MR

Neal posted on Facebook a vid of him playing. The caption for his video had the 2022 tour information, and so I asked him who would be playing bass for the tour. He replied Todd Jensen. Seems like Randy is officially out of the band beyond maybe some publicity for when the album releases.

https://fb.watch/9jIiAGf1zT/

Kind of a bummer, I’m sure more than a few of us were hoping we would get a surprise and he would play on tour for at least some of the shows.

Sorta like how they jumped the gun in announcing JSS as Augeri's replacement....

jrnyman28 wrote:Sorta like how they jumped the gun in announcing JSS as Augeri's replacement....

If he was ever really actually in band at all in the first place.

ebake02 wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:Sorta like how they jumped the gun in announcing JSS as Augeri's replacement....

If he was ever really actually in band at all in the first place.

Of course he was. They even sent out a press release saying he was official.

DK23 wrote:Neal posted on Facebook a vid of him playing. The caption for his video had the 2022 tour information, and so I asked him who would be playing bass for the tour. He replied Todd Jensen. Seems like Randy is officially out of the band beyond maybe some publicity for when the album releases.

https://fb.watch/9jIiAGf1zT/

Kind of a bummer, I’m sure more than a few of us were hoping we would get a surprise and he would play on tour for at least some of the shows.

It's disappointing. But at least we have him on the new cd. The one press release I read says this about the tour lineup...

"JOURNEY features founder Neal Schon (lead guitarist), Jonathan Cain (keyboards, backing vocals), Arnel Pineda (lead vocals) Jason Derlatka (keyboards, backing vocals), and Deen Castranovo (drums, backing vocals)."

For whatever reason, they are leaving the bassist position open.

Too bad it didn’t go to Marco. He’s awesome .

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

DK23 wrote:Neal posted on Facebook a vid of him playing. The caption for his video had the 2022 tour information, and so I asked him who would be playing bass for the tour. He replied Todd Jensen. Seems like Randy is officially out of the band beyond maybe some publicity for when the album releases.

https://fb.watch/9jIiAGf1zT/

Kind of a bummer, I’m sure more than a few of us were hoping we would get a surprise and he would play on tour for at least some of the shows.

It's disappointing. But at least we have him on the new cd. The one press release I read says this about the tour lineup...

"JOURNEY features founder Neal Schon (lead guitarist), Jonathan Cain (keyboards, backing vocals), Arnel Pineda (lead vocals) Jason Derlatka (keyboards, backing vocals), and Deen Castranovo (drums, backing vocals)."

For whatever reason, they are leaving the bassist position open.

I'm sure they left it open because Todd isn't a "member" and might not be available for all the dates.

Marco would be awesome, but I think he already has commitments (at least for the time being.)

jrnyman28 wrote:I'm sure they left it open because Todd isn't a "member" and might not be available for all the dates.

Deen and Arnel are not "member's" either. Schon and Cain are the only member's of Journey.

If you read Ross's counter suit you will see that the agreement for the Pretenders tour named the players in the band. So, Todd Jensen is named in the tour contract but Schon/Cain do not want him permanent or left him out of the tour contract so they can be Spinal Tap and have the bass player be whoever decides to show up.

All throughout the pandemic, we were led to believe the "new" Journey would be Randy on bass and Narada on drums. Now, we get neither one. Really disappointing.

Monker wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:I'm sure they left it open because Todd isn't a "member" and might not be available for all the dates.

Deen and Arnel are not "member's" either. Schon and Cain are the only member's of Journey.

If you read Ross's counter suit you will see that the agreement for the Pretenders tour named the players in the band. So, Todd Jensen is named in the tour contract but Schon/Cain do not want him permanent or left him out of the tour contract so they can be Spinal Tap and have the bass player be whoever decides to show up.

Semantics, you know what I meant. Arnel may not be a controlling member, he may be contractual, but he is a member of Journey. Deen, with his history, may also be contractual, but he is accepted as a member. Todd, is likely 100% a touring fill-in.

FamilyMan wrote:All throughout the pandemic, we were led to believe the "new" Journey would be Randy on bass and Narada on drums. Now, we get neither one. Really disappointing.

They are the bassist and drummer on the new album, but for touring it was only for that 2020 tour that never happened I think. I think Arnel really needs Deen-O.

jrnyman28 wrote:Semantics, you know what I meant. Arnel may not be a controlling member, he may be contractual, but he is a member of Journey. Deen, with his history, may also be contractual, but he is accepted as a member. Todd, is likely 100% a touring fill-in.

No, you are wrong. It is NOT "semantics". It is the truth. The Journey name is licensed to whatever corporate entity Schon and Cain call themselves now. Just as ROR Journey was Perry/Schon/Cain because "Journey" was licensed to Elmo, Schon/Cain are now "Journey" because they are who have the name licensed to them. The vocals, the drums, and the bass are no longer part of the band. All of this "accepted as a member', "controlling member" and touring fill-in are simply not true...they are things you are making up to avoid the FACT that Journey IS Schon/Cain.

