Journey album - new date

[The_Noble_Cause]

Neal on social media is now saying "September."

[Eric]

Neal on social media is now saying "September."

I hope it’s due to marketing reasons and not overdoing the production.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Neal on social media is now saying "September."

I hope it’s due to marketing reasons and not overdoing the production.

It appears that they are still recording. Neal said him and Narada laid down a new rock track last week.

[ebake02]

I hope they at least release a single in the meantime, I would be happy with just one.

[JourneyHard]

Neal on social media is now saying "September."

I hope it’s due to marketing reasons and not overdoing the production.

It appears that they are still recording. Neal said him and Narada laid down a new rock track last week.

I am just guessing, but this sounds like the same thing that happened with Arrival. The album didn't rock enough so they are adding some more rock songs to balance out the album.
The other thing is they aren't touring this summer; so, they pushed the album release back to September, and they can tour in the fall. Perhaps at Little Caesar's Arena in Detroit as well as other indoor venues around the country.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I am just guessing, but this sounds like the same thing that happened with Arrival. The album didn't rock enough so they are adding some more rock songs to balance out the album.
The other thing is they aren't touring this summer; so, they pushed the album release back to September, and they can tour in the fall. Perhaps at Little Caesar's Arena in Detroit as well as other indoor venues around the country.

Arrival was dealing with Sony/Kalodner dictates and the Napster leak. Rockers were added after Andrew (yes, this site's Andrew) called attention to the cd being ballad-heavy. If I'm mistaken, I'm sure he will correct me.

This new album seems to have no outside influence with the exception of QPrime being sent mixes.

[Monker]

I am just guessing, but this sounds like the same thing that happened with Arrival. The album didn't rock enough so they are adding some more rock songs to balance out the album.
The other thing is they aren't touring this summer; so, they pushed the album release back to September, and they can tour in the fall. Perhaps at Little Caesar's Arena in Detroit as well as other indoor venues around the country.

Arrival was dealing with Sony/Kalodner dictates and the Napster leak. Rockers were added after Andrew (yes, this site's Andrew) called attention to the cd being ballad-heavy. If I'm mistaken, I'm sure he will correct me.

This new album seems to have no outside influence with the exception of QPrime being sent mixes.

This isn't quite true.

At that time, Neal was reading/posting to Skylorde's old Journey forum, which eventually was merged into the official site and became BT. When the Napster version was heard, a lot of people complained that it was too ballad heavy. Neal made a "I knew it!" post and a couple extra changes were made to the US version...instead of the only difference being Japan getting an extra song and early release. It was too late to change anything on the Japan release.

This new album was supposed to be released almost a year ago. Every month "someone" says there will be a new single "next month"...the last time being Jonathan saying there would be a single in May. You guys have been LIED to for almost an entire year and strung along. It seems this may be an actual release date. Maybe.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This isn't quite true.

At that time, Neal was reading/posting to Skylorde's old Journey forum, which eventually was merged into the official site and became BT. When the Napster version was heard, a lot of people complained that it was too ballad heavy. Neal made a "I knew it!" post and a couple extra changes were made to the US version...instead of the only difference being Japan getting an extra song and early release. It was too late to change anything on the Japan release.

Sadly before my time.
Def. remember Neal telling off a Perryhead on BT saying "sounds like you need a drink, better make it a stiff one."
SA, his wife, and brother posted occasionally as well.
Good times.

This new album was supposed to be released almost a year ago. Every month "someone" says there will be a new single "next month"...the last time being Jonathan saying there would be a single in May. You guys have been LIED to for almost an entire year and strung along. It seems this may be an actual release date. Maybe.

A few years ago you said Eclipse would be their last album. Now you're nitpicking about release dates. Who cares? I'd rather have the band take their time to release a masterpiece - instead of some rushed hodgepodge half-assed piece of shit like Generations.

[Andrew]

Arrival was dealing with Sony/Kalodner dictates and the Napster leak. Rockers were added after Andrew (yes, this site's Andrew) called attention to the cd being ballad-heavy. If I'm mistaken, I'm sure he will correct me.

Correct, I got a leak of most of the tracks and reviewed that (Neal contacted me direct for the first time after the review and said he agreed) ....then I later reviewed the Japanese edition after the US track listing had been announced...reviewed that the bonus track was too good to leave off the US version.

