Journey album - new date

[Loneman1]

IMO, Narada is a Yes-man who is just there because Neal knew him and had to fill a spot. How often do you hear of Narada challenging Neal, or any member of the band, to counter their ideas or push things in a defined direction? Hardly, if ever. He basically sits back, plays a Neal clip, and has a "Go Neal!" attitude, and that's about it...a yes-man, a cheerleader doing what he's told, liking what he's supposed to like.

I know that in a couple interviews that Neal did promoting his "Universe" album he mentioned going into the studio after listening to the ideas and melodies Narada had sent him and kinda playing off the general idea but Neal putting his own spin on the material, and Narada basically stopping him cold saying "What are you doing? That's not what you play there" and kinda forcing Neal to play it the way he intended as he wrote it. Of course, that is in a solo album environment, and things obviously will change with the big canopy of Journey hanging over this the whole project and of course Narada's songwriting involvement is unknown. All I know is I'm pretty psyched to hear what the finished album is gonna sound like with the new/old players!

[The_Noble_Cause]

IMO, Narada is a Yes-man who is just there because Neal knew him and had to fill a spot.

According to Neal, first they invited Randy. Then Randy suggested Narada because of their history together.

How often do you hear of Narada challenging Neal, or any member of the band, to counter their ideas or push things in a defined direction? Hardly, if ever.

Why would we, as fans, be privy to intraband feuding, especially when the lineup has yet to even step foot on a stage? IF dirty laundry exists, do you really expect it to be aired before this new lineup has even had a chance to meet and rehearse?

He basically sits back, plays a Neal clip, and has a "Go Neal!" attitude, and that's about it...a yes-man, a cheerleader doing what he's told, liking what he's supposed to like.

Randy and Narada are both seriously accomplished players and Journey is very very fortunate to have them on board. I'm sorry you miss Ross and Smith. But you should try defending them on their own merits, and stop resorting to dismissing their succesors.

[The_Noble_Cause]

They were finally free from Sony and the best they came up with is Ross doing a ZZ Top impression? C'mon. There's no cohesion to the cd. It's all over the place. Neal was involved in the sequencing of Eclipse. I think sequencing is one of the biggest issues with Gens. Starts strong and then peters out. The omission of "Never Too Late" was also a huge mistake.

No, the best they did was "Faith In the Heartland", which is a great song...and the songs on Red 13, if you are counting post Sony.

I was not literally saying that 'Gone Crazy' is the best song on the album.

[JourneyHard]

How often do you hear of Narada challenging Neal, or any member of the band, to counter their ideas or push things in a defined direction? Hardly, if ever.

Actually, Narada challenged Neal before with one of Neal's solo projects. Narada forced Neal to work harder and the result was excellent. This is only good news for future Journey releases.

[jrnyman28]

I can enjoy Generations just fine. My criticisms are: 1) there's no continuity due to all the different vocals. The experiment was ok and the songs were ok, but it was too much as an entire project; 2) It felt like the Augeri-penned tracks would've greatly benefitted from assistance from Cain. Seemed he let Augeri sink-or-swim. The songs were good in concept but not great in execution.

They were finally free from Sony and the best they came up with is Ross doing a ZZ Top impression? C'mon. There's no cohesion to the cd. It's all over the place. Neal was involved in the sequencing of Eclipse. I think sequencing is one of the biggest issues with Gens. Starts strong and then peters out. The omission of "Never Too Late" was also a huge mistake.

I got no problem with Ross' track, it was fun. But 100% agree with the cohesion. Sadly, I'm sure the sequencing was intentional to front load the cd with the "best" tracks. That's been a thing for a while now. Bands/labels blame it on listener ADD but really they are just creating that "ADD"...

[jrnyman28]

I can enjoy Generations just fine. My criticisms are: 1) there's no continuity due to all the different vocals. The experiment was ok and the songs were ok, but it was too much as an entire project; 2) It felt like the Augeri-penned tracks would've greatly benefitted from assistance from Cain. Seemed he let Augeri sink-or-swim. The songs were good in concept but not great in execution.

They were finally free from Sony and the best they came up with is Ross doing a ZZ Top impression? C'mon. There's no cohesion to the cd. It's all over the place. Neal was involved in the sequencing of Eclipse. I think sequencing is one of the biggest issues with Gens. Starts strong and then peters out. The omission of "Never Too Late" was also a huge mistake.

