I grew up with. I didn't care for the last 2 albums with the exception of "What I Needed". It hasn't gotten any better over time...

I used to be a ridiculous fan. I have every album that Journey has ever released (and some they didn't) in my studio. I have 2 Journey posters in here as well. I have the "Times 3" Box set and studied the book! Lol!!!

I don't know if it's Arnel's stage presence, or just his annunciation of the words. I can NOT get into the Arnel fronted band. Add to that my distaste for the way they conducted themselves with Augeri and Jeff. They did both of them wrong, and I think that's what did it for me. I could overlook all of that if they still sounded like the Journey I love, but they don't.

At this point, I'm done. Unless they find a new singer, or just have Deen cover lead vocals... THAT I could get behind! But hey... If you guys are enjoying the band... enjoy! I tip my hat to them for keeping it going and doing what they love. I just wish they were doing it with someone I thought sounded like "Journey"!

a deen fronted vocals would be great!

G.I.Jim wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:Journey is on tour. And there is absolutely no buzz on this forum about anything beyond a set list.
What is the world coming to? Is this the end?

I can't speak for anyone else here, but my "Journey" is over. I haven't been posting in here at all because I'm not trying to take anything away from fans that like the current line-up. I saw my first Journey concert with S.A. and loved it. Saw them 6 times and could tell he was EXTREMELY strained the last couple of times I saw him. Still enjoyed the shows and loved Arrival (and a couple of songs off of Generations).

They then brought Jeff in who I was a fan of from Soul Sirkus and Talisman. I thought from day one that I liked him, but just not for Journey. Then they choose Arnel after ditching Jeff. I've seen them 2 or 3 times with him and while he's a nice guy and giving it his all... this is not the Journey I grew up with. I didn't care for the last 2 albums with the exception of "What I Needed". It hasn't gotten any better over time...

I used to be a ridiculous fan. I have every album that Journey has ever released (and some they didn't) in my studio. I have 2 Journey posters in here as well. I have the "Times 3" Box set and studied the book! Lol!!!

I don't know if it's Arnel's stage presence, or just his annunciation of the words. I can NOT get into the Arnel fronted band. Add to that my distaste for the way they conducted themselves with Augeri and Jeff. They did both of them wrong, and I think that's what did it for me. I could overlook all of that if they still sounded like the Journey I love, but they don't.

At this point, I'm done. Unless they find a new singer, or just have Deen cover lead vocals... THAT I could get behind! But hey... If you guys are enjoying the band... enjoy! I tip my hat to them for keeping it going and doing what they love. I just wish they were doing it with someone I thought sounded like "Journey"!

From your lips to God's ears, my brother. I echo every word of this post, although, I did like the better portion of Revelation.
If only Deen was able to conquer his deep fear of stepping from behind his kit and take center stage, I sincerely feel they could do one last tour and do the Journey name justice with a credible farewell tour. I've NEVER read a single post, YT comment, etc., that said anything negative about Deen's abilities on vox. What he lacks in his ability to precisely mimic Perry, he more than makes up for with his sweet, soft, tenor voice and the passion with which he delivers the vocals. It's too bad the decision was made last tour that Deen would be doing very limited vocals because I for one looked forward to the songs he sang which, unfortunately, aren't included when he doesn't sing and that just sucks and it does the fans an injustice.

Just for the sake of it, here's one of Deen's absolute best vocal performances and when he holds up the pic of his son and kisses it.... man, you just can't get a more tender and heartfelt delivery of this song.
Faithfully featuring Deen on vox:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s55Py6a5YQs

JRNYMAN wrote:

G.I.Jim wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:Journey is on tour. And there is absolutely no buzz on this forum about anything beyond a set list.
What is the world coming to? Is this the end?

I can't speak for anyone else here, but my "Journey" is over. I haven't been posting in here at all because I'm not trying to take anything away from fans that like the current line-up. I saw my first Journey concert with S.A. and loved it. Saw them 6 times and could tell he was EXTREMELY strained the last couple of times I saw him. Still enjoyed the shows and loved Arrival (and a couple of songs off of Generations).

They then brought Jeff in who I was a fan of from Soul Sirkus and Talisman. I thought from day one that I liked him, but just not for Journey. Then they choose Arnel after ditching Jeff. I've seen them 2 or 3 times with him and while he's a nice guy and giving it his all... this is not the Journey I grew up with. I didn't care for the last 2 albums with the exception of "What I Needed". It hasn't gotten any better over time...

