Eagles/Don Henly not singing live

[The_Noble_Cause]

This is not that difficult.

I want two urls to two YouTube videos from two different concerts that show Augeri using the same vocal track. Two videos that would show Augeri doing the same thing Don Henley was doing in the two videos Fil compared.

What I want to do is send them to Fil to see if he will do an in depth analysis as he did with the Eagles. I already Emailed him with the general info of using the 2001 Vegas DVD for Journey concerts from 2005 - 2006 when Augeri left. But, to save him the time, I would like some die hard Tapegater to give an example. I compared a 2005 "Open Arms" to the 2001 Vegas show and I feel I hear different expressions in his voice and I am not confident they would match.

So, what two videos should Fil compare to get a match?

Fil's channel has over 300k followers. Aside from trying to selfishly validate your own POV, what purpose would this serve right now besides hurting Steve Augeri?

If you must, however, here are two Separate Ways tracks from 2 different 2005 concerts - both just isolated vocals from Vegas 2001.

https://youtu.be/jCATX2KIVS4?si=CAsbPf-j1tySVlhr
https://youtu.be/C_KxPrhfokk?si=6VM9R0hgG2EZ2cfA

[Jeremey]

This is not that difficult.

I want two urls to two YouTube videos from two different concerts that show Augeri using the same vocal track. Two videos that would show Augeri doing the same thing Don Henley was doing in the two videos Fil compared.

What I want to do is send them to Fil to see if he will do an in depth analysis as he did with the Eagles. I already Emailed him with the general info of using the 2001 Vegas DVD for Journey concerts from 2005 - 2006 when Augeri left. But, to save him the time, I would like some die hard Tapegater to give an example. I compared a 2005 "Open Arms" to the 2001 Vegas show and I feel I hear different expressions in his voice and I am not confident they would match.

So, what two videos should Fil compare to get a match?

Fil's channel has over 300k followers. Aside from trying to selfishly validate your own POV, what purpose would this serve right now besides hurting Steve Augeri?

If you must, however, here are two Separate Ways tracks from 2 different 2005 concerts - both just isolated vocals from Vegas 2001.

https://youtu.be/jCATX2KIVS4?si=CAsbPf-j1tySVlhr
https://youtu.be/C_KxPrhfokk?si=6VM9R0hgG2EZ2cfA

Wow, great find TNC! In fact, one of those (or both) may have been among the recordings used for that same comparison back in the day. That being said, I totally agree on bringing any negative publicity to Steve Augeri about something that happened 20+ years ago and was obviously something that was played out in a very public way and I"m sure is not something Augeri would want to relive.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Wow, great find TNC!

It's all out there for public examination. But really, why bother at this point?

As an Augeri super fan, the guy is always pitchy live. Any of these clips from 2005 - featuring the auto-tuned DVD tracks and the big puffy mic head covering his mouth - is just so obviously bogus. He doesn't sound like that or sing like that - even in his heyday.

More clips for you Monker. BTGY from 2 different 2005 concerts.

https://youtu.be/lq4wriOCMV8?si=BEp9DbTD3J3ep0Dc
https://youtu.be/sKhs8r8MH5c?si=3dB6G5NzlPqeY0yW

Note at the end of both of these - when he goes live to ad lib (4:08, 4:36) - his voice basically falls apart. Due to the infection, or whatever he was struggling with, he had really no high range on this tour. As a general rule, if it sounded good on this tour, it was tape. The only song live night after night was LTS. I assume Elson thought it made sense to leave that one raw, as it was the end of the night - I really have no idea.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Same thing here with Only The Young. Despite it not being on Vegas 2001. Identical vocals. Other non-Vegas 2001 tracks heard on tour included WYLAW, Chain Reaction.

https://youtu.be/STayyPS6vdU?si=0VnT6J7vk0S1Swmc
https://youtu.be/UKN4ORn3QzQ?si=mmpH-pRzCkhaVyIv

