MR

Here's "Separate Ways" and "Girl Can't Help It" filmed by a fan last night (12/01). Biggest takeaway from watching this footage is: Todd loves slapping the bass. Also Todd's bg vocals are really loud - like a loud baritone.

https://youtu.be/qSSF56p9u-U

https://youtu.be/Cn1Tt1GbBkU

Todd looks different from the Hardline days, aside from the shorter hair and inevitable aging. I wouldn't have recognized him at all.

I just saw that Marco still has the Vegas dates listed on his website. Was he unable to be there for some reason or was he unavailable for the dates beginning in February, so they decided to have Todd do the Vegas dates as well? When DK23 said Neal told him on FB that Todd would be playing bass for the tour, I was hoping Neal really meant Vegas and that Marco would be back in February. I'm sure Todd is plenty adequate but I am still holding out hope that Marco will be back at some point. Could this be a situation where Jonathan didn't take to Marco? I met Marco at a Soul SirkUS show and he seems like as nice a guy as you'd meet in the business. But we are talking about Jon....

NoMoreTails wrote:Todd looks different from the Hardline days, aside from the shorter hair and inevitable aging. I wouldn't have recognized him at all.

I just saw that Marco still has the Vegas dates listed on his website. Was he unable to be there for some reason or was he unavailable for the dates beginning in February, so they decided to have Todd do the Vegas dates as well? When DK23 said Neal told him on FB that Todd would be playing bass for the tour, I was hoping Neal really meant Vegas and that Marco would be back in February. I'm sure Todd is plenty adequate but I am still holding out hope that Marco will be back at some point. Could this be a situation where Jonathan didn't take to Marco? I met Marco at a Soul SirkUS show and he seems like as nice a guy as you'd meet in the business. But we are talking about Jon....

By "tour", I assumed Neal means Todd will be there for the Freedom tour. Who knows. Both Marco and Todd have great energy.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

NoMoreTails wrote:Todd looks different from the Hardline days, aside from the shorter hair and inevitable aging. I wouldn't have recognized him at all.

I just saw that Marco still has the Vegas dates listed on his website. Was he unable to be there for some reason or was he unavailable for the dates beginning in February, so they decided to have Todd do the Vegas dates as well? When DK23 said Neal told him on FB that Todd would be playing bass for the tour, I was hoping Neal really meant Vegas and that Marco would be back in February. I'm sure Todd is plenty adequate but I am still holding out hope that Marco will be back at some point. Could this be a situation where Jonathan didn't take to Marco? I met Marco at a Soul SirkUS show and he seems like as nice a guy as you'd meet in the business. But we are talking about Jon....

By "tour", I assumed Neal means Todd will be there for the Freedom tour. Who knows. Both Marco and Todd have great energy.

I would assume that as well, but hoped Neal didn't pay close attention to DK23's question, most likely just wishful thinking however.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Here's "Separate Ways" and "Girl Can't Help It" filmed by a fan last night (12/01). Biggest takeaway from watching this footage is: Todd loves slapping the bass. Also Todd's bg vocals are really loud - like a loud baritone.

https://youtu.be/qSSF56p9u-U

https://youtu.be/Cn1Tt1GbBkU

Adding this one: Who's Crying Now: https://youtu.be/gQkz7G2ms3U

My take: the mix is horrid - hence Todd being so far forward in the mix - his loud baritone is up to the sound engineer to blend in.

And Arnel is now using autotune - it's on full display on the held notes (listen to them gliz up and down quickly - that's the autotune trying to grab the note.)

...and here's Be Good to Yourself: https://youtu.be/86Csc1ciRhU

Arnel's voice is already shot at this point...

tedpruitt wrote:...and here's Be Good to Yourself: https://youtu.be/86Csc1ciRhU

Arnel's voice is already shot at this point...

He sounds good on the slower-tempo ballads (like Who's Cryin Now) - which is to be expected.

BGTY - like alot of fast paced rockers - is alot harder to sing.

If you listen to live bootlegs (and maybe you already have), I have heard Augeri and Pineda butcher BGTY.

tedpruitt wrote:And Arnel is now using autotune - it's on full display on the held notes (listen to them gliz up and down quickly - that's the autotune trying to grab the note.)

Eh, if it's there, it's very very slight.

Here are some more:

Only the Young: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4-EyNGjwN4 (Rough start; good finish)

Wheel in the Sky: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfyrsxApqXM (Great Middle with My Hometown)

LTS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDMMIHLI_nw (Arnel with a different end)

I'll be alright with yo ass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcaeSFFV5-Y (Derelakta)

Lights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asyWI-YMxvo (Includes Stay Awhile intro)

Don't Stop Believin': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAk35RiId9M (Met expectations)

Open Arms: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1rCl7RPgSk (Arnel sounded really good to me)

The Way we used to be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNnzE4j5aEk (Happy they played new stuff)

Ask the Lonely: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSXj_L4Xz7U (Fine)

Still they ride: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZccXi_m310 (Love it! My fave of the night of I've seen)

Anyway You want it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF7KyvMfZxA (Solid)

Listening to songs like "Still They Ride", he is definitely struggling. He works it out, but I really don't know what the band is going to do in the long term.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

tedpruitt wrote:And Arnel is now using autotune - it's on full display on the held notes (listen to them gliz up and down quickly - that's the autotune trying to grab the note.)

