More Drama- JTT

[Onestepper]

Gregg Rolie is charging fellow Journey co-founder Neal Schon with issuing material from an offshoot band without permission.

Journey Through Time was released in May by Frontiers Records in both audio and DVD formats and included a benefit concert from Feb. 9, 2018, at the Independent in San Francisco that raised funds for victims of California wildfires.

The show found Schon and Rolie performing a set focused mainly on the band's earliest work with a lineup that also included current Journey drummer Deen Castronovo, former touring Journey bassist Marco Mendoza and keyboardist John Varn. Rolie now said he signed off on a separate physical release.


These explosive charges were leveled in an official letter involving another matter from attorney Gary Stiffelman of GSS Law in Tarzana, California. Rolie is also asking France's Guitare en Scene festival to issue refunds after a Journey Through Time concert scheduled for tonight was abruptly canceled.

Rolie became alarmed when the festival's initial advertising made it seem as if Journey would perform, rather than the offshoot band. The concert was properly listed on the group's website and Bandsintown, but Guitare en Scene's promotional material had "Journey" in a much larger font than "Through Time."

"Mr. Rolie is quite concerned over the deceptive marketing, misuse and intentional misappropriation of his name and likeness, and misleading announcement and ticketing that purported to promote an exclusive 'Journey' appearance after 15 years of absence from the European market under the name 'Journey Through Time,'" Stiffelman wrote this week in a letter to the organizers of Guitare en Scene.

"On or before June 12, 2023," Stiffelman added, "Mr. Rolie and his team had made it abundantly clear to Mr. Schon, Mrs. Schon and all involved in the process that he would not participate in an event due to a number of concerns including the risk of deceiving fans, not fairly paying other working musicians and an improperly released album sharing the same title Journey Through Time."

Rolie is worried that the original Journey Through Time benefit concert's nonprofit intent has been forgotten. Stiffelman also said Schon was reportedly paid "at least $100,000" for the canceled appearance in France, while fans were stiffed. They are considering a "selection of local counsel in France" if refunds aren't offered.

"Mr. Rolie remains concerned that Mr. Schon is furthering the promotion of a live album and DVD Neal Schon released via Frontier[s] records without obtaining appropriate licenses or permissions of the performing artists and songwriters/music publishing owners," Stiffelman wrote, "and without remuneration to the artists, or the intended beneficiary, a California wildfire victims relief fund, of the recorded 2018 event."

Read More: Gregg Rolie Says 'Journey Through Time' Was 'Improperly Released' | https://ultimateclassicrock.com/gregg-r ... m=referral

[The_Noble_Cause]

Thanks for sharing. Yeah, at this point it's pretty obvious who the problem is. Good for Gregg for speaking up

[youkeepmewaiting]

It Took Rollie a long time to agree to do something with Schon again (and I bet he’s tried a lot over the years), it didn’t take long for him to regret the decision

[Monker]

It Took Rollie a long time to agree to do something with Schon again (and I bet he’s tried a lot over the years), it didn’t take long for him to regret the decision

If you have ever been to a Gregg solo concert you would know that Gregg's number one concern and appreciation is the fans. I think that is what the above article expresses more than regretting JTT or being involved with Neal. IMO, Neal's number one concern is making money, and has been for a very long time. That is what is at issue. Neal trying to make money by misrepresenting things to fans...and Gregg doesn't like it, and I don't blame him. Doing the thing in France was walking on thin ice, Neal should have known the risk...and the ice broke.

It seems that the JTT video violated Gregg's synch rights...using his image on a video without his permission. If it is true that he signed off on a different release, it will be a pretty open and shut case.

Damn, Jonathan has really messed up Gregg's relationship with Neal. He is to blame for everything.

[jestor92]

I wonder if this has anything to do with the difficulty on getting the Journey Through Time audio release in stock on Amazon. I ordered it back on June 28 and it still hasn’t shipped.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I wonder if this has anything to do with the difficulty on getting the Journey Through Time audio release in stock on Amazon. I ordered it back on June 28 and it still hasn’t shipped.

Could be. Based on the article, JTT is basically an unauthorized bootleg. Gregg still owns the rights to his songs, and he didn't sign off on this release. When the Freedom deal was signed with Frontiers, it included Lollapalooza and JTT. I didn't really think Neal had unfettered rights to either.

