MR

Rock & Metal Combat Podcast

Episode Sixty Three Former Vinnie Vincent Invasion Singer Robert Fleischman

http://wadzilla74.podbean.com/e/episode ... leischman/

- talks Journey at 33.30 -

He does confirm that it was Herbie insisting he drop his manager that was part of the reason they dropped him. New insight on Herbie getting an offer he couldn't refuse from CBS..... And that is how careers are made and lost in the music business!!

Interesting listen. I often find Fleischman's accounts of his tenure with Journey a reach - as if he's trying to make more of it than it actually was. But this was enlightening. That said, if the band had really settled on Fleischman and it was only Herbie's "can't refuse" offer from CBS that brought in Perry, I'm left wondering why they didn't turn back to him in '98 and/or in '06.

FamilyMan wrote:Interesting listen. I often find Fleischman's accounts of his tenure with Journey a reach - as if he's trying to make more of it than it actually was. But this was enlightening. That said, if the band had really settled on Fleischman and it was only Herbie's "can't refuse" offer from CBS that brought in Perry, I'm left wondering why they didn't turn back to him in '98 and/or in '06.

I agree with FM. Easy to embellish on an event that happened years ago. Every interviewee does it, I suppose, skewing the facts to favor oneself. I mean, who's going to come back and contradict the story?

Everybody probably would agree a certain amount of luck is involved to have a real successful career in the business. I'm sure there are a lot of good, maybe even great, singers that never became well known. But, I have seen/heard the yt clips of RF w/Journey, and I honestly don't think Journey would be half as successful if he had stayed in the band as their lead singer. Who thinks otherwise, please speak up. It's all conjecture, of course, but let's hear the counterpoints?

annie89509 wrote:Everybody probably would agree a certain amount of luck is involved to have a real successful career in the business. I'm sure there are a lot of good, maybe even great, singers that never became well known. But, I have seen/heard the yt clips of RF w/Journey, and I honestly don't think Journey would be half as successful if he had stayed in the band as their lead singer. Who thinks otherwise, please speak up. It's all conjecture, of course, but let's hear the counterpoints?

I will give it a shot. This is just my guess, and may or may not have happened. With Robert Fleischman, Journey would have been a more hard rocking band. Remember that Steve Perry brought his voice, but also brought his phrasing and ability to turn a good song into a great song. So, With Fleischman, the band would have rocked out. They would have still toured like crazy, and Neal would have loved how they rocked out every show. They would be popular with men, but not with women. So, overall, not as popular as they were with Steve Perry. Then Gregg Rolie retires in 1980, and Jonathan Cain comes in and management forces Open Arms on the band which Robert Fleischman turns into a hard rocking song. So overall, we would have lost all the great Journey songs with Steve Perry, but Neal being content rocking with Journey on every song, we would have also lost all Neal's solo projects including Hardline and Soul Sircus. Thus, we are lucky that things turned out the way they did.

JH, I’m not sure if that was a counter-argument or you’re agreeing with me that Journey was better off with SP. (lol)

A lot seems to be made, revealed from these new round of interviews with RF, that he somehow was a major songwriter (actually, just writing credit with 2-3 others) WITS, WOM, Anytime. But, my god, Steve made those songs sound better than what Robert could have done. We do have a point of comparison… the videos of Robert singing these 3 songs on yt. Reading the comments sections, lots of delusional RF fans saying he got jobbed. (smh)

So they’re pointing to 3 songs (and For You) that RF had a hand in writing, when SP wrote or co-wrote 99% of all Journey songs during his tenure. No way I can find the piece or post a link, but I remember back in 2005 (right after the HWOF) at a Journey concert, Robert was there and talking with a writer. He was asked what HH said about him in the Castles Burning interview, calling him “difficult to work with” and “a poodle.” To be clear, HH had something bad to say about every band member not named NS or GR. Wait, he did say Neal “is not the sharpest tool in the kitchen” (lol). But, Gregg was perfect!

IIRC, Robert’s response then was he didn’t understand the “difficult” part, that he got along great with everybody. He did say that there might have been impatience with his songwriting, band members were giving him stuff, kept coming back to ask if he had done anything with it, and acknowledged a slowness in meeting the demand for songs.

In the same Castles Burning interview (which after reading the 1st time, with it’s venom, never wanting to read again), I think HH paid his 1 and only compliment to SP … that he was a prolific, and great songwriter.

So, with those 2 tidbits, we could easily see another contrast between the 2 guys (not just their vocal style)…and HH made the right choice.

Fleischman was your typical screamer as a singer, IMO.

Journey would have been a run-of-the-mill rock band with him.

Perry makes all the difference in the world here.

It'd be like Queen without Freddy Mercury. They're still a hell of a band. More talented overall than Journey, IMO. All 3 of the other guys can really, really sing. That's where those vocals on Bohemian Rhapsody come from...it's not a bunch of overlaid Freddy.

But without Freddy....it's just not Queen. And without Perry, it would have never been Journey...not the one we know today.

Freddy made Queen unique. Special. He had "it"...whatever "it" is. So did Perry. So did DLR with Van Halen. So did Robert Plant. Daltrey. Etc.

Put Sammy Hagar with Van Halen before they got a deal, and they'd probably be Sammy Hagar solo with an awesome guitarist. Not the VH we know.

The Who without Daltrey. Really? Aerosmith without Tyler. Crue without Vince. All great players...but they were great bands TOGETHER. They were just great musicians without each other.

Pacfanweb wrote:It'd be like Queen without Freddy Mercury. They're still a hell of a band. More talented overall than Journey, IMO. All 3 of the other guys can really, really sing. That's where those vocals on Bohemian Rhapsody come from...it's not a bunch of overlaid Freddy.

I don't know about this. Get Gregg Rolie back in the band and Journey can harmonize. HH said the last tour with Gregg Rolie had the best harmonies ever; even better than the Eagles!

JourneyHard wrote:

Pacfanweb wrote:It'd be like Queen without Freddy Mercury. They're still a hell of a band. More talented overall than Journey, IMO. All 3 of the other guys can really, really sing. That's where those vocals on Bohemian Rhapsody come from...it's not a bunch of overlaid Freddy.

I don't know about this. Get Gregg Rolie back in the band and Journey can harmonize. HH said the last tour with Gregg Rolie had the best harmonies ever; even better than the Eagles!

I don't know about better than the Eagles, but Gregg and Steve's voices together were magic, something that hasn't been replaced with any other voices in the band. No going back to those days, unfortunately, but at least we have the albums and videos to remind us.