I used to be a ridiculous fan. I have every album that Journey has ever released (and some they didn't) in my studio. I have 2 Journey posters in here as well. I have the "Times 3" Box set and studied the book! Lol!!!

I don't know if it's Arnel's stage presence, or just his annunciation of the words. I can NOT get into the Arnel fronted band. Add to that my distaste for the way they conducted themselves with Augeri and Jeff. They did both of them wrong, and I think that's what did it for me. I could overlook all of that if they still sounded like the Journey I love, but they don't.

At this point, I'm done. Unless they find a new singer, or just have Deen cover lead vocals... THAT I could get behind! But hey... If you guys are enjoying the band... enjoy! I tip my hat to them for keeping it going and doing what they love. I just wish they were doing it with someone I thought sounded like "Journey"!

From your lips to God's ears, my brother. I echo every word of this post, although, I did like the better portion of Revelation.
If only Deen was able to conquer his deep fear of stepping from behind his kit and take center stage, I sincerely feel they could do one last tour and do the Journey name justice with a credible farewell tour. I've NEVER read a single post, YT comment, etc., that said anything negative about Deen's abilities on vox. What he lacks in his ability to precisely mimic Perry, he more than makes up for with his sweet, soft, tenor voice and the passion with which he delivers the vocals. It's too bad the decision was made last tour that Deen would be doing very limited vocals because I for one looked forward to the songs he sang which, unfortunately, aren't included when he doesn't sing and that just sucks and it does the fans an injustice.

Just for the sake of it, here's one of Deen's absolute best vocal performances and when he holds up the pic of his son and kisses it.... man, you just can't get a more tender and heartfelt delivery of this song.
Faithfully featuring Deen on vox:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s55Py6a5YQs

Deen is not a frontman. Won't happen.
I never felt Jon was a fan of the "concept album" Eclipse. He wanted the "legacy sound." I think that's why the band is where they are. You have Neal testing the waters with his solo album and HSAS - projects where he's allowed his freedom to jam/wail. And you have Jon retreating to the commercialization of Nashville/Country. These are competing agendas - which I fear may relegate the band into paralysis. If you're all not out there buying your obligatory summer tour tix, it's over Johnny.

They're appealing to the masses - the vast majority of fans who love Greatest Hits but ignored Greatest Hits 2 because Don't Stop Believin' was nowhere to be found on it. The band could play great classics like Line of Fire or Still They Ride right now, and there would be a mass exodus to the beer stand since those songs haven't been heard on the radio in years. As a fan of virtually all of the band's material, I can't get into hearing the same songs over and over every tour. It was nice to see Rubicon on one of the European setlists - but I'm not paying $70 and up for the chance they might play it in their one and a half hour set, and I am certainly not traveling to see a show when they have decided to bypass Phoenix again.

There's been speculation on a Santana/Journey tour, with Gregg Rolie sitting in with both bands - I would JUMP at the chance to see that, and I am not even a Santana fan! I also would love seeing another 2005-type tour, with the band playing songs from every era. This was far and away my favorite Journey tour.

livin2do wrote:They're appealing to the masses - the vast majority of fans who love Greatest Hits but ignored Greatest Hits 2 because Don't Stop Believin' was nowhere to be found on it. The band could play great classics like Line of Fire or Still They Ride right now, and there would be a mass exodus to the beer stand since those songs haven't been heard on the radio in years. As a fan of virtually all of the band's material, I can't get into hearing the same songs over and over every tour. It was nice to see Rubicon on one of the European setlists - but I'm not paying $70 and up for the chance they might play it in their one and a half hour set, and I am certainly not traveling to see a show when they have decided to bypass Phoenix again.

There's been speculation on a Santana/Journey tour, with Gregg Rolie sitting in with both bands - I would JUMP at the chance to see that, and I am not even a Santana fan! I also would love seeing another 2005-type tour, with the band playing songs from every era. This was far and away my favorite Journey tour.

