MR

Journey has announced they are playing half-time at the NFL's NFC Championship Game on Sunday between the Detroit Lions and the San Francisco 49ers.

They are forced to perform Don't Stop Believin' with the line "Born and raised in South Detroit" where all the 49ers' fans will boo, but the Detroit fans will cheer.

I wonder if Journey will perform "Can't Tame the Lion!"

I wonder if it will be live or playback like the Vegas F1 spot.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:I wonder if it will be live or playback like the Vegas F1 spot.

I am BY NO MEANS a fan of lip syncing/backing tracks. (Just look at my other posts, if you don't believe me!) But, I think there is a big difference between a singer like Arnel lipping on a tv show & doing so during a concert.

I'd lay odds it will be recorded. The NFL hasn't had anyone play live since Justin Timberlake ripped off Janet's bra.

I'm joking.

But am I?

I bet they play Lights and say they wrote it about their hometown San Francisco, but leave out the part about it NOT being about Los Angeles.

The clip I saw of DSB is straight from the Revelation DVD. Lip syncing yet again. Can't comment on the other songs

Saw one odd clip of the show and it looked like they put them in a concourse or something. Very odd. Couldn't' hear anything. I did hear them playing in the background of the half time "analysis" of the game. Pretty lame coverage.

Lyrics changed, from Deen's FB:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... tid=ZbWKwL

kmjrr wrote:Lyrics changed, from Deen's FB:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... tid=ZbWKwL

They would do this during the Augeri tape years when he would call out a specific city. You just turn the track down and then back up.

It wasn't changing the city name in DSB, it was the last 30 seconds of the song. Something like "don't stop, niners" and something more that I couldn't catch. But he sounded good singing that.

kmjrr wrote:It wasn't changing the city name in DSB, it was the last 30 seconds of the song. Something like "don't stop, niners" and something more that I couldn't catch. But he sounded good singing that.

This is repeated a few times at the end chorus.
Don't stop, Niners - City by the bay...
Don't stop, Niners - City by the bay...

But also, they do change 'South Detroit' to 'San Francisco'.

later~

Arkansas wrote:

kmjrr wrote:It wasn't changing the city name in DSB, it was the last 30 seconds of the song. Something like "don't stop, niners" and something more that I couldn't catch. But he sounded good singing that.

This is repeated a few times at the end chorus.
Don't stop, Niners - City by the bay...
Don't stop, Niners - City by the bay...

But also, they do change 'South Detroit' to 'San Francisco'.

later~

Thanks. And yea, again, they would also do this when Augeri was tape. End of the song would be live. As with the F1 lipped performance, I have to ask - what is going on with Arnel?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Arkansas wrote:

kmjrr wrote:It wasn't changing the city name in DSB, it was the last 30 seconds of the song. Something like "don't stop, niners" and something more that I couldn't catch. But he sounded good singing that.

This is repeated a few times at the end chorus.
Don't stop, Niners - City by the bay...
Don't stop, Niners - City by the bay...

But also, they do change 'South Detroit' to 'San Francisco'.

later~

Thanks. And yea, again, they would also do this when Augeri was tape. End of the song would be live. As with the F1 lipped performance, I have to ask - what is going on with Arnel?

I did chuckle when I read a comment about the performance from someone saying how well rested Arne's voice sounded. I'm like, yeah, because it was a recording.

Did you watch and listen to the video? If it was recorded, it was recently recorded because it was especially made for the 49ers game. And if it was recently recorded then his voice was well rested recently. The songs were not their standard length and/or lyrics, making it very easy to get it wrong if he was lip synching. You all are such experts that it was lip synched based on crappy cell phone videos.

kmjrr wrote:Did you watch and listen to the video?

I did. I think the whole thing is tape with the exception of the ad-libs. In particular, I have less than zero doubt that DSB is tape. Same vocal as F1.

https://youtu.be/U9hRrhNIlaE?si=LblEg3W0aWz8e27g

kmjrr wrote:If it was recorded, it was recently recorded because it was especially made for the 49ers game.

How? Because they briefly dropped the recording so Arnel could give a few generic sports shout-outs? Big whoop.

kmjrr wrote:You all are such experts that it was lip synched based on crappy cell phone videos.

And you are such an "expert" that you didn't even start posting here till 2007 - long after this band was caught red-handed doing these same pathetic stunts. Or do you deny that too?

JourneyHard wrote:I bet they play Lights and say they wrote it about their hometown San Francisco, but leave out the part about it NOT being about Los Angeles.

Such a pointless point

The song IS about San Fran - what sense would it make to tell the true origin story of the song at concerts?

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Arkansas wrote:

kmjrr wrote:It wasn't changing the city name in DSB, it was the last 30 seconds of the song. Something like "don't stop, niners" and something more that I couldn't catch. But he sounded good singing that.

This is repeated a few times at the end chorus.
Don't stop, Niners - City by the bay...
Don't stop, Niners - City by the bay...

But also, they do change 'South Detroit' to 'San Francisco'.

later~

Thanks. And yea, again, they would also do this when Augeri was tape. End of the song would be live. As with the F1 lipped performance, I have to ask - what is going on with Arnel?

