MR

Droolin.... http://prorecordingworkshop.lefora.com/ ... onstructi/

All well & good. Love it. But, what's gonna make it special?

Looks like standard construction...concrete blocks, #2 spruce for framing, & maybe some yellow pine for headers & joists. Are they building a house, or a 'magic music' studio? I mean, I'm sure JC has his console from his NorCal home of 30 Journey yrs, and I'd bet that The Whale is still alive. But what's gonna make this new studio special? What will attract talent? JC & the Journey name, or some advertised low-ball price for studio time? I really hope that the Nashville thing is very successful, yet at the same time, I do wonder what will set him apart from all the other hundred recording studios in Davidson County.

Recently saw a documentary from Dave Grohl (Nirvana/Foo Fighters) about 'Sound City' in Van Nuys, Ca. It was pretty darned cool...all about the Neve console & how the main room just happened to be perfect for drums. Everyone, even remotely interested in the music business, should watch this...several times over.


later~

Apparently you didn't read any of the link...

Its not standard construction at all.. the whole place was designed from the get go for recording... they TORE DOWN an existing structure to build a BUILDING.. then the studio inside.. from scratch.... floating floors and walls.. tuned rooms..

its a million dollar build easy...

The studio wasn't even finished in the fall... and they'd already had January and February fully booked.. so somebody likes it..

Yeah, I'll have to go pick thru all the details of that other thread some time. Thanks.
Btw, I think JC is in the Sound City doc. There's a still shot of someone resembling him in what looks like a Journey tshirt. Don't remember exactly where in the doc, and it's less than half a second. Did Journey ever do any work there?


later~

Big whup....

I have a laptop and can record IN MY BATHROOM!!!!

Hopefully, the net result will be a forthcoming Journey album that finally has a decent mix.

FamilyMan wrote:Hopefully, the net result will be a forthcoming Journey album that finally has a decent mix.

"Arrival" was muddy. I think Rev and Eclipse turned out pretty good.

Arkansas wrote:Yeah, I'll have to go pick thru all the details of that other thread some time. Thanks.
later~

Good idea.. then you won't look like a moron making useless comments. You're welcome.

Arkansas wrote:Btw, I think JC is in the Sound City doc. There's a still shot of someone resembling him in what looks like a Journey tshirt. Don't remember exactly where in the doc, and it's less than half a second. Did Journey ever do any work there?

later~

none of the Journey album credits have Sound City as a location... that doesn't rule out any of the guys having done work there..

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:Hopefully, the net result will be a forthcoming Journey album that finally has a decent mix.

"Arrival" was muddy. I think Rev and Eclipse turned out pretty good.

All three sound muddy. As do the live DVD's.

As documented here on MR.com, Neal gave Eclipse to someone else (besides Shirley) to do the final mixing. Sounds good to me.
Never quite understood why Shirley was picked for TBF, but he's done mostly well by the band.

[quote="The_Noble_Cause"]As documented here on MR.com, Neal gave Eclipse to someone else (besides Shirley) to do the final mixing. Sounds good to me.
Never quite understood why Shirley was picked for TBF, but he's done mostly well by the band.[/quote]


Neal did not give Eclipse to anyone. Shirley and him weren't seeing eye to eye on the whole project and Neal decided after recording that he did not want Kevin to mix it. More to diffuse the situation. Both have remained friends. It was given to a very close friend of Jonathan's to complete. ironically, the same friend, David Kalmusky, that this studio is co-owned with Jonathan.

I think people underestimate Jon. They have his whole career.

Outside of the Red 13 I think all of the records and DVDs have sounded great.

Hollywood wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:As documented here on MR.com, Neal gave Eclipse to someone else (besides Shirley) to do the final mixing. Sounds good to me.
Never quite understood why Shirley was picked for TBF, but he's done mostly well by the band.

Neal did not give Eclipse to anyone. Shirley and him weren't seeing eye to eye on the whole project and Neal decided after recording that he did not want Kevin to mix it. More to diffuse the situation. Both have remained friends. It was given to a very close friend of Jonathan's to complete. ironically, the same friend, David Kalmusky, that this studio is co-owned with Jonathan.

