Arnel Lipping Allegations

[The_Noble_Cause]

Sounds and looks mostly live to me. However, a YouTube user named, Richard Lawson, points out that Arnel puts the mic down and yet the lead vocal continues at 2:57. Maybe they just use backing tracks? It does not appear to be delay. Well, you be the judge.

https://youtu.be/1RUJKMVm_Ow

Personally, I hope it is just Travis doing an uncanny Arnel impression.

[scarab]

Wow, I am guessing backing vocal tracks on that harmony.
And now way it is the man behind the curtain.

You can even tell for a split second how Arnel reacts as he pulls his mic down.

[Memorex]

I don't believe it's lip syncing for one simple reason. The lead up to that moment is not good. He's off and not holding the notes. If you are going to lip sync, you pick a better performance to lip to, like they did with Augeri.

[wednesday's child]

Yep. Caught cold.

It's a practice with a long history within the industry, though.
There was a time they didn't even care to hide it.
Sting was caught cold during the Police's 1983 Synchronicity Concert tour,
and they kept it on the footage for the VHS, VCD, DVD onto BluRay release.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I don't believe it's lip syncing for one simple reason. The lead up to that moment is not good. He's off and not holding the notes. If you are going to lip sync, you pick a better performance to lip to, like they did with Augeri.

Well, nobody said the entire song is mimed. It's not unusual for vocalists to have assistance with the main chorus. I think that is what we are seeing here. Either way, this is not how you start off a tour.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Yeah definitely singing along to a track in parts ... is what it is.

Band just feels incredibly flat though

[RumTumJM]

I'm inclined to believe that it's Travis, the hired vocalist/keyboard guy.

Yet, with that said, even if it is a track, I don't think it's a lip sync track but rather a backing vocal/harmony part track. The voice is clearly not Arnel's. You can clearly tell when Arnel is singing live & not, which wouldn't be the case if it was a deceptive practice at work. (Look at the recent Paul Stanley videos. The taped vocals are mixed to sound like the live ones, so that they aren't noticeable.)

Plus, others have made a great point, above. They'd almost certainly use a better sounding vocal for a lip sync track.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'm inclined to believe that it's Travis, the hired vocalist/keyboard guy.

Yet, with that said, even if it is a track, I don't think it's a lip sync track but rather a backing vocal/harmony part track. The voice is clearly not Arnel's. You can clearly tell when Arnel is singing live & not, which wouldn't be the case if it was a deceptive practice at work. (Look at the recent Paul Stanley videos. The taped vocals are mixed to sound like the live ones, so that they aren't noticeable.)

Plus, others have made a great point, above. They'd almost certainly use a better sounding vocal for a lip sync track.

The brief moment in question, at 2:57, sounds exactly like Arnel. Could be Travis, but sounds like Arnel to me. Either way, who cares. This band has reached a new creative nadir. No new music since 2011.

[RumTumJM]

Regardless of who's voice it is, I say very confidently that IF it is a track, it's a harmony/backing vocal track.

If it was intended to be a lead vocal/lip sync track, the volume, tone and sound would be MUCH MORE identical to Arnel's live singing voice. Unless you have a SUPER trained ear, you'd only know something was up based upon the LOOK (aka matching the lips to the sound). That is not the case here.

[Onestepper]

Clearly a track, but not that surprising. His "come on" gave it away, as it was significantly lower in volume than the rest.

As someone else said, it is what it is....and not that unusual anymore.

I'd also say, they sound terrible.

[Monker]

I don't believe it's lip syncing for one simple reason. The lead up to that moment is not good. He's off and not holding the notes. If you are going to lip sync, you pick a better performance to lip to, like they did with Augeri.

Exactly...I stopped listening within the first two minutes. It's just bad. There were parts he was OK with, but not enough.

[RPM]

They are using a backing track but he is also singing, hence the bad notes that you hear.
The track you hear at 2:57 is not a harmony, its a lead line. so basically he is using a live mic
with a backing track. my guess is he was not feeling well or in good voice so they didnt want
to chance it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I don't believe it's lip syncing for one simple reason. The lead up to that moment is not good. He's off and not holding the notes. If you are going to lip sync, you pick a better performance to lip to, like they did with Augeri.

Exactly...I stopped listening within the first two minutes. It's just bad. There were parts he was OK with, but not enough.

Again, nobody said the entire song is lipped. We are talking about a specific instance at 2:57 when the mic is down but the lead vocal is still coming through. The sound guy can turn the backing track up and down at will. There are clips of SA in 2004 where, during a challenging part of Separate Ways, Elson turns up the backing track to mask the live feed and then turns it off.

[Monker]

I don't believe it's lip syncing for one simple reason. The lead up to that moment is not good. He's off and not holding the notes. If you are going to lip sync, you pick a better performance to lip to, like they did with Augeri.

Exactly...I stopped listening within the first two minutes. It's just bad. There were parts he was OK with, but not enough.

Again, nobody said the entire song is lipped. We are talking about a specific instance at 2:57 when the mic is down but the lead vocal is still coming through. The sound guy can turn the backing track up and down at will. There are clips of SA in 2004 where, during a challenging part of Separate Ways, Elson turns up the backing track to mask the live feed and then turns it off.

