MR

With the recent interview with Jonathan Cain (a great one in my opinion, considering it doesn't rehash a lot of the same stuff we've heard from other interviews ad nauseum), who are we to believe in regards to Kevin Chalfant's involvement with the guys? Kevin seems to have maintained a consistent story on the events that have taken place, yet Jonathan seems to have wiped the majority of it from the table. Also, the interview makes it seem like Kevin's album was recorded years before its actual release which doesn't make any sense.

Just like when a guy says "No, that hooker said I was different", everybody has their own perception of things in their lives. There is probably no wrong answer.

Maybe the writings session which took place post-TBF had only Rolie, Schon, KC ,but no Cain. We do know that KC sang at the Herbie roast in place of Perry. Cain's memory also seems hazy given that he mentions Kevin playing a tribute album for them, when there was no such thing (at least not available to the public) until 2012's Fly2Freedom, released long after the band had already moved on. Maybe KC played the guys a few tracks from Two Fires and Cain mistook it as a Journey tribute? Andrew could always email Kevin for us. Actually, KC is fairly fan friendly and will email fans back himself. So if any fans gives a shit you could always email him yourself.

It’s been stated online that Kevin Chalfant of The Storm – a now defunct group that featured former Journey members Ross Valory, Gregg Rolie and Steve Smith – was going to be the lead singer of Journey prior to you guys reuniting in 1995 with Steve Perry. Is this true?

No, it’s not true. We looked at him for a second. When Steve Perry left…from ’87 to ’96, we left Journey alone. We never talked about Chalfant or anybody. We just walked away from it realizing that we had come to an impasse.

Then we did Trial By Fire and two years went by and we were going into ’98. That’s when Neal said, “I want my band back. I started the damn thing. Would you help me?” I said, “Hell yeah. We wrote two thirds of the catalog.” So, we called Perry and he declined doing another album. He declined doing touring. He didn’t want to do anything. That’s when we started looking and said, “Maybe we can get somebody else to do this.”

So, Chalfant had done a record, a tribute record I think, and played it for us. And we were mildly interested, so we did have a sit-down with him. We talked about it and declined him being the guy. We just decided, “Nah, we’ve gotta’ keep looking.”

And then Steve Augeri showed up and he was a natural fit for us at that time. He really was.






Curious, that Jonathan doesn't even mention that Chalfant sang with them at the Roast of Herbie Herbert once- nor does the interviewer. It almost sounds like "Fly 2 Freedom" was what did Chalfant in. It HAD to be uncomfortable for all involved to listen to it with Chalfant sitting right there . This was before everyone and their mother on American Idol, The Voice, and Glee was covering Journey every other week. It's human nature to sit there and compare and nitpick something they created to hear all the imperfections or things they might've liked. I imagine Ross was there too. Ahh, to be the "Fly" on the wall after that meeting . Plus, he said that this was 2 years AFTER Trial By Fire- not before it with Gregg Rolie. There's also no mention of Journey and Chalfant writing ANY songs together. Jonathan's version of events is completely different from the story Chalfant always repeats . Honestly, I'm not surprised that to Jonathan it's not as big a deal as it would be to Chalfant. Unless, they spoke to Chalfant twice Once before Trial By Fire with Gregg Rolie and once afterwards. I guess that would contribute to the rumor that Chalfant thinks that "Journey always screws him over" .

Quoting the article and myself cause I wanted to talk about this. Chalfant says that the only reason he's not in Journey is because Steve Perry wanted to come back. Or how Chalfant wishes it were Steve Perry became so nervous that Chalfant might outshine and become more popular than him- he sprang out of retirement and forced the rest of Journey to sign a deal to never, ever hire him . I kid, I kid.

Jonathan doesn't mention Gregg Rolie or writing songs with Kevin at all. Doesn't Kevin have a song written with Gregg and Neal on one of his CDs? Does the credit mention Jonathan? Maybe he wasn't there when they did it. Maybe he was in Nashville. But why would Neal, Gregg, and Kevin be writing anything post TBF? It would've had to have been before. He claims there are other songs he's sitting on. What's he waiting for? Gregg Rolie's not going to magically come back to him. He's with Ringo Starr now .

As for "Fly 2 Freedom", I don't think Jonathan would mistake hearing a tribute to his own music. Maybe Chalfant was working on it for a LONG time and played some of it for them. Or maybe he played it for him one of those times Journey came to town and he bummed tickets off them and ate off their deli trays and drank their cappucino . He also never gave a reason for not hiring him other than "Nah, we gotta keep looking". Gregg & Ross may like Kevin. Smitty may like Kevin (but not enough to ride out The Storm ). But he never clicked with Neal and Jon. Ross alone can't get Kevin hired.

I've always thought that there HAD to be more to Chalfant's version of events. Details, I want DETAILS . He must have fun anecdotes of touring with Ross or Gregg. Somebody email Chalfant, I'd like to hear his rebuttal of Jonathan's version of events.

Final Frontiers wrote: But why would Neal, Gregg, and Kevin be writing anything post TBF? It would've had to have been before.

I dont think Kev ever said they wrote after post-TBF. It was before. And one of the songs was on the last Two Fires album.

Memorex wrote:Just like when a guy says "No, that hooker said I was different", everybody has their own perception of things in their lives. There is probably no wrong answer.

LOL.

It's all just typical music world drama. Love it or hate it, it's going to be there as long as the music is.

I would say Jon is merely confused by the question. I think he is answering post-TBF while the question was pre-TBF. There was a time post-TBF that they considered KC again, Herbie has spoken of it. But it didn't last long, for whatever reasons....

But for close to two decades "we" have "known" that Gregg and Kevin, Neal and Jon, Ross and Smitty were working together. The return of Perry is where the "history" starts to skew. And 18+ years down the road it is probably pretty difficult to remember exactly.

But I just chalk this up to Jon misunderstanding...

