MR

Virtual studio performance from March 2021 with Styx's Todd S on drums. Somewhere, in a distant parallel universe, Kevin was hired to replace Perry in the late '80s and is still mightily at the mic.

https://youtu.be/-nEcAG_F-u8

Sounds pretty great

Bit of a crack pot but great singer still

Way back when (Skylord, Backtalk, et al.), I used to say "Get Chalfant. Bring back Rolie. Make Journey a six-piece."

No idea if Chalfant could handle even 50 shows a year at today's age, but back then I think it was a no-brainer.

Loved Augeri. Pineda was a good choice. But I still wonder what could have been.

Today, so far, the band is an awkward seven piece. It's just weird, and to me not really what Journey should be.


later~

youkeepmewaiting wrote:Sounds pretty great

Bit of a crack pot but great singer still

You know what, people change. Just look at Cain. Both him and KC have become part of the religious right. They are entitled to their views. Both talented guys - even if their politics are largely stupid.

Arkansas wrote:
Today, so far, the band is an awkward seven piece. It's just weird, and to me not really what Journey should be.

later~

Man, I'm loving it. The band feels and sounds more alive.

Arkansas wrote:Way back when (Skylord, Backtalk, et al.), I used to say "Get Chalfant. Bring back Rolie. Make Journey a six-piece."

No idea if Chalfant could handle even 50 shows a year at today's age, but back then I think it was a no-brainer.

Loved Augeri. Pineda was a good choice. But I still wonder what could have been.

Today, so far, the band is an awkward seven piece. It's just weird, and to me not really what Journey should be.


later~

I completely agree with this. It is exactly how I feel.

Today, I wouldn't curse Chalfant with wanting him to join Journey. He would probably disagree but it seems Journey eats people and spits them out when it feels ready to "change". I'd like to think the band that could have been in 1995 or so would still be the same today. But, Journey chose popularity over longevity when they went for the reunion.

Not that impressed with that cover.

Rolie should be part of Journey regardless of the lineup, so the Chalfant led version would have been interesting and definitely my preference over the Trial by Fire shit show that delayed a come back by years.

I don’t think Chalfant is in the same league as Arnel, though.

I still contend that replacing Perry proactively with Mickey Thomas in 1984 would have been the ideal move for forever. I still can’t believe how good he sounded on those Arrival cuts that ended up on his Over the Edge album. One World: https://youtu.be/b0XVCJFDABI

Monker wrote:Today, I wouldn't curse Chalfant with wanting him to join Journey. He would probably disagree but it seems Journey eats people and spits them out when it feels ready to "change".

If that was even remotely true, Augeri would have been fired already by 2003.

Eric wrote:I don’t think Chalfant is in the same league as Arnel, though.

At 66, I think Kevin C sounds great.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Monker wrote:Today, I wouldn't curse Chalfant with wanting him to join Journey. He would probably disagree but it seems Journey eats people and spits them out when it feels ready to "change".

If that was even remotely true, Augeri would have been fired already by 2003.

They knew Augeri was having vocal issuea. Instead of giving him time off and rest, they go into the 30th Anniversary tour...with an extended set. They went from that, right into recording Generations, and yet another tour opening for Def Leppard. NO REST. Then, when his voice was complete toast, they abandoned him, forced him to take the entirety of the blame - Neal, the band and management accepting NONE OF IT, and replaced him with JSS to go into a "new direction"

They ate him, chewed him up and spit him out for someone new. i

Monker wrote: Instead of giving him time off and rest, they go into the 30th Anniversary tour...with an extended set.

The first hour barely had SA singing - it was songs like Mystery Mountain or Daydream - then the band took an intermission before resuming with other songs - including lead vocals by Ross, Neal, Cain etc.

Nobody is denying it's a hard gig. But if they really wanted to chew him up and spit him out, why not make him sing the whole show?

Monker wrote: They went from that, right into recording Generations

I'm pretty sure this album was in the can and given out DURING the 30th anniversary tour.

Even if it wasn't, singing 8 songs in a controlled studio setting shouldn't really take a huge toll.