And, I am saying the song sucks. Using a tape for a half second in the middle of the song doesn't do much at all. If all of the use of tapes is true, and I'm not going to argue that, then they should know how to do this a LOT better than this.

But, honestly it really doesn't matter that much to me.

[marco17]

Just not good. Cain looks really annoyed, like he can't believe Arnel sounds so rough, which is different than his usual "meh" look these days during the show. It may just be me, but around the 3:15 mark Arnel starts singing again, but you really don't hear him for another couple seconds. Definitely a backing track at a minimum, but as others have said, many are using them.

[RumTumJM]

I found this video of the same performance that gives another look (or should I say listen) at the scenario.

While I am now more inclined to believe that it's a track, I still don't think it's a lip sync track or, necessarily, Arnel's voice. (The taped voice has a much thinner, flatter tone than Arnel's, which has a raspier quality to it.) I think the track's used to create a harmony/layered vocal effect. If you listen carefully, you can hear it continue, once he starts singing live, again.

Simply, I keep thinking back to what KISS is doing. They keep cutting back and forth between the tape & live vocals, mixing it all so that you can't tell the difference & so it all sounds like one continuous voice. In this case, you can clearly tell Arnel's live vocal & when he's singing & not. If they wanted to use it in more of the commonly deceptive manner, ala KISS, they'd clearly have mixed his voice more identically to the track.

In closing: Is he lipping? Clearly not - Is it a track? It seems so. - Are they trying to deceive, like others? I don't think so. (I think they're trying to fatten/complete the sound & maybe help him.)


Listen for yourselves: https://youtu.be/XbGTqtpM_jo?t=165

[The_Noble_Cause]

I found this video of the same performance that gives another look (or should I say listen) at the scenario.

While I am now more inclined to believe that it's a track, I still don't think it's a lip sync track or, necessarily, Arnel's voice. (The taped voice has a much thinner, flatter tone than Arnel's, which has a raspier quality to it.) I think the track's used to create a harmony/layered vocal effect. If you listen carefully, you can hear it continue, once he starts singing live, again.

Simply, I keep thinking back to what KISS is doing. They keep cutting back and forth between the tape & live vocals, mixing it all so that you can't tell the difference & so it all sounds like one continuous voice. In this case, you can clearly tell Arnel's live vocal & when he's singing & not. If they wanted to use it in more of the commonly deceptive manner, ala KISS, they'd clearly have mixed his voice more identically to the track.

In closing: Is he lipping? Clearly not - Is it a track? It seems so. - Are they trying to deceive, like others? I don't think so. (I think they're trying to fatten/complete the sound & maybe help him.)


Listen for yourselves: https://youtu.be/XbGTqtpM_jo?t=165

Thanks for posting. It could be Travis. Obviously, whatever is going on, is nowhere near Kiss-level deceit or 2005-era Journey.

[Aaron]

Data is data. Why jack with these clowns. GREAT VAN FLEET = REAL.

Sounds and looks mostly live to me. However, a YouTube user named, Richard Lawson, points out that Arnel puts the mic down and yet the lead vocal continues at 2:57. Maybe they just use backing tracks? It does not appear to be delay. Well, you be the judge.

https://youtu.be/1RUJKMVm_Ow

Personally, I hope it is just Travis doing an uncanny Arnel impression.

[Aaron]

So they've hired a back room guy to cover for a replacement singer? LOL You can't make it up.

https://www.facebook.com/E5C4P3JourneyT ... 401711828/

I'm inclined to believe that it's Travis, the hired vocalist/keyboard guy.

Yet, with that said, even if it is a track, I don't think it's a lip sync track but rather a backing vocal/harmony part track. The voice is clearly not Arnel's. You can clearly tell when Arnel is singing live & not, which wouldn't be the case if it was a deceptive practice at work. (Look at the recent Paul Stanley videos. The taped vocals are mixed to sound like the live ones, so that they aren't noticeable.)

Plus, others have made a great point, above. They'd almost certainly use a better sounding vocal for a lip sync track.

[scarab]

I think Journey has realized without Deen that they need back tracks for the high harmonies,
That is Arnel's voice when he moves the mic down.

[PianoMan1986]

I'll throw my .02 into the ring --

I do believe that Arnel is singing 'live' and there are two things -- 1) It's Travis doubling his part in the harmony (makes sense) as the timbre is similar, but Arnel's has a little rougher edge when pushing his upper register, or 2) It's a pre-recorded chorus track that the band either did prior to this set of shows, or even before that.

An example to think of would be like how the chorus vocals on Separate Ways sound huge regardless of how many (or how few) people are on the mics singing. Another similar example would be if you've ever watched/listened to Journey road crew (road crew jam) on youtube and the techs are running the backing chorus track with the band and Augeri's vocals (barring the intermittent lead bits).

[Gideon]

Probably a backing track. Arnel’s English fluency is too tenuous for him to credibly lip sync English songs the way Augeri did.

Listening to the clips, Arnel sounds tired and you can tell his voice has been put through the ringer. And this was the very first show of the year.