Then the US got pushed back and revised into what it ended up being...a superb record.

[Andrew]

At that time, Neal was reading/posting to Skylorde's old Journey forum, which eventually was merged into the official site and became BT. When the Napster version was heard, a lot of people complained that it was too ballad heavy. Neal made a "I knew it!" post and a couple extra changes were made to the US version...instead of the only difference being Japan getting an extra song and early release. It was too late to change anything on the Japan release.

This was all after I was the first to review any audio. Then it leaked further (not from me!).

[The_Noble_Cause]

Arrival was dealing with Sony/Kalodner dictates and the Napster leak. Rockers were added after Andrew (yes, this site's Andrew) called attention to the cd being ballad-heavy. If I'm mistaken, I'm sure he will correct me.

Correct, I got a leak of most of the tracks and reviewed that (Neal contacted me direct for the first time after the review and said he agreed) ....then I later reviewed the Japanese edition after the US track listing had been announced...reviewed that the bonus track was too good to leave off the US version.

Then the US got pushed back and revised into what it ended up being...a superb record.

Here's hoping Neal gives you a sneak listen to some of the upcoming new stuff as well!

[JourneyHard]

I'd rather have the band take their time to release a masterpiece - instead of some rushed hodgepodge half-assed piece of shit like Generations.

I agree with this 100%. Take your time, Journey. If you have to release it in 2022, go for it. I want an album where every track is really cool.

[Monker]

A few years ago you said Eclipse would be their last album. Now you're nitpicking about release dates. Who cares? I'd rather have the band take their time to release a masterpiece - instead of some rushed hodgepodge half-assed piece of shit like Generations.

Regardless of what I believed years ago, or what I believe today, or what you believe today, none of that changes the FACT that the band - mostly Neal Schon - LIED multiple times about the release date of any single or album. It has been a year of LIES from this band and nobody even cares.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Regardless of what I believed years ago, or what I believe today, or what you believe today, none of that changes the FACT that the band - mostly Neal Schon - LIED multiple times about the release date of any single or album. It has been a year of LIES from this band and nobody even cares.

Just a few posts up you were caught lying about Arrival and what led to the rockers being added. I (accurately) said it was Andrew. You said "this isn't quite true" and said it was some old forum. To quote Maury Povich, "that was a lie!"

Stop projecting your lying pathological tendencies onto Neal. Schon is guilty of ONLY keeping fans apprised of release dates and fighting for Journey to live on.

[Onestepper]

A few years ago you said Eclipse would be their last album. Now you're nitpicking about release dates. Who cares? I'd rather have the band take their time to release a masterpiece - instead of some rushed hodgepodge half-assed piece of shit like Generations.

Regardless of what I believed years ago, or what I believe today, or what you believe today, none of that changes the FACT that the band - mostly Neal Schon - LIED multiple times about the release date of any single or album. It has been a year of LIES from this band and nobody even cares.

Seriously though, how insufferable is it to sit around and really think a band "lied" to you and its fans about the release of a stupid album?

I don't think this has anything to do about the release date now or in the future. If you can't just be happy that the band is still around and doing what they need/want to do, then maybe they aren't the one's with the problem.

[Monker]

Regardless of what I believed years ago, or what I believe today, or what you believe today, none of that changes the FACT that the band - mostly Neal Schon - LIED multiple times about the release date of any single or album. It has been a year of LIES from this band and nobody even cares.

Just a few posts up you were caught lying about Arrival and what led to the rockers being added. I (accurately) said it was Andrew. You said "this isn't quite true" and said it was some old forum. To quote Maury Povich, "that was a lie!"

Stop projecting your lying pathological tendencies onto Neal. Schon is guilty of ONLY keeping fans apprised of release dates and fighting for Journey to live on.

I didn't lie about anything but even if I did it would not change the FACT that Neal has been consistantly lying about the release date for almost a year. It even became a standard answer to say a single was to be released "next month". Instead of being honest to the fans and saying there were factors out of his control that are holding up the release of anything, he had BS his way to keep people interested. That is the truth. I think you know that, but you will never admit it.

[Monker]

Seriously though, how insufferable is it to sit around and really think a band "lied" to you and its fans about the release of a stupid album?