Monker wrote: Then, when his voice was complete toast, they abandoned him, forced him to take the entirety of the blame - Neal, the band and management accepting NONE OF IT, and replaced him with JSS to go into a "new direction"

Actually, the band circled the wagons and denied the use of tapes completely. Even called Deano (our friend) an alcoholic. Nobody accepted blame. They still don't.

I have a little different take on the handling of Augeri, but I don’t know how true some of this is AND it ultimately makes no difference what I think, of course. Up to Augeri, Schon and Cain .

I heard he originally blew out his voice in February of 2003 over-singing at a big venue (during a special one-off type of concert) at a rodeo. He struggled during the main event tour but gutted it out enough to get through 2004 where it ultimately gave out. Deen started singing a lot more on that tour. That tour - Detour 2004 - was a waste of time in my opinion with no new music or concept to tour behind. They played SOME longer “evening with” shows but not all. I think 2004 should have been a year off.

Years that were a waste:

- 2004
- 2012-2020

Eric wrote:I have a little different take on the handling of Augeri, but I don’t know how true some of this is AND it ultimately makes no difference what I think, of course. Up to Augeri, Schon and Cain .

I heard he originally blew out his voice in February of 2003 over-singing at a big venue (during a special one-off type of concert) at a rodeo. He struggled during the main event tour but gutted it out enough to get through 2004 where it ultimately gave out. Deen started singing a lot more on that tour. That tour - Detour 2004 - was a waste of time in my opinion with no new music or concept to tour behind. They played SOME longer “evening with” shows but not all. I think 2004 should have been a year off.

Years that were a waste:

- 2004
- 2012-2020

2004 is when Deen first started singing lead. Prolly should have happened alot earlier.

Watching this Main Event show, Augeri is working it out and hanging in there. The ending high notes on Faithfully (4:15 - 4:35 ) are obviously lipped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zxkByL6G18

Def. agree that 12-20 were a huge fucking waste.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I'm pretty sure this album was in the can and given out DURING the 30th anniversary tour.

Even if it wasn't, singing 8 songs in a controlled studio setting shouldn't really take a huge toll.

That is correct, Generations was handed out at the 30th Anniversary tour. However, I am pretty certain that Steve's vocal struggles were the real reason behind everyone getting lead vocals on Generations. He was struggling enough that even in a controlled studio setting he wasn't 100% reliable.

But it is no question the Journey machine was always pushing Augeri. They gave him a vocal coach to teach him a new way to sing that was supposed to help but I think it made Steve sing less naturally and sounding closer to Perry. Plus they were rebuilding their fanbase and were afraid of any time off to give Steve rest. Journey needed to continue their momentum.....the momentum that Augeri so gracefully created for them.

Monker wrote: Then, when his voice was complete toast, they abandoned him,

I completely agree with Monker on this point.

Eric wrote:That tour - Detour 2004 - was a waste of time in my opinion with no new music or concept to tour behind. ...... I think 2004 should have been a year off.

Detour 2004 was the best show I saw with Augeri singing. I always felt he really came into his own on that tour. It was a smaller market tour to reach outlier fans. It was necessary to keep rebuilding their fanbase.

jrnyman28 wrote:

Eric wrote:That tour - Detour 2004 - was a waste of time in my opinion with no new music or concept to tour behind. ...... I think 2004 should have been a year off.

Detour 2004 was the best show I saw with Augeri singing. I always felt he really came into his own on that tour. It was a smaller market tour to reach outlier fans. It was necessary to keep rebuilding their fanbase.

They played a lot of the regular markets in 2004, though, and 2002 was for the secondary and tertiary markets.

I think Augeri sounded the best in 2002. The whole bare feet let it go vibe. I'm really not sure it was all him in 2004.

jrnyman28 wrote:That is correct, Generations was handed out at the 30th Anniversary tour. However, I am pretty certain that Steve's vocal struggles were the real reason behind everyone getting lead vocals on Generations. He was struggling enough that even in a controlled studio setting he wasn't 100% reliable.

Augeri has admitted as much in recent interviews that they did the multiple vocalist thing to help him out.

Eric wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:

Eric wrote:That tour - Detour 2004 - was a waste of time in my opinion with no new music or concept to tour behind. ...... I think 2004 should have been a year off.

