MR

From a new interview (see link): "I think that our records are just more about making songs, but then nobody’s really all that jacked up about recording new songs in the band right now. I am, but I’m trying to get everybody else motivated.”

If Neal is motivated and Cain is not, I suggest that Neal forge ahead and write new Journey material with a proven collaborator like Blades or JSS. Hell, go write some tunes with Augeri or Jeremey.

http://somethingelsereviews.com/2014/05 ... he-studio/

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
If Neal is motivated and Cain is not, I suggest that Neal forge ahead and write new material with ...

Chalfant and Rolie

Perry-Schon solo album. No pressure of Journey. That's the ticket.

Memorex wrote:Perry-Schon solo album. No pressure of Journey. That's the ticket.

I'd rather see this than a new album from a band that "doesn't feel like it" any day!

StoneCold wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
If Neal is motivated and Cain is not, I suggest that Neal forge ahead and write new material with ...

Chalfant and Rolie

I think Rolie is content with being a weekend warrior until a bigger fish like Ringo Starr comes along .

Memorex wrote:Perry-Schon solo album. No pressure of Journey. That's the ticket.

YES, a Perry-Schon duo album would have Jonathan following behind them like a little lost puppy .

I'm sure it must be frustrating and disheartening for them to be as successful as they are and have people covering their music constantly on TV and loving DSB. And yet, be unable to get those very same people interested in their new stuff.

Majestic wrote:

Memorex wrote:Perry-Schon solo album. No pressure of Journey. That's the ticket.

I'd rather see this than a new album from a band that "doesn't feel like it" any day!

Seems like the fastest way to have a solid combo getting down to the art and joy of what they had without all the ridiculousness that Journey invites. Maybe it's why Schon does the solo albums in the first place. I'd even go so far as to say Cain producing to glue their individual ideas together, but again without the Journey name to add the craziness.

In any case, I just hope they are all doing what makes each of them happy.

They need to take a cue from guys like Sammy Hagar (multiple bands/projects, prioritize when/where as necessary) or just call it a day. Even Blue Oyster Cult gets more respect.

verslibre wrote:They need to take a cue from guys like Sammy Hagar (multiple bands/projects, prioritize when/where as necessary) or just call it a day. Even Blue Oyster Cult gets more respect.

Maybe Journey would be more motivated if they added some cowbell to their music?

Journey/Survivor wrote:

verslibre wrote:They need to take a cue from guys like Sammy Hagar (multiple bands/projects, prioritize when/where as necessary) or just call it a day. Even Blue Oyster Cult gets more respect.

Maybe Journey would be more motivated if they added some cowbell to their music?

At this stage, anything will help. ANYTHING.

Memorex wrote:Perry-Schon solo album. No pressure of Journey. That's the ticket.

I'd rather see a new Hardline album myself, Double Eclipse was by far Neal's best work.

Time for Cain to go I think. Dude's clearly been unhappy for a while now. Not sure what he's expecting. The fact that this band who's hey day was 30 years ago is able to still do world tours is pretty freaking amazing. If that's not motivating to JC, not sure what is. Truth of the matter is that NOBODY is buying albums by artists of this time period, but the fact that they can still sell out shows is pretty amazing. I can't believe that these guys wouldn't want to keep writing and making new albums simply if for nothing more than to a) show they still can and b) have something new in the set.

brywool wrote:Time for Cain to go I think. Dude's clearly been unhappy for a while now. Not sure what he's expecting. The fact that this band who's hey day was 30 years ago is able to still do world tours is pretty freaking amazing. If that's not motivating to JC, not sure what is. Truth of the matter is that NOBODY is buying albums by artists of this time period, but the fact that they can still sell out shows is pretty amazing. I can't believe that these guys wouldn't want to keep writing and making new albums simply if for nothing more than to a) show they still can and b) have something new in the set.

The worst thing about it to me is that it is almost like Cain is owning up to the corporate rock label that he once claimed to take so much offense at. Corporations care more about sales than artists do. He has made enough money already where he has the luxury to do what few artists can, and live for his art without worrying how to eat or pay the bills, but he doesn't want to play anymore, if his art doesn't make millions, which is sad. The fact of the matter is, if his music were selling millions today, then he would be make music that none of us, who like Journey music, would want to hear.