You don't have to be at all. All I am doing is pointing out the obvious. There was NEVER going to be a release while the lawsuits were happening. That's just simple common sense.

I don't think this has anything to do about the release date now or in the future. If you can't just be happy that the band is still around and doing what they need/want to do, then maybe they aren't the one's with the problem.

Journey has turned into Neal Schon's band to toy with as he choices. It never used to be that way. After the Bill Graham tribute, Neal said that he didn't even want it to be called Journey. He said Journey was "Steve Perry, Neal Schon, Jonathan Cain, AND Steve Smith, AND Ross Valory." The emphasis on "AND" was HIS. If at that time he felt Journey was more than just the three Elmo partners, what does it say about Neal and Journey today when - according Neal and his lawsuit - that Journey is now just Neal and Jonathan and hired players? What does it say about Neal that he has to lie about release dates? What does it say about the few fans left who are desperate for such a watered down version of the band and a band that feels it is an OK thing to lie to their fans? Yeah, there are problems, but it is not with somebody who can see and admit the reality of how much this 'band' has devolved since the release of Eclipse.

[Gideon]

Nobody here will seriously contest that Neal is a narcissistic douchecanoe. But the fact of the matter is that Ross and Smith were deadweight who didn't want to do anything more than grind out the hits on tour and collect a paycheck.

Neal was right to push for more; they have the time, the talent, the resources, and the demand from at least some segment of the fandom for additional material. Ross and Smith never wrote shit, all they'd need do is go into the studio and play the shit they were told to play by Neal and Jon and collect a paycheck... how's that any different from touring?

I too prefer a more egalitarian Journey, embodied best in Trial By Fire, where Perry and Neal were dialed down just a bit and Jon, Ross, and Smith cranked up a bit more. But as long as the narcissist is the only one pushing and pulling, that's not gonna happen. So if a Neal-driven album like Eclipse is the best we can hope for, sign me up.

[Monker]

Nobody here will seriously contest that Neal is a narcissistic douchecanoe. But the fact of the matter is that Ross and Smith were deadweight who didn't want to do anything more than grind out the hits on tour and collect a paycheck.

Neal was right to push for more; they have the time, the talent, the resources, and the demand from at least some segment of the fandom for additional material. Ross and Smith never wrote shit, all they'd need do is go into the studio and play the shit they were told to play by Neal and Jon and collect a paycheck... how's that any different from touring?

I too prefer a more egalitarian Journey, embodied best in Trial By Fire, where Perry and Neal were dialed down just a bit and Jon, Ross, and Smith cranked up a bit more. But as long as the narcissist is the only one pushing and pulling, that's not gonna happen. So if a Neal-driven album like Eclipse is the best we can hope for, sign me up.

Ross and Steve Smith are not my point. The point is that "Journey" is Schon/Cain. That is all. Regardless of who else is involved, they are not members of the band. Journey is a duo. That is how Neal views it. Narada, Randy Jackson and even Arnel are not members of the band, and they should not feel that way either.

[Gideon]

Nobody here will seriously contest that Neal is a narcissistic douchecanoe. But the fact of the matter is that Ross and Smith were deadweight who didn't want to do anything more than grind out the hits on tour and collect a paycheck.

Neal was right to push for more; they have the time, the talent, the resources, and the demand from at least some segment of the fandom for additional material. Ross and Smith never wrote shit, all they'd need do is go into the studio and play the shit they were told to play by Neal and Jon and collect a paycheck... how's that any different from touring?

I too prefer a more egalitarian Journey, embodied best in Trial By Fire, where Perry and Neal were dialed down just a bit and Jon, Ross, and Smith cranked up a bit more. But as long as the narcissist is the only one pushing and pulling, that's not gonna happen. So if a Neal-driven album like Eclipse is the best we can hope for, sign me up.

Ross and Steve Smith are not my point. The point is that "Journey" is Schon/Cain. That is all. Regardless of who else is involved, they are not members of the band. Journey is a duo. That is how Neal views it. Narada, Randy Jackson and even Arnel are not members of the band, and they should not feel that way either.

This is pretty uncharitable. For all his ego, Neal knows Arnel is ultimately the single biggest attraction for fans at Journey shows. Journey's hits are vocal driven first, guitar driven second. AP gets the loudest applause, is usually introduced last, often runs out on stage in a special intro the rest of the band isn't afforded.