Detour 2004 was the best show I saw with Augeri singing. I always felt he really came into his own on that tour. It was a smaller market tour to reach outlier fans. It was necessary to keep rebuilding their fanbase.

They played a lot of the regular markets in 2004, though, and 2002 was for the secondary and tertiary markets.

I think Augeri sounded the best in 2002. The whole bare feet let it go vibe. I'm really not sure it was all him in 2004.

Correct.

2004 was Detour tour.
2002 was Under the Radar / Red 13 tour.

Kevin nails it. He should have been the person to replace Perry in 88. Then before going to Augeri and after Augeri left...but no Schon and Cain acted like crack heads at the time. What could have been.

Eric wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:

Eric wrote:That tour - Detour 2004 - was a waste of time in my opinion with no new music or concept to tour behind. ...... I think 2004 should have been a year off.

Detour 2004 was the best show I saw with Augeri singing. I always felt he really came into his own on that tour. It was a smaller market tour to reach outlier fans. It was necessary to keep rebuilding their fanbase.

They played a lot of the regular markets in 2004, though, and 2002 was for the secondary and tertiary markets.

I think Augeri sounded the best in 2002. The whole bare feet let it go vibe. I'm really not sure it was all him in 2004.

I may be confused then. I thought the barefoot vibe in the casinos and fairs was the Detour.....

Abitaman wrote:Kevin nails it. He should have been the person to replace Perry in 88. Then before going to Augeri and after Augeri left...but no Schon and Cain acted like crack heads at the time. What could have been.

Not true. It was NOT just Neal and Jonathan. They ALL met to decide the future of Journey at that point. It was documented in the lawsuit. Remember, Herbie and Nightmare declared an end to their licensing the Journey name to Elmo partners due to inactivity. That is where the Chalfant/Rolie version of Journey came into play. That was the direction Herbie wanted to take the band. But, Sony had other ideas and got Perry involved. So, they all had this big meeting, on a canceled FTLOSM tour date, and decided to go with the Escape/TBF reunion lineup. IMO, because they all looked at the success of the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over" reunion, the big $'s made, and they all wanted some of that cash...and I'm sure Sony paid them well...and IMO, regretted it when it all fell apart.,,and that is why they did not promote Arrival or restock it, Sony did not want to spend the money as they did with TBF, and that is why they parted ways after.

jrnyman28 wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I'm pretty sure this album was in the can and given out DURING the 30th anniversary tour.

Even if it wasn't, singing 8 songs in a controlled studio setting shouldn't really take a huge toll.

That is correct, Generations was handed out at the 30th Anniversary tour. However, I am pretty certain that Steve's vocal struggles were the real reason behind everyone getting lead vocals on Generations. He was struggling enough that even in a controlled studio setting he wasn't 100% reliable.

But it is no question the Journey machine was always pushing Augeri. They gave him a vocal coach to teach him a new way to sing that was supposed to help but I think it made Steve sing less naturally and sounding closer to Perry. Plus they were rebuilding their fanbase and were afraid of any time off to give Steve rest. Journey needed to continue their momentum.....the momentum that Augeri so gracefully created for them.

Monker wrote: Then, when his voice was complete toast, they abandoned him,

I completely agree with Monker on this point.

That is exactly what I am getting at. Tour, tour, tour, and more touring. And, they KNEW Augeri needed a break. Also, according to the ONE article about this, a guy was in the sound booth listening to Augeri struggle and thought "poor guy", but when he went in front of the stage, he heard a perfect vocal and did not understand why or how. So, Augeri was NOT "lipping". He was singing..."someone" simply turned his vocals down/off and turned up the prerecorded track.

Monker wrote:

That is exactly what I am getting at. Tour, tour, tour, and more touring. And, they KNEW Augeri needed a break. Also, according to the ONE article about this, a guy was in the sound booth listening to Augeri struggle and thought "poor guy", but when he went in front of the stage, he heard a perfect vocal and did not understand why or how. So, Augeri was NOT "lipping". He was singing..."someone" simply turned his vocals down/off and turned up the prerecorded track.

Yup. Miming vs lipping.