PianoMan1986 wrote:With the recent interview with Jonathan Cain (a great one in my opinion, considering it doesn't rehash a lot of the same stuff we've heard from other interviews ad nauseum), who are we to believe in regards to Kevin Chalfant's involvement with the guys? Kevin seems to have maintained a consistent story on the events that have taken place, yet Jonathan seems to have wiped the majority of it from the table. Also, the interview makes it seem like Kevin's album was recorded years before its actual release which doesn't make any sense.

Well, here are the facts that I know about:

Chalfant performed with Journey at the Herbie roast.
Chalfant was far enough into the band to do songwriting...he has talked about this many times. Not sure what the credits are on the Two Fires - Ignition album.
Again, there was a meeting on a canceled FTLOSM date to decide the line up and future of Journey for the reunion.
After that meeting Perry was in, and Chalfant, Gregg Rolie, and Herbie were out. (this is fact, not a rumor)
This stuff about a pre-TBF reunion with Chalfant is NOT just internet rumor...it was IN THE PRESS back then. Perry was even asked about it in interviews while on the FTLOSM tour.

My opinion:
Jonathan is being diplomatic here. What is he supposed to say? "Yeah, we were going forward with Chalfant but Sony wanted Perry and to do that we had to fire Herbie, Chalfant, and Gregg Rolie?" He was being all nice to Perry, downplaying the early reunion stuff is also being 'nice' to Perry.

It also makes Jonathan out to be a liar. His story is the reunion started with a phone call from Perry. That is simply not true...the band was already together without Perry. So, the less he speaks of it, the better.

I also think this article confuses pre-TBF, pre-Augeri, and post Augeri...since Chalfant was always in the mix. IMO, much of what Jonathan said is probably NOT pre-TBF...especially the bit about how quickly they dismissed the idea.

I believe there is an interview with Neal on this site where Neal comments that they did consider Chalfant (pre-Augeri). They decided to not go for him because The Storm was already a mini-Journey reunion and they wanted to start fresh with someone new. To me, that rings a bit more on target than this article.

The one thing the interviewer got wrong is this is an 'internet rumor'. This was all over in the press at that time, pre-TBF. Perry was even asked about his thoughts about it in interviews. Again, unless Jonoathan is talking about post-Augeri. Somebody posted on this forum back then (maybe Deano) that Chalfant got a call from Ross about what happened with Augeri and they were looking again but by the time Chalfant got back to them they had already hired JSS. That is where the "Journey screwed me again!" came from.

Chalfant's Journey tribute album came out around the time JSS was in the band, I think...so they may have heard an early version of that prior to hiring JSS...or maybe Chalfant was considered briefly before Arnel, it wouldn't surprise me.

Personally, I think Chalfant is too good for Journey. He is better off without all of that crazy political circus. Actually, Augeri is better off, too. I'm sure they would both jump at the chance if the mic was offered to them...but still...this band acts so loopy at times.

My opinion:

Pre-TBF: Chalfant was "in" the reunion and writing songs but was axed to get Perry in the band and a big contract from Sony.
Pre-Augeri: Chalfant was considered but they wanted to start clean and not go back to the old reunion stuff.
Post-Augeri: Ross tried to get Chalfant involved again but (IMO) Neal was already set on JSS and Chalfant was "screwed again."
Post JSS: If Chalfant was considered, it wasn't very seriously. Maybe they listened to his tribute album...remember they were rerecording the GH anyway...but they never seriously considered him.

jrnyman28 wrote:I would say Jon is merely confused by the question. I think he is answering post-TBF while the question was pre-TBF. There was a time post-TBF that they considered KC again, Herbie has spoken of it. But it didn't last long, for whatever reasons....

But for close to two decades "we" have "known" that Gregg and Kevin, Neal and Jon, Ross and Smitty were working together. The return of Perry is where the "history" starts to skew. And 18+ years down the road it is probably pretty difficult to remember exactly.

But I just chalk this up to Jon misunderstanding...

Yep...I agree.

I don't even think it's actually fair for Chalfant to say-think "Journey screwed him again". Technically, pre-TBF Colombia Records screwed Gregg Rolie and he was a casualty of that.

The rest of the time, Journey just wasn't that into HIM. He performed what 2 songs with them at the Herbie roast- does anybody know what 2 songs they were? And he wrote X amount of songs with Neal and Gregg (and maybe Ross was there ). Big deal, it's been almost 20 years and he's released exactly ONE of them. The material must be pretty weak if he himself is sitting on them like he thinks they're an egg about to hatch . Gregg Rolie's not that into him either or he'd have him as a part of The Gregg Rolie Band (that and Chalfant doesn't want to or maybe can't sing Latin music).

I also get the impression that Chalfant not only wants to be the lead singer in Journey, but also THE LEADER of Journey. You know the boss, and I don't think that would sit well with Neal or Jonathan.

I think Chalfant's real problem is that he doesn't have any chemistry with Neal and Jonathan.



Steve Perry was very good too, being in the band back in the day. He was a great sound designer, if you will. Once you heard him sing, it was pretty obvious what the music needed to be. Once I got his voice in my head (laughs)…just like John…when I got with John it was Bad English and when I got with Steve it was Journey.



Kevin's Voice will never be in Jonathan's or Neal's Heads .

So Robert Flesichman can claim Journey screwed him over. Jeffery Scott Soto can claim Journey screwed him over. The most Kevin Chalfant can claim is that Journey gave him blue balls . Journey is such a tease .

Final Frontiers wrote:I don't even think it's actually fair for Chalfant to say-think "Journey screwed him again". Technically, pre-TBF Colombia Records screwed Gregg Rolie and he was a casualty of that.

The rest of the time, Journey just wasn't that into HIM. He performed what 2 songs with them at the Herbie roast- does anybody know what 2 songs they were? And he wrote X amount of songs with Neal and Gregg (and maybe Ross was there ). Big deal, it's been almost 20 years and he's released exactly ONE of them. The material must be pretty weak if he himself is sitting on them like he thinks they're an egg about to hatch . Gregg Rolie's not that into him either or he'd have him as a part of The Gregg Rolie Band (that and Chalfant doesn't want to or maybe can't sing Latin music).