Neal ditched Ross and Smith only after they refused to record new material and apparently tried to leverage their membership in the band to get cushy retirement deals. Then that's when Neal and Jon pulled rank and closed the circle around themselves.

Sounds like Neal's a team player until you push him to a certain point... which is how most people are. I can't and don't blame him and I'm genuinely confused about what your beef is here.

[Monker]

This is pretty uncharitable. For all his ego, Neal knows Arnel is ultimately the single biggest attraction for fans at Journey shows. Journey's hits are vocal driven first, guitar driven second. AP gets the loudest applause, is usually introduced last, often runs out on stage in a special intro the rest of the band isn't afforded.

And, he was still an employee of NoMoTa, being paid by the LLC, able to be replaced at will by the LLC, and not a real member of "Journey". That is how it is.

I also fundamentaly disagree that Journey is vocal driven FIRST...as if that was most important. Journey was best when they were equally driven by vocals and musicianship. Most of Journey's best songs I could listen to as instrumentals.

Neal ditched Ross and Smith only after they refused to record new material and apparently tried to leverage their membership in the band to get cushy retirement deals. Then that's when Neal and Jon pulled rank and closed the circle around themselves.

Well, that's BS. You don't know how much of that is true, and how much isn't. They didn't go to trial. Some of the evidence was even destroyed after the settlement, if you read the public documents. The full truth will never be known, and that is intentional by both NoMoTa and Nightmare. All you are doing is repeating Neal's extremely biased words.

Sounds like Neal's a team player until you push him to a certain point... which is how most people are. I can't and don't blame him and I'm genuinely confused about what your beef is here.

Unless this new LLC includes other people, Journey is nothing more than Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain. Neal Schon lied about release dates. Those are FACTS that it seems the fans find hard to accept.

[Gideon]

And, he was still an employee of NoMoTa, being paid by the LLC, able to be replaced at will by the LLC, and not a real member of "Journey". That is how it is.

What the fuck are you trying to argue here lol? Do you even know?

Journey the legal entity and Journey the band we all know and love run on parallel tracks. AP, SS, and RV were all as far as we know paid equally to NS and JC minus songwriting royalties and were effectively not treated like employees or hired guns like the non-Wilson members of Heart or a SP's For the Love of Strange Medicine backing band.

The fact that Schon and Cain were able to successfully argue that the brand belonged to them first and foremost in the event of a schism doesn't mean anything.

I also fundamentaly disagree that Journey is vocal driven FIRST...as if that was most important. Journey was best when they were equally driven by vocals and musicianship. Most of Journey's best songs I could listen to as instrumentals.

I agree but no one gives a fuck. The fact of the matter is Journey's success is predicated first and foremost on the voice and the other instruments second.

Well, that's BS. You don't know how much of that is true, and how much isn't. They didn't go to trial. Some of the evidence was even destroyed after the settlement, if you read the public documents. The full truth will never be known, and that is intentional by both NoMoTa and Nightmare. All you are doing is repeating Neal's extremely biased words.

The fact that you call it BS and then concede in the next sentence that "we don't know what's true and what isn't" means by definition you can't call it BS. The fact that you do so anyway is proof that this is about litigating some sort've weird grudge against Journey and probably a recontextualization of your political feud with TNC.

Unless this new LLC includes other people, Journey is nothing more than Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain. Neal Schon lied about release dates. Those are FACTS that it seems the fans find hard to accept.

This is a weird sort've legalese tangent that no one cares about, Monker. To most people, Journey was Perry and, if they're at all reasonable, Schon and Cain. Everyone else minus AP was window dressing to most fans. Per Journey's management during the AP documentary, AP was paid as much as the rest of the band after all expenses and overhead were accounted for.

Regardless of what's going on behind the scenes with respect to the legal considerations, it's pretty goddamn clear Neal and Jon treat Journey like a band/group effort and the only time they haven't in 40 years is in this situation right here.

[Monker]

And, he was still an employee of NoMoTa, being paid by the LLC, able to be replaced at will by the LLC, and not a real member of "Journey". That is how it is.

What the fuck are you trying to argue here lol? Do you even know?

I am making two statements, not arguments:
1. Neal Schon repeatedly LIED for almost a year about releasing a single and album.
2. Journey is: Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain - nobody else is in the "band".

