Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

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Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby Tito » Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:31 pm

Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen Castronovo

Well my bat phone went off in recent days and it has led me to post on the MR board for the first time in years. This will be the first of two posts. This one will give the Top 5 options to replace our friend, Deen Castronovo. The second one is crisis management related and will put out the fires, so to speak. Long story short, don’t worry, Cain has got this.

On to the first post.

Obviously, everyone’s first choice is Steve Smith. But, assuming Smith isn’t going to want to do this long term, here are the Top 5 realistic choices to fill the drummer’s chair, IMO. These are not the Top 5 best drummers or necessarily my Top 5 choices per se. But, there is definitely a lot of crossover in those lists. Without further ado, here are the Top 5 REALISTIC choices (in order):

1. Ron Wikso – Already has replaced Steve Smith once (The Storm) and has worked extensively with Gregg Rolie over the past decade or so. Has also worked with Foreigner in the past among others, so won’t be in awe. Season vet.

Although not a Deen Castronovo vocally, does sing some background vocals. Ross can verify his experience with him 23 years ago. Rolie can also be a good reference due to his long term relationship with him (Schon and Cain respect Rolie’s opinion). Can’t recall, if he was with Foreigner when they toured with Journey back in ’99. If so, they can use any interactions with him as a plus or minus. At least they’ll know if they have a good dude on their hands or not.

2. Virgil Donati – will Journey go to the Soul Sirkus well one more time? Ironically, Donati replaced Castronovo in that venture, so there is precedent. Neal has a history of going to his guys he has worked with in the past, so that will definitely work in his favor. If I recall, he does a little background vocals as well but not much. Premier drummer.

The big question is will Journey go back to the Soul Sirkus squad after their last experience. They had to endure attacks for years on end by the Soto Ricans. If the Donati era doesn’t end well, will they have to worry about abusive attacks by the Donatitalians? Is it worth it?

3. Tommy “Mugs” Cain – a sentimental choice no doubt. When you’re in trouble, you turn to blood. You turn to family. Another pride and joy of Mr. and Mrs. Leonard Friga. Mugs has had a cup of coffee with Journey, years ago by substituting for an injured Castronovo.

I’m sure Jonathan wants him as this will be a stable pick and bring a much needed neighborhood and family feel back to the band.

A couple of decades ago, I would think Neal would say no to this choice as he wouldn’t want one “family” to have too much power. However, with very few major decisions going forward, this should be of no concern. Most decisions nowadays are probably relegated to which type of t-shirts to sell. That in itself, could pay dividends as this Franklin Park duo may be able to find some nice black t-shirts that have “fallen off the truck” and in turn increase profit margins on the t-shirt sales. :D

Although a solid drummer in his own right, probably the weakest drummer on this list…but it’s great company.

4. Simon Phillips – an elite drummer with extensive touring experience with Toto over the past two decades. Possibly the best drummer on this list and definitely most respected. Seems like a very good dude. One call to Lukather and the Toto guys will give them the answers they need to verify if this would be a good match. Has already replaced one legend, Jeff Porcaro. So, there will be no problem replacing Steve Smith by way of Deen Castronovo in this band. From a classic drumming style, probably the best fit for the band. Not sure of any past relationships with any band members or if he wants to tour anymore (since he left Toto to focus on solo career).

5. Todd Sucherman – alright this one is out of left field and admittedly my bias may be coming in on this. To the point, this is probably at best, only a borderline realistic option (hence #5 on this list but if a personal choice, he'd be #1).

I always thought he would be good fit for Journey as he is similar to Deen…but better (without vocals of course).

A Chicago native, which could score him points with Cain (Chicago people stick together). With all due respect, to me, the Styx thing has run its course. Twelve years ago or so, Styx was basically on par with Journey as far as touring, etc. But, I think they have become victims of their own success by constantly touring, non-stop for years. To the point, they have gone from the sheds and arenas to local fairs and village commons. I’m going to assume, Sucherman is probably tired and bored of playing the same catalog for 20 years. Let him join Journey and he can become tired of this catalog in a few years as well. It would probably be a better paying gig than Styx with less touring. They have done a couple of tours with Styx over the years, so they probably have had some interactions with him. So, they should know if he will fit in.

Not sure, if they want to rock the Classic Rock boat by stealing a guy from another band. But, hey, this is the music business, will they even care if they make waves?