I also get the impression that Chalfant not only wants to be the lead singer in Journey, but also THE LEADER of Journey. You know the boss, and I don't think that would sit well with Neal or Jonathan.

I think Chalfant's real problem is that he doesn't have any chemistry with Neal and Jonathan.



Steve Perry was very good too, being in the band back in the day. He was a great sound designer, if you will. Once you heard him sing, it was pretty obvious what the music needed to be. Once I got his voice in my head (laughs)…just like John…when I got with John it was Bad English and when I got with Steve it was Journey.



Kevin's Voice will never be in Jonathan's or Neal's Heads .

So Robert Flesichman can claim Journey screwed him over. Jeffery Scott Soto can claim Journey screwed him over. The most Kevin Chalfant can claim is that Journey gave him blue balls . Journey is such a tease .

I think the "screwing" him over" might be said in jest. I remember several KC interviews during the SA era...one when he showed up to watch a concert (2005) ... said they were all friends (SA-included) ... and he "loved the guys" -- his exact words! But, then, a lot has happened since then to upside the apple cart ... long-time fans have gotten jaded with this band ... but back in the span of years when SA was entrenched and VERY popular with the loyalist fanbase ... it seems every and anyone even remotely connected with the Journey name got along -- like 1 big family. SP was looked at as the lone exception ... who didn't want to have anything to do with the Band ... won't talk to them, won't say anything to promote them ...a sour puss. This was from the fanbase perspective.

annie89509 wrote:

Final Frontiers wrote:I don't even think it's actually fair for Chalfant to say-think "Journey screwed him again". Technically, pre-TBF Colombia Records screwed Gregg Rolie and he was a casualty of that.

The rest of the time, Journey just wasn't that into HIM. He performed what 2 songs with them at the Herbie roast- does anybody know what 2 songs they were? And he wrote X amount of songs with Neal and Gregg (and maybe Ross was there ). Big deal, it's been almost 20 years and he's released exactly ONE of them. The material must be pretty weak if he himself is sitting on them like he thinks they're an egg about to hatch . Gregg Rolie's not that into him either or he'd have him as a part of The Gregg Rolie Band (that and Chalfant doesn't want to or maybe can't sing Latin music).

I also get the impression that Chalfant not only wants to be the lead singer in Journey, but also THE LEADER of Journey. You know the boss, and I don't think that would sit well with Neal or Jonathan.

I think Chalfant's real problem is that he doesn't have any chemistry with Neal and Jonathan.



Steve Perry was very good too, being in the band back in the day. He was a great sound designer, if you will. Once you heard him sing, it was pretty obvious what the music needed to be. Once I got his voice in my head (laughs)…just like John…when I got with John it was Bad English and when I got with Steve it was Journey.



Kevin's Voice will never be in Jonathan's or Neal's Heads .

So Robert Flesichman can claim Journey screwed him over. Jeffery Scott Soto can claim Journey screwed him over. The most Kevin Chalfant can claim is that Journey gave him blue balls . Journey is such a tease .

I think the "screwing" him over" might be said in jest. I remember several KC interviews during the SA era...one when he showed up to watch a concert (2005) ... said they were all friends (SA-included) ... and he "loved the guys" -- his exact words! But, then, a lot has happened since then to upside the apple cart ... long-time fans have gotten jaded with this band ... but back in the span of years when SA was entrenched and VERY popular with the loyalist fanbase ... it seems every and anyone even remotely connected with the Journey name got along -- like 1 big family. SP was looked at as the lone exception ... who didn't want to have anything to do with the Band ... won't talk to them, won't say anything to promote them ...a sour puss. This was from the fanbase perspective.

Well of course Kevin's not going to say that he hates Journey because they keeping teasing him with the lead singer job and then giving it to someone else who can't sustain. He has to stay diplomatic in case they finally have no other options and HAVE to come to him. He wants to stay in their good graces so he can continue to bum concert tickets, eat their deli trays, and drink cappucino . It's just human nature for people to be bitter over lost opportunities and fate and things out of their control. Especially if you think (and/or people tell you) that you have all the singing talent and song writing abilities of Steve Perry. And he's a multi-millionaire pop culture icon beloved around the world (who walked away from show business) while you toil away in obscurity. It must stink even more to have had a semi successful band with Gregg, Ross, and Smitty and through no fault of your own it's still not enough. Finally, the only way for you to get any press or opportunities to work in your home country is to start a tribute band to the guys that won't hire you all the way claiming it's not a tribute band . And exploiting your thin connections to them. Don't get me wrong, I don't fault Chalfant's hustle. But he's misleading people as to how involved he is to Journey.

Monker wrote:

PianoMan1986 wrote:With the recent interview with Jonathan Cain (a great one in my opinion, considering it doesn't rehash a lot of the same stuff we've heard from other interviews ad nauseum), who are we to believe in regards to Kevin Chalfant's involvement with the guys? Kevin seems to have maintained a consistent story on the events that have taken place, yet Jonathan seems to have wiped the majority of it from the table. Also, the interview makes it seem like Kevin's album was recorded years before its actual release which doesn't make any sense.

Well, here are the facts that I know about:

Chalfant performed with Journey at the Herbie roast.
Chalfant was far enough into the band to do songwriting...he has talked about this many times. Not sure what the credits are on the Two Fires - Ignition album.
Again, there was a meeting on a canceled FTLOSM date to decide the line up and future of Journey for the reunion.
After that meeting Perry was in, and Chalfant, Gregg Rolie, and Herbie were out. (this is fact, not a rumor)
This stuff about a pre-TBF reunion with Chalfant is NOT just internet rumor...it was IN THE PRESS back then. Perry was even asked about it in interviews while on the FTLOSM tour.

My opinion:
Jonathan is being diplomatic here. What is he supposed to say? "Yeah, we were going forward with Chalfant but Sony wanted Perry and to do that we had to fire Herbie, Chalfant, and Gregg Rolie?" He was being all nice to Perry, downplaying the early reunion stuff is also being 'nice' to Perry.

