MR

What do you guys think?

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/journ ... than-ever/

Many people online are ripping apart what Deen said, with the most common comment being that he's confused the roles of FOH engineers & monitor mix engineers.

Has anyone here seen them recently? Did he really sound better? - Could they be using backing tracks now, and this is Deen's way to try and explain the improved vocals?

Here's a high quality video of a recent show. - Doesn't sound lipped to me, just like a lot of (and possibly more than at the start of the tour) autotune: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_Yfq-4HerI

He sounds much better in that clip than he did the last couple times I saw them, I’m not a music expert by any means I’m not sure how a sound man can single handedly fix a singer’s long-standing vocal issues on stage like a magician. This catalog shreds singers and Arnel has been doing this for 14 years now so there is no way he can sound like he did in 2008 without auto tune or something, it wouldn’t be the first time this band has faced that accusation. (Tapegate anyone?)

I was at Honda Center and it was amazing . It’s as good as Deen said it was. I was expecting it to be bad but it was great. Arnel killed it ! Lukather’s solos I could hear perfect , but I could not hear Neal well on his . The mix was otherwise good for Journey . One other complaint - there’s TWO keyboard players up there , where the heck was the organ during Lights, especially when it comes in on “ So you think , your lonely”? Nothing !

Gotta say, it has been obvious even in pictures that the band is enjoying themselves. And it definitely comes from Arnel. The show in the link above looked and sounded really good. True there could be autotune but Arnel is singing better, not lipping. I think clips from some shows would go a long way to combat negative comments about Arnel.

Saw them in St Louis and he sounded much better than the videos I had seen of the tour. The mix had it's issues at times during the night, but also wasn't as bad as I was expecting. To be honest, Lukather struggled more than Arnel with his songs, and most relied on Joe and background singers to carry him, which was fine.

JohnH wrote:I was at Honda Center and it was amazing . It’s as good as Deen said it was. I was expecting it to be bad but it was great. Arnel killed it ! Lukather’s solos I could hear perfect , but I could not hear Neal well on his . The mix was otherwise good for Journey . One other complaint - there’s TWO keyboard players up there , where the heck was the organ during Lights, especially when it comes in on “ So you think , your lonely”? Nothing !

In all fairness, not the Journey fan I once was, so, I was there mainly to see TOTO.

I noticed this same thing at Staples Center. I had heard so much about Arnel again being off that I prepared for the worse. Arnel was ON, nearly perfect, however, I wonder, was it too perfect? I mean, so many years and tours of literally sounding like hell through the first half of the show and all of a sudden perfect...hmmmmmmmmm.

Neal's guitars were low in the mix throughout the show (my opinion) until switching to the EVH Wolfgang for his solo and Wheel. The sound of that guitar is insane and certainly stood out far more than his Fender's.

I ABSOLUTELY believe it has helped him. I've been watching this tour and his voice stuff very carefully. No sooner did they change their sound guy then APs voice skyrocketed. Night and day. Without a soundguy who will work with the singers to get what they need, they're f*cked. Arnel's absolutely kicking ass right now. Way more consistent and much stronger. With very few exceptions (it's live, folks) his voice has been completely on pitch and he's hitting notes live that're higher than the originals (as adlibs). There might be a bit of rasp there at times, but there are no cracks and nothing weak sounding- he's singing the most difficult catalog in the biz and he sounds great. The whole band can tell the difference. Watch them. They're having a blast. I even saw Cain smile once . The songs are also back in the original keys now. Ap is obviously happier, too. It comes across in his performances and it's given him a kick in the confidence. Whatever they did, they shoulda done it a long time ago.

To those saying "too perfect"- yer wrong. Watch the Sacremento show. Near the start of the show, APs mic goes out, completely. His voice isn't still going, etc. On another how, he did hit a flat note at the end of Escape. Like I said- it's live- one note out of thousands a night ain't gonna make me ask for a refund. The guy has found his groove. At his age to have found that place again in his voice is super exciting to watch and hear.

The FOH/IEM argument is valid, but who knows what their dynamic was with FOH and IEMs? If stuff is so loud on stage, you cannot get your IEMS loud enough to get over it. Maybe it had to do with stage volume as well. Deen also could've explained things incorrectly too, or maybe the IEM was working with the FOH guy and they both got replaced...? I don't know what changed, but it's not AT or tracks. It's live. Whatever they did is working for AP.

