MR

https://xsrock.com/exclusive-interview-with-john-waite/

INTERVIEWER: So, how did the band ultimately break up with Bad English?

JOHN WAITE: Well, it was just me and Jonathan Cain just couldn’t get on. I mean honestly, even when Journey was successful, he wasn’t that friendly. He was always leaving early and coming late, He was a very difficult person to get on with. And in the end, I just said fuck it. We were in the studio and it was just awful. I mean it was just like pulling teeth. We haven’t written any songs that worked. We’d gone back in too soon. And the producer was just not the right man. And the band just fell apart. I just got up and left. I mean I really hung in there for as long as I could. I was working 18 hours a day on songs and singing. And I come in the studio and it would be like stony silence. There’s just like this political bullshit. So, I just turned around and left.

Is it just me or does this seem to be a pattern with Cain?

It's a pattern with JW also

What does it mean when he says even when Journey was successful he wasn’t that friendly? Like he heard he wasn’t nice to people at Journey’s zenith?

Eric wrote:What does it mean when he says even when Journey was successful he wasn’t that friendly? Like he heard he wasn’t nice to people at Journey’s zenith?

I’ve always wondered if there is still some bad blood from when they were both in The Baby’s. It seems like Waite has had a sour opinion of Cain for quite awhile.

ebake02 wrote:

Eric wrote:What does it mean when he says even when Journey was successful he wasn’t that friendly? Like he heard he wasn’t nice to people at Journey’s zenith?

I’ve always wondered if there is still some bad blood from when they were both in The Baby’s. It seems like Waite has had a sour opinion of Cain for quite awhile.

This makes sense to me. He left the Baby's and joined Journey and Journey shot through the stratosphere while the Baby's never really got super big. And then Bad English never got super big either. Waite is probably angry about all of this.

Cain is alot of things - bible snake oil salesman, cliche-prone lyricist etc.

The idea that he is somehow unprofessional and showing up late just seems like BS.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:https://xsrock.com/exclusive-interview-with-john-waite/

INTERVIEWER: So, how did the band ultimately break up with Bad English?

JOHN WAITE: Well, it was just me and Jonathan Cain just couldn’t get on. I mean honestly, even when Journey was successful, he wasn’t that friendly. He was always leaving early and coming late, He was a very difficult person to get on with. And in the end, I just said fuck it. We were in the studio and it was just awful. I mean it was just like pulling teeth. We haven’t written any songs that worked. We’d gone back in too soon. And the producer was just not the right man. And the band just fell apart. I just got up and left. I mean I really hung in there for as long as I could. I was working 18 hours a day on songs and singing. And I come in the studio and it would be like stony silence. There’s just like this political bullshit. So, I just turned around and left.

This all seems like it could be truthfully to me. There is an Force interview where Jonathan seems to tell it like it was. It seems like the labels propping Waite as sort of the face of the band and Neal and Jon did not like that. Jonathan seemed to think that Waite just wanted to be a rock star. When it came to songwriting, the label paired with Waite to get songs like "When I See You Smile" recorded...which the band did not even write. Jon agreed to that as long as ""Ghost In My Heart" was on the album. So, there was a fundamental disagreement on the direction of the band. Jon said they became a kiss ass corporate rock band, which they did not need to be because they were all already successful. So, I could see nobody wanting to be in the studio because there was no agreed to idea of what Bad English should be. And, . I could see Neal and Jon not wanting to deal with Waite because of how the label was propping him up as the face of the band and leader....I doubt he had any more "power" than Neal or Jon but he obviously believed he did. The band was actually broke up before Backlash was released. Waite did not walk away, he was still doing promotion. When Neal announced Hardline, that is band "officially" was known to break up.

Monker wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:https://xsrock.com/exclusive-interview-with-john-waite/

INTERVIEWER: So, how did the band ultimately break up with Bad English?