It also makes Jonathan out to be a liar. His story is the reunion started with a phone call from Perry. That is simply not true...the band was already together without Perry. So, the less he speaks of it, the better.

I also think this article confuses pre-TBF, pre-Augeri, and post Augeri...since Chalfant was always in the mix. IMO, much of what Jonathan said is probably NOT pre-TBF...especially the bit about how quickly they dismissed the idea.

I believe there is an interview with Neal on this site where Neal comments that they did consider Chalfant (pre-Augeri). They decided to not go for him because The Storm was already a mini-Journey reunion and they wanted to start fresh with someone new. To me, that rings a bit more on target than this article.

The one thing the interviewer got wrong is this is an 'internet rumor'. This was all over in the press at that time, pre-TBF. Perry was even asked about his thoughts about it in interviews. Again, unless Jonoathan is talking about post-Augeri. Somebody posted on this forum back then (maybe Deano) that Chalfant got a call from Ross about what happened with Augeri and they were looking again but by the time Chalfant got back to them they had already hired JSS. That is where the "Journey screwed me again!" came from.

Chalfant's Journey tribute album came out around the time JSS was in the band, I think...so they may have heard an early version of that prior to hiring JSS...or maybe Chalfant was considered briefly before Arnel, it wouldn't surprise me.

Personally, I think Chalfant is too good for Journey. He is better off without all of that crazy political circus. Actually, Augeri is better off, too. I'm sure they would both jump at the chance if the mic was offered to them...but still...this band acts so loopy at times.

My opinion:

Pre-TBF: Chalfant was "in" the reunion and writing songs but was axed to get Perry in the band and a big contract from Sony.
Pre-Augeri: Chalfant was considered but they wanted to start clean and not go back to the old reunion stuff.
Post-Augeri: Ross tried to get Chalfant involved again but (IMO) Neal was already set on JSS and Chalfant was "screwed again."
Post JSS: If Chalfant was considered, it wasn't very seriously. Maybe they listened to his tribute album...remember they were rerecording the GH anyway...but they never seriously considered him.

Monker - what you say makes sense....most of what you mentioned I do remember reading about one time or another, when it was all going down. Especially the part about Neal not wanting to pull a member from an already existing mini-Journey. I also remember Perry being asked about it on Much Music while promoting his solo tour. Here's the link to the interview when he was asked. This was 1994. They discuss "a new singer" around the 9:30 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4awDrQOWTT4

Final Frontiers wrote:I don't even think it's actually fair for Chalfant to say-think "Journey screwed him again". Technically, pre-TBF Colombia Records screwed Gregg Rolie and he was a casualty of that.

The rest of the time, Journey just wasn't that into HIM. He performed what 2 songs with them at the Herbie roast- does anybody know what 2 songs they were? .

Was definitely Separate Ways (with Smith on drums). I think the other song was Lights (with Dunbar on drums). Read it in Rolling Stone years ago, but that's what I seem to remember.

Monker wrote:

PianoMan1986 wrote:With the recent interview with Jonathan Cain (a great one in my opinion, considering it doesn't rehash a lot of the same stuff we've heard from other interviews ad nauseum), who are we to believe in regards to Kevin Chalfant's involvement with the guys? Kevin seems to have maintained a consistent story on the events that have taken place, yet Jonathan seems to have wiped the majority of it from the table. Also, the interview makes it seem like Kevin's album was recorded years before its actual release which doesn't make any sense.

Well, here are the facts that I know about:

Chalfant performed with Journey at the Herbie roast.
Chalfant was far enough into the band to do songwriting...he has talked about this many times. Not sure what the credits are on the Two Fires - Ignition album.
Again, there was a meeting on a canceled FTLOSM date to decide the line up and future of Journey for the reunion.
After that meeting Perry was in, and Chalfant, Gregg Rolie, and Herbie were out. (this is fact, not a rumor)
This stuff about a pre-TBF reunion with Chalfant is NOT just internet rumor...it was IN THE PRESS back then. Perry was even asked about it in interviews while on the FTLOSM tour.

My opinion:
Jonathan is being diplomatic here. What is he supposed to say? "Yeah, we were going forward with Chalfant but Sony wanted Perry and to do that we had to fire Herbie, Chalfant, and Gregg Rolie?" He was being all nice to Perry, downplaying the early reunion stuff is also being 'nice' to Perry.

It also makes Jonathan out to be a liar. His story is the reunion started with a phone call from Perry. That is simply not true...the band was already together without Perry. So, the less he speaks of it, the better.

I also think this article confuses pre-TBF, pre-Augeri, and post Augeri...since Chalfant was always in the mix. IMO, much of what Jonathan said is probably NOT pre-TBF...especially the bit about how quickly they dismissed the idea.

I believe there is an interview with Neal on this site where Neal comments that they did consider Chalfant (pre-Augeri). They decided to not go for him because The Storm was already a mini-Journey reunion and they wanted to start fresh with someone new. To me, that rings a bit more on target than this article.

The one thing the interviewer got wrong is this is an 'internet rumor'. This was all over in the press at that time, pre-TBF. Perry was even asked about his thoughts about it in interviews. Again, unless Jonoathan is talking about post-Augeri. Somebody posted on this forum back then (maybe Deano) that Chalfant got a call from Ross about what happened with Augeri and they were looking again but by the time Chalfant got back to them they had already hired JSS. That is where the "Journey screwed me again!" came from.

Chalfant's Journey tribute album came out around the time JSS was in the band, I think...so they may have heard an early version of that prior to hiring JSS...or maybe Chalfant was considered briefly before Arnel, it wouldn't surprise me.

Personally, I think Chalfant is too good for Journey. He is better off without all of that crazy political circus. Actually, Augeri is better off, too. I'm sure they would both jump at the chance if the mic was offered to them...but still...this band acts so loopy at times.

My opinion:

Pre-TBF: Chalfant was "in" the reunion and writing songs but was axed to get Perry in the band and a big contract from Sony.
Pre-Augeri: Chalfant was considered but they wanted to start clean and not go back to the old reunion stuff.
Post-Augeri: Ross tried to get Chalfant involved again but (IMO) Neal was already set on JSS and Chalfant was "screwed again."
Post JSS: If Chalfant was considered, it wasn't very seriously. Maybe they listened to his tribute album...remember they were rerecording the GH anyway...but they never seriously considered him.