No, the best they did was "Faith In the Heartland", which is a great song...and the songs on Red 13, if you are counting post Sony.

It''s too bad Neal did not focus on Journey and was more into starting new bands and recording solo music. Maybe there could have been more songs like that. Like I said back then, which almost got me kicked off BT, Styx was more productive and arguably more successful than Journey at that time.

Remember that the band was dealing with Steve's ailing vocal capabilities. After all the hard (may be too hard) work they had done to rebuild their audience without Perry Neal and Jon were faced with the wheels falling off again. I tend to believe this is why focus was lacking on Generations. Hell, I heard a few "remixed" versions of songs from the album.....it could've sounded so much better. And if they weren't covering up Steve's struggles by giving EVERYONE lead vocals this album could've still sounded better.

[jrnyman28]

IMO, Narada is a Yes-man who is just there because Neal knew him and had to fill a spot. How often do you hear of Narada challenging Neal, or any member of the band, to counter their ideas or push things in a defined direction? Hardly, if ever. He basically sits back, plays a Neal clip, and has a "Go Neal!" attitude, and that's about it...a yes-man, a cheerleader doing what he's told, liking what he's supposed to like.

Dude, two professionals with a LONG history and friendship CAN counter, collaborate, push back, feed off each other to create music without drama....

[The_Noble_Cause]

How often do you hear of Narada challenging Neal, or any member of the band, to counter their ideas or push things in a defined direction? Hardly, if ever.

Actually, Narada challenged Neal before with one of Neal's solo projects. Narada forced Neal to work harder and the result was excellent. This is only good news for future Journey releases.

This is not my quote. You are replying to Monker but have it attributed to me (TNC).

[The_Noble_Cause]

Remember that the band was dealing with Steve's ailing vocal capabilities. After all the hard (may be too hard) work they had done to rebuild their audience without Perry Neal and Jon were faced with the wheels falling off again. I tend to believe this is why focus was lacking on Generations. Hell, I heard a few "remixed" versions of songs from the album.....it could've sounded so much better. And if they weren't covering up Steve's struggles by giving EVERYONE lead vocals this album could've still sounded better.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Even if SA sang lead on every single Gens cd track, it doesn't mean they are playing the full album in concert. He would still be limited to one or two or three new songs. So the use of multiple vocalists on Gens didn't help alleviate his live vocal duties at all. It was just a distraction and a novelty. SA's studio performances sounded fine. I think he sounds more confident and himself on Gens than Arrival.

[JourneyHard]

This is not my quote. You are replying to Monker but have it attributed to me (TNC).

Sorry about that. I don't know why that happened. I was trying not to quote the whole thing and it backfired on me.

[JourneyHard]

Remember that the band was dealing with Steve's ailing vocal capabilities. After all the hard (may be too hard) work they had done to rebuild their audience without Perry Neal and Jon were faced with the wheels falling off again. I tend to believe this is why focus was lacking on Generations. Hell, I heard a few "remixed" versions of songs from the album.....it could've sounded so much better. And if they weren't covering up Steve's struggles by giving EVERYONE lead vocals this album could've still sounded better.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Even if SA sang lead on every single Gens cd track, it doesn't mean they are playing the full album in concert. He would still be limited to one or two or three new songs. So the use of multiple vocalists on Gens didn't help alleviate his live vocal duties at all. It was just a distraction and a novelty. SA's studio performances sounded fine. I think he sounds more confident and himself on Gens than Arrival.

Steve Augeri should have never had vocal problems. They had a great singer playing drums back then. They should have split up the songs on the tours between them evenly and everybody would have been healthy. The gimmick on Generations is crazy. Having everybody sing songs didn't work. Just have Dean sing a couple songs on the album and leave it at that.

[Monker]

They were finally free from Sony and the best they came up with is Ross doing a ZZ Top impression? C'mon. There's no cohesion to the cd. It's all over the place. Neal was involved in the sequencing of Eclipse. I think sequencing is one of the biggest issues with Gens. Starts strong and then peters out. The omission of "Never Too Late" was also a huge mistake.

