MR

Simply put, I have been trying to figure out whether or not Billy Joel in fact uses backing tracks for songs like River Of Dreams, Uptown Girl, etc in current shows. Given Journey's infamous history/the expertise of people on this board, I figured I would post about this on here.

It seems possible for BJ, especially since I have seen videos with Liberty Devitto wearing big headphones, as far back as 1994. But, while nothing like this should surprise me anymore, I am still kinda shocked to think an old-school legend like Billy Joel would engage in such practices. (It's one thing for Journey, Def Lep...even Aerosmith.)

Been around Billy Joel productions a lot, both as a stagehand and journalist. I know his prompter operator and his stage manager. Never saw or heard anything that resembled prerecorded anything, other than the helicopters used for "Goodnight Saigon."

Now that's probably the most valid information that I have received in a long time.

Specifically I was wondering about River Of Dreams. If you look at the videos from the 1994 tour, you can see headphone appear on Liberty Devitto's head for that song. I know that in those "pre-in-ear monitor days", headphones were often used when the drummer needed to hear a click track, vocals, etc.

Can you perhaps shed some light upon this (at least somewhat). That is what really got me wondering about much of this.

RumTumJM wrote:Now that's probably the most valid information that I have received in a long time.

Specifically I was wondering about River Of Dreams. If you look at the videos from the 1994 tour, you can see headphone appear on Liberty Devitto's head for that song. I know that in those "pre-in-ear monitor days", headphones were often used when the drummer needed to hear a click track, vocals, etc.

Can you perhaps shed some light upon this (at least somewhat). That is what really got me wondering about much of this.

Liberty has Tinnitus - a form of hearing loss many musicians from his era suffer from. I suspect he wears the headphones to protect his ears from further damage.
http://www.ata.org/sites/ata.org/files/ ... une_07.pdf

Perhaps that's it.

It was just weird seeing him wear the headphone JUST for that song. But, I also know that Liberty relies HEAVILY on vocals when he drums. Maybe there was something about that song, that made it difficult for him to hear the elements/vocals that he wanted to hear.

RumTumJM wrote:Perhaps that's it.

It was just weird seeing him wear the headphone JUST for that song. But, I also know that Liberty relies HEAVILY on vocals when he drums. Maybe there was something about that song, that made it difficult for him to hear the elements/vocals that he wanted to hear.

Very heavy percussion-driven song; especially at the top. Crystal Taliefero, his percussionist, plays everything from bongos to congas on that song. Maybe he liked to hear her high in the mix to keep the beat.

On a side note, Billy Joel shows just aren't the same anymore without Liberty. He was a force and is sorely missed.

Yes, that definitely seems "enhanced" to me...but that could always be post-production work.

RumTumJM wrote:Yes, that definitely seems "enhanced" to me...but that could always be post-production work.

Troublemaker....

Now I have a few big questions, about the usage of backing tracks, etc.

1st of all, isn't a click track or some kind of metronome system ESSENTIAL to properly using a backing tracks? Similarly, doesn't a backing track REQUIRE the band to play the song the same EXACT way, time after time, to ensure that the backing tracks sync up just right?

Why do I ask? Check out this video (I have it set to begin at a particular part.) http://youtu.be/dnjmuPcbrqw?t=3m

At this particular part of the song, Billy stops the song totally. Having seen him multiple times/seen many YouTube videos, I know he does not do the same thing at this point, each and every time. In other words, the "pause in the song" differs from night to night.

IF they were using a backing track, would he be able to do this? Wouldn't he need to follow the same routine time after time? Or, is there a possibility that the click track/backing track would be paused, and somehow, they always seem to start it up again...EXACTLY RIGHT?


.......Oh, and is it just my eyes, or does Billy NOT EVEN have monitors in his ears?

I would suspect that the backing track is triggered by a pedal, much like how Def Leppard does it, and thus, separate from the click.

RumTumJM wrote:Now I have a few big questions, about the usage of backing tracks, etc.

1st of all, isn't a click track or some kind of metronome system ESSENTIAL to properly using a backing tracks? Similarly, doesn't a backing track REQUIRE the band to play the song the same EXACT way, time after time, to ensure that the backing tracks sync up just right?