Monker wrote:Also, according to the ONE article about this, a guy was in the sound booth listening to Augeri struggle and thought "poor guy", but when he went in front of the stage, he heard a perfect vocal and did not understand why or how. So, Augeri was NOT "lipping". He was singing..."someone" simply turned his vocals down/off and turned up the prerecorded track.

As mentioned at the time of this humiliating fiasco, why was Augeri hiding his mouth with a mic cap fuzzier than Chaka Khan's pussy?

The guy in the sound booth who spilled the beans - Svente - didn't write an article. He posted on a board about it. He then even posted here.

The "someone" in charge of switching from live to pre-recorded is most likely Kevin Elson. Andrew had an interview scheduled with him around the time this all broke and Elson (unsurprisingly) cancelled.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Monker wrote:Also, according to the ONE article about this, a guy was in the sound booth listening to Augeri struggle and thought "poor guy", but when he went in front of the stage, he heard a perfect vocal and did not understand why or how. So, Augeri was NOT "lipping". He was singing..."someone" simply turned his vocals down/off and turned up the prerecorded track.

As mentioned at the time of this humiliating fiasco, why was Augeri hiding his mouth with a mic cap fuzzier than Chaka Khan's pussy?

And, this is why I had a huge problem taking anything you guys said seriously. You are making stuff up. You don't know the intent of using that mic...so you just assume things and pile on the bullshit. As I said back then, I literally saw a singer using this exact type of mic and I know she was not using any type of prerecorded tapes, too new and no reason to.

The guy in the sound booth who spilled the beans - Svente - didn't write an article. He posted on a board about it. He then even posted here.

The "someone" in charge of switching from live to pre-recorded is most likely Kevin Elson. Andrew had an interview scheduled with him around the time this all broke and Elson (unsurprisingly) cancelled.[/quote]

That is more to the facts. IMO, someone was simply listening to the live feed and had permission to adjust as necessary. And, that means that Augeri was always singing...not miming, not lipping, he was singing and the adjustment was done in the sound booth.

Monker wrote:And, this is why I had a huge problem taking anything you guys said seriously. You are making stuff up. You don't know the intent of using that mic...so you just assume things and pile on the bullshit. As I said back then, I literally saw a singer using this exact type of mic and I know she was not using any type of prerecorded tapes, too new and no reason to.

It's obvious you haven't looked very deep into this...

It's not just the sudden usage of a larger mic head.
It's how Augeri was holding it less than an inch from his face in many cases to obscure his mouth. It's basic vocal mic dynamics 101. Go to karaoke tonight and see if you can sing like that.

And this all coincided with the widespread usage of tapes in 2005. Which first came to light from fans (like me) getting sent bootlegs and noticing it was the same vocal each and every fucking night!

But the scandal was confirmed by a 100% reliable source before I approached Deano with it, so all this circumstantial tea leaf reading is meaningless. It happened.

Monker wrote:That is more to the facts. IMO, someone was simply listening to the live feed and had permission to adjust as necessary. And, that means that Augeri was always singing...not miming, not lipping, he was singing and the adjustment was done in the sound booth.

You're making assumptions about how much of the show Svente actually listened to. There were parts of the show (usually the end of a song) where the mic was turned on live. We never denied that.

I'm not going to relitigate the entire Augeri era.

The mic thing isn't proof of anything other than people were looking at anything to pile on Augeri. At the time I literally posted a lady using the exact same mic in the exact same way Augeri was. You are simply connecting dots without any real evidence that there is a connection.

You literally just started and deleted a thread critiquing Augeri's vocals. Your complaint was it is not right to critique him using poor quality YouTube videos, sometimes the vocals are good and sometimes not. But, this is EXACTLY what you guys were doing back then. It is again your biased interpretation of comparing these things. I was never super impressed by any of it. It is not factual...it is you comparing and making a judgement call.

The only real evidence that was ever presented was Sven. What he said indicated to me that someone in the booth manipulated prerecorded vocals and live vocals - But, Augeri absolutely sang the songs...even if his live voice was not broadcast.

Your "inside source" has never revealed himself and offered up his 'evidence' himself. What you are offering is hearsay...someone telling you something and then you repeating your biased interpurion.

Dean once implied to me that it was Neal. That is not very impressive to me. Neal lies, exagerates, and schemes to get what he wants. He essentially used Dean to get Augeri fired. In the end, I think Dean knew he was being used.