Eh, if it's there, it's very very slight.

You're probably right - I've been a studio recording engineer for 20 plus years - it jumps out at me, but likely because my ears are atuned to it. It's not constant - they are bringing it in and out - mostly on the high sustained notes, along with some extra verb/echo. Look, the poor guy is just getting his cords raked over the coals with this catalog - it's good that they are sticking with him. An occasional cheat at this point, at this age, to keep going - it's not that big of a deal. But the FOH mix really needs some work.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

tedpruitt wrote:...and here's Be Good to Yourself: https://youtu.be/86Csc1ciRhU

Arnel's voice is already shot at this point...

He sounds good on the slower-tempo ballads (like Who's Cryin Now) - which is to be expected.

BGTY - like alot of fast paced rockers - is alot harder to sing.

If you listen to live bootlegs (and maybe you already have), I have heard Augeri and Pineda butcher BGTY.

Hell - even Perry would really chop his phrasing to get through BGTY live, but SP was already struggling by the ROR tour - a huge part of why those tour bootlegs all sound like the chipmunks on speed. Racing through the phrasing to get through the song and the notes.

That's another thing I can't figure out - surely they are getting Arnel some kind of vocal coaching. But it seems like he insists on holding and stretching out every note. It might be his style - but man, it's just not good for long term touring. You look back at Perry in his prime, when he could hit those notes without a second thought - and even on the Departure and Escape tours, he was very judicious with his phrasing. Chopping where necessary to save up for the money notes, rather than stretching the phrasing unnecessarily.

Anyone get the full setlist yet? I haven't run across it......its cool they brought back "Girl Can't Help It" based on the posted clips!

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Listening to songs like "Still They Ride", he is definitely struggling. He works it out, but I really don't know what the band is going to do in the long term.

Curious why they stopped having Dean sing STR. He was fantastic. Unless he also just felt it was too much for him.

Also, for the most part like the versions Jason puts out, but it's just awkward to have him stand behind his keyboard and sing near the back of the stage. I guess they don't have a lot of other options.

Onestepper wrote:Curious why they stopped having Dean sing STR. He was fantastic. Unless he also just felt it was too much for him.

I could be wrong, but I feel like they alternate. Sometimes Deen does STR, sometimes AP

Also, for the most part like the versions Jason puts out, but it's just awkward to have him stand behind his keyboard and sing near the back of the stage. I guess they don't have a lot of other options.

Is this really any more awkward than a guy singing behind the drum kit? I think it's fine.

Set list Night 2:

1) Intro/Separate Ways
2) Only the Young
3) Guitar intro/Stone In Love
4) Be Good to Yourself
5) Back to the way it used to be
6) Ask the Lonely
7) I’ll Be Alright without you (Derelkta)
Lights
9) Escape
10) La Do Da / Drum solo
11) Piano solo-ballad montage / Who’s Cryin’ Now
12) Guitar intro / Wheel in the Sky w/My Hometown
13) Mother, Father (DeenO)
14) Faithfully
15) Lovin’ Touchin’ Squeezin’
16) Open Arms
17) Anyway you want it
18) Don’t Stop Believin’

No encore

1:47 total time

Nice, thanks Eric!

tedpruitt wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Here's "Separate Ways" and "Girl Can't Help It" filmed by a fan last night (12/01). Biggest takeaway from watching this footage is: Todd loves slapping the bass. Also Todd's bg vocals are really loud - like a loud baritone.

https://youtu.be/qSSF56p9u-U

https://youtu.be/Cn1Tt1GbBkU

Adding this one: Who's Crying Now: https://youtu.be/gQkz7G2ms3U

My take: the mix is horrid - hence Todd being so far forward in the mix - his loud baritone is up to the sound engineer to blend in.

And Arnel is now using autotune - it's on full display on the held notes (listen to them gliz up and down quickly - that's the autotune trying to grab the note.)

I don't hear autotune here- maybe I need to listen more closely. I THOUGHT I did in the 'Open Arms' clip, but as I listened, there were times where AP was a tad flat (hey, it's live singing, it happens and he's singing the hardest stuff in the biz) in spots, so that made me think 'probably not'. In WCN, his pitch sounds pretty dead on. That could be AT or not. AT is pretty standard these days. Doesn't mean I'm a fan, but if I can't hear that 'answering machine thing' of when it's obvious, I don't really mind. Never tried it live. Re: Todd's voice being a bit up in the mix, I don't think it hurts it at all. In the Infinity/Evolution days, the harmonies were mixed more as 'all the same volume' (listen to Anytime/Lights/LTS, etc.). When they got to Escape, they kind of changed that and put the harmonies back in the mix a bit from then on, which, to me, wasn't as cool. They did bring that back in 'Girl Can't Help It' and for me, those harmonies make the song my favorite on the album. Here, I think it makes the harmony more full. Maybe just my opinion. I do think Arnel sounds stronger lately.
Re: 'Be Good To Yourself' watch Perry do it in the 'Raised on Radio' special. He also had a tough time with it. The beginning of this would negate the Autotune comment. His pitch is off a bit in parts. Here, APs voice could be louder in the choruses. That's on the sound guy. I've heard some really crappy mixes live. This isn't that bad to me. Just AP's a bit under mixed in spots. If he's having a tough time with it, the sound guy might've been trying to bury that a bit. One more thing, these clips are in standard tuning, making it even harder for AP. He still does a good job.