[Monker]

I wonder if this has anything to do with the difficulty on getting the Journey Through Time audio release in stock on Amazon. I ordered it back on June 28 and it still hasn’t shipped.

Could be. Based on the article, JTT is basically an unauthorized bootleg. Gregg still owns the rights to his songs, and he didn't sign off on this release. When the Freedom deal was signed with Frontiers, it included Lollapalooza and JTT. I didn't really think Neal had unfettered rights to either.

There was an interview with Dennis DeYoung about releasing video and getting the rights and such to certain songs. Basically, because it is a video there is a thing called synch rights. So, whoever owns the publishing rights to the song has to give permission. It is not who wrote the song or copyrights, it is publishing rights. Who owns the publishing rights to the old pre-Perry songs? I have no idea. This does not apply to CD (audio) releases. This is why, for example, "Styx with the Contemporary Youth Orchestra" has a different song list on the DVD than it does the CD...Dennis DeYoung did not give permission for certain songs...or maybe Styx did not seek permission. Styx does not need permission to release DDY songs on audio.

Also, because Gregg appeared in the video, I believe he has certain rights to control how his image is used. So, JTT (Neal) has to get permission for that reason too.

Not sure how this would apply to Gregg performing and JTT releasing audio (CD) . If it were just JTT without Gregg, they absolutely would not need Gregg's permission. But, since he performed and was a member of the band, maybe that changes things. I would think maybe Gregg, or Nightmare, stopped the distribution of the entire project until the courts settle things.

[Eric]

Absolutely brutal.

I thought JTT was supposed to be way to play songs we don’t usually hear. But it’s just another money thing.

I loved the blu-ray too. Shame.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Absolutely brutal.

I thought JTT was supposed to be way to play songs we don’t usually hear. But it’s just another money thing.

I loved the blu-ray too. Shame.

Pretty sure I repeatedly said that JTT reflects a sad dark chapter in the band's history and it shouldn't be released. Now it just got even worse.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Article with quotes from Gregg. Sounds like they (The Schons and the promoters) knew Rolie wasn't participating - but they didn't care and used his name anyway. The blame can't all be laid at the feet of the promoters - these JTT tour dates were briefly listed on Journey's website as well. The Journey name and legacy is clearly being exploited for money. Maybe pretending that Randy Jackson would be on tour was intentional too?


https://www.thewrap.com/journey-gregg-r ... s-concert/

[ebake02]

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second.

1.) This release has been out for 2 months and it was first announced by Frontiers a couple months before that so if Gregg really had a problem with the packaging or the permissions then he should have said something 6 months ago and stopped the release entirely.
2.) The advertising for the show in France seems like the product of a shady promoter rather than an issue with Neal. I have on doubt that Neal took unfair advantage of it though.
3.) I find it hard to believe that a record label like Frontiers would put out a release without covering their ass first with the licensing and permissions.

I'm not condoning Neal and his wife's behavior, they're guilty as hell and a big part of the problem but we have to see both sides here.

[Loneman1]

Yay, more legal problems.

Extremely stupid of Neal to go ahead with not only releasing the concert on various media formats but trying to line up new tour dates without even checking with Gregg about any of it first. That is some unmistakably narcissistic thinking right there to assume that was all going to go off without a hitch just because Neal wants it to be so.....there's no reality where this stands up to legal action from Gregg since he was in on the ground floor with writing/publishing/performing(?) credits as well as being a founding member of both Journey and JTT.

I'm glad I managed to snag the CD/DVD and Blu-ray sets though since I love the hell out of this concert but I wish the release was more on the up and up since its been a long time coming. I guess it might get a bit tough to find, for a while at the very least, and that's a damn shame since its a great look at the early years. Hopefully Gregg and Neal can find a compromise for the release after this initial dust settles. I'm pretty sure the way this was handled has likely screwed up Neal and Gregg's working (and perhaps to a degree personal) relationship at least for the immediate future so JTT in its current form might be done.....and IMO no Gregg, no reason for JTT.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second.

1.) This release has been out for 2 months and it was first announced by Frontiers a couple months before that so if Gregg really had a problem with the packaging or the permissions then he should have said something 6 months ago and stopped the release entirely.