No, the best they did was "Faith In the Heartland", which is a great song...and the songs on Red 13, if you are counting post Sony.

I was not literally saying that 'Gone Crazy' is the best song on the album.

Correct, you literally said that after the split with Sony the best the band could come up with was a ZZ Top impression. That IS literally what you said, not just the best on Generations, but also Red 13. See your own words in the quotes above.

But, you are really being passive aggressive and implying a backhanded insult to that time of Journey's past and equating the entirety of that time to what you feel is a low point. I am simply saying there are some pretty high points in that time and the comparison you are making is an exaggeration, at best.

[Monker]

Remember that the band was dealing with Steve's ailing vocal capabilities. After all the hard (may be too hard) work they had done to rebuild their audience without Perry Neal and Jon were faced with the wheels falling off again. I tend to believe this is why focus was lacking on Generations. Hell, I heard a few "remixed" versions of songs from the album.....it could've sounded so much better. And if they weren't covering up Steve's struggles by giving EVERYONE lead vocals this album could've still sounded better.

This doesn't make any sense to me. Even if SA sang lead on every single Gens cd track, it doesn't mean they are playing the full album in concert. He would still be limited to one or two or three new songs. So the use of multiple vocalists on Gens didn't help alleviate his live vocal duties at all. It was just a distraction and a novelty. SA's studio performances sounded fine. I think he sounds more confident and himself on Gens than Arrival.

Steve Augeri should have never had vocal problems. They had a great singer playing drums back then. They should have split up the songs on the tours between them evenly and everybody would have been healthy. The gimmick on Generations is crazy. Having everybody sing songs didn't work. Just have Dean sing a couple songs on the album and leave it at that.

Yes, he should have. The never took any time off touring. The 30th Anniversary tour should have never happened. They should have taken that time off, slowed down, and maybe recorded a 30th Anniversary CD instead, and toured later. That tour was brutal and pushed Augeri from having vocal "problems" to not being able to do the job at all and needing years of rest and rehabilitation to even have the abilities he does today.

[Monker]

Remember that the band was dealing with Steve's ailing vocal capabilities. After all the hard (may be too hard) work they had done to rebuild their audience without Perry Neal and Jon were faced with the wheels falling off again. I tend to believe this is why focus was lacking on Generations. Hell, I heard a few "remixed" versions of songs from the album.....it could've sounded so much better. And if they weren't covering up Steve's struggles by giving EVERYONE lead vocals this album could've still sounded better.

If you remember back then, all Neal was discussing was Planet US with Sammy Hagar, and then SoulSirkus. That is where his excitement was focused, what he talked about, and what he seemed to care about. Journey was just a touring machine and his creative attention was diverted to other things. When it was announced that SoulSirkus was releasing an album, I was pissed because they could get together and record and release an album in far less than a year. If he could do that with SoulSirkus, he could have done that with Journey. He simply did not want to...but he could tour with Journey to pay his bills. That is what it seemed Journey was to him at that time.

[Monker]

IMO, Narada is a Yes-man who is just there because Neal knew him and had to fill a spot. How often do you hear of Narada challenging Neal, or any member of the band, to counter their ideas or push things in a defined direction? Hardly, if ever. He basically sits back, plays a Neal clip, and has a "Go Neal!" attitude, and that's about it...a yes-man, a cheerleader doing what he's told, liking what he's supposed to like.

Dude, two professionals with a LONG history and friendship CAN counter, collaborate, push back, feed off each other to create music without drama....

That's not what I'm seeing. I'm seeing a weirdo dancing in place to Neal's guitar cheering with a "go Neal go" attitude. I do not see him taking anything about this band serious at all.

[Monker]

Randy and Narada are both seriously accomplished players and Journey is very very fortunate to have them on board. I'm sorry you miss Ross and Smith. But you should try defending them on their own merits, and stop resorting to dismissing their succesors.

It has nothing to do with Smith/Valory. I don't miss them at all because what Journey has done since JSS joined has not interested me much at all.

IMO, Randy Jackson is not there because of his history with Journey or Neal, or because of his ability. I think he is there because of American Idol and his ability to possibly sell a few albums and concert tickets because of that.