I understand that Neal and Jon own the name so they "are Journey", but Arnel was hired to be the singer in Journey as a member of the band. And before him, Deen was hired to be the drummer as a member of the band. If you recall, what Journey moved on without Perry they were required to list the members of the band on the cover of Arrival, that included Steve and Deen. There was a press release announcing Narada and Randy as members of Journey. Todd is likely only hired as a touring member.

It is possible to be a hired member of the band, hired by the owners of the name....

Monker wrote:So, Todd Jensen is named in the tour contract but Schon/Cain do not want him permanent or left him out of the tour contract so they can be Spinal Tap and have the bass player be whoever decides to show up.

2021 tour contract isn't public as far as I'm aware. Where are you getting this information? You are just making shit up again. Haters used to say Augeri was just a "hired hand" "lapdog" "doormat" etc. Then it turned out he was basically treated as a full member. You don't know anything.

FamilyMan wrote:All throughout the pandemic, we were led to believe the "new" Journey would be Randy on bass and Narada on drums. Now, we get neither one. Really disappointing.

Totally agree.

A few thoughts....

If the band can't afford management and had to drop QPrime, I doubt they can afford to pay Randy and Narada on tour. Randy was promoting upcoming Journey appearances like Lollapalooza on social media. Then he stopped. What happened? Did the band make an offer and he refused?

When hiring replacement musicians, most 70s-80s bands downgrade for financial reasons. The announcement of Randy and Narada piqued my interest, in part, because it was a rhythm section upgrade! Todd is a competent seasoned bassist. Maybe even a great one. But he's not a household name. I give Deen a pass because of his history with the band. But overall, neither of these guys (Todd and Deen) have the stature of Randy and Narada.

The consolation is we get the new album with Randy and Narada (hopefully).

Has Neal commented on FB or Twitter about Randy/Narada's status or relationship with the band?

If he does, please be sure to link here.

I'm disappointed by Randy's absence because I think it'd generate considerable buzz and publicity for a band that's otherwise in the nadir of its career. Failing that, I'd really like Marco Mendoza in the band. He has the look, the voice, the chops, and the rock swagger/energy.

Could Randy's health / back be a factor?

While I was hoping Randy (& Narada) would be with them one tour, I'm much more disappointed that Marco won't be on this tour. I've hoped he'd eventually be with Journey since the Soul SirkUS days.

Neal is still posting that Randy is healing from back surgery.

Neal and Jon do NOT own the Journey name. Nightmare does. They license the use to Neal and Jon's corporate entity....that is Journey. All these other people are EMPLOYEES of Journey.

Listing the players on Arrival was to show to the public that Steve Perry was not in the band. It was not some type of proof of anything beyond that.

Neals lawsuit boldly claimed that Smith and Vallory were Sidemen. That is how JOURNEY views them. Meaningless and replaceable...and that is how they have been treated for the past year or so.

jrnyman28 wrote:I understand that Neal and Jon own the name so they "are Journey", but Arnel was hired to be the singer in Journey as a member of the band. And before him, Deen was hired to be the drummer as a member of the band. If you recall, what Journey moved on without Perry they were required to list the members of the band on the cover of Arrival, that included Steve and Deen. There was a press release announcing Narada and Randy as members of Journey. Todd is likely only hired as a touring member.

It is possible to be a hired member of the band, hired by the owners of the name....

Monker wrote:Neal and Jon do NOT own the Journey name. Nightmare does. They license the use to Neal and Jon's corporate entity....that is Journey. All these other people are EMPLOYEES of Journey.

Listing the players on Arrival was to show to the public that Steve Perry was not in the band. It was not some type of proof of anything beyond that.

Neals lawsuit boldly claimed that Smith and Vallory were Sidemen. That is how JOURNEY views them. Meaningless and replaceable...and that is how they have been treated for the past year or so.

jrnyman28 wrote:I understand that Neal and Jon own the name so they "are Journey", but Arnel was hired to be the singer in Journey as a member of the band. And before him, Deen was hired to be the drummer as a member of the band. If you recall, what Journey moved on without Perry they were required to list the members of the band on the cover of Arrival, that included Steve and Deen. There was a press release announcing Narada and Randy as members of Journey. Todd is likely only hired as a touring member.

It is possible to be a hired member of the band, hired by the owners of the name....

Legal disputes, contracts and Neal rants not withstanding, the FANS care who's on stage with them. I think Journey managed to fill arenas again in recent years in part because it was the closest thing to the Escape/Frontiers lineup since Perry left.

Exactly....and they could have taken that lineup on tour for a 40th anniversary of the Escape album.

Monker wrote:Exactly....and they could have taken that lineup on tour for a 40th anniversary of the Escape album.

Yes...this is too bad. I hope Randy gets better.

FamilyMan wrote:
Legal disputes, contracts and Neal rants not withstanding, the FANS care who's on stage with them. I think Journey managed to fill arenas again in recent years in part because it was the closest thing to the Escape/Frontiers lineup since Perry left.