JOHN WAITE: Well, it was just me and Jonathan Cain just couldn’t get on. I mean honestly, even when Journey was successful, he wasn’t that friendly. He was always leaving early and coming late, He was a very difficult person to get on with. And in the end, I just said fuck it. We were in the studio and it was just awful. I mean it was just like pulling teeth. We haven’t written any songs that worked. We’d gone back in too soon. And the producer was just not the right man. And the band just fell apart. I just got up and left. I mean I really hung in there for as long as I could. I was working 18 hours a day on songs and singing. And I come in the studio and it would be like stony silence. There’s just like this political bullshit. So, I just turned around and left.

This all seems like it could be truthfully to me. There is an Force interview where Jonathan seems to tell it like it was. It seems like the labels propping Waite as sort of the face of the band and Neal and Jon did not like that. Jonathan seemed to think that Waite just wanted to be a rock star. When it came to songwriting, the label paired with Waite to get songs like "When I See You Smile" recorded...which the band did not even write. Jon agreed to that as long as ""Ghost In My Heart" was on the album. So, there was a fundamental disagreement on the direction of the band. Jon said they became a kiss ass corporate rock band, which they did not need to be because they were all already successful. So, I could see nobody wanting to be in the studio because there was no agreed to idea of what Bad English should be. And, . I could see Neal and Jon not wanting to deal with Waite because of how the label was propping him up as the face of the band and leader....I doubt he had any more "power" than Neal or Jon but he obviously believed he did. The band was actually broke up before Backlash was released. Waite did not walk away, he was still doing promotion. When Neal announced Hardline, that is band "officially" was known to break up.

Think I recall reading that the band. although successful selling records, had trouble getting people to buy tickets to see them live. Not sure how accurate that is, but it supposedly was a part of the overall discontent with the band.

Waite always seems unhappy about something in just about every interview I've read.

There may some truth to that. I’m not sure if they played any arenas, but when I saw them in Indianapolis, it was at a smaller, general admission theatre. While a step down for sure, as a fan it was cool to see such big names in this type of venue.

Cain talks about the producer issue for Backlash in his book. IIRC, Waite wanted one guy and Cain wanted someone else. Perhaps the beginning of the end...

Onestepper wrote:Think I recall reading that the band. although successful selling records, had trouble getting people to buy tickets to see them live. Not sure how accurate that is, but it supposedly was a part of the overall discontent with the band.

Waite always seems unhappy about something in just about every interview I've read.

It was in the same Force interview. Jonathan said, "We had a #1 song, but couldn't sell 2000 seats. That told me what I needed to know."

Moonglow wrote:There may some truth to that. I’m not sure if they played any arenas, but when I saw them in Indianapolis, it was at a smaller, general admission theatre. While a step down for sure, as a fan it was cool to see such big names in this type of venue.

Cain talks about the producer issue for Backlash in his book. IIRC, Waite wanted one guy and Cain wanted someone else. Perhaps the beginning of the end...

The problem was the John Waite and the label wanted one thing...and Neal, Jonathan, and Ricky Phillips wanted to have a sort of "Black Crowes" attitude of "Fuck the label, we do what we want." What I get from what Jonathan has said is that Waite wanted to kiss the label's ass so he could be a rock star and the label wanted Waite as the face of the band...so they got along. The rest of the band didn't.

So, as Waite goes on about how it was in the studio, having the wrong producer, and everybody elses attitudes and not getting on, it makes sense to me because they felt the same way about him. The only thing is that Waite didn't "walk away" as he was still kissing the label's ass, Neal walked away and started Hardline...but the band had already unofficially broke up - before Backlash was even released.

The problem with Bad English was they had some monster hard rock songs, but those songs were over-shadowed by the ballads written for them by Diane Warren. I don't blame Jon for being angry about this. Faithfully and Open Arms never made it to number one on the charts, but a song written by somebody else for Bad English did. That would make me crazy if that happened to me.
Bad English wanted to be a hard rock band, but got pigeon-holed as a soft rock ballad band. It is no wonder Neal got Hardline started so fast.