Thanks Monker -- that's pretty much what I wanted to hear/read. The pipe dream of a 6 piece lineup with Rolie and Chalfant would have been interesting to hear. Oh well, all in the past I guess.

Here's my take on it....which is pretty close to Monker's version.

The box set in 1993 pretty much re-ignited the Journey spark in Schon/Cain. Of course, the problem was Perry, who wanted nothing to do with it whatsoever. By the time you go back far enough to get everything ready, you are probably talking '92 or so.

You've got The Storm's Eye of the Storm record, which was recorded about 1993, but the band was effectively kaput after the recording was finished. With Chalfant being "Herbie's preferred choice", and Chalfant performing for the Herbie Herbert roast and the stage was set with the six-man lineup. That means, for all intents and purposes, Journey was unofficially back in business around 1994.

Of course, the wrinkle in the plan is Perry coming back on the scene.

At this point, my guess is that two things happened....
1) Columbia was less than thrilled with the idea of a Perry-less Journey
2) BIG money was on the table for a reunion of the classic 5-piece Escape/Frontiers lineup.

It probably sounded like a good idea at the time for obvious reasons, and soon Chalfant/Rolie/Herbert were out the door, Perry was in, and Trial By Fire was the result.

"Some Things Are Better Left Unsaid", which is off the Two Fires Burning Bright album is the only song from the Chalfant/Rolie sessions that has seen the light of day. The credits list it as Chalfant/Rolie/Schon. Obviously though, you are hearing a re-recording with a considerably older Chalfant, and how close it is the original demo is anyone's guess.

Some Things Are Better Left Unsaid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ruoiGD7ADo

just as a point of comparison, here are two songs from the Eye of the Storm record. Pretty easy to tell the change in Chalfant's voice from 1993 to 2010.
Don't Give Up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E_6V1x39fw
To Have and To Hold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3j9JyP9w9A

kgdjpubs wrote:Here's my take on it....which is pretty close to Monker's version.

The box set in 1993 pretty much re-ignited the Journey spark in Schon/Cain. Of course, the problem was Perry, who wanted nothing to do with it whatsoever. By the time you go back far enough to get everything ready, you are probably talking '92 or so.

You've got The Storm's Eye of the Storm record, which was recorded about 1993, but the band was effectively kaput after the recording was finished. With Chalfant being "Herbie's preferred choice", and Chalfant performing for the Herbie Herbert roast and the stage was set with the six-man lineup. That means, for all intents and purposes, Journey was unofficially back in business around 1994.

Of course, the wrinkle in the plan is Perry coming back on the scene.

At this point, my guess is that two things happened....
1) Columbia was less than thrilled with the idea of a Perry-less Journey
2) BIG money was on the table for a reunion of the classic 5-piece Escape/Frontiers lineup.

It probably sounded like a good idea at the time for obvious reasons, and soon Chalfant/Rolie/Herbert were out the door, Perry was in, and Trial By Fire was the result.

"Some Things Are Better Left Unsaid", which is off the Two Fires Burning Bright album is the only song from the Chalfant/Rolie sessions that has seen the light of day. The credits list it as Chalfant/Rolie/Schon. Obviously though, you are hearing a re-recording with a considerably older Chalfant, and how close it is the original demo is anyone's guess.

Some Things Are Better Left Unsaid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ruoiGD7ADo

just as a point of comparison, here are two songs from the Eye of the Storm record. Pretty easy to tell the change in Chalfant's voice from 1993 to 2010.
Don't Give Up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E_6V1x39fw
To Have and To Hold http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3j9JyP9w9A

Now, you think that the pre-TBF Rolie/Schon/Chalfant/Cain-less writing sessions got far enough for them to have actually recorded demos . HHHHHHMMMMMMM, I don't think so, because if they did, you'd better believe that Chalfant would've put ANYTHING with Schon/Rolie playing on it on his CD no matter how old or less than perfect it sounded. It would've been a bonus track if nothing else. And wouldn't Chalfant have mentioned recordings if they existed all this time? He, himself, doesn't even have a copy of himself at the Herbie roast which I'm sure he regrets now.

I don't really blame Columbia for wanting Steve Perry back and for doing whatever it took to get him. There's no way for them to sell a Journey reunion without him. Steve Perry IS/WAS the FACE of Journey. There's NO getting around it. Gregg Rolie was the Voice of Santana. He probably could've been the Face too if the camera ever bothered to focus on him singing . Unfortunately, Gregg couldn't sell himself as a solo artist or as a co-lead in The Storm. I DO blame them for forcing Gregg Rolie out not cool Columbia, not cool. I want a true Journey reunion with everybody. But.... I would say that would never happen. Except that all the parties seem like they want to bury the hatchet.........

Which brings me to the next question: Would A Pre-TBF Chalfant As Lead Singer Journey With Gregg Rolie Been A Success? Or would it have gone the way of Augeri Journey? I think the general public wouldn't accept a Perryless Journey at that or any other point. Chalfant just isn't a Face. Arnel's life story has a great hook that every other Journey singer lacks.

Final Frontiers wrote:Now, you think that the pre-TBF Rolie/Schon/Chalfant/Cain-less writing sessions got far enough for them to have actually recorded demos . And wouldn't Chalfant have mentioned recordings if they existed all this time?

The writing credits on that one song are proof positive that Chalfant and Rolie were writing with Neal Schon.

Chalfant's story has been the same since at least 2000--which is well before he was doing the Journey tribute act. Hard to find any interviews before that. Here are two interviews from around 2000/2001 with Two Fires. I'm sure there are more out there.

http://www.melodicrock.com/interviews/k ... ant00.html
I had been writing with Neal, Jonathan, and Gregg when the rumors were flying.

http://www.angelfire.com/planet/strutte ... ERVIEW.htm
Herbie Herbert (then time Journey manager) was very friendly and seemed to have interest in my voice. I can't say it was that early on however. It wasn't until 1994 that I had the opportunity to actually sing and write with the band. Well, we wrote some songs together, but still no marriage.