[The_Noble_Cause]

Higher Place (straight from Vegas 2001). At 4:48pm when he goes live, his voice falls apart. The Vegas track and his live voice on this tour is like night and day. He was not well.


https://youtu.be/4eYK2lejTmo?si=sk9IwxmJce9omRHF

[The_Noble_Cause]

Stone In Love. 2 separate 2005 shows. Same isolated vocal. Goes live at the end and turns to shit.

https://youtu.be/TXu2d0a-q88?si=PbkEoVMofiK8RBnB
https://youtu.be/u-5P-OHVaE4?si=rYo0wlpXVI9k5XK-

[Journey/Survivor]

This YouTube clip is talking about a number of bands lip syncing and in some cases faking the instrument performances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0JNgKXZSkQ

[Monker]

Any of these clips from 2005 - featuring the auto-tuned DVD tracks

Just a note on this because I see people making this mistake over and over again. Auto-tune is normally for live concert vocals. The vocal is basically processed in real time to be forced in tune. I suppose you can use it in the studio but in the studio it is more using pitch correction manually which is more fine tuned. A producer can selectively correct certain bits and ignore others that may be off a tiny bit but they want to leave them alone. It is possible to pitch correct in the studio so selectively that you do not notice it...Fil has demonstrated this. Auto-tune is also not as accurate. A piece can be sharp or flat enough that auto-tune thinks it should be to the next higher/lower note instead of what the singer was really meant to sing. So, in both this case and Don Henly, they were pitch corrected in the studio, not auto-tuned.

Yeah, it's nit picky...but I see so many people just saying "auto tuned" and it is normally not the case if changed in the studio.

[Monker]

I find it ironic that people now are being protective of Augeri. Back in the day, people were piling on with hatred towards him. That is not too strong of a word, either. Dean specifically said how much he hated Augeri, over and over again. I was probably the only person on here who was trying to limit the blame game towards Augeri. People here blamed him specifically and solely for everything that happened...and Neal pled ignorance...which, IMO, is impossible. It would have been nice to have seen a little of this defense of Augeri back then. It's a bit too late now.

As for my motivation. I just want to see Fil do it. He may completely ignore it...and that's fine. But, I think it would be interesting to see Fil pick it apart. It's not about not believing Jeremy, or thinking today's software is better, or whatever. I would just like to see a true unbiased analysis of it.

I have followed Fil's channel for years. I absolutely hate auto-tune, pitch correction, and the various vocal affects that are used nowadays. It sounds horrible to me and he exposes all of that. He recently exposed a live album from the 70's that was rereleased and it now has pitch correction applied to it. So, the vocals are NOT what was recorded back in the 70's. It makes you wonder, do the rereleases of Captured, GHLive, or the '81 Houston show have pitch correction? If they rerelease them in the future will they be "remastered" with pitch correction...and would anybody really notice?

[Jeremey]

I find it ironic that people now are being protective of Augeri. Back in the day, people were piling on with hatred towards him. That is not too strong of a word, either. Dean specifically said how much he hated Augeri, over and over again. I was probably the only person on here who was trying to limit the blame game towards Augeri. People here blamed him specifically and solely for everything that happened...and Neal pled ignorance...which, IMO, is impossible. It would have been nice to have seen a little of this defense of Augeri back then. It's a bit too late now.

As for my motivation. I just want to see Fil do it. He may completely ignore it...and that's fine. But, I think it would be interesting to see Fil pick it apart. It's not about not believing Jeremy, or thinking today's software is better, or whatever. I would just like to see a true unbiased analysis of it.

I have followed Fil's channel for years. I absolutely hate auto-tune, pitch correction, and the various vocal affects that are used nowadays. It sounds horrible to me and he exposes all of that. He recently exposed a live album from the 70's that was rereleased and it now has pitch correction applied to it. So, the vocals are NOT what was recorded back in the 70's. It makes you wonder, do the rereleases of Captured, GHLive, or the '81 Houston show have pitch correction? If they rerelease them in the future will they be "remastered" with pitch correction...and would anybody really notice?

