MR

So much for Neal’s claim that he and Steve were talking again. This three ring circus keeps getting more and more ridiculous.

Just more childish nonsense. No, I"m not saying a lawsuit is childish. Just that they seem incapable of communicating properly with each other and getting on the same page. Back to lawyers we go.

Ridiculous.

Neal’s been talking a lot about how bad the band has been screwed out of money through their career. He specifically mentioned all the Journey retail merchandise they weren’t seeing a dime from. He said he finally got that all ironed out and I thought maybe that was part of what got he and Perry talking again. It would make sense if Neal had discovered something that was essentially stealing money from Perry and the band. Evidently that is NOT the case.

jrnyman28 wrote:Neal’s been talking a lot about how bad the band has been screwed out of money through their career. He specifically mentioned all the Journey retail merchandise they weren’t seeing a dime from. He said he finally got that all ironed out and I thought maybe that was part of what got he and Perry talking again. It would make sense if Neal had discovered something that was essentially stealing money from Perry and the band. Evidently that is NOT the case.

What Neal was talking about is the fact that when trademarks were filed they never filed for merchandise. That is true. When I looked into Nightmare's lawsuit against JTT, I could see there was no mention of merchandise when they filed for the trademark...it only covered media, CD, DVD, vhs, etc. When I looked at Styx, they covered everything including a huge list of merchandise. So, Journey was never protected from some third party creating shirts and selling them. How often did that happen? I don't know but I doubt they lost as much money as Neal implies. In fact, maybe Herbie felt the more the name was visible the better and did not care....besides Nightmare is a media company and not a merchandise company.

What Perry is saying is very simple, the wording in the Elmo Partners agreement means they should own the merchandise trademarks for all songs between Infinity and TBF. And, Jon and Neal have no way to claim it on their own. Not sure who is right, but I would not bet against Perry.

Oh, also I always thought what Neal and Steve were talking about was the Stranger Things/Separate Ways thing. Pretty shrewd of Perry to wait for that to run its course before bringing this lawsuit.

Monker wrote:What Perry is saying is very simple, the wording in the Elmo Partners agreement means they should own the merchandise trademarks for all songs between Infinity and TBF. And, Jon and Neal have no way to claim it on their own. Not sure who is right, but I would not bet against Perry.

Looks like it. And this came up as it looks like Freedom JN LLC (new Journey) instigated some new merch plans without cluing SP in.

It seems Ross Vallory, Steve Smith, Herbie Herbert and Steve Perry had a plan to oust Neal and Jon and take control of Journey trademark. Now, I understand why there was no mention of Herbie Herbert's passing during the concert tour this year. Neal and Jon are pissed at Herbie Herbert! Now, everything makes sense.

Monker wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:Neal’s been talking a lot about how bad the band has been screwed out of money through their career. He specifically mentioned all the Journey retail merchandise they weren’t seeing a dime from. He said he finally got that all ironed out and I thought maybe that was part of what got he and Perry talking again. It would make sense if Neal had discovered something that was essentially stealing money from Perry and the band. Evidently that is NOT the case.

What Neal was talking about is the fact that when trademarks were filed they never filed for merchandise. That is true. When I looked into Nightmare's lawsuit against JTT, I could see there was no mention of merchandise when they filed for the trademark...it only covered media, CD, DVD, vhs, etc. When I looked at Styx, they covered everything including a huge list of merchandise. So, Journey was never protected from some third party creating shirts and selling them. How often did that happen? I don't know but I doubt they lost as much money as Neal implies. In fact, maybe Herbie felt the more the name was visible the better and did not care....besides Nightmare is a media company and not a merchandise company.

Which is odd because when I looked at the 1985 license agreement it mentioned merchandise. Nothing was excluded. Herbie wouldn't leave money on the table and not get it. And he made sure the guys got the bag too.

JourneyHard wrote:It seems Ross Vallory, Steve Smith, Herbie Herbert and Steve Perry had a plan to oust Neal and Jon and take control of Journey trademark. Now, I understand why there was no mention of Herbie Herbert's passing during the concert tour this year. Neal and Jon are pissed at Herbie Herbert! Now, everything makes sense.

From my limited understanding when I read the minutes...that's NOT what they were trying to do at all. That was their allegations. The others only wanted Ross and Smith to be a part of the board.

Besides if Neal was pissed why did he give such a public statement of grief on Instagram? Where was Greg's mention? Ross' mention? Smith's? Steve's?

bellairepark73 wrote:

Monker wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:Neal’s been talking a lot about how bad the band has been screwed out of money through their career. He specifically mentioned all the Journey retail merchandise they weren’t seeing a dime from. He said he finally got that all ironed out and I thought maybe that was part of what got he and Perry talking again. It would make sense if Neal had discovered something that was essentially stealing money from Perry and the band. Evidently that is NOT the case.