IMO, Narada is there simply because he's a kiss-ass to Neal. It seems to me that is what Neal wants the members of Journey to be...and every video I have seen of Narada, that is how he acts.

[Andrew]

IMO, Narada is there simply because he's a kiss-ass to Neal. It seems to me that is what Neal wants the members of Journey to be...and every video I have seen of Narada, that is how he acts.

LOL

Literally....LOL

Stupid post.

[Onestepper]

Randy and Narada are both seriously accomplished players and Journey is very very fortunate to have them on board. I'm sorry you miss Ross and Smith. But you should try defending them on their own merits, and stop resorting to dismissing their succesors.

It has nothing to do with Smith/Valory. I don't miss them at all because what Journey has done since JSS joined has not interested me much at all.

IMO, Randy Jackson is not there because of his history with Journey or Neal, or because of his ability. I think he is there because of American Idol and his ability to possibly sell a few albums and concert tickets because of that.

IMO, Narada is there simply because he's a kiss-ass to Neal. It seems to me that is what Neal wants the members of Journey to be...and every video I have seen of Narada, that is how he acts.

You really do come off as an insufferable human being. My goodness.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Correct, you literally said that after the split with Sony the best the band could come up with was a ZZ Top impression. That IS literally what you said, not just the best on Generations, but also Red 13. See your own words in the quotes above.

We've gone over this before...

You clearly have Asperger's or are somewhere on the spectrum. I say this because you ALWAYS get hung up on semantics and are incapable of interpreting sarcasm.
When I say "best they could come up " I mean it in the sense that "Really??? Ross doing a ZZ Top Impression is the best they could fucking do?!?!"

It is NOT to say that Gone Crazy is the best song or even a good song. Give me a fucking break. How utterly stupid.

But, you are really being passive aggressive and implying a backhanded insult to that time of Journey's past and equating the entirety of that time to what you feel is a low point. I am simply saying there are some pretty high points in that time and the comparison you are making is an exaggeration, at best.

Generations barely charted in the top 200. The band, once known for their live prowess, had resorted to shady Mili Vanilli tactics on-stage. Neal was drinking himself half to death nightly. Can't get much lower than that.

[The_Noble_Cause]

It has nothing to do with Smith/Valory. I don't miss them at all because what Journey has done since JSS joined has not interested me much at all.

You were unfairly critical of JSS's time in the band from what I recall.
You didn't change your view until 1) you actually attended a JSS-fronted show and 2) JSS called you out right here on MR.

Your attitude regarding Narada/Randy is the same BS you were doing during JSS.

Non-stop shit talk, all the time.

IMO, Narada is there simply because he's a kiss-ass to Neal. It seems to me that is what Neal wants the members of Journey to be...and every video I have seen of Narada, that is how he acts.

Narada's resume is insane. Like I said, the band is VERY VERY lucky to have him on-board.

[Eric]

You really do come off as an insufferable human being. My goodness.

Monker now acts like the miserable Perry-onlies from the 90's. Ironic since he was opposite of them then.

[jrnyman28]

You really do come off as an insufferable human being. My goodness.

Monker now acts like the miserable Perry-onlies from the 90's. Ironic since he was opposite of them then.

THIS

[Monker]

It has nothing to do with Smith/Valory. I don't miss them at all because what Journey has done since JSS joined has not interested me much at all.

You were unfairly critical of JSS's time in the band from what I recall.

I never felt JSS had the right voice for Journey and I repeatedly said so. So what.

You didn't change your view until 1) you actually attended a JSS-fronted show and 2) JSS called you out right here on MR.

I never changed my opinion of JSS being any type of fit for Journey. That is completely made up on your part.

JSS also never "called me out". At least I never felt that way. In fact, I don't think he really "called out" anybody...That doesn't seem to be who he is or why he was even posting here.

Here is the entirety of our conversation here:

Monker wrote:
Nope...cuz I wouldn't have bothered with tickets at that price if it were the band as they are now.


The_Noble_Cause wrote:
So you'd willingly pay 200 hard-earned smackers to go see a fucking street mime?


Monker wrote:
Nope...I just don't believe a damn word you guys are saying.

It's a different question anyway...Journey as they are now are not worth more then a free concert at a casino. That's the bottom line...and I think a lot of people are going to save their money if Journey tries to continue after this and tour solo.