I think people underestimate Jon. They have his whole career.

Outside of the Red 13 I think all of the records and DVDs have sounded great.

Glad I'm not one of them. While some think he looks bored, I think he's just really intense about his work and strives to make things come out right, in concert. A guy his age doesn't just go build an expensive new studio without still having some passion for his art and a desire to benefit other artists as well.

Jon's studio isn't for Journey... its for Jon's songwriting career in Nashville.. he's already state a desire to get into the Nashville Songwriters HOF... so having a studio in Nashville is a great "calling card"... and a great way to get existing and new artists (like his daughter) in Nashville in working and writing sessions..

His ballad-writing chops are a natural fit for Nashville's modern country artists.

slucero wrote:Jon's studio isn't for Journey... its for Jon's songwriting career in Nashville.. he's already state a desire to get into the Nashville Songwriters HOF... so having a studio in Nashville is a great "calling card"... and a great way to get existing and new artists (like his daughter) in Nashville in working and writing sessions..

His ballad-writing chops are a natural fit for Nashville's modern country artists.

Exactly ; he ain't stupid. I think he sees what to do next, after Journey. I believe he'll be successful.

steveo777 wrote:

slucero wrote:Jon's studio isn't for Journey... its for Jon's songwriting career in Nashville.. he's already state a desire to get into the Nashville Songwriters HOF... so having a studio in Nashville is a great "calling card"... and a great way to get existing and new artists (like his daughter) in Nashville in working and writing sessions..

His ballad-writing chops are a natural fit for Nashville's modern country artists.

Exactly ; he ain't stupid. I think he sees what to do next, after Journey. I believe he'll be successful.

Thats the difference between Neal and Jon..

Jon is a songwriter 1st... the touring and stuff is for him just a necessary consequence...the studio is where he's most happy..

Neal is a player 1st.. he needs live performance to fullfil him.. the songwriting & recording process is just a means to get to the stage..

FamilyMan wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:Hopefully, the net result will be a forthcoming Journey album that finally has a decent mix.

"Arrival" was muddy. I think Rev and Eclipse turned out pretty good.

All three sound muddy. As do the live DVD's.

Ditto. shame too, Rev has some very good tunes, If you go from WCN to anything from Rev
its terrible on a good system, havent listened to all of Eclipse yet......

Hollywood wrote:Neal did not give Eclipse to anyone. Shirley and him weren't seeing eye to eye on the whole project and Neal decided after recording that he did not want Kevin to mix it.

You make it sound more diplomatic than it actually was. Shirley was supposed to finish the project, and Neal didn't want to wait for him. After the recording fiasco of Eclipse (in which Arnel offered to quit, Neal vetoed Jon's ballads, and Shirley and Schon kept butting creative heads) Shirley vowed NEVER to work with the band again and said of Neal, "What an asshole." You may think it was a civil disagreement. Not my understanding. Of course, time heals all.

As Producer... Shirley wanted the band to shorten the songs, leads.. go in a more traditional Journey direction.. that's his job.

Schon vetoed all of that..

At some point I'm sure Shirley thought...... "fuck this.. it's not gonna sell anyways.. let somebody else mix it so I can get to work on something else that might make me some money"

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Hollywood wrote:Neal did not give Eclipse to anyone. Shirley and him weren't seeing eye to eye on the whole project and Neal decided after recording that he did not want Kevin to mix it.

You make it sound more diplomatic than it actually was. Shirley was supposed to finish the project, and Neal didn't want to wait for him. After the recording fiasco of Eclipse (in which Arnel offered to quit, Neal vetoed Jon's ballads, and Shirley and Schon kept butting creative heads) Shirley vowed NEVER to work with the band again and said of Neal, "What an asshole." You may think it was a civil disagreement. Not my understanding. Of course, time heals all.