Band apparently did a private gig in North Dakota tonight. Poor Arnel. Singing this catalog three nights in a row. Ouch.

The band allegedly has a double album ready to drop and ONE new song in the set?

FamilyMan wrote:The band allegedly has a double album ready to drop and ONE new song in the set?

That’s a good point. They were playing 4-5 new tracks a night from Eclipse over a month before it was released.

Archetype wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:The band allegedly has a double album ready to drop and ONE new song in the set?

That’s a good point. They were playing 4-5 new tracks a night from Eclipse over a month before it was released.

I don’t remember that happening. What tour would that have been? Because I thought they were off the road until they came out in support of Eclipse?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Archetype wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:The band allegedly has a double album ready to drop and ONE new song in the set?

That’s a good point. They were playing 4-5 new tracks a night from Eclipse over a month before it was released.

I don’t remember that happening. What tour would that have been? Because I thought they were off the road until they came out in support of Eclipse?

They were on the road well before Eclipse dropped. I remember we all first heard the new material from videos fans took at concerts long before the album hit shelves.

EDIT: did some searching, and yes I’m correct and you’re misremembering. They were doing shows as early as February with Edge Of The Moment, City of Hope, Resonate, Human Feel and Chain of Love in the set. Eclipse didn’t drop til May24th.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/journey/ ... 2183d.html

viewforum.php?f=69&start=3150

Archetype wrote:They were on the road well before Eclipse dropped. I remember we all first heard the new material from videos fans took at concerts long before the album hit shelves.

EDIT: did some searching, and yes I’m correct and you’re misremembering. They were doing shows as early as February with Edge Of The Moment, City of Hope, Resonate, Human Feel and Chain of Love in the set. Eclipse didn’t drop til May24th.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/journey/ ... 2183d.html

viewforum.php?f=69&start=3150

Not only that, but Amazon had samples of the entire album in March.

Going back and looking at those old threads, there were so many more people who gave a shit back then. No where near the three or four people on here who do now.

Jensen is WAY too loud on vocals.

Arnel is pulling up short on the big notes.

And could they be further away from each other?

Neal looks the part as always...loving it and sounding great.

Monker wrote:Going back and looking at those old threads, there were so many more people who gave a shit back then. No where near the three or four people on here who do now.

Message boards, in general, have lost ground to FB, Instagram, etc.

Real fans will be here during feast and famine.

Andrew wrote:And could they be further away from each other?

I assume social distancing due to covid.

Monker wrote:

Archetype wrote:They were on the road well before Eclipse dropped. I remember we all first heard the new material from videos fans took at concerts long before the album hit shelves.

EDIT: did some searching, and yes I’m correct and you’re misremembering. They were doing shows as early as February with Edge Of The Moment, City of Hope, Resonate, Human Feel and Chain of Love in the set. Eclipse didn’t drop til May24th.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/journey/ ... 2183d.html

viewforum.php?f=69&start=3150

Not only that, but Amazon had samples of the entire album in March.

Going back and looking at those old threads, there were so many more people who gave a shit back then. No where near the three or four people on here who do now.

It was a different era for sure. There was a lot of energy and excitement. I had a long phone conversation with Rip Rokken back then. I wonder what he’s up to.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I don’t remember that happening. What tour would that have been? Because I thought they were off the road until they came out in support of Eclipse?

Archetype wrote:They were on the road well before Eclipse dropped. I remember we all first heard the new material from videos fans took at concerts long before the album hit shelves.

EDIT: did some searching, and yes I’m correct and you’re misremembering. They were doing shows as early as February with Edge Of The Moment, City of Hope, Resonate, Human Feel and Chain of Love in the set. Eclipse didn’t drop til May24th.

https://www.setlist.fm/setlist/journey/ ... 2183d.html

viewforum.php?f=69&start=3150

Ok. But I asked what tour would that have been?

Looking at setlist.fm - there's really no dates from 08/2010 UNTIL this February 2011 one-off date you mentioned, where they first debuted the new Eclipse material. Like I said, they were off the road/weren't touring.

All dates AFTER this February 23rd one-off are then categorized (at least on setlist.fm) as being Eclipse tour dates.

In other words, aside from the one February show, Eclipse music started being played live in earnest during the Eclipse tour, which is to be expected.

Just like Red 13 was played during the UTR/Red 13 tour....Just like Generations was played during the Generations tour.
And more than likely, Freedom music will be played during the Freedom tour.