Majestic wrote:

brywool wrote:Time for Cain to go I think. Dude's clearly been unhappy for a while now. Not sure what he's expecting. The fact that this band who's hey day was 30 years ago is able to still do world tours is pretty freaking amazing. If that's not motivating to JC, not sure what is. Truth of the matter is that NOBODY is buying albums by artists of this time period, but the fact that they can still sell out shows is pretty amazing. I can't believe that these guys wouldn't want to keep writing and making new albums simply if for nothing more than to a) show they still can and b) have something new in the set.

The worst thing about it to me is that it is almost like Cain is owning up to the corporate rock label that he once claimed to take so much offense at. Corporations care more about sales than artists do. He has made enough money already where he has the luxury to do what few artists can, and live for his art without worrying how to eat or pay the bills, but he doesn't want to play anymore, if his art doesn't make millions, which is sad. The fact of the matter is, if his music were selling millions today, then he would be make music that none of us, who like Journey music, would want to hear.

Great post!!

I fully agree. It seems like Cain is too motivated by money these days and not by music.

As for Neal's comment that he has to try to convince the rest of the band to record a new album...
I highly doubt that Deen lacks the motivation to record new music. I also doubt that Ross does.
Arnel, other than the fact that he misses his family and home, probably would be cool with making another album.

It seems to be strictly Cain being the one holding up the recording of a new album.

Considering the lackluster material on Eclipse, I can't blame the band for being uninspired. Maybe their creative juices have just run out, and they know it.

WalrusOct9 wrote:Considering the lackluster material on Eclipse, I can't blame the band for being uninspired. Maybe their creative juices have just run out, and they know it.

I doubt Schon will ever lose his creativity or love for guitar playing. I agree with whoever said Cain is tired of the Journey gig, doesn't want to tour probably.

Would love to see Journey invigorated again and put out some good tracks. If it takes a lineup change, so be it.

J. Cain is starting to sound a little bit like Perry. A real stick in the mud holding back the rest of the band (ok, just Neal) from moving forward. 'Arrival' had outside writing help and alot of the songs were stronger than the usual Cain sappy compositions. Cain also claimed to be done with full length LPs after 'Arrival' bombed. As a result, the Augeri era was pretty much squandered and we only got one other album, the fairly dismal "Generations" Time's a wasting...

WalrusOct9 wrote:Considering the lackluster material on Eclipse...

I think both Arnel albums have been great so far. Including Eclipse.

brywool wrote:Time for Cain to go I think. Dude's clearly been unhappy for a while now. Not sure what he's expecting. The fact that this band who's hey day was 30 years ago is able to still do world tours is pretty freaking amazing. If that's not motivating to JC, not sure what is. Truth of the matter is that NOBODY is buying albums by artists of this time period, but the fact that they can still sell out shows is pretty amazing. I can't believe that these guys wouldn't want to keep writing and making new albums simply if for nothing more than to a) show they still can and b) have something new in the set.

Cain's clearly the problem at the moment, but I don't want him to abandon ship. He's a huge reason for Journey's success and their signature sound and I'm not sure my personal interest in the band could survive his departure (or Schon's). I think Neal ought to bring Blades in per TNC and hopefully that chemistry will help shock Jon out of this rut. I have to imagine a collaboration between the 3 of them could bear some wonderful fruit.

Also, at the risk of pissing off my fellow fans, I also think Journey should cash in on their close association with Rascal Flatts and write a song with them. Ought to bring some much-needed publicity.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

WalrusOct9 wrote:Considering the lackluster material on Eclipse...

I think both Arnel albums have been great so far. Including Eclipse.

Totally. I wasn't a fan of the re-records (other than Only the Young which I loved) but that was a means to an end and I don't judge them by those recordings. The new music on Revelation and Eclipse I thought was great and I don't get people's complaints about it. It certainly had more energy than Arrival did (and I like Arrival too).
Yeah, the Cain deal DOES feel like the Perry deal "he doesn't want to work". I guess that if Journey can't be a top group, then it's not worth it to JC. No groups like Journey sell the kind of numbers they did in 1983, so I think that's kind of an unreasonable expectation. However, maybe at his age, he's going "Yeah, it's not going to go anywhere, so why put out the effort?" I get that, but it's a drag that he might feel that way. Styx seems to have bought into that too, ugh.

Deen, Neal, and Arnel all want to work- that's been said. Valory, I've not really heard about, but I would imagine that he feels the same. Cain's been kind of shifting his focus for the last few years (moving to Nashville, focusing on his daughter's career, etc.). Maybe it's time that Journey does an album without Cain. If JC wants a break from new material, don't include him. I would doubt that the album would sound like Journey and would sound more like Neal doing a solo record, but at least it's new music. If you listen to Neal's new "Serenity" cut, that's probably a good indication of what a Cainless Journey album would sound like.
For the past few years, at least in the press, it seems Cain has been kind of the negative guy in Journey, even kind of bad mouthing Eclipse which I found pretty odd. Outside of Arnel getting the 'he's homesick" spin from the press, the only other negativity I've heard about has been from Jon Cain's corner.