Journey the legal entity and Journey the band we all know and love run on parallel tracks. AP, SS, and RV were all as far as we know paid equally to NS and JC minus songwriting royalties and were effectively not treated like employees or hired guns like the non-Wilson members of Heart or a SP's For the Love of Strange Medicine backing band.

That is simply not true. RV And SS were fired by NoMoTa and part of the reason given that they were able to fire them is that they were replaceable sidemen who did not contribute much historically to Journey. The lawsuit claimed they were given the ability to fire them because they had rights to Journey trademark. There were NOT members of Journey. Neither was Arnel.

The fact that Schon and Cain were able to successfully argue that the brand belonged to them first and foremost in the event of a schism doesn't mean anything.

Correct, because it's not true. They did not successfully argue ANYTHING...they settled. But, in the documents that NoMoTa submitted, they revealed that only Neal and Jonathan were members of Journey...and they considered the rest of the band hired musicians who didn't contribute much to the band.

The fact of the matter is Journey's success is predicated first and foremost on the voice and the other instruments second.

That is NOT a fact...it is your opinion. And, I doubt very much that if Journey did not have the quality of musicianship they had that they would have been as successful Steve Perry's solo albums were not even close to being as popular as Escape/Frontiers. It was about more than just the singer.

he fact that you call it BS and then concede in the next sentence that "we don't know what's true and what isn't" means by definition you can't call it BS.

You were stating things as fact that simply are not. That is what is BS.

Unless this new LLC includes other people, Journey is nothing more than Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain. Neal Schon lied about release dates. Those are FACTS that it seems the fans find hard to accept.

This is a weird sort've legalese tangent that no one cares about, Monker. [/quote]

It's not 'weird', it's not 'legalese'. It's the truth. NoMaTa was Journey.

I already said that nobody cares. I don't think people want to accept that Journey is a duo now, and has been for a long time.

Regardless of what's going on behind the scenes with respect to the legal considerations, it's pretty goddamn clear Neal and Jon treat Journey like a band/group effort and the only time they haven't in 40 years is in this situation right here.

Well, that's not true. Was JSS treated like a member of the group when he was hired and then fired a few months later?

If this lineup fails, you don't think that Neal can fire "whoever" and hire new people? You don't think that is not only possible but probable? Do you think that Randy Jackson is going to want to go on a tour/record schedule for years, at his age, at his current circumstances? Come on now.

[Gideon]

I am making two statements, not arguments:
1. Neal Schon repeatedly LIED for almost a year about releasing a single and album.

A lie is a purposeful falsehood. Until you produce evidence Neal purposefully misled the fans, swallow your own phrase: "This is BS."

2. Journey is: Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain - nobody else is in the "band".

Journey is Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain and whoever they and management decide is in the band, as was the case in 1985 when SP shitcanned Ross and Smitty.

Nothing's changed here except the fact that Perry is no longer one of the final arbiters. Why are you being dense?

That is simply not true. RV And SS were fired by NoMoTa and part of the reason given that they were able to fire them is that they were replaceable sidemen who did not contribute much historically to Journey. The lawsuit claimed they were given the ability to fire them because they had rights to Journey trademark. There were NOT members of Journey. Neither was Arnel.

Refer again:

Journey is Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain and whoever they and management decide is in the band, as was the case in 1985 when SP shitcanned Ross and Smitty.

Nothing's changed here except the fact that Perry is no longer one of the final arbiters. Why are you being dense?

Correct, because it's not true. They did not successfully argue ANYTHING...they settled. But, in the documents that NoMoTa submitted, they revealed that only Neal and Jonathan were members of Journey...and they considered the rest of the band hired musicians who didn't contribute much to the band.

The documents submitted by NoMoTa include legal arguments proffered by Schon and Cain's attorneys. That they were able to [successfully] legally assert that the Journey trademark belongs to Neal and Jon because of their vastly greater contributions to the brand and catalog doesn't mean they thought of or treated Valory, Smitty, or Arnel as hired guns... unless pushed.

That is NOT a fact...it is your opinion. And, I doubt very much that if Journey did not have the quality of musicianship they had that they would have been as successful Steve Perry's solo albums were not even close to being as popular as Escape/Frontiers. It was about more than just the singer.