They were down tuning by 2009. It took them 13 years to figure out that Arnel’s in-ear mix was bad and now they can play in standard tuning again?

brywool wrote:To those saying "too perfect"- yer wrong. Watch the Sacremento show. Near the start of the show, APs mic goes out, completely. His voice isn't still going, etc. On another how, he did hit a flat note at the end of Escape. Like I said- it's live- one note out of thousands a night ain't gonna make me ask for a refund. The guy has found his groove. At his age to have found that place again in his voice is super exciting to watch and hear.

I saw the youtube vid of this show last week and was thinking of this reading through the other posts in this tread. I believe Arnel hit his mic while "clapping" his hands just before the mic went out. Obviously we'd have kept hearing the vocal if it had been piped in. He also stops singing to turn the mic to the audience at times that are spontaneous couldn't possibly be rehearsed and coordinated.

Glad to see someone point this out and its always great to hear your insight on vocals and issues singers deal with.

At and age two decades older than Perry was when he began to decline and after being in this band almost as many years as Perry and Augeri combined, folks should expect Arnel to be declining at this point and cut him some slack. He's given his all and would deserve that consideration. However, he is still absolutely killing it!

Archetype wrote:They were down tuning by 2009. It took them 13 years to figure out that Arnel’s in-ear mix was bad and now they can play in standard tuning again?

I love this band, but they are not what we'd call quick leaners. They're slow to adopt or react to fucking anything and it's infuriating.

For example...

Def Leppard and Journey have comparable popularity but Leppard's social media game absolutely annihilates Journey's.

Journey has 1.5m YT subscribers and their newest single + video, the Way We Used to Be, has been out for 9 months. It has 651K views.

Def Leppard has only 900K subscribers and their newest single + video, Kick, has been out for 2 weeks. It has 730K views.

Leppard does cool interview shit, contests, snippets, announcements, etc. on their social media all the time whereas all Journey does is have Neal personally retweeting his wife's instagram like a fucking loser.

2021 was a great year for Journey's publicity and profile. I'm excited for the new music and I'mma see them in Charlotte. AP continues to please. He's 55 years old singing a catalog that the man himself, SP, stopped singing at age 38.

But goddamn this band needs an adult in the room to get them firing on all cylinders.

Given that they had Augeri singing to tapes before he was thrown out of the band, this all sounds a little fishy to me. Going from struggling bad to sounding like he did in 2008, over night... Hmm.

danielb wrote:Given that they had Augeri singing to tapes before he was thrown out of the band, this all sounds a little fishy to me. Going from struggling bad to sounding like he did in 2008, over night... Hmm.

He doesn't sound like 2008, Deen's exaggerating. AP's lost some range, has more rasp, etc. There's no undoing the sands of time.

But I 100% believe that a more competent sound engineer could help AP make different decisions live.

SA's tapes were obvious in hindsight. He was practically kissing/deepthroating the mic. AP isn't.

Moreover, SA is a native English speaker, making it easier for him to imitate the tapes. AP couldn't pull that off.

Gideon wrote:

Archetype wrote:They were down tuning by 2009. It took them 13 years to figure out that Arnel’s in-ear mix was bad and now they can play in standard tuning again?

I love this band, but they are not what we'd call quick leaners. They're slow to adopt or react to fucking anything and it's infuriating.

For example...

Def Leppard and Journey have comparable popularity but Leppard's social media game absolutely annihilates Journey's.

Journey has 1.5m YT subscribers and their newest single + video, the Way We Used to Be, has been out for 9 months. It has 651K views.

Def Leppard has only 900K subscribers and their newest single + video, Kick, has been out for 2 weeks. It has 730K views.

Leppard does cool interview shit, contests, snippets, announcements, etc. on their social media all the time whereas all Journey does is have Neal personally retweeting his wife's instagram like a fucking loser.

2021 was a great year for Journey's publicity and profile. I'm excited for the new music and I'mma see them in Charlotte. AP continues to please. He's 55 years old singing a catalog that the man himself, SP, stopped singing at age 38.

But goddamn this band needs an adult in the room to get them firing on all cylinders.

I'm like a broken record on here whenever I post, but that comparison REALLY makes me wish the QPrime management deal didn't get thrown to the wayside. So much potential in what they would have done to put Journey back in the limelight using modern approaches like you mentioned Def Leppard doing. Its really unfortunate.

FYIW, I did a short interview with the band backstage at Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. When the band came offstage, they were really unhappy with the mix and said then - Arnel was struggling to hear himself. And if you remember, he didn't sound great that night. So this has indeed been going on for a while.