I recall the matters of butting creative heads, Shirley wanting a more formulaic album, but I don't remember Arnel offering to quit. I remember him having to go back and work on his diction to record the new songs. I don't remember Shirley vowing to never work with them again either. I'm not saying that it's not credible, just trying to think back when/where this stuff was said.

PianoMan1986 wrote:...but I don't remember Arnel offering to quit. I remember him having to go back and work on his diction to record the new songs. I don't remember Shirley vowing to never work with them again either. I'm not saying that it's not credible, just trying to think back when/where this stuff was said.

You didn't hear of it, because it wasn't publicly reported and it wasn't told to you. Just like the lipping shenanigans. Isn't that obvious. Oy.

slucero wrote:As Producer... Shirley wanted the band to shorten the songs, leads.. go in a more traditional Journey direction.. that's his job.

Schon vetoed all of that..

That is NOT a producer's job. On Revelation, they wanted to recapture the "legacy sound", but that doesn't mean Shirley is supposed to duplicate that on every album. If that was the case, the band never would have evolved from the Infinity-era to Escape/Frontiers. Huge sonic leap forward. Maybe Eclipse pushed the envelope too far.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

PianoMan1986 wrote:...but I don't remember Arnel offering to quit. I remember him having to go back and work on his diction to record the new songs. I don't remember Shirley vowing to never work with them again either. I'm not saying that it's not credible, just trying to think back when/where this stuff was said.

You didn't hear of it, because it wasn't publicly reported and it wasn't told to you. Just like the lipping shenanigans. Isn't that obvious. Oy.

Obviously you knew and were aware since it wasn't publicly reported -- my implications were simply asking how you knew.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

slucero wrote:As Producer... Shirley wanted the band to shorten the songs, leads.. go in a more traditional Journey direction.. that's his job.

Schon vetoed all of that..

That is NOT a producer's job. On Revelation, they wanted to recapture the "legacy sound", but that doesn't mean Shirley is supposed to duplicate that on every album. If that was the case, the band never would have evolved from the Infinity-era to Escape/Frontiers. Huge sonic leap forward. Maybe Eclipse pushed the envelope too far.

Having been in a few studio sessions in my precious life as a musician.. I can speak to this..

Originally and traditionally the producers "job" was to:

• Keep the project in budget
• advise the band on the best course for their project in order to maximize it's commercial viability.

Mixing was traditionally done with the producer sitting next to the engineer, telling the engineer(s) to "make the snare brighter".... or "add some flab to the kick".. because traditionally the engineers' job was also just to engineer.. that meant capturing all performances as true to their source sound as possible, and twisting knobs to get the "sound" the producer wants.

Nowadays, most producers are former engineers, although it's still normal for sessions with artists like journey to have one (or more) engineers working in the traditional sense, while the producer is actually running the console during the sessions, and later doing the editing/comping on the Pro Tools rig, including mixing.

Shirley advising Journey to shorten songs and leads, because he feels it would make them more marketable has nothing to do with the sonically duplicating an album from another era... because that would be kinda impossible...

It's about the song arrangement. and Shirley doing this is completely in line with what a producers "job" is, and has always been.

slucero wrote:Shirley advising Journey to shorten songs and leads, because he feels it would make them more marketable has nothing to do with the sonically duplicating an album from another era... because that would be kinda impossible...

It's about the song arrangement. and Shirley doing this is completely in line with what a producers "job" is, and has always been.

To me "go in a more traditional Journey direction" (your quote) sounds alot like Revelation part 2 all over again. Even with shorter leads, something like "Edge of the Moment" would not be your cookie cutter Journey tune.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

slucero wrote:Shirley advising Journey to shorten songs and leads, because he feels it would make them more marketable has nothing to do with the sonically duplicating an album from another era... because that would be kinda impossible...

It's about the song arrangement. and Shirley doing this is completely in line with what a producers "job" is, and has always been.

To me "go in a more traditional Journey direction" (your quote) sounds alot like Revelation part 2 all over again. Even with shorter leads, something like "Edge of the Moment" would not be your cookie cutter Journey tune.