It will also help the band continue their diverse, multi-cultural ways by bringing in the 2nd Jewish member in band history and first one in nearly 40 years. A tour of Israel may not be far behind. :D

That’s it for now. I will be back either later tonight or most likely tomorrow, to calm and allay any fears of this band’s future. Don’t worry, we’ll be fine. Remember, Cain has got this all under control.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby perryfan61 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:12 pm

So Deen is definitely out for good.......is that what you're saying? Or are these replacement recommendations just for a short term stay?
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:23 pm

I hate to even partake in this thread. It feels "too soon." However, Journey fans are a resilient bunch and we may as well face facts and stare the bitter reality square in the face. Out of your list, I think Wikso is a terrific choice. Simon just left TOTO, so I certainly doubt he is looking to join another touring machine. Omar has a prodigious resume and I am curious to hear what he brings to the band dynamic as he grows into the role.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby Tito » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:23 pm

Not sure if he's out permanently...but it doesn't look good. Hopefully, it's not true and he can come back.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby jrnyman28 » Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:34 pm

Like the thought you put into this. That actually made some of these choices feel possible. After your argument Ron does sound like he belongs at #1. Virgil? I would emphatically protest that idea. You make good points, and he is a virtuoso, but I thought he ruined the Soul SirkUS tracks that Deen had already recorded. Too busy. Mugs? Wouldn't have thought of him. I actually kinda like the choice. Simon? Just don't see it, although I didn't realize he quit Toto. Todd? I like it. But doubt he's going anywhere from Styx. And being a part of a deteriorating music scene like this, you don't burn any bridges.

I honestly don't see a need for any "virtuoso" drummer at this point. Which is probably why I like the idea of Mugs after all. Any replacement is going to be strictly a hired gun at this point. He won't need to be a contributor, just a live player. Hell, who's Deen's drum tech?

Omar might stay. Like you said, Neal likes to keep working with familiar people. Hell, that's how Deen got the gig.

And you're 100% correct, Smitty is the A#1 choice. And just imagine 4/5ths of the classic lineup? But so so doubtful that Smitty would want to rejoin this world touring rigor.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby Journey/Survivor » Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:25 pm

Obviously I'm still hoping that Deen can return to Journey!

But I had already been thinking about this same question.

Steve Smith would definitely be my first choice if Deen is not able to return.

The others that I had thought about were pretty much mentioned above.
Omar Hakim
Ron Wikso
Virgil Donati
Prairie Prince
Michael Shrieve
Mugs Cain

Simon Phillips is a great drummer.

Marc Droubay appears to be free at the moment, and he's a great drummer.

Aynsley Dunbar was and possibly still is a phenomenal drummer. (He's getting up there in age) But for a number of reasons, I don't see that happening.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby JohnH » Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:04 pm

Virgil is like Peart, or Portnoy. Not a chance. Simon Phillips like Steve Smith has firmly put his foot down and left the rock world for good, in his own words. The others are really good choices. I think Sucherman would be superb.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby Majestic » Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:14 pm

Deen is Journey's drummer, until he ain't. That's all I have to say on the matter.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby DracIsBack » Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:18 pm

Tito wrote:Not sure if he's out permanently...but it doesn't look good. Hopefully, it's not true and he can come back.




That said, the stigma is there. It's now his second charge for a domestic violence incident and much more serious this time.

Still sad how some have convicted him already without there being a trial. But that's how the public is. :-S
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby Art Vandelay » Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:20 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I hate to even partake in this thread. It feels "too soon." However, Journey fans are a resilient bunch and we may as well face facts and stare the bitter reality square in the face. Out of your list, I think Wikso is a terrific choice. Simon just left TOTO, so I certainly doubt he is looking to join another touring machine. Omar has a prodigious resume and I am curious to hear what he brings to the band dynamic as he grows into the role.


I'm curious to see what Omar brings as well, as I've been a fan of his since his Sting days in the late 80's. Unless he's offered the full-time seat, though, I doubt if he will do anything more than hold a steady and solid back-beat. No reason to twist the music into his own style too much if he's not going to be there permanently.

I see that people are mentioning Aynsley....I really doubt that. His history with the band is way-way-way in the past, and his style of drumming doesn't mesh with Journey's later music anyway. Not that he couldn't play it...but he's a bluesy prog-rock player.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby Arkansas » Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:58 am

jrnyman28 wrote: ... But so so doubtful that Smitty would want to rejoin this world touring rigor.


Wouldn't surprise me at all to see SS take some time off from the jazz thing...to shore-up the bank account a little bit. I mean, why not? Vital Information & clinics he loves, but it probably gets a little stale at times, not to mention much less lucrative.

Schon would throw some bucks at him. Cain would approve (but secretly wonder if it's worth it). And, they could hype it all with the 4/5ths thing, which in turn, would once again fan the flames of "where's Perry" & maybe sell a few more catalog albums. Who knows where it would go.

Not to over-think this, but SS might be inspirational too. I'm sure during downtime or sound checks, he'd be tapping away on something, or using his jazz repertoire as a warm up. NS would start a new riff, then JC would join in with some syncopated piano thing, and the next thing ya know we hear comments about writing new material. Or ya know at the very least, we might hear something from the The Calling @ sound check. I dunno...just kinda fun to think about.