I personally feel that Cain was the one who held back Eclipse. Musically Eclipse is great, I feel that lyrically (which seems to be Cain's department) the album lacks big time. I mean yeah Schon wanted a rock album with Eclipse, but Journey has done rock albums in the past that have had catchy songs. Lyrically speaking there wasn't much that was catchy on Eclipse and for a band that is built around arena rock with catchy chorus, Eclipse really doesn't have that.

Cain may not want to spend the time writing anymore for J and wants to write for other people. He may also understand that if J is making any money these days it's out on the road, not making new albums. So, if he's going to make an effort, he'll sacrifice writing and be out on the road touring.

Time to replace Cain. Past time, actually....

StoneCold wrote:Chalfant and Rolie

THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If Neal is dictating the type of sound Journey should have, like he did with Eclipse, why should Jonathan or Arnel be motivated? it sounds to me like Neal is trying to pass the "blame" to others when it really should be a band question, and a band problem, and a band project.

Cain doesn't need to tour anymore, and there's no reason to write with Journey if he can't write the way he wants to. JC is not gonna let Neal put out another Eclipse. He'll simply veto it. It just takes him away from where he wants to put his energy. He has a home, a brand new commercial studio and a daughter who is a budding country singer. He's previously said that he wants to write, produce and get in the Nashville Songwriters HOF.

All in Nashville. So he's clearly knows where he wants to be.

And he's a songwriter.. not a road dog like Neal.

Monker wrote:If Neal is dictating the type of sound Journey should have, like he did with Eclipse, why should Jonathan or Arnel be motivated?

Wait, wait, a goddamn minute here. During VH1-BTM, Cain clearly said that, with Neal, "he saw a guy who wanted his band back." Well, guess what? As HIS band, Neal should have a little more creative input than just a guitar solo here or there during a bridge or outro of one of Cain's by-the-numbers Bat Mitzvah ballads. The band was built around Neal. It is not that drastic of a shift to make songs guitar driven instead of keyboard driven. In fact, it is a change that should have happened already.

Also, Cain wrote 100% of the lyrics on Eclipse. The whole theme of humanity being a part of some cosmic network of energy/love is pure Cain. And it's a cliched lyrical-well he has dived deeply into before. Journey song titles like "Colors of the Spirit", "Change for the Better" and "Anything Is Possible" are also chapter titles in trashy Depek Chopra/Wayne Dyer New Age-y best sellers (which Cain is an admitted fan of). So the notion that Cain was shut out of the process is just totally false.

Look at you two lovebirds faux-arguing!

verslibre wrote:Look at you two lovebirds faux-arguing!

So now that Andrew booted Korn's annoying ass, are you vying to fill the role of resident forum jerkoff? You're off to a great start buddy.

Did someone piss in your Cheerios or is it your time of the month?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Monker wrote:If Neal is dictating the type of sound Journey should have, like he did with Eclipse, why should Jonathan or Arnel be motivated?

Wait, wait, a goddamn minute here. During VH1-BTM, Cain clearly said that, with Neal, "he saw a guy who wanted his band back." Well, guess what? As HIS band, Neal should have a little more creative input than just a guitar solo here or there during a bridge or outro of one of Cain's by-the-numbers Bat Mitzvah ballads. The band was built around Neal. It is not that drastic of a shift to make songs guitar driven instead of keyboard driven. In fact, it is a change that should have happened already.

Also, Cain wrote 100% of the lyrics on Eclipse. The whole theme of humanity being a part of some cosmic network of energy/love is pure Cain. And it's a cliched lyrical-well he has dived deeply into before. Journey song titles like "Colors of the Spirit", "Change for the Better" and "Anything Is Possible" are also chapter titles in trashy Depek Chopra/Wayne Dyer New Age-y best sellers (which Cain is an admitted fan of). So the notion that Cain was shut out of the process is just totally false.

I didn't say Jonathan was "shut out". I am saying Neal was dictating the sound on Eclipse. IMO, Neal did the same to the band on Eclipse as Perry did on ROR, with the exception of firing band members. Neal said he hated Perry during ROR. He should expect the same sentiments from the rest of the band when he is doing the exact same thing today. There is no reason to record as a band when one member is dominating.