JSS wrote:
Nice positive feedback, I love it, keep it coming...reminds me of Jane Curtain & Dan Aykroyd on SNL, point/counter point, see you at the free show, popcorn & soft drink included....AND GO!!!

Monker wrote:
Actually, that's basicaly what it is..."Dean, you ignorant slut...blah, blah, blah". Taking it any more serious then that is taking it WAY too seriously.

And, I'll reluctantly see you in Ames.

JSS wrote:
If reluctant, then why bother? Not being condescending, really interested in knowing why you'd come out if it's not what you want? Trust me, I do hope to turn you around with how things are this leg but honestly I would never see my favorite band with someone I didn't approve of fronting them...not even for free!

Either way, see you in IA, I'll be the one with the torn jeans!

-------

I didn't answer that because I already answered in the quotes above...I bought the tickets before JSS was hired.

After that, I did not change anything at all. I posted a review of the Journey/Def Leppard concert....said Journey were totally out classed by Def Leppard. Journey looked like a true opening band...not a "coheadliner". DL had the better stage, the better lighting and affects, they involved the crowd and it was obvious the crowd into them more. DL blew Journey away. JSS was OK. He did well with what he was given. But, I absolutely would not change my opinion from above quotes. Well, I was glad I bought the tickets cuz Def Leppard was fucking awesome.

I never had anything personal against JSS. His engagements on the forum were never disrespectful and he took the criticism well, and always seemed to have the attitude he had with me, "hope to win you over..."

I loved WET and I remember saying THAT is where JSS belongs and the type of band he should be in. I also loved the various Queen cover concerts he did. He should have joined Queen instead of Journey...the band would have done well with him.

Your attitude regarding Narada/Randy is the same BS you were doing during JSS.

No, it's not. With JSS, he was coming in mid-tour and replacing the lead singer after people (including me) bought tickets. Journey was already struggling with Augeri and they dropped another notch with JSS. They were NOT a headliner. Period. They were not good enough, they did not have the show for it, they did not even feel together as a band....especially when compared to Def Leppard.

Today's band isn't worth me even buying a ticket for..or going to a free show. It's been that way for a LONG TIME. They are Schon/Cain with a bunch of sidemen...and Cain going along with it. I'm tired of Neal's holy attitude and people treating him as if he rules Journey and always has. It has been that way since Eclipse. Journey is more than Neal Schon. It is more than Steve Perry, or Steve Augeri, or JSS or Arnel. Journey is more than Jonathan Cain or Gregg Rolie. It is about all of these people, along with the drummer and bassist, being treated as EQUALS, with EQUAL respect, with equal rights to the business of the band. That is where the greatness came from.

The greatness did not come from an attitude that the band was built around a specific person. It was not built around the idea of it of being a motorcycle sitting in the garage unused because you lost the keys. It was not built on the idea that if you owned the keys you can drive the band. Those are metaphors for MTV. It was built by Herbie to take Neal and put the best musicians he could find and put around him. To treat them all with respect and as a family. It was built with that idea, and to make money...lots of money. These ideas of grandiose involving Neal are bullshit.

Narada's resume is insane. Like I said, the band is VERY VERY lucky to have him on-board.

I don't care about his resume. Give the guy some pom poms and a skirt and he would look the part he is acting.

[Monker]

You really do come off as an insufferable human being. My goodness.

Monker now acts like the miserable Perry-onlies from the 90's. Ironic since he was opposite of them then.

THIS

I think it is Neal Schon who is acting like Steve Perry...ruling over the band. And, a lot of people seem to be kissing his ass the same way that some people kissed Steve Perry's.

Pretty soon someone will post that Neal could play lead for Gregorian chant, or somehow play the phone book, and they will buy the album.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I never changed my opinion of JSS being any type of fit for Journey. That is completely made up on your part.

JSS also never "called me out". At least I never felt that way. In fact, I don't think he really "called out" anybody...That doesn't seem to be who he is or why he was even posting here.

Here is the entirety of our conversation here:

Monker wrote:
Nope...cuz I wouldn't have bothered with tickets at that price if it were the band as they are now.


The_Noble_Cause wrote:
So you'd willingly pay 200 hard-earned smackers to go see a fucking street mime?