It is a fact, dumbass. Street Talk alone has probably outsold all of Schon and Cain's solo works combined. No one ever said it wasn't about "more than just the singer," merely that the singer is the most important individual element of Journey's recognition.

It's not 'weird', it's not 'legalese'. It's the truth. NoMaTa was Journey.

I already said that nobody cares. I don't think people want to accept that Journey is a duo now, and has been for a long time.

As I suspected, this is about your weird grudge against a famous guitarist and keyboardist.

The band experienced a schism and the two most prominent and important members decided to dump two less prominent and important members due to creative and financial differences. It's a tale as old as time in the music industry and the fact that the two aforementioned important members made the legal case that control of the trademark belonged to them to the exclusion of the other two members doesn't mean that Journey wasn't or isn't a band.

Journey right now is comprised of Neal Schon, Jonathan Cain, Randy Jackson, Narada Michael Waldon, and Arnel Pineda. That's five people, three more than a duo.

Well, that's not true. Was JSS treated like a member of the group when he was hired and then fired a few months later?

It is true. The fact that Castronovo, Soto, Augeri, Valory, Smith, Dunbar, Fleischman, and the other 72 members of Journey were fired at one point or another doesn't mean it wasn't a band, Monker. Do you... think that anytime a band experiences a lineup change that they cease to be a band and never were in the first place? You're seriously fucking deranged lol.

If this lineup fails, you don't think that Neal can fire "whoever" and hire new people? You don't think that is not only possible but probable? Do you think that Randy Jackson is going to want to go on a tour/record schedule for years, at his age, at his current circumstances? Come on now.

I'd strongly recommend you take your meds and wipe your frothing mouth. No one says Jackson or Walden will be here long or that Neal and Jon couldn't replace them at any point.

[Monker]

I am making two statements, not arguments:
1. Neal Schon repeatedly LIED for almost a year about releasing a single and album.

A lie is a purposeful falsehood. Until you produce evidence Neal purposefully misled the fans, swallow your own phrase: "This is BS."

Dude. There was a lawsuit going on. They were never going to release anything while nobody knew who owned the Journey trademark. That is plain common sense.

2. Journey is: Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain - nobody else is in the "band".

Journey is Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain and whoever they and management decide is in the band, as was the case in 1985 when SP shitcanned Ross and Smitty.

Correct. Which is why the ROR shows were advertised as "Journey with Michael Baird and Randy Jackson". They were NOT part of the band. Watch the intro to the ROR doc to see it yourself.

Nothing's changed here except the fact that Perry is no longer one of the final arbiters. Why are you being dense?

I'm not. All I am saying is Journey is a duo. You seem to have some problem accepting that fact.

Correct, because it's not true. They did not successfully argue ANYTHING...they settled. But, in the documents that NoMoTa submitted, they revealed that only Neal and Jonathan were members of Journey...and they considered the rest of the band hired musicians who didn't contribute much to the band.

The documents submitted by NoMoTa include legal arguments proffered by Schon and Cain's attorneys. That they were able to [successfully] legally assert that the Journey trademark belongs to Neal and Jon because of their vastly greater contributions to the brand and catalog doesn't mean they thought of or treated Valory, Smitty, or Arnel as hired guns... unless pushed.

You're just factually wrong. Prove to me that Neal and Jonathan OWN the Journey trademark, and it is not owned by Nightmare and is only being licensed to them.

That is NOT a fact...it is your opinion. And, I doubt very much that if Journey did not have the quality of musicianship they had that they would have been as successful Steve Perry's solo albums were not even close to being as popular as Escape/Frontiers. It was about more than just the singer.

It is a fact, dumbass. Street Talk alone has probably outsold all of Schon and Cain's solo works combined. No one ever said it wasn't about "more than just the singer," merely that the singer is the most important individual element of Journey's recognition.

Dude. We were talking about JOURNEY, not just Schon/Cain. Street Talk did NOT outsell Escape or Frontiers. What you are saying is just your opinion.

As I suspected, this is about your weird grudge against a famous guitarist and keyboardist.

Dude. All I am doing is stating a fact. YOU are the one banging your head against a wall - I'm not.

The band experienced a schism and the two most prominent and important members decided to dump two less prominent and important members due to creative and financial differences.