There's another interview that I can't find where he mentioned having copies of the demos from those sessions in his sock drawer.

Final Frontiers wrote:HHHHHHMMMMMMM, I don't think so, because if they did, you'd better believe that Chalfant would've put ANYTHING with Schon/Rolie playing on it on his CD no matter how old or less than perfect it sounded. It would've been a bonus track if nothing else.

That is down to publishing rights, nothing more. It's why there are a bunch of demos from many bands that will NEVER see the light of day officially. Andrew has tried for years to get some John Waite demos for the melodicrock.com cds. It's why you will probably never see a bunch of Perry demos in Journey ever released (ie the Perry demo of With a Tear from the Raised on Radio sessions). Chalfant can re-record the songs if he wants to, but you can't just release the original demos without a lawsuit.

Final Frontiers wrote:I don't really blame Columbia for wanting Steve Perry back and for doing whatever it took to get him. There's no way for them to sell a Journey reunion without him. Steve Perry IS/WAS the FACE of Journey. There's NO getting around it.

I don't blame them either. It should have been a slam dunk option. Of course, hindsight isn't 20/20.

Final Frontiers wrote:Which brings me to the next question: Would A Pre-TBF Chalfant As Lead Singer Journey With Gregg Rolie Been A Success? Or would it have gone the way of Augeri Journey? I think the general public wouldn't accept a Perryless Journey at that or any other point. Chalfant just isn't a Face. Arnel's life story has a great hook that every other Journey singer lacks.

Hard to say. It would have been easier than doing the Perry reunion record which cemented Perry as the face of Journey, and then trying to change singers. Most likely though, it would have been about the same result in the end. You may well have had a better cd with 2 additional writers, but you still have the missing Perry problem.

Alot of the negative reaction regarding replacing Perry/Augeri stemmed from a PR problem. The VH1-BTM downplayed Perry's reluctance to tour. The episode made it sound like the band was anxious to tour after TBF (which is true), but the band had actually been waiting years and years for Perry to return. Neal even complained about this after the episode aired. BTM depicted it as if Perry was kicked out suddenly due to his health. Which is callous and wrong. But at the time, the singer was, and pretty much still is, retired. The band should have said we are a band without a singer. That was the case after TBF. And time has only vindicated their decision to soldier on.

kgdjpubs wrote:There's another interview that I can't find where he mentioned having copies of the demos from those sessions in his sock drawer.

Kevin has always said he had "songs" they wrote in the sock drawer. He never said "demos".

Final Frontiers wrote:Well of course Kevin's not going to say that he hates Journey because they keeping teasing him with the lead singer job and then giving it to someone else who can't sustain. He has to stay diplomatic in case they finally have no other options and HAVE to come to him. He wants to stay in their good graces so he can continue to bum concert tickets, eat their deli trays, and drink cappucino . It's just human nature for people to be bitter over lost opportunities and fate and things out of their control. Especially if you think (and/or people tell you) that you have all the singing talent and song writing abilities of Steve Perry. And he's a multi-millionaire pop culture icon beloved around the world (who walked away from show business) while you toil away in obscurity. It must stink even more to have had a semi successful band with Gregg, Ross, and Smitty and through no fault of your own it's still not enough. Finally, the only way for you to get any press or opportunities to work in your home country is to start a tribute band to the guys that won't hire you all the way claiming it's not a tribute band . And exploiting your thin connections to them. Don't get me wrong, I don't fault Chalfant's hustle. But he's misleading people as to how involved he is to Journey.

Yeah, I don't think it's right(accurate) that KC is currently out performing(advertising himself) as a former lead singer of Journey. If one is to read between the lines from the recent JC interview, I think Jon may be a little peeved with Kevin about that.

Here's my take of the sequence of events, which may be a little different from what others have put forth:

In the '86 Rockline Q&A radio show, hints were already out there regarding "a rumor" that the Band is(was) on the verge of disbanding and the upcoming tour is really their farewell tour. The idea must have been fueled by SP achieving such great success with ST and signs of internal conflicts culminating with RV and SS leaving the group. On the air, of course, the guys laughed it off and denied any problems before or pending on the horizon. We know how ROR ended.

There were 2 very inciteful interview articles dated in the aftermath of 1987 that I discovered on the 'net and read as a fascinated fan scouring Journey fansites (around 2005). Neal was quite upset and lashed out at who else. True to character, Jon was diplomatic in the 2nd (longer) article, saying SP was under great stress (losing his Mom and other things) and needed a break. This is where the memorable quote attributed to Jon referring to Steve came from (paraphrasing here): "every time he was up there singing those songs, he'll bleed a little. I think he just got tired of bleeding." When asked "what now," Jon said there were no plans to disband or change personnel, that as far as he was concerned, Journey is StevePerry-NealSchon-JonathanCain. They're going to put Journey on hold, he and Neal will be doing other projects until Steve decides to come back.

When Jon spoke in that story, I don't think he realized just how long Steve was going to stay away. Come Nov 1991... Steve showed up in SF to do the BG memorial tribute, sang with them ... Jon/Neal (the Journey clan) must have thought Steve was ready to get back together. Isn't this around the time Bad English imploded? Imagine the irony... waiting 5 yrs. for SP to re-gain his calling, only he doesn't want to come back to Journey, he's going to work on another solo album. (Another memorable quote...this from Neal..."we all thought it was going to be months...months become years... before you know it, it's 10 years...years we lost in the prime of our lives")

Time3 compilation came out in 1992? 93? HH retirement party? SP now too busy with his own thing to get involved in either project. What kind of message did that give out? The GH cd had been released earlier (88 or 89)...went platinum...introspectives done on the band ... Time3 did well. (Okay, pure conjecture from here on...no facts...I don't know anything). I'm guessing at this point in the timeline, there must have been a feeling among the organization, and quite a bit of frustration, that they have waited long enough for SP. This is where KC comes into the picture. I can't help but think, though, that Neal & Jon were never quite sold on this experiment. Secretly, they may be hoping that this is the final impetus to get SP to react. After all, they already had their apology from him in form of the song, Anyway. Jon said during TBF period, that when he was listening to that song, he was quite moved and knew they were going to get back together.