That is my thoughts on all this, and has been for 20yrs or so. It's not going to change just cuz you post some more opinions and not facts.

The mic thing isn't proof of anything other than people were looking at anything to pile on Augeri. At the time I literally posted a lady using the exact same mic in the exact same way Augeri was.

This omits the fact that Augeri never used this mic technique before in his entire history in the band. The lady's behavior isn't conspicuous or noteworthy because 1) I'm not familiar with her and 2) I have no frame of reference for her previous live mannerisms. This would only be a valid comparison *IF* her singing technique changed suddenly (like Augeri's did) and all her live vocals became identical.

You literally just started and deleted a thread critiquing Augeri's vocals. Your complaint was it is not right to critique him using poor quality YouTube videos, sometimes the vocals are good and sometimes not.

Celebrity vocal coach, Ken Tamplin, posted a YT video comparing ALL the Journey singers. He then hailed Deen as the best. It was ridiculous video. Nobody cared, so I deleted the MR thread on it. The Augeri video he used for critique was a camcorder shot bootleg of 'Faithfully" from the Arrival tour. Ken winces several times and basically says Augeri was not up to the task.

If anything the video lends credence to the tape allegations later on.

Feel free to re-start the thread if you want.

But, this is EXACTLY what you guys were doing back then. It is again your biased interpretation of comparing these things.

Not even close. Jeremey was even on here comparing sound waves from multiple audio files. Dean's blog posted multiple examples. Ken Tamplin, meanwhile, used ONE isolated example (a brief clip of Faithfully from 2001) to make a judgement on an entire singer's abilities.

I was never super impressed by any of it. It is not factual...it is you comparing and making a judgement call.

We never needed or wanted your approval. Fans without the ability to discern the fraud was the intended audience by Azoff and co. You were the easy mark. If left up to stone-deaf fans like you, the band would likely no longer exist - or still be miming.

The only real evidence that was ever presented was Sven. What he said indicated to me that someone in the booth manipulated prerecorded vocals and live vocals - But, Augeri absolutely sang the songs...even if his live voice was not broadcast.

Not sure how this qualifies as real evidence. Can you even prove Sven was there? By your own standard, this could very very easily be dismissed as hearsay (even tho it wasn't).

Your "inside source" has never revealed himself and offered up his 'evidence' himself. What you are offering is hearsay...someone telling you something and then you repeating your biased interpurion.

You just posted an example of hearsay (Sven) as "real evidence." What a joke.

Dean once implied to me that it was Neal. That is not very impressive to me. Neal lies, exagerates, and schemes to get what he wants. He essentially used Dean to get Augeri fired. In the end, I think Dean knew he was being used.

While I was privy to a phone call from Neal to Dean about the situation, Neal was never ever the source. Sorry.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Monker wrote: Instead of giving him time off and rest, they go into the 30th Anniversary tour...with an extended set.

The first hour barely had SA singing - it was songs like Mystery Mountain or Daydream - then the band took an intermission before resuming with other songs - including lead vocals by Ross, Neal, Cain etc.

Nobody is denying it's a hard gig. But if they really wanted to chew him up and spit him out, why not make him sing the whole show?

Truthfully, warming up, then sitting idle for an hour while they do old instrumental stuff, and then being expected to come out at 100% at the end of that first set and into the second one when your voice has cooled off probably did more damage than the previous tours.

kgdjpubs wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Monker wrote: Instead of giving him time off and rest, they go into the 30th Anniversary tour...with an extended set.

The first hour barely had SA singing - it was songs like Mystery Mountain or Daydream - then the band took an intermission before resuming with other songs - including lead vocals by Ross, Neal, Cain etc.

Nobody is denying it's a hard gig. But if they really wanted to chew him up and spit him out, why not make him sing the whole show?

Truthfully, warming up, then sitting idle for an hour while they do old instrumental stuff, and then being expected to come out at 100% at the end of that first set and into the second one when your voice has cooled off probably did more damage than the previous tours.

From what I remember, he played guitar, contributed bg vocals, even did 1 or 2 leads.... I really wouldn't call that "sitting idle" for an hour.