What Neal was talking about is the fact that when trademarks were filed they never filed for merchandise. That is true. When I looked into Nightmare's lawsuit against JTT, I could see there was no mention of merchandise when they filed for the trademark...it only covered media, CD, DVD, vhs, etc. When I looked at Styx, they covered everything including a huge list of merchandise. So, Journey was never protected from some third party creating shirts and selling them. How often did that happen? I don't know but I doubt they lost as much money as Neal implies. In fact, maybe Herbie felt the more the name was visible the better and did not care....besides Nightmare is a media company and not a merchandise company.

Which is odd because when I looked at the 1985 license agreement it mentioned merchandise. Nothing was excluded. Herbie wouldn't leave money on the table and not get it. And he made sure the guys got the bag too.

Yes, it is, because the trademark that Nightmare filed did not mention merchandise at all. So, Nightmare did not have that piece of the trademark to license. They may have had "official Journey merchandise" to sell and split the profits on. But, neither Nightmare , nor Elmo Brothers, could stop me from making my own Journey shirts and selling them....because no trademark was filed to stop that. That is why I say Neal is exaggerating, or doesn't know what he is talking about, when he says Journey was losing all kinds of money on it. Were the vendors at concerts not selling official merchandise or something? As far as I can see, that is the only way they could lose money on it.

If somebody wanted to cut into Journey's profits on selling incense sticks, they could. Just think of all the money Journey could have lost if this oversight was well known. But, nobody can cut into Styx millions of dollars of profits of selling official Styx coffee.

Now Journey can sell official "Separate Ways" fill-in-the-blank divorce papers...created by Neal himself, and launch a new drone project called "Wheel In the Sky", they could go into frozen foods and launch their own brand of "Freedom fries". Lots of things they could do in states like Colorado with "Stone In Love". They could launch an official Journey porn site called "Any Way You Want it". The possibilities are endless. Just imagine where Neal can take this...I bet Neal has!

bellairepark73 wrote:

JourneyHard wrote:It seems Ross Vallory, Steve Smith, Herbie Herbert and Steve Perry had a plan to oust Neal and Jon and take control of Journey trademark. Now, I understand why there was no mention of Herbie Herbert's passing during the concert tour this year. Neal and Jon are pissed at Herbie Herbert! Now, everything makes sense.

From my limited understanding when I read the minutes...that's NOT what they were trying to do at all. That was their allegations. The others only wanted Ross and Smith to be a part of the board.

Besides if Neal was pissed why did he give such a public statement of grief on Instagram? Where was Greg's mention? Ross' mention? Smith's? Steve's?

I did not know the minutes were available to read. However, when I looked at the court schedule, it seemed Herbie was pretty involved towards the end. I always thought he may have helped with the settlement. Maybe he went to Neal and told him Ross and Steve would drop their countersuit and will agree to license the Name to you, if you drop your lawsuit and not fight them keeping their positions on the board. And, if you don't agree to this settlement - which is fair to everybody, then we will file for summary judgement to end this one way or the other. And, if you lose, we will license Journey to a new group that will not consist of any current members...something like: Kevin Chalfant, Gregg Rolie, Steve Smith, Ross Valory, and Josh Ramos. And, you will never be a member of the band again.

But, that's just wishful thinking

Monker wrote:Now Journey can sell official "Separate Ways" fill-in-the-blank divorce papers...created by Neal himself, and launch a new drone project called "Wheel In the Sky", they could go into frozen foods and launch their own brand of "Freedom fries". Lots of things they could do in states like Colorado with "Stone In Love". They could launch an official Journey porn site called "Any Way You Want it". The possibilities are endless. Just imagine where Neal can take this...I bet Neal has!

Schon did originally call Stone In Love "Stoned In Love."

Monker wrote:Now Journey can sell official "Separate Ways" fill-in-the-blank divorce papers...created by Neal himself, and launch a new drone project called "Wheel In the Sky", they could go into frozen foods and launch their own brand of "Freedom fries". Lots of things they could do in states like Colorado with "Stone In Love". They could launch an official Journey porn site called "Any Way You Want it". The possibilities are endless. Just imagine where Neal can take this...I bet Neal has!

I wondering if Neal is taking tips from marketing tips from Gene Simmons? I don't blame him for wanting to cash in on the merchandising and protect the name but he runs the risk to diluting the Journey brand down to a cheesy punchline, if the recent lawsuits and needless drama haven't done that already.