And, then they took them to court and admitted that they were just paid sidemen and were never really part of the band. That is what happened.

the fact that the two aforementioned important members made the legal case that control of the trademark belonged to them to the exclusion of the other two members

That is just NOT TRUE. Ross's counter suit argument was that NIGHTMARE (not Ross Valor or Steve Smith) owned the Journey trademark. He even asked the court to declare who owned the trademark.

Journey right now is comprised of Neal Schon, Jonathan Cain, Randy Jackson, Narada Michael Waldon, and Arnel Pineda. That's five people, three more than a duo.

That is simply NOT TRUE. Journey is NoMoTa, Schon/Cain, with hired musicians...unless the new LLC brings on new people as new partners in the LLC.

Well, that's not true. Was JSS treated like a member of the group when he was hired and then fired a few months later?

It is true. The fact that Castronovo, Soto, Augeri, Valory, Smith, Dunbar, Fleischman, and the other 72 members of Journey were fired at one point or another doesn't mean it wasn't a band

I have not made any claim about anything prior to ROR. I assume back when the band was first trademarked members were brought in as full partners to the band by Herbie - because that is how he seemed to run things, like a "family". That obviously stopped happening when Herbie lost power during ROR and Elmo partners was created.

If this lineup fails, you don't think that Neal can fire "whoever" and hire new people? You don't think that is not only possible but probable? Do you think that Randy Jackson is going to want to go on a tour/record schedule for years, at his age, at his current circumstances? Come on now.

I'd strongly recommend you take your meds and wipe your frothing mouth. No one says Jackson or Walden will be here long or that Neal and Jon couldn't replace them at any point.

So, you EXPECT there to be a revolving door for the hired hands of Journey. Do you think that's a good thing?

[JourneyHard]

I am making two statements, not arguments:
1. Neal Schon repeatedly LIED for almost a year about releasing a single and album.
2. Journey is: Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain - nobody else is in the "band".

I don't think Neal lied about releasing a single and album. This has been a crazy year. Neal thought the single would be released a long time ago, but things change. Neal isn't stringing us along. Neal is just excited about the new album that will be released at some point. Neal didn't lie once about any of this.

Journey is Neal Schon, Jonathan Cain, Arnel Pineda, Jason Deriatka, Randy Jackson, and Narada Michael Walden. Neal and Jon will write the songs, but Arnel and Narada will have some input. This is probably more of a band than they have ever had. Did Steve Smith and Ross Valory add much to song writing over the years? Not really. So, today's Journey is more of a band than any past Journey lineup!

[Monker]

I am making two statements, not arguments:
1. Neal Schon repeatedly LIED for almost a year about releasing a single and album.
2. Journey is: Neal Schon and Jonathan Cain - nobody else is in the "band".

I don't think Neal lied about releasing a single and album. This has been a crazy year. Neal thought the single would be released a long time ago, but things change. Neal isn't stringing us along. Neal is just excited about the new album that will be released at some point. Neal didn't lie once about any of this.

There is no way any type of label is going to release a Journey single when there is an ongoing lawsuit that puts who own the trademark in dispute. It was NEVER going to happen.

Journey is Neal Schon, Jonathan Cain, Arnel Pineda, Jason Deriatka, Randy Jackson, and Narada Michael Walden.

Sorry, but that is absolutely NOT TRUE. Journey is NoMoTa....Schon/Cain...the rest are just hired players. Nobody else are members of the band....Unless the new LLC changed this. Jason, Narada, Randy Jackson, and Arnel are NOT members of the band...but hired by the band to play their part.

[brandonx76]

Didn't they settle the lawsuit back in April?

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... e-1150200/

Why no new single?

[Eric]

Gideon is right, Monker. You have some sort of weird grudge against Schon.

“He lied” sounds ridiculous. They had a couple songs last year and Schon is excitable and aggressive. The legal stuff, new management and perhaps even producing needs have not allowed anything to be released.

[The_Noble_Cause]

There is no way any type of label is going to release a Journey single when there is an ongoing lawsuit that puts who own the trademark in dispute. It was NEVER going to happen.

Geoff Tate released a Queensryche album while he was fighting the rest of the guys (Wilton, Jackson etc) over the name. So it definitely can happen.

Regarding the rest.....

I agree with everyone else. You have an obvious axe to grind. I would rather celebrate impending new Journey music.