I assure you I was not piling on hatred for Augeri either then nor now nor ever.

The only reason I agreed to review the files back then was because of the complete and total civil war it created on this message board, and it was very obvious - there was no bias, the two files separately created a single unison vocal take. Fil will discover exactly the same, maybe since he's using modern video tools to show the notes on the screen that will be useful for some but I assure you if the two tracks were not identical it would be very obvious to even the untrained ear.

I don't think there's any point in relitigating or bringing any of this to light now, it's 20 years on and nothing would be served except to get somebody clicks on their youtube videos, but you guys have at it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I find it ironic that people now are being protective of Augeri. Back in the day, people were piling on with hatred towards him. That is not too strong of a word, either. Dean specifically said how much he hated Augeri, over and over again. I was probably the only person on here who was trying to limit the blame game towards Augeri. People here blamed him specifically and solely for everything that happened...and Neal pled ignorance...which, IMO, is impossible. It would have been nice to have seen a little of this defense of Augeri back then. It's a bit too late now.

The band moved on and Steve A moved on..... both are doing well. Why would people wish ill in 2024? I think fans had a right to be angry when it was going on. But not everybody was on a witch hunt.

[AR]

How's this for getting busted lip syncing? Kiss has been caught rehanded a lot since 2019 and no one seems to care. Excuses made for "age, putting the best show possible" etc.

On this instance they lose time with the click track, pyro goes off early and you hear Paul Stanley "singing" when he isn't at the live mic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkHPD1rUzdA

Tapegate 2006 in 2024 wouldn't be a big deal. Younger generations consider it technology and "everybody does it".

[Journey/Survivor]

How's this for getting busted lip syncing? Kiss has been caught rehanded a lot since 2019 and no one seems to care. Excuses made for "age, putting the best show possible" etc.

On this instance they lose time with the click track, pyro goes off early and you hear Paul Stanley "singing" when he isn't at the live mic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkHPD1rUzdA

Tapegate 2006 in 2024 wouldn't be a big deal. Younger generations consider it technology and "everybody does it".

The clip that I posted a link for above in this thread goes into a bit more detail about the KISS thing and a bunch of other bands as well.

[Loneman1]

Tapegate 2006 in 2024 wouldn't be a big deal. Younger generations consider it technology and "everybody does it".

Ain't that the truth unfortuately........I was talking to my fiancee's daughter's boyfriend a few months back and asked him what his favorite band was and he gave me a dumbfounded look and asked "bands?", so I stifled my urge to laugh and kill at the same time and explained examples like Journey, Metallica, Fleetwood Mac, etc, and he comes back with "ohhhh I don't really listen to any of them, but I have a few favorite rappers"........again, urge to kill supressed, which is why I'm able to post this outside of prison.

There is no real concept of music like we used to know with your average Gen Z teen nowadays, its all one main performer with a million production add ons that all sound pretty similar with that fuzzy 80's synth recreation with a select few that stand a little above the rest. Everyone has a dance routine on stage so lipsyncing is now probably the norm for that audience like you said Ed.

I gotta say, the dude's blank stare response to what a "band" is hurt my soul........and it ain't easy to hit me that deep!

[jestor92]

Paul Stanley became a fraud lip syncing for Kiss the last several years. Total disgrace. Even worse are some fans giving him a free pass.

It was during the End of the Road tour and the reason I wouldn’t attend the show.

The lip syncing and things of that nature are the reason I don’t see concerts anymore. If I to hear canned music I’ll pop a “live” album on.

Actually started at the Kiss Kruise in 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MT86r0i2fD0&t

I consider the 2019 Kruise the dress rehearsal for the EOTR tour

[jestor92]

How's this for getting busted lip syncing? Kiss has been caught rehanded a lot since 2019 and no one seems to care. Excuses made for "age, putting the best show possible" etc.