After seeing Steve's merch in countless emails, I really hope he stays away from Journey's. That stuff seems so beneath him to me and I have thought so from day 1. Just tacky. If they're using Perry/Cain/Schon song titles on merch, Journey should give him a cut and move on. Anything he was not involved with should not be part of that.
Regarding the meeting notes, my recollection is that Herbie, Steve, Ross and Steve Smith tried to actually wrest control from Neal and Jon - which, at the time, seemed pretty smart because Neal and Jon were doing some super-eratic stuff, at least in the public eye. Settle and move on.

This is such a soap opera:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDzEpTg ... SROCK-NEWS

brywool wrote:After seeing Steve's merch in countless emails, I really hope he stays away from Journey's. That stuff seems so beneath him to me and I have thought so from day 1. Just tacky. If they're using Perry/Cain/Schon song titles on merch, Journey should give him a cut and move on. Anything he was not involved with should not be part of that.
Regarding the meeting notes, my recollection is that Herbie, Steve, Ross and Steve Smith tried to actually wrest control from Neal and Jon - which, at the time, seemed pretty smart because Neal and Jon were doing some super-eratic stuff, at least in the public eye. Settle and move on.

It’s greedy on Steve’s part considering how much touring revenue money Neal and Jon have paid him over the last 20+ years while he sat on his ass at home.

This needs to be a prime time soap opera! Nobody can write anything better than this. Steve Perry tried to take control over Journey with the help from Valory and Smith, two guys he, Perry, kicked out of the band back in the 1980's. And Herbie Herbert was there helping Perry after Perry had fired Herbie, too! This is the craziest thing ever.

Let's be glad the hostile takeover didn't work. With Neal out of the band and Perry in total control, we would not have gotten Freedom. Instead, the new Journey album would have 15 ballads. It would be awful. Freedom has the perfect balance of ballads and rockers. That said, I still think Neal's wife must be behind this. She is trying to get all the money possible. Neal had 20 years to look into this crap, and didn't do anything. Then he married his wife and suddenly they have lawyers filing lawsuits and so on and so forth. I wonder if this story ends with Neal's wife having control of everything and all the current and former band members getting nothing.

ebake02 wrote:

brywool wrote:After seeing Steve's merch in countless emails, I really hope he stays away from Journey's. That stuff seems so beneath him to me and I have thought so from day 1. Just tacky. If they're using Perry/Cain/Schon song titles on merch, Journey should give him a cut and move on. Anything he was not involved with should not be part of that.
Regarding the meeting notes, my recollection is that Herbie, Steve, Ross and Steve Smith tried to actually wrest control from Neal and Jon - which, at the time, seemed pretty smart because Neal and Jon were doing some super-eratic stuff, at least in the public eye. Settle and move on.

It’s greedy on Steve’s part considering how much touring revenue money Neal and Jon have paid him over the last 20+ years while he sat on his ass at home.

This is exaggerated. If you read the agreements, this lasted for three albums and three tours...each one Perry received less. So, Perry stopped receiving money for touring and album sales back during the Augeri years....after the Generations album/tour Perry stopped receiving money. So, for the entirety of Arnel's run, Perry has only received normal Journey royalties.

brywool wrote:After seeing Steve's merch in countless emails, I really hope he stays away from Journey's. That stuff seems so beneath him to me and I have thought so from day 1. Just tacky. If they're using Perry/Cain/Schon song titles on merch, Journey should give him a cut and move on. Anything he was not involved with should not be part of that.
Regarding the meeting notes, my recollection is that Herbie, Steve, Ross and Steve Smith tried to actually wrest control from Neal and Jon - which, at the time, seemed pretty smart because Neal and Jon were doing some super-eratic stuff, at least in the public eye. Settle and move on.

Don't know what Perry offers but can it be any worse than incense, wine, Christmas ornaments, etc? It's just all crap.

All that needs to be done is to register the trademark using Elmo Brother's LLC, instead of their new one. IMO, it is Neal that is acting greedy. The new Freedom JN LLC should only be used for newer albums and songs, IMO.

The entire "coup" thing is simply Nightmare wanting to remove Neal and Jon from any control over that business. Neal makes shit up and exaggerates everything. He has proven himself a complete idiot in the business side of things. This latest lawsuit from Perry and Neal's response is just more evidence of that.

JourneyHard wrote:Steve Perry tried to take control over Journey with the help from Valory and Smith

This is just not what happened.

two guys he, Perry, kicked out of the band back in the 1980's. And Herbie Herbert was there helping Perry after Perry had fired Herbie, too! This is the craziest thing ever.