This is such a non-story. Every artist was 100% tape at F1. Not one member of Journey played a note. Deen didn't even have his normal kit or his headset on. Other artists played solo with a full band sound. The way the event was set up, live wasn't really feasible.

And you are such an "expert" that you didn't even start posting here till 2007 - long after this band was caught red-handed doing these same pathetic stunts. Or do you deny that too?

Exactly. There is a hierarchy here on this site, whose opinion gets listened to and who gets ignored. I've been around way before 2007. Been to 24 shows since 2000 and met the members several times. I'm very particular about the sound. I never saw Augeri lip synch, but I often cringed at his off key notes. The year he was let go they hadn't made it here yet, so I saw them with Soto. I have little doubt they used recordings at the end of his run. And he still sounds horrible - I don't understand the positive reviews he gets here for recent performances. Great guy though. But it seems like Journey and/or Arnel are getting pummelled here unnecessarily. They get a shot on TV and a playoff game performance and I doubt they get to call the shots, especially at this point in their career. Arnel is a good guy with a good voice still - not like the early days but still very good.

Hollywood wrote:This is such a non-story. Every artist was 100% tape at F1. Not one member of Journey played a note. Deen didn't even have his normal kit or his headset on.

By this logic, why wear inner ear monitors? Why even use microphones? Why have instruments?
Look, we all know where this is headed....
If you are willing to defend F1 and the NFC game, then you'll excuse this behavior on the tour also.

kmjrr wrote:Exactly. There is a hierarchy here on this site, whose opinion gets listened to and who gets ignored. I've been around way before 2007. Been to 24 shows since 2000 and met the members several times. I'm very particular about the sound. I never saw Augeri lip synch, but I often cringed at his off key notes. The year he was let go they hadn't made it here yet, so I saw them with Soto. I have little doubt they used recordings at the end of his run. And he still sounds horrible - I don't understand the positive reviews he gets here for recent performances. Great guy though.

Lip-syncing deserves to be questioned, regardless of who is doing it - even Perry.

As for Arnel vs. Augeri.....Augeri always was pitchy at times and Arnel was the better technical singer. Augeri was the better front man imo, but YMMV.

However, despite their differences (or similarities), both have reached the same crossroads moment - pretending to sing in front of fans.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

kmjrr wrote:Exactly. There is a hierarchy here on this site, whose opinion gets listened to and who gets ignored. I've been around way before 2007. Been to 24 shows since 2000 and met the members several times. I'm very particular about the sound. I never saw Augeri lip synch, but I often cringed at his off key notes. The year he was let go they hadn't made it here yet, so I saw them with Soto. I have little doubt they used recordings at the end of his run. And he still sounds horrible - I don't understand the positive reviews he gets here for recent performances. Great guy though.

Lip-syncing deserves to be questioned, regardless of who is doing it - even Perry.

As for Arnel vs. Augeri.....Augeri always was pitchy at times and Arnel was the better technical singer. Augeri was the better front man imo, but YMMV.

However, despite their differences (or similarities), both have reached the same crossroads moment - pretending to sing in front of fans.

The last I read was when Augeri was asked about it, he said something like, "All I can tell you is that I was always singing." So, IMO, Augeri sang at every concert....but Kevin Elson made the decision to turn his mic down and turn the prerecorded track up. So, Augeri was singing, not "lip synching", but Kevin Elson chose to not use it.

Monker wrote:The last I read was when Augeri was asked about it, he said something like, "All I can tell you is that I was always singing." So, IMO, Augeri sang at every concert....but Kevin Elson made the decision to turn his mic down and turn the prerecorded track up. So, Augeri was singing, not "lip synching", but Kevin Elson chose to not use it.

I've read all that too - plus Svante's account from the Swedish festival hearing the raw feed vs the tape. That being said, given the sudden placement of an oversized fuzzy mic firmly against SA's mouth during the last tour(s), I don't completely buy it. I'm sure SA was using his vocal chords on some level to appease his conscious and fulfil a technical contractual aspect of the job, but nobody can really sing with your mouth obstructed (at least not well). Everyone - not just Elson - was in on the big con.

While I don't like watching them lip sync anywhere, at any time, I'm not going to get too worried until they start doing it in normal Journey concerts (as opposed to tv events, quick appearances, etc.) I'm anxious to see what happens on the 9th, and I will certainly be checking here for all of the perspectives/interpretations.

Arnel sounded really bad for the last couple of years then suddenly overnight he started sounding good again. They said it was because they changed the sound engineer, so now Arnel could hear himself. I always thought that seemed fishy to me. Lipsyncing on a TV show is obviously not a big deal, since it's par for the course, but if it transitions over to the live stage it is a dealbreaker. Maybe it already has (see above). Let's see what happens when the tour starts in the next week or so.

Ozzy used to sound terrible during the last Sabbath reunion, then when he went on his first solo tour following this, he suddenly sounded good again. I think there's a lot of stuff going on that we don't know about.

danielb wrote:Arnel sounded really bad for the last couple of years then suddenly overnight he started sounding good again. They said it was because they changed the sound engineer, so now Arnel could hear himself. I always thought that seemed fishy to me. Lipsyncing on a TV show is obviously not a big deal, since it's par for the course, but if it transitions over to the live stage it is a dealbreaker. Maybe it already has (see above). Let's see what happens when the tour starts in the next week or so.