2.) The advertising for the show in France seems like the product of a shady promoter rather than an issue with Neal. I have on doubt that Neal took unfair advantage of it though.

3.) I find it hard to believe that a record label like Frontiers would put out a release without covering their ass first with the licensing and permissions.

I'm not condoning Neal and his wife's behavior, they're guilty as hell and a big part of the problem but we have to see both sides here.

1) Maybe Gregg tried to handle matters privately. It's worth noting that Gregg did not promote the JTT release the way some did.

2) Promoters couldn't upload dates to the Journey website even if they wanted to.

3) As for Frontiers doing their legal due diligence and not engaging in shady business practices...... quite a few artists would probably like to talk to you about that (including Toto who sued them).

[Hollywood]

It Took Rollie a long time to agree to do something with Schon again (and I bet he’s tried a lot over the years), it didn’t take long for him to regret the decision

look

Damn, Jonathan has really messed up Gregg's relationship with Neal. He is to blame for everything.

Please tell me you are joking. The common denominator in all of this is Neal. It seems the minute the touring stops the drama starts and it always revolves around Neal. Jonathan has nothing to do with this situation.

As far as getting permissions, maybe Schon and Frontiers changing the name to a Neal Schon record titled Journey Through Time thought they were in the clear.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Please tell me you are joking. The common denominator in all of this is Neal. It seems the minute the touring stops the drama starts and it always revolves around Neal. Jonathan has nothing to do with this situation.

You must be new here. Monker is definitely joking. Neal blames everything on Jonathan (or shadowy Azoff agents). Now that Gregg is calling out Neal, Monker is having a bit of fun.

[kmjrr]

This is all just so sad. At least Neal hasn't been posting swipes at Gregg, yet.

[Monker]

It Took Rollie a long time to agree to do something with Schon again (and I bet he’s tried a lot over the years), it didn’t take long for him to regret the decision

look

Damn, Jonathan has really messed up Gregg's relationship with Neal. He is to blame for everything.

Please tell me you are joking. The common denominator in all of this is Neal. It seems the minute the touring stops the drama starts and it always revolves around Neal. Jonathan has nothing to do with this situation.

Of course I am joking.

As far as getting permissions, maybe Schon and Frontiers changing the name to a Neal Schon record titled Journey Through Time thought they were in the clear.

That is irrelevant. To release a video, you need synch rights. To get synch rights, you need permission FROM WHOEVER OWNS THE PUBLISHING RIGHTS. This has NOTHING to do with the Nightmare complaint with JTT abusing the Journey trademark, which Nightmare owns. If YOU release a video of YOU performing some song that Gregg owns the publishing rights to, YOU need to get Gregg's permission to release the DVD.

HOWEVER, it would not surprise me if there is some way Nightmare can complain too. Gregg mentioned that "Journey" was in a larger font. Stephen Housden, who owns the Little River Band trademark, sued the founding members of the Little River Band for having "Little River Band" in too large of a font in their release of the "Full Circle" DVD/CD...and he won.

[Monker]

I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second.

1.) This release has been out for 2 months and it was first announced by Frontiers a couple months before that so if Gregg really had a problem with the packaging or the permissions then he should have said something 6 months ago and stopped the release entirely.

If you read the interview that TNC posted, you will see Gregg said he was handling the situation PRIVATELY. So, I think it is pretty obvious that Gregg's complaints are not new...they were just not public.

It seems to me that Gregg had a completely different view of JTT. For him, it was about the fans and the concert was for the charity. If Neal agreed to donate all the profits of the sale of the DVD and CD to charity, I bet Gregg would be all for it. I don't think he looked at JTT as some alternate version of Journey or a nationwide thing...and definitely not an international thing. He did it for the fans and charity.

2.) The advertising for the show in France seems like the product of a shady promoter rather than an issue with Neal. I have on doubt that Neal took unfair advantage of it though.

As TNC said, it was also announced on Journey's website. I think Neal knew very well what was going on.

3.) I find it hard to believe that a record label like Frontiers would put out a release without covering their ass first with the licensing and permissions.

It would not surprise me at all if Frontiers told Neal that they would release it, but he was responsible for getting the synch rights for the video. IMO, this is something management should take care of...and Neal seems to think he is a manager. I doubt Azoff, or any competent manager, would allow this to be released without securing the rights.