The average fan doesn't give a damn about who's on stage, as long as they sound like the Journey they grew up with. Most of my friends that are good but casual Journey fans have no idea who is playing base or drums, etc. They still refer to Arnel as "the guy from the Philippines that sounds like Steve Perry". The hard core fans, yes, stuff like this matters. But for the most people don't care about the individual players.

Onestepper wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:
Legal disputes, contracts and Neal rants not withstanding, the FANS care who's on stage with them. I think Journey managed to fill arenas again in recent years in part because it was the closest thing to the Escape/Frontiers lineup since Perry left.

The average fan doesn't give a damn about who's on stage, as long as they sound like the Journey they grew up with. Most of my friends that are good but casual Journey fans have no idea who is playing base or drums, etc. They still refer to Arnel as "the guy from the Philippines that sounds like Steve Perry". The hard core fans, yes, stuff like this matters. But for the most people don't care about the individual players.

Agreed. Fans have been flocking back for 20+ years - 2018 wasn’t nearly as big as 2008. And if folks are ok with a different singer they sure as shit don’t care about Ross Valory. As good as Steve Smith is…Deen-O “that drummer who sings” may be more recognizable to concert goers today. He toured with them a lot longer than Smith did.

FamilyMan wrote: I think Journey managed to fill arenas again in recent years in part because it was the closest thing to the Escape/Frontiers lineup since Perry left.

Thoughts are not facts unfortunately. Steve Smith is a drum legend, but to casual fans......eh, nobody cares.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:The consolation is we get the new album with Randy and Narada (hopefully).

What do you mean hopefully? Are they going to re-record Randy's parts and Narada's parts for the albums with other players?
Or do you think the album will never be released?

Onestepper wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:
Legal disputes, contracts and Neal rants not withstanding, the FANS care who's on stage with them. I think Journey managed to fill arenas again in recent years in part because it was the closest thing to the Escape/Frontiers lineup since Perry left.

The average fan doesn't give a damn about who's on stage, as long as they sound like the Journey they grew up with. Most of my friends that are good but casual Journey fans have no idea who is playing base or drums, etc. They still refer to Arnel as "the guy from the Philippines that sounds like Steve Perry". The hard core fans, yes, stuff like this matters. But for the most people don't care about the individual players.

With some creative marketing, they would care.

Create a YouTube video where on the left side you clips from the MTV Escape concert, on the right side have clips from modern concerts...have "Then" and "Now" above each. Go through each band member and show a clip of them performing DSB. At the bottom of the screen, announce each member. When it gets to Arnel, have Perry's HOF quote posted where he endorsed Arnel. At the end have a Journey logo displayed and an announcer say, "Journey presents a celebration of their most successful album." The Journey logo turns into an Escape logo and the Perry audio is heard from the Escape concert where he announced Escape was the #1 album in the nation. Then "On tour 2020 - 2021"....or whatever dates it would have been.

Have that youtube be an made into an ad on Facebook and Twitter.

THEN people would care.

No. Then everyone would again argue that without Perry it doesn't matter...

The band cannot do anything "offically" to remind people of Perry's tenure.

They cannot get Steve Perry to tour with them, but Journey can get a hologram of Steve Perry projected on the stage, and performing the dirty dozen. Then people would care!

Monker wrote:

Onestepper wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:
Legal disputes, contracts and Neal rants not withstanding, the FANS care who's on stage with them. I think Journey managed to fill arenas again in recent years in part because it was the closest thing to the Escape/Frontiers lineup since Perry left.

The average fan doesn't give a damn about who's on stage, as long as they sound like the Journey they grew up with. Most of my friends that are good but casual Journey fans have no idea who is playing base or drums, etc. They still refer to Arnel as "the guy from the Philippines that sounds like Steve Perry". The hard core fans, yes, stuff like this matters. But for the most people don't care about the individual players.

With some creative marketing, they would care.

Create a YouTube video where on the left side you clips from the MTV Escape concert, on the right side have clips from modern concerts...have "Then" and "Now" above each. Go through each band member and show a clip of them performing DSB. At the bottom of the screen, announce each member. When it gets to Arnel, have Perry's HOF quote posted where he endorsed Arnel. At the end have a Journey logo displayed and an announcer say, "Journey presents a celebration of their most successful album." The Journey logo turns into an Escape logo and the Perry audio is heard from the Escape concert where he announced Escape was the #1 album in the nation. Then "On tour 2020 - 2021"....or whatever dates it would have been.

Have that youtube be an made into an ad on Facebook and Twitter.

THEN people would care.

Oh no they wouldn't. No one, outside of the hard core fans, even know who Jonathan Cain is, or that he co-wrote DSB,and Open Amrs and Faithfully. More people think Perry wrote those songs, or just "Journey". Maybe a few more people have heard of Schon, but he still is not even near a household name.

Some of you wildly over estimate how much this stuff means to the average fan. No one cares about lawsuits, who owns the Journey name, or the internal struggles and relationship drama of the band. They just hear Journey is coming to town and buy a ticket.

It's really not that complicated.