Ozzy used to sound terrible during the last Sabbath reunion, then when he went on his first solo tour following this, he suddenly sounded good again. I think there's a lot of stuff going on that we don't know about.

I totally agree on just about all of the points you made. However, I do recall, right after Arnel suddenly improved due to the new monitor engineer, a big discussion on this board. In that discussion people made some compelling arguments that it could have, in fact, all been legit. One person mentioned being backstage for the HOF induction and recalled hearing them complain about Arnel's inability to hear himself. Others on the board, claiming to be musicians, spoke of the importance of monitors/hearing oneself sing and how better monitor mixes could improve one's singing. So, while I still agree that it seemed fishy, given how quickly Arnel improved so much, I think it actually could have really been the case.

P.S. - As for Ozzy: Why would they refrain from using the best technology/methods available on a Black Sabbath farewell tour? In other words, why would they not make Ozzy sound the best possible with Sabbath, but choose to do so on a solo tour?

Same machinery behind Sabbath and Ozzy. Ie, Sharon. Maybe they simply came to the conclusion that he needed vocal help following the Sabbath run.

Since Arnel's voice is the primary concern for both himself and the band, it makes no sense that he would go several years on the road without hearing himself properly, and then all of a sudden, they decide to change the sound engineer, and his old voice comes back overnight.

AP may be lip syncing for F1 and this halftime show, but I saw them in 2022 and he wasn't lipping.

AP's accent and struggles with the English language would make it difficult for him to convincingly lip sync songs he sings in English. The incongruence between his lips and the lyrics would be evident.

Plus, he's not deepthroating a mic the way Augeri does.

SP lip synced in a number of different TV/high profile appearances in the '70s and 80s. I'm not worried about this until it happens on tour, in which case I'll be fucking furious.

Here's food for thought!

It's a high quality video of the entire 5/20 show from last year. I believe it was also the final night of the tour.

While I haven't watched the whole thing carefully, I didn't notice anything fishy. I DID notice some bad/wonky notes. And, I think his voice sounds raspier/huskier than on the recent taped vocals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LW5jQYcPEqs&t=1522s

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Monker wrote:The last I read was when Augeri was asked about it, he said something like, "All I can tell you is that I was always singing." So, IMO, Augeri sang at every concert....but Kevin Elson made the decision to turn his mic down and turn the prerecorded track up. So, Augeri was singing, not "lip synching", but Kevin Elson chose to not use it.

I've read all that too - plus Svante's account from the Swedish festival hearing the raw feed vs the tape. That being said, given the sudden placement of an oversized fuzzy mic firmly against SA's mouth during the last tour(s), I don't completely buy it. I'm sure SA was using his vocal chords on some level to appease his conscious and fulfil a technical contractual aspect of the job, but nobody can really sing with your mouth obstructed (at least not well). Everyone - not just Elson - was in on the big con.

There are legitimate reasons to use foam around a mic. It reduces wind noise in outdoor concerts. It reduces other secondary sounds from surroundings, like other instruments. It also reduces that hard popping affect from certain hard consonants (like "B" and "P")....especially when you sing close to the mic. I posted pictures here of other singers using the exact same type of foam around the mic. It could simply be Augeri not wanting to sing so "loud" with his face away from the mic. Many singers sing with the lips right on the mic...it's not that uncommon.

I was watching a classic Who concert a while back and Roger Daultry practicaly eats the mic:

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/119440 ... 3i6Fc9fGk=

Monker wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Monker wrote:The last I read was when Augeri was asked about it, he said something like, "All I can tell you is that I was always singing." So, IMO, Augeri sang at every concert....but Kevin Elson made the decision to turn his mic down and turn the prerecorded track up. So, Augeri was singing, not "lip synching", but Kevin Elson chose to not use it.

I've read all that too - plus Svante's account from the Swedish festival hearing the raw feed vs the tape. That being said, given the sudden placement of an oversized fuzzy mic firmly against SA's mouth during the last tour(s), I don't completely buy it. I'm sure SA was using his vocal chords on some level to appease his conscious and fulfil a technical contractual aspect of the job, but nobody can really sing with your mouth obstructed (at least not well). Everyone - not just Elson - was in on the big con.

There are legitimate reasons to use foam around a mic. It reduces wind noise in outdoor concerts. It reduces other secondary sounds from surroundings, like other instruments. It also reduces that hard popping affect from certain hard consonants (like "B" and "P")....especially when you sing close to the mic. I posted pictures here of other singers using the exact same type of foam around the mic. It could simply be Augeri not wanting to sing so "loud" with his face away from the mic. Many singers sing with the lips right on the mic...it's not that uncommon.

I was watching a classic Who concert a while back and Roger Daultry practically eats the mic:

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/119440 ... 3i6Fc9fGk=
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7b/b8/0c/7bb8 ... 9a2e11.jpg