MR

Please listen to this section of the Journey song Escape using this link, and tell me if you think that it sounds similar to any piece of music from any song at all from any other band.

I want you to listen from 204 till 219. So two minutes and four seconds into the song until two minutes and nineteen seconds into the song. And tell me if that section of music sounds like any part of any song at all from any other band at all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GlUFI6iWdU

Yeah I'm sure I've had a feeling about it, but can't put my finger on it.

JohnH wrote:Yeah I'm sure I've had a feeling about it, but can't put my finger on it.

Thank you for responding! Please check this thread again in a few days, as I want to follow up on this with you if that's alright with you!?

I still want to hear other peoples opinions as well.

JohnH wrote:Yeah I'm sure I've had a feeling about it, but can't put my finger on it.

Same here. Since day one I've thought the same thing. I'd pin it to something, but then hear something else another day.
Maybe that little four bar progression was just popular back then.
Thing is, it's the basis for the entire song. Maybe others copied them.


later~

Kind of has a pop, upbeat Smoke on the Water thing happening

Art Vandelay wrote:Kind of has a pop, upbeat Smoke on the Water thing happening

Had you ever thought that it sounded like Smoke On The Water previously? Or is it just that by listening to it closely now, you now hear a similarity?

Do you think that Schon was trying to rip off Smoke On The Water?

Journey/Survivor wrote:

Art Vandelay wrote:Kind of has a pop, upbeat Smoke on the Water thing happening

Had you ever thought that it sounded like Smoke On The Water previously? Or is it just that by listening to it closely now, you now hear a similarity?

Do you think that Schon was trying to rip off Smoke On The Water?

No, I never considered the similarity before. Listening to that part now, it's the only song that I think sounds vaguely similar to it. But no, I don't think there was any copying or ripping anyone off. It's a melody that works for the song and has just so happens to similar chords to SOTW.

I always thought Separate Ways sounded similar to parts of Black is Black (I Want My Baby Back). Maybe there was some influence there....maybe. But I wouldn't consider that one a rip off either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkgyV_tTQfQ

Now that you mention it It does sound like Smoke on the Water. This is why they need to release "The Making of the Escape Album." I am sure there are all kinds of interesting reasons they did certain things in all the songs. I am sure Neal has a reason to sample Smoke on the Water.

Here's the last request that I'm going to make in regards to listening to songs related to this thread that I started....

Please listen to the intros to these two songs that I'm going to give links to.

The first song is by Carlos Lyra. I believe that it was released in about 1962 or thereabout?

The second song is by Astrud Gilberto. It is a remake of the Carlos Lyra song. And I believe it was made in or about 1966?

The opening riff to both songs is the same, except that some of the instruments are different or at least mixed differently.

Smoke on the water came out in 1972. Tell me if you think that Smoke On The Water only coincidentally sounds similar to the songs by Lyra and Gilberto? Or if you think that Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple clearly ripped off the other two songs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekGNq4OQD2Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVrgj3A0_BY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhETG7n7Fpo

Journey/Survivor wrote:Here's the last request that I'm going to make in regards to listening to songs related to this thread that I started....

Please listen to the intros to these two songs that I'm going to give links to.

The first song is by Carlos Lyra. I believe that it was released in about 1962 or thereabout?

The second song is by Astrud Gilberto. It is a remake of the Carlos Lyra song. And I believe it was made in or about 1966?

The opening riff to both songs is the same, except that some of the instruments are different or at least mixed differently.

Smoke on the water came out in 1972. Tell me if you think that Smoke On The Water only coincidentally sounds similar to the songs by Lyra and Gilberto? Or if you think that Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple clearly ripped off the other two songs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekGNq4OQD2Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVrgj3A0_BY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhETG7n7Fpo

Wow, interesting. I never heard either of those, but I like both. I now have a mix of Gilberto playing on Alexa...so thank you for that hahah.

I do think there is a difference between being influenced/paying homage, and just flat out ripping someone off. Also the style of music makes a difference, too. The songs you shared are far from Deep Purple, but the influence is definitely there. After so many years of recorded music, it's kind of impossible to be completely original and not show some form of influence.

Even Led Zeppelin were accused of 'borrowing' from the song Taurus by Spirit for Stairway to Heaven.

If anything, I am more offended by an artist or group who borrows too much from their own catalogue.

This forum has officially jumped the shark.

FamilyMan wrote:This forum has officially jumped the shark.

This is what happens when there's no drama with the band.....we create our own.

There is something about that section of Escape though. I remember thinking the same thing when I first heard it, like a definite deja vu moment like I feel like I heard it before but couldn't put my finger on it. I still can't!

FamilyMan wrote:This forum has officially jumped the shark.

I don't really know why you say that?

But there is a specific reason why I'm asking these things that I do not want to say just yet. But I will very soon.

The song as a whole has always reminded me a bit of "Union Jack" by the Babys. It has that same epic sound and several changes of pace. It has a similar sound at times, but not note for note. Maybe Jon brought some of the influence to Escape (the song).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xzE3C9 ... J5&index=4

BTW, I've always been annoyed by the "In sailor boots in navy blue, 'ello, 'ello, 'ello" in that thick accent...still like the song tho!

Also, just prior to the point in Escape that is pointed out, there is a bit that reminds me of "La Raza del Sol".