On this instance they lose time with the click track, pyro goes off early and you hear Paul Stanley "singing" when he isn't at the live mic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkHPD1rUzdA

Tapegate 2006 in 2024 wouldn't be a big deal. Younger generations consider it technology and "everybody does it".

Different times. In 2005-06 is was taboo to perform to tapes. Now a lot of artists do it in the pop, R&B, and classic rock field

[RumTumJM]

I find it ironic that people now are being protective of Augeri. Back in the day, people were piling on with hatred towards him. That is not too strong of a word, either. Dean specifically said how much he hated Augeri, over and over again. I was probably the only person on here who was trying to limit the blame game towards Augeri. People here blamed him specifically and solely for everything that happened...and Neal pled ignorance...which, IMO, is impossible. It would have been nice to have seen a little of this defense of Augeri back then. It's a bit too late now.

As for my motivation. I just want to see Fil do it. He may completely ignore it...and that's fine. But, I think it would be interesting to see Fil pick it apart. It's not about not believing Jeremy, or thinking today's software is better, or whatever. I would just like to see a true unbiased analysis of it.

I have followed Fil's channel for years. I absolutely hate auto-tune, pitch correction, and the various vocal affects that are used nowadays. It sounds horrible to me and he exposes all of that. He recently exposed a live album from the 70's that was rereleased and it now has pitch correction applied to it. So, the vocals are NOT what was recorded back in the 70's. It makes you wonder, do the rereleases of Captured, GHLive, or the '81 Houston show have pitch correction? If they rerelease them in the future will they be "remastered" with pitch correction...and would anybody really notice?

When did he release that video, about a 70s live album being rereleased with pitch correction applied to it? (What album was it?) - I'd love to watch it!

On the origial topic, I must admit, I saw The Eagles in September, and I was fortuante enough to have decent seats (100 level, not far from the stage). I spent the whole show watching Henley, as opposed to the screens. - While I believe Fil 100%, I didn't even need to see his analysis to conclude that Henley was lipping! I mean, just about every song he sung sounded crystal clear, and EVERY high note he hit sounded perfect! (I don't care how old he is or isn't. I doubt ANY singer would sound THAT good & hit every high note THAT PERFECTLY live in concert!) - Fil just confirmed what I concluded & gave ample reasons why it's correct. (I will admit, though, I had kinda convinced myself that he was likely just lipping just the songs that he sung while drumming. Fil proved that he lips more songs!)

[Art Vandelay]

I've seen Earth, Wind and Fire a number of times in the mid/late '90s. Philip Bailey was always known for his falsetto voice. The last time I saw them, I noticed that Bailey would put his hand on the side of his belt when it was time to hit a soaring high note. Not sure what was going on there, if he was hitting a device hooked to his mic or if it was something hooked up to his earpiece so he could hear himself clearer. Maybe he had something going on during this time that he needed a little assistance to deliver the goods. But it was every time he had to hit that high range.

[Marabelle]

There was a time on Steve Augeri’s website where people were posting hurtful mean and wicked things about the man. I probably was one of them because I felt at the time Mr Perry had been unceremoniously dumped from the band. Those for me were early days of websites and being faithful to the person you admired with a lot of crazy talk almost seemed obligatory. Kind of reminded me of gunfights in the old West. Just my 2 cents while reading some of the comments on here about Henley. He always rubbed me the wrong way. That’s a whole other story.

[jestor92]

I've seen Earth, Wind and Fire a number of times in the mid/late '90s. Philip Bailey was always known for his falsetto voice. The last time I saw them, I noticed that Bailey would put his hand on the side of his belt when it was time to hit a soaring high note. Not sure what was going on there, if he was hitting a device hooked to his mic or if it was something hooked up to his earpiece so he could hear himself clearer. Maybe he had something going on during this time that he needed a little assistance to deliver the goods. But it was every time he had to hit that high range.