FamilyMan wrote:FYIW, I did a short interview with the band backstage at Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. When the band came offstage, they were really unhappy with the mix and said then - Arnel was struggling to hear himself. And if you remember, he didn't sound great that night. So this has indeed been going on for a while.

As I said before, it is the BAND'S fault for not taking a few seconds to check the sound level of the instruments and vocals before the show starts, and adjusting where necessary. Blaming one person or "sound guy" is wrong...it may be partially their fault for having it off in the beginning, but it is the BAND'S fault for not verifying it. IMO, this is just looking for a scapegoat to take the heat off of Armel. HE IS THE ONE who is not verifying the vocal level is OK BEFORE the concert starts...literally seconds to do.

I'd say there are bits and pieces in this thread from everyone that have something to do with this situation.

I don't see any evidence that he's being asked to lip sync. There are a few high notes that look like they may be piping in a "reinforcement" note - but that's just standard practice anymore - so IF that's the case, it's no "tape gate."

IEMs are a blessing and a curse - and it's quite possible he's gotten the curse end of the deal. If your in-ear mix is bad, you're going to blow your voice out. Period. Much quicker that traditional monitors, because at least with those, you can physically back away from them. Not a lot you can do with the in-ears if your stage mixer isn't paying attention.

The last bit I'll say on this that I didn't see anyone else broach - there are multiple things that can be done medically. Prednisone is commonly prescribed to greatly lower vocal cord inflammation. And so it is indeed quite possible to go from being blown out to suddenly able to sing again. It's a bandage - so who knows how long it will work.

To the video - they absolutely sound 100% better than the start of the tour. They've needed someone new on FOH for some time. So it's good for the band if they've resolved this. However, there is still some balancing to be done amongst the instrumentation - but the biggest stand out is that you can actually hear the articulation in Arnel's voice. Something I don't think I've ever heard - live or on youtube.

Just my two-cents. They are definitely moving in the right direction. How much longer Arnel's cords will hold up is anyone's guess.

Monker wrote:

FamilyMan wrote:FYIW, I did a short interview with the band backstage at Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. When the band came offstage, they were really unhappy with the mix and said then - Arnel was struggling to hear himself. And if you remember, he didn't sound great that night. So this has indeed been going on for a while.

As I said before, it is the BAND'S fault for not taking a few seconds to check the sound level of the instruments and vocals before the show starts, and adjusting where necessary. Blaming one person or "sound guy" is wrong...it may be partially their fault for having it off in the beginning, but it is the BAND'S fault for not verifying it. IMO, this is just looking for a scapegoat to take the heat off of Armel. HE IS THE ONE who is not verifying the vocal level is OK BEFORE the concert starts...literally seconds to do.

Steve never allowed anyone else to do sound check. He check the levels himself. He went to different parts of the arena to make sure.

tedpruitt wrote:I'd say there are bits and pieces in this thread from everyone that have something to do with this situation.

I don't see any evidence that he's being asked to lip sync. There are a few high notes that look like they may be piping in a "reinforcement" note - but that's just standard practice anymore - so IF that's the case, it's no "tape gate."

IEMs are a blessing and a curse - and it's quite possible he's gotten the curse end of the deal. If your in-ear mix is bad, you're going to blow your voice out. Period. Much quicker that traditional monitors, because at least with those, you can physically back away from them. Not a lot you can do with the in-ears if your stage mixer isn't paying attention.

The last bit I'll say on this that I didn't see anyone else broach - there are multiple things that can be done medically. Prednisone is commonly prescribed to greatly lower vocal cord inflammation. And so it is indeed quite possible to go from being blown out to suddenly able to sing again. It's a bandage - so who knows how long it will work.

To the video - they absolutely sound 100% better than the start of the tour. They've needed someone new on FOH for some time. So it's good for the band if they've resolved this. However, there is still some balancing to be done amongst the instrumentation - but the biggest stand out is that you can actually hear the articulation in Arnel's voice. Something I don't think I've ever heard - live or on youtube.

Just my two-cents. They are definitely moving in the right direction. How much longer Arnel's cords will hold up is anyone's guess.

You could be right (about the medical bandage). Not a knock if it's true. Smart actually, in the immediate. Find out that a person's range is actually somewhat predetermined by the thickness/thinness and spacing of vocal cord flaps.
https://singdaptive.com/articles/5-esse ... cal-range/

It's completely feasible. If you can't hear yourself, it's a massive problem.