Monker wrote:
Nope...I just don't believe a damn word you guys are saying.

It's a different question anyway...Journey as they are now are not worth more then a free concert at a casino. That's the bottom line...and I think a lot of people are going to save their money if Journey tries to continue after this and tour solo.

JSS wrote:
Nice positive feedback, I love it, keep it coming...reminds me of Jane Curtain & Dan Aykroyd on SNL, point/counter point, see you at the free show, popcorn & soft drink included....AND GO!!!

Monker wrote:
Actually, that's basicaly what it is..."Dean, you ignorant slut...blah, blah, blah". Taking it any more serious then that is taking it WAY too seriously.

And, I'll reluctantly see you in Ames.

JSS wrote:
If reluctant, then why bother? Not being condescending, really interested in knowing why you'd come out if it's not what you want? Trust me, I do hope to turn you around with how things are this leg but honestly I would never see my favorite band with someone I didn't approve of fronting them...not even for free!

Either way, see you in IA, I'll be the one with the torn jeans!

-------

I didn't answer that because I already answered in the quotes above...I bought the tickets before JSS was hired.

After that, I did not change anything at all. I posted a review of the Journey/Def Leppard concert....said Journey were totally out classed by Def Leppard. Journey looked like a true opening band...not a "coheadliner". DL had the better stage, the better lighting and affects, they involved the crowd and it was obvious the crowd into them more. DL blew Journey away. JSS was OK. He did well with what he was given. But, I absolutely would not change my opinion from above quotes. Well, I was glad I bought the tickets cuz Def Leppard was fucking awesome.

I never had anything personal against JSS. His engagements on the forum were never disrespectful and he took the criticism well, and always seemed to have the attitude he had with me, "hope to win you over..."

I loved WET and I remember saying THAT is where JSS belongs and the type of band he should be in. I also loved the various Queen cover concerts he did. He should have joined Queen instead of Journey...the band would have done well with him.

Thanks for posting the whole exchange with JSS. Like I said, he called you out on your biased BS. I agree he took criticism well and engaged civilly and enthusiastically with fans.

I don't care about his resume. Give the guy some pom poms and a skirt and he would look the part he is acting.

Care to provide an example of past drummers (Aynsley, Smitty, Baird, Deen or Omar) "challenging Neal" or "pushing things in a defined direction"?
It seems you are holding Narada to a really really strange and random standard. The guy is excited about new Journey music. So am I. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

[Hustler]

IMO, Narada is a Yes-man who is just there because Neal knew him and had to fill a spot. How often do you hear of Narada challenging Neal, or any member of the band, to counter their ideas or push things in a defined direction? Hardly, if ever. He basically sits back, plays a Neal clip, and has a "Go Neal!" attitude, and that's about it...a yes-man, a cheerleader doing what he's told, liking what he's supposed to like.

I don't bother to comment over here often- but that statement about Narada was a stellar example of total ignorance. LMAO.

[JourneyHard]

IMO, Narada is there simply because he's a kiss-ass to Neal. It seems to me that is what Neal wants the members of Journey to be...and every video I have seen of Narada, that is how he acts.

This is 100% opposite of the truth. Narada is pushing Neal to be the best he can be. The proof is in the pudding. Wait for the new album to be released. Hell. Just wait until next Thursday for the single to be released.

[Monker]

IMO, Narada is there simply because he's a kiss-ass to Neal. It seems to me that is what Neal wants the members of Journey to be...and every video I have seen of Narada, that is how he acts.

This is 100% opposite of the truth. Narada is pushing Neal to be the best he can be. The proof is in the pudding. Wait for the new album to be released. Hell. Just wait until next Thursday for the single to be released.

Funny, you say my opinion is 100% not true...but then say to wait for the single.

Regardless of the single, it's my opinion and you can't "prove" it wrong.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Regardless of the single, it's my opinion and you can't "prove" it wrong.

An opinion based on bullshit (and some not-so-subtle racism) is not a valid opinion. In my opinion.

[Monker]

Regardless of the single, it's my opinion and you can't "prove" it wrong.

An opinion based on bullshit (and some not-so-subtle racism) is not a valid opinion. In my opinion.

And, an opinion based on hero worship and conceived through rose colored glasses is no better.