I remember seeing a video of Queen with Adam Lambert singing to backing tracks, most of the pop stars and hip hop/R&S perform to backing tracks. Just have to look no further than the Super Bowl when someone is dancing on stage huffing and puffing yet sounding magnificent without any heavy breathing. The concert performance has gone from a live concert to being a live spectacle where fans are just happy seeing the show instead of seeing and hearing a live performance. In 2005 when Journey were busted there was blow back because it was a different time and a live performance meant they were supposed to be live. If the artist has a night or two off it gets on YouTube and can drive down ticket sales which is where they make their money.

[Art Vandelay]

I've seen Earth, Wind and Fire a number of times in the mid/late '90s. Philip Bailey was always known for his falsetto voice. The last time I saw them, I noticed that Bailey would put his hand on the side of his belt when it was time to hit a soaring high note. Not sure what was going on there, if he was hitting a device hooked to his mic or if it was something hooked up to his earpiece so he could hear himself clearer. Maybe he had something going on during this time that he needed a little assistance to deliver the goods. But it was every time he had to hit that high range.

I remember seeing a video of Queen with Adam Lambert singing to backing tracks, most of the pop stars and hip hop/R&S perform to backing tracks. Just have to look no further than the Super Bowl when someone is dancing on stage huffing and puffing yet sounding magnificent without any heavy breathing. The concert performance has gone from a live concert to being a live spectacle where fans are just happy seeing the show instead of seeing and hearing a live performance. In 2005 when Journey were busted there was blow back because it was a different time and a live performance meant they were supposed to be live. If the artist has a night or two off it gets on YouTube and can drive down ticket sales which is where they make their money.

I think it's kind of expected, or at least accepted, when it's done by a pop artist whose show is very dance-heavy. Not that I'm heavily into that genre, but where they lack in natural vocal ability they usually make up doing things on stage that I couldn't imagine doing. Performing to a back track as a 'live band' is another issue.

Also, just to clarify, there was no doubt that Philip Bailey was singing live at the shows I've seen. He was doing all kinds of vocal runs that were impressive and would have been impossible to lip sync to. But there was definitely something going on to either enhance his range or bring his vocals more up front.

[Journey/Survivor]

This is a clip about Wolfgang Van Halen criticizing bands for faking lead vocals or instruments live.

It also mentions Def Leppard, Motley Crue and KISS faking stuff live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGiJ8ZJgY-I

[jestor92]

This is a clip about Wolfgang Van Halen criticizing bands for faking lead vocals or instruments live.

It also mentions Def Leppard, Motley Crue and KISS faking stuff live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGiJ8ZJgY-I

It’s a slippery slope right now for musicians. Every show they perform at least a few songs are going to show up on YouTube, facebook, TikTok, etc within a few hours. If you’re a nostalgic act and you have a singer suffering through the set you’re possibly losing income for future shows because you’re going to hear “(insert classic rock singers name) can’t sing anymore”. KISS is my favorite band and I’ll admit to skipping the chance to see them after the Sonic Boom through 2019 because Paul sounded rough. Loss of income. I also hear and see Ace Frehley’s recent performance and same deal, skip the shows because he’s done. Now if I didn’t know better I’d go see the live show, which is where the vocal enhancement helps all the musicians if they desire.

I don’t remember the last concert I went to because I want a live performance. If I want to hear a taped performance I’ll pop in Alive! I saw Journey with Augeri when he was lipping and you couldn’t really tell. I felt cheated when it came out he was using enhancements. I had purchased tickets for the Journey/Def Leppard show prior to Augeri being busted. Had I known he was using the enhancement I wouldn’t have gone. During the show I felt bad for him because he sounded awful and Castronovo had to cover a lot of his stuff. I haven’t and won’t attend another Journey show because of the enhancements they were busted with.