Onestepper wrote:

Monker wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:https://xsrock.com/exclusive-interview-with-john-waite/

INTERVIEWER: So, how did the band ultimately break up with Bad English?

JOHN WAITE: Well, it was just me and Jonathan Cain just couldn’t get on. I mean honestly, even when Journey was successful, he wasn’t that friendly. He was always leaving early and coming late, He was a very difficult person to get on with. And in the end, I just said fuck it. We were in the studio and it was just awful. I mean it was just like pulling teeth. We haven’t written any songs that worked. We’d gone back in too soon. And the producer was just not the right man. And the band just fell apart. I just got up and left. I mean I really hung in there for as long as I could. I was working 18 hours a day on songs and singing. And I come in the studio and it would be like stony silence. There’s just like this political bullshit. So, I just turned around and left.

This all seems like it could be truthfully to me. There is an Force interview where Jonathan seems to tell it like it was. It seems like the labels propping Waite as sort of the face of the band and Neal and Jon did not like that. Jonathan seemed to think that Waite just wanted to be a rock star. When it came to songwriting, the label paired with Waite to get songs like "When I See You Smile" recorded...which the band did not even write. Jon agreed to that as long as ""Ghost In My Heart" was on the album. So, there was a fundamental disagreement on the direction of the band. Jon said they became a kiss ass corporate rock band, which they did not need to be because they were all already successful. So, I could see nobody wanting to be in the studio because there was no agreed to idea of what Bad English should be. And, . I could see Neal and Jon not wanting to deal with Waite because of how the label was propping him up as the face of the band and leader....I doubt he had any more "power" than Neal or Jon but he obviously believed he did. The band was actually broke up before Backlash was released. Waite did not walk away, he was still doing promotion. When Neal announced Hardline, that is band "officially" was known to break up.

Think I recall reading that the band. although successful selling records, had trouble getting people to buy tickets to see them live. Not sure how accurate that is, but it supposedly was a part of the overall discontent with the band.

Waite always seems unhappy about something in just about every interview I've read.

They did play arenas, but as the support act for Whitesnake when the debut album (Bad English) came out.

Maybe I missed it, but why hasn't anyone else chimed in with the comments Herbie Herbert has made about Cain being a prima donna and a pain in the ass to deal with? I'll never forget the story Herbert told about one of Cain/Friga's first days with Journey when he demanded that Herbie sign his (no talent) wife, Tane Cain, to a record deal, saying he would quit Journey if he didn't sign her.

carleysdad wrote:I'll never forget the story Herbert told about one of Cain/Friga's first days with Journey when he demanded that Herbie sign his (no talent) wife, Tane Cain, to a record deal, saying he would quit Journey if he didn't sign her.

No talent??? I take it you've never seen any of her soft core porn films?

youkeepmewaiting wrote:It's a pattern with JW also

JW is an independent kinda guy. I like him a lot, I understand where he's coming from.

Cain is just a fuckwit.

JourneyHard wrote: Waite is probably angry about all of this.

He really isn't. He's mad more success than most will ever have. Babys could have been bigger, but their influence is there...Cain stopped that train from moving also.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:https://xsrock.com/exclusive-interview-with-john-waite/

INTERVIEWER: So, how did the band ultimately break up with Bad English?

JOHN WAITE: Well, it was just me and Jonathan Cain just couldn’t get on. I mean honestly, even when Journey was successful, he wasn’t that friendly. He was always leaving early and coming late, He was a very difficult person to get on with. And in the end, I just said fuck it. We were in the studio and it was just awful. I mean it was just like pulling teeth. We haven’t written any songs that worked. We’d gone back in too soon. And the producer was just not the right man. And the band just fell apart. I just got up and left. I mean I really hung in there for as long as I could. I was working 18 hours a day on songs and singing. And I come in the studio and it would be like stony silence. There’s just like this political bullshit. So, I just turned around and left.

Being around the band frequently for 2 years off and on I find Waite's comments accurate. Cain is fan friendly for a photo or something but aloof to those closer.