Aren't you Les, Neal's step dad? If you are, it's good to see you calling it as it is, not being a jaded cheerleader. There is no denying the talent on board, but it's so sad to see them slipping into obscurity simply because they won't take any chances. What is there to lose at this point? They have accomplished all kinds of success. If they would just go out and play a mix of ALL their music, it might surprise them in a season how well they might do. Cloaking everything is not the answer. And I know this is so cliche', but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

steveo777 wrote:

livin2do wrote:They're appealing to the masses - the vast majority of fans who love Greatest Hits but ignored Greatest Hits 2 because Don't Stop Believin' was nowhere to be found on it. The band could play great classics like Line of Fire or Still They Ride right now, and there would be a mass exodus to the beer stand since those songs haven't been heard on the radio in years. As a fan of virtually all of the band's material, I can't get into hearing the same songs over and over every tour. It was nice to see Rubicon on one of the European setlists - but I'm not paying $70 and up for the chance they might play it in their one and a half hour set, and I am certainly not traveling to see a show when they have decided to bypass Phoenix again.

There's been speculation on a Santana/Journey tour, with Gregg Rolie sitting in with both bands - I would JUMP at the chance to see that, and I am not even a Santana fan! I also would love seeing another 2005-type tour, with the band playing songs from every era. This was far and away my favorite Journey tour.

Aren't you Les, Neal's step dad? If you are, it's good to see you calling it as it is, not being a jaded cheerleader. There is no denying the talent on board, but it's so sad to see them slipping into obscurity simply because they won't take any chances. What is there to lose at this point? They have accomplished all kinds of success. If they would just go out and play a mix of ALL their music, it might surprise them in a season how well they might do. Cloaking everything is not the answer. And I know this is so cliche', but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

I am fairly certain livin2do is not Neal's stepdad.

Les2 is Neal's stepdad. I've been corrected.

scarab wrote:a deen fronted vocals would be great!

Not if he's singing nothing more than the same setlist I heard them play in 1983.

steveo777 wrote:

livin2do wrote:They're appealing to the masses - the vast majority of fans who love Greatest Hits but ignored Greatest Hits 2 because Don't Stop Believin' was nowhere to be found on it. The band could play great classics like Line of Fire or Still They Ride right now, and there would be a mass exodus to the beer stand since those songs haven't been heard on the radio in years. As a fan of virtually all of the band's material, I can't get into hearing the same songs over and over every tour. It was nice to see Rubicon on one of the European setlists - but I'm not paying $70 and up for the chance they might play it in their one and a half hour set, and I am certainly not traveling to see a show when they have decided to bypass Phoenix again.

There's been speculation on a Santana/Journey tour, with Gregg Rolie sitting in with both bands - I would JUMP at the chance to see that, and I am not even a Santana fan! I also would love seeing another 2005-type tour, with the band playing songs from every era. This was far and away my favorite Journey tour.

Aren't you Les, Neal's step dad? If you are, it's good to see you calling it as it is, not being a jaded cheerleader. There is no denying the talent on board, but it's so sad to see them slipping into obscurity simply because they won't take any chances. What is there to lose at this point? They have accomplished all kinds of success. If they would just go out and play a mix of ALL their music, it might surprise them in a season how well they might do. Cloaking everything is not the answer. And I know this is so cliche', but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

No, that's Les2, I think. Livin2do is the person who did the first Herbie Herbert interview called Castles Burning.

Rick wrote:

steveo777 wrote:

livin2do wrote:They're appealing to the masses - the vast majority of fans who love Greatest Hits but ignored Greatest Hits 2 because Don't Stop Believin' was nowhere to be found on it. The band could play great classics like Line of Fire or Still They Ride right now, and there would be a mass exodus to the beer stand since those songs haven't been heard on the radio in years. As a fan of virtually all of the band's material, I can't get into hearing the same songs over and over every tour. It was nice to see Rubicon on one of the European setlists - but I'm not paying $70 and up for the chance they might play it in their one and a half hour set, and I am certainly not traveling to see a show when they have decided to bypass Phoenix again.

There's been speculation on a Santana/Journey tour, with Gregg Rolie sitting in with both bands - I would JUMP at the chance to see that, and I am not even a Santana fan! I also would love seeing another 2005-type tour, with the band playing songs from every era. This was far and away my favorite Journey tour.

Aren't you Les, Neal's step dad? If you are, it's good to see you calling it as it is, not being a jaded cheerleader. There is no denying the talent on board, but it's so sad to see them slipping into obscurity simply because they won't take any chances. What is there to lose at this point? They have accomplished all kinds of success. If they would just go out and play a mix of ALL their music, it might surprise them in a season how well they might do. Cloaking everything is not the answer. And I know this is so cliche', but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

No, that's Les2, I think. Livin2do is the person who did the first Herbie Herbert interview called Castles Burning.