Who knows if it took the threat (and thought) of KC being the lead singer of Journey that did the trick. So they re-formed for TBF (my favorite album of theirs), and nothing happens again. I can understand the bitterness that Neal & Jon must have felt after all this. I don't feel any fault for SP, because I have great empathy for him. It's all water under the bridge now, and who are we, really, to judge? These are just regular guys who created songs we found endearing...no more, no less. Their story makes one heck of a soap opera, though ... and it's not over yet...

kgdjpubs wrote:

Final Frontiers wrote:

Final Frontiers wrote:HHHHHHMMMMMMM, I don't think so, because if they did, you'd better believe that Chalfant would've put ANYTHING with Schon/Rolie playing on it on his CD no matter how old or less than perfect it sounded. It would've been a bonus track if nothing else.

That is down to publishing rights, nothing more. It's why there are a bunch of demos from many bands that will NEVER see the light of day officially. Andrew has tried for years to get some John Waite demos for the melodicrock.com cds. It's why you will probably never see a bunch of Perry demos in Journey ever released (ie the Perry demo of With a Tear from the Raised on Radio sessions). Chalfant can re-record the songs if he wants to, but you can't just release the original demos without a lawsuit.

This is another time where things get confusing especially when it comes to Neal and his many, MANY records. What record companies does he put his solos, Journey, and misc. records out on? If Gregg Rolie and Chalfant both weren't under contract at that time and none of that material could be construed as "Journey". And Chalfant made sure to give credit to Schon/Rolie on his album and they got their royalties- then why couldn't he release the hypothetical demos? If publishing rights are the only problem- then can't they just fill out the paper work?

annie89509 wrote:

Final Frontiers wrote:Well of course Kevin's not going to say that he hates Journey because they keeping teasing him with the lead singer job and then giving it to someone else who can't sustain. He has to stay diplomatic in case they finally have no other options and HAVE to come to him. He wants to stay in their good graces so he can continue to bum concert tickets, eat their deli trays, and drink cappucino . It's just human nature for people to be bitter over lost opportunities and fate and things out of their control. Especially if you think (and/or people tell you) that you have all the singing talent and song writing abilities of Steve Perry. And he's a multi-millionaire pop culture icon beloved around the world (who walked away from show business) while you toil away in obscurity. It must stink even more to have had a semi successful band with Gregg, Ross, and Smitty and through no fault of your own it's still not enough. Finally, the only way for you to get any press or opportunities to work in your home country is to start a tribute band to the guys that won't hire you all the way claiming it's not a tribute band . And exploiting your thin connections to them. Don't get me wrong, I don't fault Chalfant's hustle. But he's misleading people as to how involved he is to Journey.

Yeah, I don't think it's right(accurate) that KC is currently out performing(advertising himself) as a former lead singer of Journey. If one is to read between the lines from the recent JC interview, I think Jon may be a little peeved with Kevin about that.



Who knows if it took the threat (and thought) of KC being the lead singer of Journey that did the trick. So they re-formed for TBF (my favorite album of theirs), and nothing happens again. I can understand the bitterness that Neal & Jon must have felt after all this. I don't feel any fault for SP, because I have great empathy for him. It's all water under the bridge now, and who are we, really, to judge? These are just regular guys who created songs we found endearing...no more, no less. Their story makes one heck of a soap opera, though ... and it's not over yet...

Honestly, I think Journey (including SP) should send a cease and desist letter to Chalfant to get him to stop calling himself "a former lead singer of Journey- who replaced Steve Perry for a time" . They've been awfully nice to him for all these years but it needs to stop. Him having a tribute band is- completely OKAY. Him promoting himself as being on the same level as the rest of Journey- WRONG Neither Robert Fleischman nor Jeffery Scott Soto do that- so why should Chalfant think he's so special? Now when they do interviews- former Journey singer is always mentioned promiently, but they don't advertise themselves solely that way. Their whole existences aren't wrapped up in Journey. Steve Augeri can call himself the former lead singer of Journey all he wants .

Maybe it was the idea that The Storm reunion masquerading as a Journey reunion was not only enough to get Steve back but to also cause him to be cool to Gregg Rolie too . The next question should be how long after Chalfant was gone before Columbia forced Gregg out- how much writing/demo recording was done? Were any songs recorded?

As for Trial By Fire, if Steve Perry hadn't fallen and couldn't get up, do you think they'd all still be together today? I don't know what to think.

kgdjpubs wrote:
"Some Things Are Better Left Unsaid", which is off the Two Fires Burning Bright album is the only song from the Chalfant/Rolie sessions that has seen the light of day. The credits list it as Chalfant/Rolie/Schon. Obviously though, you are hearing a re-recording with a considerably older Chalfant, and how close it is the original demo is anyone's guess.

Some Things Are Better Left Unsaid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ruoiGD7ADo

This is actually pretty good. Can't say I've liked anything I heard of Chalfant covering Journey songs. But, I tell ya, I bought the 707 Megaforce album on cassette for $0.50 at Tower Records in Mountain View waaaaay back in the day and pretty much played it until the tape went bad. Good times, many moons past. (Bad movie)

Final Frontiers wrote:

kgdjpubs wrote:

Final Frontiers wrote:
As for Trial By Fire, if Steve Perry hadn't fallen and couldn't get up, do you think they'd all still be together today? I don't know what to think.

Their reunion was modeled off of the Eagles reunion a few years before. I would think that, like the Eagles, they would have probably done it again few years later...but losing Smith along the way. He's said before that TBF was a one time thing for him.

Art Vandelay wrote: Here's the link to the interview when he was asked. This was 1994. They discuss "a new singer" around the 9:30 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4awDrQOWTT4

Wow. I remember that interview but not that part of it. Interesting indeed.