All involved are stock holders in Nightmare, inc. The entire conflict revolved around who Nightmare wanted to be on the board at that company and have leadership positions. Nightmare wanted Neal and Jon OFF the board...not because they wanted control of "Journey" but because Neal is an idiot when it comes to business and was acting crazy with wanting JTT to "be" Journey, or at least an alternate version of Journey. That conflicts with Nightmare's business interests in the band. It had nothing to do with taking control of the band away from Neal...the simple fact is that Neal did not have as much control as he thought he did, and that pisses him off. It pissed him off when Nightmare sued JTT for trademark violations. It pissed him off when Nightmare voted him and Jon off the board. It pissed him off when Smith and Valory took their place. So, he was very pissed off and sued Nightmare and fires Smith and Valory and made up stories of a coup to take over the band. Now it pisses him off that he does not have control over the entire Journey catalog because of past dealings with Perry. Too bad...it's the law. Go sit and talk to Paul McCartney and trade stories.

Let's be glad the hostile takeover didn't work.

It didn't? Prove it.

Last I looked, Smith and Valory still had leadership position on Nightmare's board and Nightmare still had control of the Trademark (for media). So, what about this "takeover" did not work?

With Neal out of the band and Perry in total control, we would not have gotten Freedom.

What are you talking about? Perry would never have had total control over the band...I doubt he wants it or even thinks about it. Nightmare could have licensed the trademark to a different version of the band that did not include Neal and Jonathan...but that was never a stated goal.

That said, I still think Neal's wife must be behind this.

Neal said in one of his tweets that he looked into the trademark stuff with his wife. So, yeah, she is involved somehow.

Neal had 20 years to look into this crap, and didn't do anything. Then he married his wife and suddenly they have lawyers filing lawsuits and so on and so forth. I wonder if this story ends with Neal's wife having control of everything and all the current and former band members getting nothing.

Does it really matter? All involved are in their 70's....Journey is in its final years regardless of any lawsuit.

Interesting post:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 4233174771

Eric wrote:Interesting post:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 4233174771

Makes sense since Neal is trying very hard to get a tour with Santana (with Gregg) for the 50th Anniversary.

Monker wrote:
This is exaggerated. If you read the agreements, this lasted for three albums and three tours...each one Perry received less. So, Perry stopped receiving money for touring and album sales back during the Augeri years....after the Generations album/tour Perry stopped receiving money. So, for the entirety of Arnel's run, Perry has only received normal Journey royalties.

My understanding is that it reduced with each album or tour until it reached, like, 12% in perpetuity.

jrnyman28 wrote:

Monker wrote:
This is exaggerated. If you read the agreements, this lasted for three albums and three tours...each one Perry received less. So, Perry stopped receiving money for touring and album sales back during the Augeri years....after the Generations album/tour Perry stopped receiving money. So, for the entirety of Arnel's run, Perry has only received normal Journey royalties.

My understanding is that it reduced with each album or tour until it reached, like, 12% in perpetuity.

That’s how I understood too, I can’t picture Perry letting Neal and Jon play the dirty dozen on tour every year without getting a cut of the revenue considering he co-wrote a large portion of the set list.

Here's a list of the songs.
https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?qt= ... =&cop=&cn=

indigo wrote:Here's a list of the songs.
https://ttabvue.uspto.gov/ttabvue/v?qt= ... =&cop=&cn=

This is the funniest thing ever. Why are they fighting over these songs? Good Morning Girl? Trial By Fire? Raised on Radio? These songs they don't play on the radio ever! I thought they would be fighting over the songs they play on the radio every day. And why only these songs? Perry should get a third of all songs from the time he was in the band. Why can't they make it easy and do that?

I don't know if Steve Perry was trying to take over Journey, but I don't want him in control of Journey because he would want to do mostly ballads. However, Perry should be fighting for control over trademark and revenue from Journey songs from the time he was in the band. Neal's wife is sneaky and I don't trust her. She has Neal wrapped around her finger. Neal is a great guitarist, but he isn't good at business. His wife will rob him blind and take all the money from Journey. Neal should NOT be the manager of Journey. I am guessing any time he hires anybody as manager, that person butts heads with his wife and then Neal has to fire the poor guy. So, yes. Steve Perry should sue Neal for the rights to the Journey songs. I would much rather see Perry have his fair share than all the revenues go to Neal's wife. She is sneaky. She is probably setting things up so the money goes to her ex-boyfriend so Neal can't touch it.

Neal applied for trademark of all song and album titles for use in merchandising. Perry is suing because as per a previous agreement he needed to be included and approval needed to be from all 3 partners. No one received permission from Perry.