[danielb]

IMO, Neal's number one concern is making money, and has been for a very long time. That is what is at issue.

If Neal's main concern was making money, he would have gone out as Journey, where the big money is. JTT is a club/theater act. I think it's more down to Neal being a workaholic, looking for different avenues of expression to keep him busy while Cain recuperates in between tours. If Cain wasn't part of the equation, I get the impression Neal would have been out on the road all the time.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If Neal's main concern was making money, he would have gone out as Journey, where the big money is.

That's legally impossible.

[JourneyHard]

Why is Gregg objecting to the release? If Gregg is concerned out the original reason for the benefit concert being forgotten, all Neal needs to do is raise the price from $14.99 to $24.99 and donate $10 to the Wild Fire Charity. Problem solved.

[danielb]

That's legally impossible.

Yes. And since Cain doesn't exactly seem to be hot for the road, enter JTT.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Yes. And since Cain doesn't exactly seem to be hot for the road, enter JTT.

You're sort of contradicting yourself. Does NS need the name Journey to make money or not?

[Art Vandelay]

Gregg's tweet from over this past weekend:
"Without fans the whole place is empty. Music fans have always had my back and you better be damn sure I've got theirs."

Much respect to Gregg, as always.

[danielb]

No contradiction. Journey in arenas makes more money than JTT in clubs/theaters. NS going out as JTT is likely not a money motivated move, but rather a way to stay active since Cain wants more down time than Neal (and Neal needs Cain to tour as Journey).

[Journey/Survivor]

No contradiction. Journey in arenas makes more money than JTT in clubs/theaters. NS going out as JTT is likely not a money motivated move, but rather a way to stay active since Cain wants more down time than Neal (and Neal needs Cain to tour as Journey).

I do agree with what Gregg Rolie is saying and doing!

But I agree with danielb in this case. I don't see this as some big money motivated move by Schon. He's not going to make any tremendous amount of money from a JTT tour.

[Monker]

No contradiction. Journey in arenas makes more money than JTT in clubs/theaters. NS going out as JTT is likely not a money motivated move, but rather a way to stay active since Cain wants more down time than Neal (and Neal needs Cain to tour as Journey).

I do agree with what Gregg Rolie is saying and doing!

But I agree with danielb in this case. I don't see this as some big money motivated move by Schon. He's not going to make any tremendous amount of money from a JTT tour.

A "big" move, maybe not. But, it is a contradiction. If all Neal wants is to remain active and "do something" between Journey tours, he could tour as "Neal Schon". He could probably find someone else to partner with to do a project with. He could also do it in the US and not travel to Europe, unless he agreed not to. How much did the festival pay for "JOURNEY Through Time"? It's pretty obvious to me that they had to make it worth a trip for him to agree to do it.

My point is, Neal is NOT doing "JOURNEY Through Time" for the fans, or for the music, or for a charity. He's doing it for selfish reasons and because someone is willing to pay him for it. Gregg's reasons seemed to be the exact opposite.

Also, you are back to blaming Jonathan. Why would he NOT want time off after touring for about a year straight? It's getting a bit silly. These are NEAL's decisions. They have nothing to do with Jonathan. He's just a scapegoat for Neal's dysfunctional behavior.

[Monker]

Gregg's tweet from over this past weekend:
"Without fans the whole place is empty. Music fans have always had my back and you better be damn sure I've got theirs."

Much respect to Gregg, as always.

Exactly. Gregg gets it.

[Memorex]

No contradiction. Journey in arenas makes more money than JTT in clubs/theaters. NS going out as JTT is likely not a money motivated move, but rather a way to stay active since Cain wants more down time than Neal (and Neal needs Cain to tour as Journey).

Probably more right than wrong, but I sure would like to have that $100k advance.

[ebake02]

No contradiction. Journey in arenas makes more money than JTT in clubs/theaters. NS going out as JTT is likely not a money motivated move, but rather a way to stay active since Cain wants more down time than Neal (and Neal needs Cain to tour as Journey).

There is no way hell that JTT would ever be a profitable venture playing clubs and theaters, especially when you add in Neal and Michaele's outrageous spending habits.