Matthew Carty

All great posts. I, too, rarely check this board anymore. Journey is still one of my two favorite bands, but my other fav seems to be the band that still gets it, that continues to grow, experiment, write and tour with new material: Rush. Granted, they have a very different, loyal fan base, which loves the new material and truly supports it. As others have noted, Journey has attempted to do so, but their "fans," for the most part, are not as accepting of new material in concert. And they certainly haven't supported the music as much as the band (or we) hoped -- unless it was packaged with remakes of the Dirty Dozen.

I can appreciate their frustration with the poor sales figures of their latest, and the number of people who sit or leave their seats during the performance of new material. But, as an artist, why continue to rest on your laurels? Either commit to producing another classic Journey album or get off the pot. I agree that Cain seems to have very little interest in the band at this juncture, while others want to make as much money as possible prior to the ship sailing. Such will not help Journey sell tickets, CDs, or maintain -- let alone grow -- their fanbase. I would rather see them go off and do other projects -- truly take a break from Journey -- and then revisit the band after a time to see if the flame is still there. I didn't like what happened prior to TBF, but take a listen to that album. No, there were not the heavier, faster-paced songs we were hoping for, but the musicianship had clearly gone to another level. It was a very mature album that still produced some long-lasting hits. Yes, it also had Perry, but there was so much more to it.

So I sit here this morning and post for the first time in ages. Not to write about the amazing Journey show I recently saw (I haven't seen one in two years b/c of the same feelings many here share), but instead to suggest that a change is truly necessary. Whether in personnel, a break from the band, or at a minimum a change in attitude, something must be done. I hate seeing the band flame out like this. I want to be excited as I still am to play Rush's latest "Clockwork Angels" CD and to see their latest tour. But does Journey care enough about Journey to make that possible?...

Lerxst101 wrote: But does Journey care enough about Journey to make that possible?...

THAT is THE question!

Lerxst101 wrote: but my other fav seems to be the band that still gets it, that continues to grow, experiment, write and tour with new material: Rush.

With a user name like yours... Gee what a surprise...

Lerxst101 wrote:Granted, they have a very different, loyal fan base, which loves the new material and truly supports it. As others have noted, Journey has attempted to do so, but their "fans," for the most part, are not as accepting of new material in concert. And they certainly haven't supported the music as much as the band (or we) hoped -- unless it was packaged with remakes of the Dirty Dozen.

I can appreciate their frustration with the poor sales figures of their latest, and the number of people who sit or leave their seats during the performance of new material. But, as an artist, why continue to rest on your laurels? Either commit to producing another classic Journey album or get off the pot. I agree that Cain seems to have very little interest in the band at this juncture, while others want to make as much money as possible prior to the ship sailing. Such will not help Journey sell tickets, CDs, or maintain -- let alone grow -- their fanbase. I would rather see them go off and do other projects -- truly take a break from Journey -- and then revisit the band after a time to see if the flame is still there. I didn't like what happened prior to TBF, but take a listen to that album. No, there were not the heavier, faster-paced songs we were hoping for, but the musicianship had clearly gone to another level. It was a very mature album that still produced some long-lasting hits. Yes, it also had Perry, but there was so much more to it.

So I sit here this morning and post for the first time in ages. Not to write about the amazing Journey show I recently saw (I haven't seen one in two years b/c of the same feelings many here share), but instead to suggest that a change is truly necessary. Whether in personnel, a break from the band, or at a minimum a change in attitude, something must be done. I hate seeing the band flame out like this. I want to be excited as I still am to play Rush's latest "Clockwork Angels" CD and to see their latest tour. But does Journey care enough about Journey to make that possible?...

Excellent points and well thought out. And as was stated above, that truly is THE question.

FamilyMan wrote:I never felt Jon was a fan of the "concept album" Eclipse. He wanted the "legacy sound."

This is probably correct. However, in interviews, Jon said he was the one who came up with the concept for Eclipse. Claiming he got the idea after reading New Age books by Wayne Dyer, specifically "The Power of Intention." As a Journey fan, I think there is alot to enjoy on Eclipse, but they def. half-assed the concept album idea. There is no real story being told here.

I've been pondering the nature of Jon and Neal's personal and professional relationship for some time.
Seems like Neal, who is all smiles and swagger on stage, ignores Cain despite Cain's attempts to work the stage and jam with him. I remember when Neal was on Facebook prior to the Salahi scandal and he posted pictures of a sweet guitar Jon got for him for his birthday.

Anyway, I wonder why Jon, who's probably a multi- multi- millionaire is even bothering if he's so bored.