MR

Steve Smith ‏@stevesmithdrums

Photo shoot day @JourneyOfficial @arnelpineda @NealSchonMusic @RossValory #JonCain

Great to see the guys all together!!

Wow!! I'd be surprised if he said yes, but that would be something to look forward to!!

tater1977 wrote:https://www.facebook.com/journey

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FUCK YES!!!!

Pretty cool that Neal is talking to Shirley. But do they have material ready to record?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Pretty cool that Neal is talking to Shirley. But do they have material ready to record?

Oh man. This would make my year!

Why do their photo shoots always look like they're in war-torn Yugoslavia? San Francisco is one of the most beautiful cities in the world...

FamilyMan wrote:Why do their photo shoots always look like they're in war-torn Yugoslavia? San Francisco is one of the most beautiful cities in the world...

HOOOOH!

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Pretty cool that Neal is talking to Shirley. But do they have material ready to record?

Neal is endlessly prolific. His well never seems to run dry and he never gets tired of working. I think he always has little melodies churning in his head. Little riffs and pieces of instrumentals are a great source of inspiration for the writing process, and now with Smitty back in the mix, I think they'll be on fire. Neal spoke of his process with Smitty on Vortex and Smitty really brings a musical element to his playing. He figures out structure and that has a huge impact on everything.

The question mark (for me) is Jon. He is a great song writer, but his inspiration has been overrun by his spirituality of late. I'm hoping he can set that stuff aside and write about relationships like he used to. That stuff is universal.

I'm also hoping they get back to including more cinematic songs (i.e. Who's Crying Now, Live and Breath, Send Her My Love, Troubled Child, Kiss Me Softly, We Will Meet Again). That's the stuff I like the most from Jon and he seems to have walked away from it. Fingers crossed --

STORY_TELLER wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Pretty cool that Neal is talking to Shirley. But do they have material ready to record?

Neal is endlessly prolific. His well never seems to run dry and he never gets tired of working. I think he always has little melodies churning in his head. Little riffs and pieces of instrumentals are a great source of inspiration for the writing process, and now with Smitty back in the mix, I think they'll be on fire. Neal spoke of his process with Smitty on Vortex and Smitty really brings a musical element to his playing. He figures out structure and that has a huge impact on everything.

The question mark (for me) is Jon. He is a great song writer, but his inspiration has been overrun by his spirituality of late. I'm hoping he can set that stuff aside and write about relationships like he used to. That stuff is universal.

I'm also hoping they get back to including more cinematic songs (i.e. Who's Crying Now, Live and Breath, Send Her My Love, Troubled Child, Kiss Me Softly, We Will Meet Again). That's the stuff I like the most from Jon and he seems to have walked away from it. Fingers crossed --

https://www.instagram.com/p/BCmDoSbuQws/
jonathancainmusic Excited, after a great, first day of rehearsal! Journey tour will soar this year- reunited with our brother and stellar drummer, Steve Smith.

- Jon is also recording in April his new worship album and Deen C is on the drums.

Great pics! Thanks, Tater. Great to see them all together like this AND appearing to have a good time. And Kevin Shirley in the mix? Can't wait to see how it all plays out.

STORY_TELLER wrote:The question mark (for me) is Jon. He is a great song writer, but his inspiration has been overrun by his spirituality of late. I'm hoping he can set that stuff aside and write about relationships like he used to. That stuff is universal.

It's interesting, because Eclipse was a spiritual album in a non-denominational, New Age sorta way. Lyrically, it reminds me of "Colors of the Spirit" from TBF. Now Jon has dived headfirst into Jesusland. Which is fine. He seems genuinely happy and inspired. I would recommend that Neal collaborate on some new Journey tunes with Jack Blades and JSS. Two great writers and artists. Just my $0.02.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:The question mark (for me) is Jon. He is a great song writer, but his inspiration has been overrun by his spirituality of late. I'm hoping he can set that stuff aside and write about relationships like he used to. That stuff is universal.

It's interesting, because Eclipse was a spiritual album in a non-denominational, New Age sorta way. Lyrically, it reminds me of "Colors of the Spirit" from TBF. Now Jon has dived headfirst into Jesusland. Which is fine. He seems genuinely happy and inspired. I would recommend that Neal collaborate on some new Journey tunes with Jack Blades and JSS. Two great writers and artists. Just my $0.02.

I was fine with the choices in TBF, but I think he went off the deep end on Eclipse. That deep end is one of the turn off points for me in Eclipse. It was too "on the nose". Jon's lyrics have become too matter of fact. I prefer when he simplified and used metaphors. Even though it was non-denominational, I still felt like I was listening to a preacher. Not detracting from Jon's spirituality. I'm a spiritual guy myself, but I don't want to hear it in my Journey music. Journey is not nor should they be Stryper, lol...

I loved a great deal of what Neal was doing. Not everything. There was a lot to like there, but I think he should have listened to KS on some of it. The guitar riff for City of Hope kicked serious ass. I still love how it opens, but the vocal melody and lyrics killed it for me.

Someone is a killer tune. My favorite on the album and it's in rotation of my playlist.

I know what Neal was going for on she's a mystery, but looking for that lingering "feel" usually becomes very repetitive and repetition is death for anything creative (be it music or story writing). It took too long to get somewhere.

I flat out HATE Tantra. It sounds like it belongs on a theater stage, in a bad way. There's great moments in it, but then I hear the lyrics and I cringe.

Human feel is unique. Great instrumentals, great melody, and Deen FINALLY put down a groove that fit the band's sound (IMO) -- but the lyrics are an example of what I mean by Jon being too on the nose and it comes off preachy (to me). He's capable of finding a more artful way to say what he was trying to say without sounding like he's sending a message.


No way Neal and Jeff ever work together again. Too much bad blood. Jack Blades is a maybe for me. I like some of what they did together on SO U but not everything worked IMO.

I think they should get Gregg Rollie back into the mix on the new album. A hybrid of Jon's pop sensibilities and Gregg's blues groove with Smitty in the mix would be a tremendous bookend to their catalog.

That's my 2 cents....

tater1977 wrote:https://www.instagram.com/p/BCmDoSbuQws/
jonathancainmusic Excited, after a great, first day of rehearsal! Journey tour will soar this year- reunited with our brother and stellar drummer, Steve Smith.

- Jon is also recording in April his new worship album and Deen C is on the drums.

Thanks Tater! Sounds like Smitty has Jon recharged to make new Journey music. Very cool!

STORY_TELLER wrote:I was fine with the choices in TBF, but I think he went off the deep end on Eclipse. That deep end is one of the turn off points for me in Eclipse. It was too "on the nose". Jon's lyrics have become too matter of fact.

TBF was not a concept album. The material on Eclipse was written to be lyrically and thematically connected. Cain said he was inspired by Wayne Dyer's New Agey book "Power of Intention", which is about an invisible forcefield that unites humanity. It shows in Cain's Deepak Chopra-ish wannabe lyrics....

"Connecting us all, A network of love to answer the call"...."An endless circle beyond space and time"...."Across the universe, the same force that moves the Earth."

By and large, TBF is a traditional Journey album with love songs. Same with Arrival and Revelation. I don't think Jon has any problem getting in that head-space and writing traditional tunes. Eclipse was just conceived to be different.

I was just thinking...If the J boys want to record a new album with Smith, but Cain is the only hold out, why not bring in outside keyboardists and songwriters to make the album? Cain could always learn some of the new songs if he still wanted to keep his touring job and everyone gets to be happy. I do think they need to do something similar to Revelation, however, and do more of Adult Contemporary type of material Cain would want to do if they want the album to be successful in terms sales, singles, or radio play. First, these are the types of songs that Arnel is most passionate about and that translates into better vocal performances. Second, the only markets that exists for Journey are Classic Rock, which doesn't generally support new material from classic acts, or AC, where they actually did have a hit with After All these Years. The Revelation album seemed to have the best of both worlds, in my opinion. It had the classic Journey sound, and had some songs with AC sensibilities and appeal. I think some of the songs would have been better if Arnel had been more seasoned at that time and there are some moments where is voices seems just a tad fatigued and over reaching, which it was. Now he has got the years under his belt, if they did another album in that vein and took the time to get it right, despite Neal's tendency to rush it out without overthinking it, they could have a major success on their hands, especially with some outside writers. Cain is a great writer, but lately he has been repeating himself so outside influences my get them past that.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

STORY_TELLER wrote:I was fine with the choices in TBF, but I think he went off the deep end on Eclipse. That deep end is one of the turn off points for me in Eclipse. It was too "on the nose". Jon's lyrics have become too matter of fact.

TBF was not a concept album. The material on Eclipse was written to be lyrically and thematically connected.

Oh I know all that. My issue isn't that they chose to make a concept album, it's the concept they chose as the theme that bugs me and I don't think it worked.

The Who did Tommy. Pink Floyd did The Wall. Queensryche Operation Mind Crime. Great concepts, great albums and there's lots more by other bands. You know what they have in common? They tell a story. Most great songs do. Eclipse was more of a theme, and it was a preachy spiritual one at that. Sorry, bad choice. Toss some different lyrics and melodies over those tremendous instrumentals and I think it would have been a much stronger result.

Another place I think it went wrong: Listening to songs like Resonate, Chain of Love and Edge of the Moment, I got the feeling JC had a hard time figuring out to do with Neal's guitar. It's like he was talking a different language. I also didn't think Arnel's vocal character was right for those songs. My feeling is they should have let Deen handle those. His gruff would have been a good fit for the character of those instrumentals.

Things that might have been, eh? Anyway... I digress.

Very excited for the possibilities of the new material. I hope JC and Neal really dig down deep for it on the writing side.

And again, just my 2 cents.

Majestic wrote:I was just thinking...If the J boys want to record a new album with Smith, but Cain is the only hold out...

If they're talking with KS about recording, I don't think Cain is still holding out. Pretty sure Smitty's return has lit a fire under him and he's on board.

If Journey did need a keyboardist/lyricist to replace Cain, then Jim Peterik would be the best possible option. Although, I'd love to see Rolie return to the band.

If Cain was unwilling to write and record for Journey, but he was willing to continue to tour, then I'm sure that Peterik would be willing to write and record with Journey without touring with them.

Journey/Survivor wrote:If Journey did need a keyboardist/lyricist to replace Cain, then Jim Peterik would be the best possible option. Although, I'd love to see Rolie return to the band.

If Cain was unwilling to write and record for Journey, but he was willing to continue to tour, then I'm sure that Peterik would be willing to write and record with Journey without touring with them.

I think if Rolie were one of the writers or did some recording it would be great but I don't know if he can cover all of Cain's material live so better keep Cain on the road.

What don't you think Rolie couldn't cover live. Outside of Cain's piano solo, there is nothing in the songs themselves that Gregg couldn't cover. It would be nice to have them both. One thing though, Friga can play second guitar live to fill out the sound on certain songs. I don't think Gregg plays guitar?

I love Eclipse, but I still think Steve Perry could have taken off some of the edges and made Eclipse even better.

For the new album, they need to do what they always did. Write great songs that rock and great ballads. It isn't rocket science.

JourneyHard wrote:
For the new album, they need to do what they always did. Write great songs that rock and great ballads. It isn't rocket science.

It's not rocket science, but like rockets, eventually they all run out of fuel.

WalrusOct9 wrote:

JourneyHard wrote:
For the new album, they need to do what they always did. Write great songs that rock and great ballads. It isn't rocket science.

It's not rocket science, but like rockets, eventually they all run out of fuel.

Both Cain and Schon remain fairly prolific outside of Journey, so I'm not sure they are running on empty. Neal is always cooking up something. For a new album, 1-3 ballads should be the max.

Interesting there is not one mention of Arnel's contribution here on this thread. I'm not sure he's involved in the songwriting process at all. But when Journey was at its best (Departure, Escape, Frontiers), you had a songwriting core that consisted of a any combination of the following: Perry, Cain, Rolie, Schon...sitting in a room together jamming and writing. With the band so scattered now in terms of their pet projects - let alone their their geography - I'm not sure how much of that will ever go on. They're a live act now, first and foremost. And new material squeaks into the set. So frankly, if they never write another new song, I'm fine with it. I'm seeing Billy Joel tonight -- who's not recorded a new song in decades.

FamilyMan wrote:Interesting there is not one mention of Arnel's contribution here on this thread. I'm not sure he's involved in the songwriting process at all. But when Journey was at its best (Departure, Escape, Frontiers), you had a songwriting core that consisted of a any combination of the following: Perry, Cain, Rolie, Schon...sitting in a room together jamming and writing. With the band so scattered now in terms of their pet projects - let alone their their geography - I'm not sure how much of that will ever go on. They're a live act now, first and foremost. And new material squeaks into the set. So frankly, if they never write another new song, I'm fine with it. I'm seeing Billy Joel tonight -- who's not recorded a new song in decades.

It's not compelling for me to follow a band who is not creating new music.

Would love to hear a new album with Steve drumming on it. There is just something different about Journey music with Steve Smith present. I could picture another "Frontiers" like album with this lineup. I think Eclipse was on the right path, but for me, it was always just very unpolished, just very awkward sounding album. But I think with Smith in there, he might be the missing ingredient.

FamilyMan wrote:Interesting there is not one mention of Arnel's contribution here on this thread.

With the exception of "To Whom It May Concern" Arnel does not have many Journey writing credits. Revelation was already written before he was hired. After Eclipse, Neal mentioned once on FB that he and Arnel were writing new Journey tunes. Even with Augeri, the songwriting core primarily remained Cain/Schon. JSS probably would have changed that dynamic considerably. But I don't find this "interesting" at all really. Arnel was hired because of his high tenor voice and not because he is the Bernie Taupin of Manilla or something,