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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby JohnH » Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:18 am

If Smith came back that would be awesome !!
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby Journey/Survivor » Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:30 pm

I'm still hoping that Deen is innocent of the rape charge, and can overcome the drug problem, and eventually return to the band.

If he's not able to, then I hope that they can get Smith to return to the band. He's my number one favorite drummer of all time, anyway.

Besides probably making more money on tour with Journey, another reason that I can see Smith returning to the band is this....

Steve Smith has nothing more to prove in the Jazz world. Everyone knows that he's one of the greatest Jazz drummers ever, very possibly thee greatest ever. I think it would be good for Smith's legacy if he'd return to the Rock world for a few years. On the Rock forums you always see all of the talk about Neil Peart, John Bonham, Keith Moon, etc, etc. You almost never hear about Steve Smith on Rock drumming forums that aren't Journey related. And yet, in my opinion, Steve Smith blows all of them away.

In terms of legacy, I think Smith should hook up with Journey or some other classic Rock band for a few years, and maybe do more sessions work with guys like Neal Schon, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Tony MacAlpine, etc, etc. That would help his legacy among people who are into Rock music and not familiar with Jazz.

Then after a few years he could go back to the Jazz again.

Also, even though Jazz is his first love, I would think that it would be a little more exciting to do the Rock thing for a change of pace for a few years. Especially knowing that he will return to Jazz again in a few years.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby jrnyman28 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:29 pm

I just cannot see Smitty as anything long term...and Journey needs someone who can finish out the run. Then again, maybe Smitty's return would facilitate Journey's end cycle.....maybe capped with RNRHOShame induction and one off reunion with Perry.

Shit. Get Smitty back in PRONTO!
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby Archetype » Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:50 pm

It seems really unlikely that Todd Sucherman would do it. The Styx/Dennis debacle seemed to peeve him a lot, and that's pretty petty compared to the Cain/Schon passive aggressiveness, endless TMZ style media reports attached to Journey, and obviously now recently, Deen's situation and the inevitable fallout from it. I think that Todd is way more mentally and socially at home with Styx.

Mike Portnoy is a huge Journey fan, and he's been filling in with a lot of bands since leaving Dream Theater in 2010. That would be interesting, but he's currently with Twisted Sister.

Most likely scenario to me is that Omar gets picked up full-time.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby JRNYMAN » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:01 am

I can see this "event" as being the turning point that finally reunites the epic, stadium-filling incarnation of the band.
No one is more concerned and protective of the brand than Perry. Knowing the band's exodus from all the things that have kept them visible and current is not too far down the road, it's not too far of a stretch to imagine Perry's concern for the brand's retirement with the current scandal overshadowing any kind of warm and fuzzy retirement tour.
I can realistically see SS and SP reuniting for one last album followed by a farewell tour. It would serve numerous purposes. To list a few...
It would help to somewhat squelch the badmouthing and negative karma that is and will surround the band with Deen's situation.
It would instantly silence all the "Journey's not Journey without Steve Perry" parrots.
It would go down in history as THE ultimate reunion of a rock band - or any other band for that matter.
It would undoubtedly be the highest grossing tour for the band ever!
And probably the most important reason for the reunion would be a restoration of the brand's overall acceptance, reputation and respect.

Steve Smith is the obvious choice to take the seat. No-one, no-one would or could fill the position better than he can. The question becomes just how badly they need the high harmonies performed live.
Should SP, NS, and JC come to some form of agreement for this reunion, I can't see SS refusing the offer to help the band retire the way they should.
However, I can only see this coming to fruition if it was for a one-time only type of thing (album and farewell tour to follow). I can't even imagine this reunion taking place for any other reason i.e., long term. etc.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:38 am

JRNYMAN wrote:I can see this "event" as being the turning point that finally reunites the epic, stadium-filling incarnation of the band.
No one is more concerned and protective of the brand than Perry.

If there was a turning point, it was losing Augeri and needing a vocalist. At that time, Perry remained in hiding. You think Perry cares that Deen was accused of rape? Think again. Tabloid fodder scandals like this only make him and his time with the band look better.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby JRNYMAN » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:43 am

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
JRNYMAN wrote:I can see this "event" as being the turning point that finally reunites the epic, stadium-filling incarnation of the band.
No one is more concerned and protective of the brand than Perry.

If there was a turning point, it was losing Augeri and needing a vocalist. At that time, Perry remained in hiding. You think Perry cares that Deen was accused of rape? Think again. Tabloid fodder scandals like this only make him and his time with the band look better.