Why do I ask? Check out this video (I have it set to begin at a particular part.) http://youtu.be/dnjmuPcbrqw?t=3m

At this particular part of the song, Billy stops the song totally. Having seen him multiple times/seen many YouTube videos, I know he does not do the same thing at this point, each and every time. In other words, the "pause in the song" differs from night to night.

IF they were using a backing track, would he be able to do this? Wouldn't he need to follow the same routine time after time? Or, is there a possibility that the click track/backing track would be paused, and somehow, they always seem to start it up again...EXACTLY RIGHT?


.......Oh, and is it just my eyes, or does Billy NOT EVEN have monitors in his ears?

Never saw Billy ever use in-ear monitors. Uses floor wedges.

I just found something REALLY interesting this....

They are soundboard recordings from the Japanese leg of the 2006 tour. All of the songs sounds like raw, live versions of Billy Joel. Interestingly, the recording for River Of Dreams has, a clear as gunshot in an empty room, the click track that Chuck plays too. Even the automated countdown is included. And my previous question of what happens during the "pause" is spelled out, as clear as day. Now, correct me if I am wrong, but you can IN FACT hear the difference between the live vocals and the pre-recorded ones.

(I'm including all of the other soundboard recordings from this show..not only for possible comparative reasons, but because they are actually rather good.)


RIVER OF DREAMS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Otw6esMqkE

Prelude/Angry Young Man - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22YSEdkEeRU
My Life - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZdNj4gAOxg
Vienna - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP8dMmxJKs0
The Stranger - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3_tqeTAl3Q
Don't Ask Me Why - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0df43KBS1zU

River of Dreams has a percussion loop that plays throughout the whole song, which is why they needed to keep in time with a click track. Those congas aren't being played live - you can see the percussion player in that video and he's definitely playing auxiliary percussion during that song while the conga loop runs throughout the tune.

Jeremey wrote:River of Dreams has a percussion loop that plays throughout the whole song, which is why they needed to keep in time with a click track. Those congas aren't being played live - you can see the percussion player in that video and he's definitely playing auxiliary percussion during that song while the conga loop runs throughout the tune.

Are you, in essence, saying that you KNOW that there is no backing track used there? I concluded that there was one, because some of the backing vocals seems louder than others. The lower ones I assumed were the live ones; louder ones are pre-recorded ones. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Otw6esMqkE

I only ask further questions, because I know you know your shit, Jeremy.

I don't know anything for sure from that recording. I was just going off memory of what the studio track sounded like and the live video posted earlier in the thread (I hadn't listened to that YT clip you just posted) ...

Listening to that recording, it's obvious a monitor mix that someone recorded and you can hear the click track, which many drummers use even if they don't have backing tracks to make sure that they keep a consistent tempo. Hard to say which monitor mix it was, but the keyboards (pads) sound very loud in the mix so I'd wager a guess it could be the keyboard player's monitor mix.

Impossible to say what's going on without comparing the monitor mix with an actual video of that performance. Could be that they are using the studio-recorded background vocals and the conga percussion track for the live performance. But there's so much wizardry going on in live music production these days it's impossible to know what is really going on unless you're in the band or on the production crew. Bottom line is I don't really think it matters to be honest if the crowd is having a good time and enjoys the show!

Jeremey wrote:I don't know anything for sure from that recording. I was just going off memory of what the studio track sounded like and the live video posted earlier in the thread (I hadn't listened to that YT clip you just posted) ...

Listening to that recording, it's obvious a monitor mix that someone recorded and you can hear the click track, which many drummers use even if they don't have backing tracks to make sure that they keep a consistent tempo. Hard to say which monitor mix it was, but the keyboards (pads) sound very loud in the mix so I'd wager a guess it could be the keyboard player's monitor mix.

Impossible to say what's going on without comparing the monitor mix with an actual video of that performance. Could be that they are using the studio-recorded background vocals and the conga percussion track for the live performance. But there's so much wizardry going on in live music production these days it's impossible to know what is really going on unless you're in the band or on the production crew. Bottom line is I don't really think it matters to be honest if the crowd is having a good time and enjoys the show!

Fair enough.