Monker wrote:The song as a whole has always reminded me a bit of "Union Jack" by the Babys. It has that same epic sound and several changes of pace. It has a similar sound at times, but not note for note. Maybe Jon brought some of the influence to Escape (the song).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xzE3C9 ... J5&index=4

BTW, I've always been annoyed by the "In sailor boots in navy blue, 'ello, 'ello, 'ello" in that thick accent...still like the song tho!

Also, just prior to the point in Escape that is pointed out, there is a bit that reminds me of "La Raza del Sol".

John Waite has one of the thickest British (Speaking) accents that you will ever hear.

Union Jacks is my favorite Baby's album.

Art Vandelay wrote:

Journey/Survivor wrote:Here's the last request that I'm going to make in regards to listening to songs related to this thread that I started....

Please listen to the intros to these two songs that I'm going to give links to.

The first song is by Carlos Lyra. I believe that it was released in about 1962 or thereabout?

The second song is by Astrud Gilberto. It is a remake of the Carlos Lyra song. And I believe it was made in or about 1966?

The opening riff to both songs is the same, except that some of the instruments are different or at least mixed differently.

Smoke on the water came out in 1972. Tell me if you think that Smoke On The Water only coincidentally sounds similar to the songs by Lyra and Gilberto? Or if you think that Ritchie Blackmore of Deep Purple clearly ripped off the other two songs?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekGNq4OQD2Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVrgj3A0_BY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhETG7n7Fpo

Wow, interesting. I never heard either of those, but I like both. I now have a mix of Gilberto playing on Alexa...so thank you for that hahah.

I do think there is a difference between being influenced/paying homage, and just flat out ripping someone off. Also the style of music makes a difference, too. The songs you shared are far from Deep Purple, but the influence is definitely there. After so many years of recorded music, it's kind of impossible to be completely original and not show some form of influence.

Even Led Zeppelin were accused of 'borrowing' from the song Taurus by Spirit for Stairway to Heaven.

If anything, I am more offended by an artist or group who borrows too much from their own catalogue.

Zeppelin did worse than the Spirit. There are some Blues songs that Zeppilin completely ripped off...undeniably.

I have been listening to a lot Kinks lately...There is an instance where the Doors ripped off from the Kinks. The Kinks were going to sue them...not to get money but to force the Doors to admit it. Then Jim Morrison came out and said, yeah, they copied it. So, Ray Davies dropped the idea of suing them. And, the Kinks were always stealing from themselves, too...kinda funny.

Hillarious:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSPQFD4FzZQ

Same riff here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LH-sk3V6Hk

And there's a lick at the end of David Coverdale's River Song that completely rips off the melody of the Doors' Waiting for The Sun.

JohnH wrote:And there's a lick at the end of David Coverdale's River Song that completely rips off the melody of the Doors' Waiting for The Sun.

Since I know that you're a Blackmore fan, I was wondering what your opinion is on that section of Escape and whether you think that Schon was intentionally trying to rip off Blackmore's Smoke On The Water riff?

Also, did you listen to the opening riffs of the songs by Calos Lyra and Astrud Gilberto that I posted links for?

Here they are again....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xokONwQUa6M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVrgj3A0_BY


Thanks!

Alright, I was waiting for another response before posting this, but I'll just tell why I posted this question in the first place.

My brother's favorite band is Deep Purple. My favorite band is a tie between Journey and Survivor.

My brother and I argue about music a lot, especially when it comes to the 3 bands that I mentioned above.

My brother has tried to claim that Ritchie Blackmore's opening guitar riff in Smoke On the Water is NOT ripping off the Carlos Lyra or Astrud Gilberto songs. He said that Blackmore probably never heard either of those songs and that the obvious similarities of the SOTW riff and the Lyra and Gilberto riff are probably coincidence.

However, he then followed that up at one point by saying that what Schon plays in that part of Escape was ripping off Blackmore's SOTW riff.

I'm not trying to steer anyone's answers in any direction! I only want people to give their honest and unbiased opinions!

But I just wanted to see what any of you have to say after listening to the Lyra and Gilberto riffs and comparing them with the riff that Blackmore recorded several years later in SOTW.

Journey/Survivor wrote:Alright, I was waiting for another response before posting this, but I'll just tell why I posted this question in the first place.

My brother's favorite band is Deep Purple. My favorite band is a tie between Journey and Survivor.

My brother and I argue about music a lot, especially when it comes to the 3 bands that I mentioned above.

My brother has tried to claim that Ritchie Blackmore's opening guitar riff in Smoke On the Water is NOT ripping off the Carlos Lyra or Astrud Gilberto songs. He said that Blackmore probably never heard either of those songs and that the obvious similarities of the SOTW riff and the Lyra and Gilberto riff are probably coincidence.

However, he then followed that up at one point by saying that what Schon plays in that part of Escape was ripping off Blackmore's SOTW riff.

I'm not trying to steer anyone's answers in any direction! I only want people to give their honest and unbiased opinions!

But I just wanted to see what any of you have to say after listening to the Lyra and Gilberto riffs and comparing them with the riff that Blackmore recorded several years later in SOTW.

Well, I agree with both of you.

I doubt Blackmore heard those songs prior to "Smoke On the Water", so he didn't "copy" them, IMO.

In "Escape", Neal is simply foreshadowing the melody that Perry sings in the lyrics that follow it. I doubt he had "Smoke On the Water" on his mind at all...just part of the writing process.

Another classic song that I haven't heard in ages that starts to channel those chords...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXQJpyQBShU