MR

Is it just my perception from YouTube videos of the recent shows, or does the band seem extremely disinterested & stale these days?

Arnel really seems to be trying, but songs like Separate Ways seemed so...blah!

Steve Smith, in particular, seems like he doesn't want to be there & is barely getting into the songs.

I mean, if that's how they are on the 1st show of a massive touring year, in which they welcome back their classic drummer & play a historic venue for the 1st time, I'm worried.

Was anybody actually at any of the shows? Please tell me that it's just the way it's coming across online.

I haven't seen a show yet, so can't comment on that. But Smith's style has changed significantly over the past 30 years. Much more laid back. Even his wardrobe. In one video I saw he was wearing a button down collared shirt, like he was headed to the country club after the show. Compared to Deen, who always looked like he just stepped away from a biker bar for a few minutes to pound the skins and was going back when he was done. .

I love Smith's playing, but if you are looking for an "Animal from the Muppets" type of player, Smith isn't going to be it. As for Jon, his appearance of disinterest has been discussed for several years. Ross frequently looks like he's going to try out for Weekend at Bernie's VI, and Neal seems to me like he's working too hard to show he's into it. Like he knows that Arnel is the only energy on stage and he is trying to figure out how to make up for the other guys' lack of it.

Not complaining, just observation. 4 of the 5 guys are in their 60s. They all have been doing this for 40+ years. Playing the same songs for the past 30, with the exception of Smith. Masses leave when they play anything different. It's got to be a challenge to get excited about it night after night.

Still, we should be glad that we can go see them live and appreciate it if we think it's worth it. As the Eagles found out in January, after that many years it can all come to a sudden stop.

From what I have seen, with Smitty's presence, the band is more animated than usual. I think Cain even broke a smile in some of the clips. I am more concerned about Arnel's voice. Everytime he goes for a high note they drown it in reverb.

I guess the real question is why was Smith brought back into the band? Was it for his creative input, or was it to just keep the band afloat for another summer jukebox tour with a little Nostalgia thrown in? My guess would be the latter.

Art Vandelay wrote:I guess the real question is why was Smith brought back into the band? Was it for his creative input, or was it to just keep the band afloat for another summer jukebox tour with a little Nostalgia thrown in? My guess would be the latter.

Deen created a PR nightmare for himself and the band. Plus, the band and fans (including Deen himself) have always wanted Smitty behind the kit. It's a no brainer.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote:I guess the real question is why was Smith brought back into the band? Was it for his creative input, or was it to just keep the band afloat for another summer jukebox tour with a little Nostalgia thrown in? My guess would be the latter.

Deen created a PR nightmare for himself and the band. Plus, the band and fans (including Deen himself) have always wanted Smitty behind the kit. It's a no brainer.

Smitty is not a long term commitment, just this tour, as I understand it and maybe next. I think, in time, the longer Deen stays clean, the better chances the issue blows over. I wouldn't be surprised if Deen was back in the band in a year or so. Things are always permanent, until they're not. Remember when hell froze over?

steveo777 wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote:I guess the real question is why was Smith brought back into the band? Was it for his creative input, or was it to just keep the band afloat for another summer jukebox tour with a little Nostalgia thrown in? My guess would be the latter.

Deen created a PR nightmare for himself and the band. Plus, the band and fans (including Deen himself) have always wanted Smitty behind the kit. It's a no brainer.

Smitty is not a long term commitment, just this tour, as I understand it and maybe next. I think, in time, the longer Deen stays clean, the better chances the issue blows over. I wouldn't be surprised if Deen was back in the band in a year or so. Things are always permanent, until they're not. Remember when hell froze over?

I don't see it happening. Deen has had multiple chances over the years with the band. Jon seems disinterested. This go around could be it. Either way, if Deen is serious about staying clean, back on the road with any band is a huge risk.

It would also be a huge risk for the band. These guys have worked way too hard for way too long to risk the final chapter being about your drummer falling off the wagon again. They don't have another 20 years of touring left to write an "everything works out in the end" sequel to that kind of damage to the brand. They dodged a bullet this time, I can't imagining them stepping in front of the gun again.

RumTumJM wrote:Is it just my perception from YouTube videos of the recent shows, or does the band seem extremely disinterested & stale these days?

Arnel really seems to be trying, but songs like Separate Ways seemed so...blah!

Steve Smith, in particular, seems like he doesn't want to be there & is barely getting into the songs.

I mean, if that's how they are on the 1st show of a massive touring year, in which they welcome back their classic drummer & play a historic venue for the 1st time, I'm worried.

Was anybody actually at any of the shows? Please tell me that it's just the way it's coming across online.

I got the same vibes, in looking at the YT videos. Feels kind of a letdown, after the excitement of news that Smitty rejoined the band for a tour.

Arnel is the only guy up there showing any kind of energy.

But, just like all us aging old folks, we have to realize these old guys have slowed down considerably, too. Sucks to still have those dynamic performances of the ‘80s ingrained in our heads. Just as well we never see SP back, I guess.

annie89509 wrote:

RumTumJM wrote:Is it just my perception from YouTube videos of the recent shows, or does the band seem extremely disinterested & stale these days?

Arnel really seems to be trying, but songs like Separate Ways seemed so...blah!

Steve Smith, in particular, seems like he doesn't want to be there & is barely getting into the songs.

I mean, if that's how they are on the 1st show of a massive touring year, in which they welcome back their classic drummer & play a historic venue for the 1st time, I'm worried.

Was anybody actually at any of the shows? Please tell me that it's just the way it's coming across online.

I got the same vibes, in looking at the YT videos. Feels kind of a letdown, after the excitement of news that Smitty rejoined the band for a tour.

Arnel is the only guy up there showing any kind of energy.

But, just like all us aging old folks, we have to realize these old guys have slowed down considerably, too. Sucks to still have those dynamic performances of the ‘80s ingrained in our heads. Just as well we never see SP back, I guess.

Were people really thinking that the band would pick up where it left off in '83, with Smith back in the fold? Like I said, he rejoined at a point where the live shows are very formulated and structured. They needed a drummer to get them through the gigs, and Smith is the guy they hired. Very cool for nostalgic reasons, but there's no real room for him to bring anything new or incredibly creative to the table. Plus, he's not 'that drummer' any longer. Hasn't been for over 25 years now. He even admitted last month that he had forgotten all of the songs and had to re-learn them, so I doubt that playing again with Journey was on his 'bucket list.'

IF (and I say that very lightly) Perry were to ever join with them again, the entire performance would need to be restructured. Not just to balance with his current vocals, but to make it interesting and successful, and not just nostalgic. Otherwise, Arnel could better handle the vocals as they are now.

Mohegan Sun show was awesome

I went to both MSG and Mohegan Sun and they were great shows! I'd love to see a Santana/Journey tour. The only thing that irritated me was Rolie not playing with Journey. I heard this was due to Cain! I hope they resolve this before the ATT show and 2017!

I saw more interaction and more smiles from all the Journey members at these shows!

I got a different vibe in regards to Smitty when I watched the YT videos. I thought he was most definitely in it and having fun. I kind of think the rock stuff is probably not as challenging as the jazz stuff - then again, I'm not a drummer so I don't know that for sure. However, he seemed like he was having a lot of fun with it and that he was making it look pretty easy. I definitely heard more of that classic "Journey" vibe with Smith's drumming.

Arnel really seems to be struggling in these videos. He still sounds OK, but it's nothing like it was 8 years ago. Wow, I have to let that sink in. It's been about 8 years ago since Revelation was released. Where does the time go? I have to admit, I wasn't a very big Arnel Pineda fan in the early going. I always thought he had a great voice, but I was always hard on him with the diction issues. I have to admit, Journey being an "American" band, I wanted the singer to sound "American" as well, and I have to admit, Pineda wasn't "American" enough for me. I couldn't see past that to realize how great of a singer he was/is. I always knew he was a great guy, even though I've never met him personally. But, I never gave him enough credit. It wasn't until I went back and watched some video from around 2008 (Might have been the DVD that came with Revelation, but it was on You Tube), that I realized why Schon went with this guy. What an amazing voice he had. It most definitely fitted in with the Journey classic sound. I was just too stubborn to see that. Luckily, time kind of wears on ya after awhile and you eventually start to see things through a different perspective. Now that I see Arnel struggling, it makes me kind of sad that the resurgence he put in this band has probably ran its course. Like what someone else said in an earlier post, he's starting to sound like Steve Perry did with the "toast" talk.

As for the rest of the band, I see Schon still having fun, but I think part of that is because he knows the Santana gig is going to be hitting on all cylinders, and I wouldn't doubt if he doesn't put Journey on the back burner and concentrate on Santana for the next couple of years. It's probably at the right time to do so. I would be very surprised if Journey makes another album anytime soon, and I could see them disband in the next couple of years. I hate to hear that, because I feel like so much of the melodic rock genre is tied to the success or failure of Journey. If there is no more Journey, honestly, what band would come close to carrying the melodic rock flag on into the future? No offense to bands like Styx or REO Speedwagon, but let's face it, a lot of these bands get their influences from Journey. As long as there is an active Journey, there's an active melodic rock genre - even if it might be on life support. Without Journey, I fear of what would happen with the rest of AOR?

On a lighter note, well, maybe not lighter, looks like Cain has been enjoying a lot of good Nashville food! I can't say much myself, but I just noticed a belly on Cain.

Judging from this clip, I think the band is doing just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiifNJI-nHM

Ok, those with decent eyesight ... what's Neal doing at 2:08 ?
And Ross at 1.56 ?
Can't decide if that's a camera on the pole, which
Smitty is recording his performance or what ....
and RV and NS messing with the camera ...

Steve Smith Drum Solo with Journey

https://youtu.be/Gvs4y1DkXds

tater1977 wrote:Ok, those with decent eyesight ... what's Neal doing at 2:08 ?
And Ross at 1.56 ?
Can't decide if that's a camera on the pole, which
Smitty is recording his performance or what ....
and RV and NS messing with the camera ...

Steve Smith Drum Solo with Journey

https://youtu.be/Gvs4y1DkXds

Those are cameras. Probably for the display monitor to show closeups of smitty during the concert. Could be recording as well, but I'm guessing the closeups are the main purpose.

STORY_TELLER wrote:

tater1977 wrote:Ok, those with decent eyesight ... what's Neal doing at 2:08 ?
And Ross at 1.56 ?
Can't decide if that's a camera on the pole, which
Smitty is recording his performance or what ....
and RV and NS messing with the camera ...

Steve Smith Drum Solo with Journey

https://youtu.be/Gvs4y1DkXds

Those are cameras. Probably for the display monitor to show closeups of smitty during the concert. Could be recording as well, but I'm guessing the closeups are the main purpose.

Thanks Story Teller.

Art Vandelay wrote:I guess the real question is why was Smith brought back into the band? Was it for his creative input, or was it to just keep the band afloat for another summer jukebox tour with a little Nostalgia thrown in? My guess would be the latter.

I think SS will always be the first call made. He couldn't sit in soon enough last year, so Omar H did.
SS played on Schon solo stuff, so you know they talked about Journey a lot.
I also think that if there was ever to be any more leverage for bringing Perry back, having SS already in place could be it.

One thing strikes me about this "no energy" talk, is that SS is playing a fairly compact kit, and on a short riser. If his drum set were more spread-out, and on a bigger riser - like that of 30ish yrs ago - then perhaps the overall stage dynamic would be different. Deen was very animated because he was reaching all over for stuff to hit. If Smitty's setup were more like that, he would be too...any may appear more "alive".


later~

Arkansas wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote:I guess the real question is why was Smith brought back into the band? Was it for his creative input, or was it to just keep the band afloat for another summer jukebox tour with a little Nostalgia thrown in? My guess would be the latter.

I think SS will always be the first call made. He couldn't sit in soon enough last year, so Omar H did.
SS played on Schon solo stuff, so you know they talked about Journey a lot.
I also think that if there was ever to be any more leverage for bringing Perry back, having SS already in place could be it.

One thing strikes me about this "no energy" talk, is that SS is playing a fairly compact kit, and on a short riser. If his drum set were more spread-out, and on a bigger riser - like that of 30ish yrs ago - then perhaps the overall stage dynamic would be different. Deen was very animated because he was reaching all over for stuff to hit. If Smitty's setup were more like that, he would be too...any may appear more "alive".


later~

Smaller kit makes more sense for the type of music he has been playing over the past couple of decades. He looks to be in great shape (always was a smaller build guy anyway), doesn't seem to have put on the pounds like most of us have in the past 25 years, but still to play like a monster on a huge kit at his age would be taxing (probably at any age). It makes me appreciate the guys who can still do it.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Judging from this clip, I think the band is doing just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiifNJI-nHM

They sound good there.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Judging from this clip, I think the band is doing just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiifNJI-nHM

Poor Arnel. Singing these songs is really taking its toll on his voice. Those high notes on "Escape" are really not happening, and he sounds pretty tired, and this is at the beginning of a tour. Not as bad as what happened to Augeri, but I can see it starting to happen.

WalrusOct9 wrote:Poor Arnel. Singing these songs is really taking its toll on his voice. Those high notes on "Escape" are really not happening, and he sounds pretty tired, and this is at the beginning of a tour. Not as bad as what happened to Augeri, but I can see it starting to happen.

Escape needs to be taken off the set. Same with BGTY. These songs are murder on a voice.

The MSG show had much more energy than what I saw earlier (on YT). I guess playing in that venue, in that city, the band figured they had to step up their game. Arnel seems to be straining badly on some songs, though. I worry for him. Not having Deen there to help with vocals sure hurt.

Seems they did a tribute at the concert last night to Prince and did Purple Rain .

https://youtu.be/vwxeSg1v8LY

tater1977 wrote:Seems they did a tribute at the concert last night to Prince and did Purple Rain .

Wow!! Would love to see THAT!!

annie89509 wrote:The MSG show had much more energy than what I saw earlier (on YT). I guess playing in that venue, in that city, the band figured they had to step up their game. Arnel seems to be straining badly on some songs, though. I worry for him. Not having Deen there to help with vocals sure hurt.

You know, here's thing, when I go to see a band live, I don't expect them to ever sound like the record. I don't expect them to match the vocals, or even the music, perfectly. It's live. It's raw. As a fan, you should be there to live in the moment and enjoy a concert, not worry so much about the guy singing a song that's lowered a half a step or whole step down. As long as he (or she) is still singing on key and sounded good, and the general vibe of the song is still very much intact, then I don't care that it doesn't sound exactly like the record. That's what was amazing about Pineda in the beginning, and even Perry back in the early 80's! Those guys sounded just as good live as they did on the record. Pineda's vocals were out of this world amazing eight years ago.

Having said that, there is a fine line between lowering a song down to where your singer can get through the song and still sounds like trash, and one who needs it lowered for live concerts so that he/she can be an animated front man (or woman), run around the stage getting the fans hyped, and still be able to sound good. In my opinion, Arnel still sounds good enough. He's where you'd expect a Journey singer to be after eight years of covering this music live. It wore on Steve Perry, it wore on Steve Augeri, and now it's wearing on Arnel Pineda.

Now I know why some older bands tend to change things up a bit with their older material. Such as Night Ranger, who still sounds absolutely amazing live, will do some mini acoustic sets of their older material to give the Jack and Kelly some vocal rest. Or, will do some acoustic intros of some of their songs (like Sentimental Street). Maybe Journey should incorporate this a bit more into their live shows to prolong their singer's vocals?

http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/journey/2 ... 167fc.html

Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)


Play Video
2.
Be Good to Yourself


Play Video
3.
Only the Young


Play Video
4.
Guitar Solo


Play Video
5.
Stone in Love


Play Video
6.
Any Way You Want It


Play Video
7.
Lights


Play Video
8.
Open Arms


Play Video
9.
Line of Fire


Play Video
10.
Dead or Alive


Play Video
11.
Rock and Roll

(Led Zeppelin cover)
Play Video
12.
Piano Solo

(included medley of many songs)
Play Video
13.
Who's Crying Now


Play Video
14.
Escape


Play Video
15.
La Do Da

(with Steve Smith drum solo)
Play Video
16.
Wheel in the Sky


Play Video
17.
Faithfully


Play Video
18.
Don't Stop Believin'


Play Video
Encore:
19.
Lovin', Touchin', Squeezin'







changed it up a little. Line of Fire and Dead or alive is nice. A Zeppelin cover?

scarab wrote:http://www.setlist.fm/setlist/journey/2016/irvine-meadows-irvine-ca-5bf167fc.html

Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)


Play Video
2.
Be Good to Yourself


Play Video
3.
Only the Young


Play Video
4.
Guitar Solo


Play Video
5.
Stone in Love


Play Video
6.
Any Way You Want It


Play Video
7.
Lights


Play Video
8.
Open Arms


Play Video
9.
Line of Fire


Play Video
10.
Dead or Alive


Play Video
11.
Rock and Roll

(Led Zeppelin cover)
Play Video
12.
Piano Solo

(included medley of many songs)
Play Video
13.
Who's Crying Now


Play Video
14.
Escape


Play Video
15.
La Do Da

(with Steve Smith drum solo)
Play Video
16.
Wheel in the Sky


Play Video
17.
Faithfully


Play Video
18.
Don't Stop Believin'


Play Video
Encore:
19.
Lovin', Touchin', Squeezin'







changed it up a little. Line of Fire and Dead or alive is nice. A Zeppelin cover?

dead or alive, been playing that on and off over the years, nothing noteworthy.. Line of fire, very cool they put that in.. And Zeppelin?! I would like to see a video of that before I judge.

Looks like Neal and Arnel did this before. Arnel sounds great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXgRrHMiFq0

scarab wrote:Looks like Neal and Arnel did this before. Arnel sounds great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXgRrHMiFq0

Arnel, Neal and... (wait for it) KATY PERRY!? What a concept? Eh Noble Cause?