Like I posted.. when I said Shirley was talking about "a more traditional Journey direction" (my quote).. it's in reference to the song arrangements... not duplicating the sonic quality of a previous album.. mainly because its pretty much impossible to do, and more importantly because it would be plain fucking stupid... the whole point of a new album is a "clean slate"... you try different things sonically... different guitar setups, mic placements... the list is literally endless.. BUT.. you run real risk when you deviate too far from what people "know" arrangement-wise... and most artists make that fatal mistake in their songwriting..

While Eclipse is sonically a very well recorded album (I even said that when I reviewed it here).. the arrangements deviated too far from what one would call "traditional Journey"... and that was Shirley's job as producer to point out.

Journey (Schon) made the choice to not listen.

Hard core fans may overlook that to some degree, likely because they have a better understanding of the bands musical history.. i.e.... so they may be more open to and understand the reasons for it. The lay journey fan was always, only interested in the more accessible, traditional sounding arrangements. Eclipse arrangements failed in this regard and that IMHO is the core reason it would have never had a chance in hell of appealing to the lay Journey fan.

Shirley knew this, and subsequent comments by Schon and Cain validate it.

slucero wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

slucero wrote:Shirley advising Journey to shorten songs and leads, because he feels it would make them more marketable has nothing to do with the sonically duplicating an album from another era... because that would be kinda impossible...

It's about the song arrangement. and Shirley doing this is completely in line with what a producers "job" is, and has always been.

To me "go in a more traditional Journey direction" (your quote) sounds alot like Revelation part 2 all over again. Even with shorter leads, something like "Edge of the Moment" would not be your cookie cutter Journey tune.

Like I posted.. when I said Shirley was talking about "a more traditional Journey direction" (my quote).. it's in reference to the song arrangements... not duplicating the sonic quality of a previous album.. mainly because its pretty much impossible to do, and more importantly because it would be plain fucking stupid... the whole point of a new album is a "clean slate"... you try different things sonically... different guitar setups, mic placements... the list is literally endless.. BUT.. you run real risk when you deviate too far from what people "know" arrangement-wise... and most artists make that fatal mistake in their songwriting..

While Eclipse is sonically a very well recorded album (I even said that when I reviewed it here).. the arrangements deviated too far from what one would call "traditional Journey"... and that was Shirley's job as producer to point out.

Journey (Schon) made the choice to not listen.

Hard core fans may overlook that to some degree, likely because they have a better understanding of the bands musical history.. i.e.... so they may be more open to and understand the reasons for it. The lay journey fan was always, only interested in the more accessible, traditional sounding arrangements. Eclipse arrangements failed in this regard and that IMHO is the core reason it would have never had a chance in hell of appealing to the lay Journey fan.

Shirley knew this, and subsequent comments by Schon and Cain validate it.

Well said. I guess I misunderstood what you meant by "traditional" , especially coming on the heels of Cain's "legacy sound" comments. I would just say that traditional song arrangements did no favors for Arrival or Generations in the sales department, so at this point, they have nothing to lose.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Well said. I guess I misunderstood what you meant by "traditional" , especially coming on the heels of Cain's "legacy sound" comments. I would just say that traditional song arrangements did no favors for Arrival or Generations in the sales department, so at this point, they have nothing to lose.

Correct.. but we have to remind ourselves that "sales" these days are not the same as "sales" in the 70's or the 80's... It's simply no longer an album market, or culture anymore.. and sales success is no longer measured in the multiple millions..

The traditional distribution mechanism (radio --->record stores) no longer exists, because a new paradigm (social media--->digital distribution) has replaced it.

Now it's: Youtube/Twitter/Facebook/Pandora---------->Itunes/Spotify/etc

None of their releases have ever taken advantage of the new distribution paradigm.. and until that happens in earnest.. it really doesn't matter how traditional sounding their new material is, because no potential audience (diehard, lay, or new) will ever hear it.

Journey has yet to realize this.