I absolutely don't think he gives a shit about Deen. I do think he cares about the legacy of the band and the brand which is why I think he would consider coming out of obscurity to do damage control.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby The_Noble_Cause » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:22 am

JRNYMAN wrote: I do think he cares about the legacy of the band and the brand which is why I think he would consider coming out of obscurity to do damage control.

Riiight. Perry singing a few shows sounding like shit is going to save the brand somehow? Sounds like major wishful thinking on your part. The brand is and will continue to be fine. Deen is accused of rape, not Journey.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby JohnH » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:36 am

Let's stay on topic. I can't believe Perry is being dragged into this. Not happening even as a solo act.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby annpea » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:48 pm

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
JRNYMAN wrote: I do think he cares about the legacy of the band and the brand which is why I think he would consider coming out of obscurity to do damage control.

Riiight. Perry singing a few shows sounding like shit is going to save the brand somehow? Sounds like major wishful thinking on your part. The brand is and will continue to be fine. Deen is accused of rape, not Journey.

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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby Archetype » Mon Jul 06, 2015 3:53 am

My top picks:

Omar Hakim (obvious)
Mike Portnoy (way overqualified, but has a lot of prestige and could bring in songwriting ability as well)
Tom Sharpe (recently left Dennis DeYoung's band, superbly talented and great music writing ability as well)
Jimmy DeGrasso (would bring the same type of high-intensity drumming as Deen with more than enough technical capability)
Steve Smith (last pick due to the simple unlikelihood of it)

But ultimately, I want to see Deen back behind the kit with Journey. That's my first pick.
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby Art Vandelay » Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:44 pm

Journey/Survivor wrote:I'm still hoping that Deen is innocent of the rape charge, and can overcome the drug problem, and eventually return to the band.

If he's not able to, then I hope that they can get Smith to return to the band. He's my number one favorite drummer of all time, anyway.

Besides probably making more money on tour with Journey, another reason that I can see Smith returning to the band is this....

Steve Smith has nothing more to prove in the Jazz world. Everyone knows that he's one of the greatest Jazz drummers ever, very possibly thee greatest ever. I think it would be good for Smith's legacy if he'd return to the Rock world for a few years. On the Rock forums you always see all of the talk about Neil Peart, John Bonham, Keith Moon, etc, etc. You almost never hear about Steve Smith on Rock drumming forums that aren't Journey related. And yet, in my opinion, Steve Smith blows all of them away.

In terms of legacy, I think Smith should hook up with Journey or some other classic Rock band for a few years, and maybe do more sessions work with guys like Neal Schon, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Tony MacAlpine, etc, etc. That would help his legacy among people who are into Rock music and not familiar with Jazz.

Then after a few years he could go back to the Jazz again.

Also, even though Jazz is his first love, I would think that it would be a little more exciting to do the Rock thing for a change of pace for a few years. Especially knowing that he will return to Jazz again in a few years.


Here is Smith's current tour schedule. He's booked solid through November. He ain't coming back to Journey any time soon.
http://www.vitalinformation.com/tour.htm
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Re: Tito’s Top 5 Permanent Replacements for Our Friend, Deen

Postby Journey/Survivor » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:13 pm

Art Vandelay wrote:
Journey/Survivor wrote:I'm still hoping that Deen is innocent of the rape charge, and can overcome the drug problem, and eventually return to the band.

If he's not able to, then I hope that they can get Smith to return to the band. He's my number one favorite drummer of all time, anyway.

Besides probably making more money on tour with Journey, another reason that I can see Smith returning to the band is this....

Steve Smith has nothing more to prove in the Jazz world. Everyone knows that he's one of the greatest Jazz drummers ever, very possibly thee greatest ever. I think it would be good for Smith's legacy if he'd return to the Rock world for a few years. On the Rock forums you always see all of the talk about Neil Peart, John Bonham, Keith Moon, etc, etc. You almost never hear about Steve Smith on Rock drumming forums that aren't Journey related. And yet, in my opinion, Steve Smith blows all of them away.

In terms of legacy, I think Smith should hook up with Journey or some other classic Rock band for a few years, and maybe do more sessions work with guys like Neal Schon, Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, Tony MacAlpine, etc, etc. That would help his legacy among people who are into Rock music and not familiar with Jazz.

Then after a few years he could go back to the Jazz again.

Also, even though Jazz is his first love, I would think that it would be a little more exciting to do the Rock thing for a change of pace for a few years. Especially knowing that he will return to Jazz again in a few years.


Here is Smith's current tour schedule. He's booked solid through November. He ain't coming back to Journey any time soon.
http://www.vitalinformation.com/tour.htm


Yes, I was aware that Smith is booked through the summer and fall.

I'm just saying what I think he SHOULD do for a few years once the current schedule is through. Not that I expect him to do it.
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