Eric wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote: Here's the link to the interview when he was asked. This was 1994. They discuss "a new singer" around the 9:30 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4awDrQOWTT4

Wow. I remember that interview but not that part of it. Interesting indeed.

Things to take away from this interview:

Steve Perry didn't mention Chalfant by name. No need to give him free publicity .
He said that the singer's voice was familiar to his- to the band's thinking. Not that HE thought Chalfant sounded like him. But he also didn't give any indication that he'd ever heard Chalfant sing before.
The host said that Steve Perry was hard to replace and the subject was quickly changed.

Too bad the question came at the end of the segment. SP could've elaborated. The host said it was a rumor and SP was well aware at that point. He was very dipolmatic- not being negative or positive.

Final Frontiers wrote:

Eric wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote: Here's the link to the interview when he was asked. This was 1994. They discuss "a new singer" around the 9:30 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4awDrQOWTT4

Wow. I remember that interview but not that part of it. Interesting indeed.

Things to take away from this interview:

Steve Perry didn't mention Chalfant by name. No need to give him free publicity .
He said that the singer's voice was familiar to his- to the band's thinking. Not that HE thought Chalfant sounded like him. But he also didn't give any indication that he'd ever heard Chalfant sing before.
The host said that Steve Perry was hard to replace and the subject was quickly changed.

Too bad the question came at the end of the segment. SP could've elaborated. The host said it was a rumor and SP was well aware at that point. He was very dipolmatic- not being negative or positive.

I always enjoyed this interview. I still remember when it first aired. It gave hope at the time that he was going to be around doing his on thing for a good while...which also made me feel ok with the rest of the band moving on with Chalfant. Could of had the best of both worlds.

Art Vandelay wrote:

Final Frontiers wrote:

Eric wrote:

Things to take away from this interview:

Steve Perry didn't mention Chalfant by name. No need to give him free publicity .
He said that the singer's voice was familiar to his- to the band's thinking. Not that HE thought Chalfant sounded like him. But he also didn't give any indication that he'd ever heard Chalfant sing before.
The host said that Steve Perry was hard to replace and the subject was quickly changed.

Too bad the question came at the end of the segment. SP could've elaborated. The host said it was a rumor and SP was well aware at that point. He was very dipolmatic- not being negative or positive.

I always enjoyed this interview. I still remember when it first aired. It gave hope at the time that he was going to be around doing his on thing for a good while...which also made me feel ok with the rest of the band moving on with Chalfant. Could of had the best of both worlds.

I wonder if SP's ever heard any of the tribute singers People constantly show him pictures of Hugo and they say he sees the resemblance. But I can't find a single interview where he's asked about Chalfant or he mentions him. The thing is, is that Steve Perry is SO big that no one is going to ask him about some nobody when he can talk about Michael Jackson, Kenny Loggins, We Are The World, Don't Stop Believin', Faithfully, etc. Nobody cares.

Final Frontiers wrote:I don't even think it's actually fair for Chalfant to say-think "Journey screwed him again".

I don't even think it's actually fair of you to say the above when I said it was from a post from somebody here on the forum who said somebody told him that Chalfant said that to Ross. it's something four people deep...even less than a rumor. It is NOT a 'fact'...very far from it.

Technically, pre-TBF Colombia Records screwed Gregg Rolie and he was a casualty of that.

This is not true. Sony wanted the Escape lineup, that is true. But, that band meeting (which is FACT) was to decide the future of Journey. STEVE PERRY letting Herbie, Chalfant, and Rolie be let go before he joined. So, since Journey agreed to that path, Journey screwed the three who were let go to yet again appease Steve Perry.

I also get the impression that Chalfant not only wants to be the lead singer in Journey, but also THE LEADER of Journey. You know the boss, and I don't think that would sit well with Neal or Jonathan.

That is just not based on any hard facts at all...just your obviously biased opinion. I have never read or seen anything that indicates Chalfant wanted to "lead" Journey.

I think Chalfant's real problem is that he doesn't have any chemistry with Neal and Jonathan.

Again, there is absolutely no evidence of that either.

Kevin's Voice will never be in Jonathan's or Neal's Heads .

Why do you keep making passive aggressive insults toward Kevin Chalfant?

So Robert Flesichman can claim Journey screwed him over. Jeffery Scott Soto can claim Journey screwed him over.

Yep....and Aynsley Dunbar, too.

The most Kevin Chalfant can claim is that Journey gave him blue balls . Journey is such a tease .

[/quote]

Nope...Kevin, Gregg, and Herbie were all screwed by Journey in favor of the lure of Perry joining and a reunion contract with Sony. Your over-active imagination and bias does not change that.

Final Frontiers wrote:Well of course Kevin's not going to say that he hates Journey because they keeping teasing him with the lead singer job and then giving it to someone else who can't sustain. He has to stay diplomatic in case they finally have no other options and HAVE to come to him.

You love to write fiction, don't you.

KC knows the Journey boat sailed for him YEARS ago. He doesn't have to say anything good, or bad, about them. He just says it like it is. That should not be so hard to believe...he is simply not the type of person to hold on to such negative crap,.

He wants to stay in their good graces so he can continue to bum concert tickets, eat their deli trays, and drink cappucino . It's just human nature for people to be bitter over lost opportunities and fate and things out of their control. Especially if you think (and/or people tell you) that you have all the singing talent and song writing abilities of Steve Perry. And he's a multi-millionaire pop culture icon beloved around the world (who walked away from show business) while you toil away in obscurity. It must stink even more to have had a semi successful band with Gregg, Ross, and Smitty and through no fault of your own it's still not enough. Finally, the only way for you to get any press or opportunities to work in your home country is to start a tribute band to the guys that won't hire you all the way claiming it's not a tribute band . And exploiting your thin connections to them. Don't get me wrong, I don't fault Chalfant's hustle. But he's misleading people as to how involved he is to Journey.

Wow, write a book. Just ensure it is in the fiction section. You have one strange and twisted view of reality.