He still sounds better at 52 than Augeri did at 45, which is testament to his natural power as a singer.

Hats off to AP. He’s hung in there better than most.

[brywool]

He's not lip-syncing. If you think he is, listen to Open Arms (right after) and listen to DSB from the same show. He is CLEARLY not lip syncing- If he was, it'd sound flawless. Unfortunately, he is having some trouble- it happens. His monitors could be misleading him, he might have a cold, who knows. Singer's bodies do what they want, unfortunately. Who knows... maybe it's the tension between the members, tension does affect vocalists.

One thing nobody has mentioned: These are the ORIGINAL KEYS. WHY?
For Journey to ask a 52 year old (even a monster singer like Arnel) to go out and sing these night after night is a big ask.

The show on Oct 1- also original keys- I would've expected them to tune down a bit.

This will make Arnel's job much more difficult.

Wow, Neal looks much differnet than the last time I saw him.
Even WITH Deen, they used backup trax.
Cain always looks like he has stomach cramps.

[The_Noble_Cause]

He's not lip-syncing. If you think he is, listen to Open Arms (right after) and listen to DSB from the same show. He is CLEARLY not lip syncing- If he was, it'd sound flawless. Unfortunately, he is having some trouble- it happens. His monitors could be misleading him, he might have a cold, who knows. Singer's bodies do what they want, unfortunately. Who knows... maybe it's the tension between the members, tension does affect vocalists.

One thing nobody has mentioned: These are the ORIGINAL KEYS. WHY?
For Journey to ask a 52 year old (even a monster singer like Arnel) to go out and sing these night after night is a big ask.

The show on Oct 1- also original keys- I would've expected them to tune down a bit.

This will make Arnel's job much more difficult.

Wow, Neal looks much differnet than the last time I saw him.
Even WITH Deen, they used backup trax.
Cain always looks like he has stomach cramps.

They has de-tuned with Arnel previously. JSS once said that he found the material harder to sing de-tuned. So who knows?

[Hollywood]

This kinda stuff drives me nuts.

It is Travis. This is why they hired him. Deen used to cover these parts and Smith doesn't sing.

The old tried and true they are singing live with a track beneath them line is so old. This would be an awful way to perform. If the singer is even just a tiny bit off-key it will sound terrible and ruin the performance. If you are going to use a track you use a track and the singer mimes.

I think over the years, maybe starting with RoR , Journey became a more polished sounding band. This required supplemental parts. Bringing in Randy Jackson who was not only a great bass player but a great background singer. Regardless of how you feel about Cain's lead voice he's a good background singer. Perry's vocals from Escape on were layered to make them fuller and difficult to recreate live.

When they got back together to tour in 1998 they had Deen to help, but clearly use backing tracks to fill BG vocals and keyboard parts on some songs. This results in a more polished show. Whether you like that or not is preference. My preference is always an organic performance moves me more.

Many other bands have added players for a more polished show. Bon Jovi, Rolling Stones, Aerosmith, Beach Boys, and many others.

[Andrew]

Big layer of flawless backing tracks there to fatten the sound. Arnel sounds hoarse.

And Cain looks like he'd rather be watching porn with his wife and Trump.

[Hollywood]

Big layer of flawless backing tracks there to fatten the sound. Arnel sounds hoarse.

And Cain looks like he'd rather be watching porn with his wife and Trump.

Cain was never the most effusive performer, but he went from stiff and happy, to stiff, to stiff and unhappy, to now looking like he’s going to hurl at a moments notice.

[The_Noble_Cause]

The old tried and true they are singing live with a track beneath them line is so old. This would be an awful way to perform. If the singer is even just a tiny bit off-key it will sound terrible and ruin the performance. If you are going to use a track you use a track and the singer mimes.

You are simply incorrect.
Example - here in Separate Ways the vocal is mostly live but at 2:22-2:225 it briefly switches to an auto-tuned track from the Vegas 2001 DVD.
I imagine a vocal track is beneath the lead singer (or the band) like a click track. The sound guy can cue it up or down as needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxCIz7-_qqE

[Eric]

Cain was never the most effusive performer, but he went from stiff and happy, to stiff, to stiff and unhappy, to now looking like he’s going to hurl at a moments notice.

That's great! LOL

[Hollywood]

The old tried and true they are singing live with a track beneath them line is so old. This would be an awful way to perform. If the singer is even just a tiny bit off-key it will sound terrible and ruin the performance. If you are going to use a track you use a track and the singer mimes.

You are simply incorrect.
Example - here in Separate Ways the vocal is mostly live but at 2:22-2:225 it briefly switches to an auto-tuned track from the Vegas 2001 DVD.
I imagine a vocal track is beneath the lead singer (or the band) like a click track. The sound guy can cue it up or down as needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxCIz7-_qqE

I don't think I am wrong, I think we are talking about two different things. Having a track for certain parts and rehearsing them with help from the crew is possible and could be what is happening here. In this case, I think it is Travis doubling the part, but that is my opinion.

My comment above is that a live singer and a track used concurrently is not happening as it would sound terrible. But so many artists have used that excuse from Kiss, House of Lords, Britney Spears and so many others.