Cain vs. Schon (again)

[The_Noble_Cause]

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/esg/journ ... d-out-amex

https://www.bloomberglaw.com/public/des ... 3AOT57QSVH

According to Cain's suit, Neal appointed his buddy as a security liaison (whatever that means) even though he has no security experience.

The band is on its 7th business manager due to the chaos.

Neal demands a 1.5 million advance from AEG without explanation.

Well worth reading.

[Loneman1]

Oh cool........so the band's 3,537th honeymoon period of peaceful kumbaya is over again.

[kmjrr]

I wish both Cain and Arnel would just quit. It must be exhausting. I'm guessing Neal would be fine with Cain leaving, but it'll cost him. Then he can run Journey into the ground on his own with noone to blame but himself. When the money stream is gone, Michaele will leave him.

[youkeepmewaiting]

Yep didnt last long

Schon must be an actual nightmare

[Onestepper]

They were stupid to ever just make themselves the two sole Directors, knowing full well that they can't see eye to eye on this stuff. At minimum, Cain should have known better given how NS spends. And who's shocked that Michaele is in the middle of all of this?

If you read the complaint it goes into detail about how the band isn't paying their bills, and at one point didn't pay the crew on time because there wasn't enough money in the bank account. That's the quickest way for this all to come tumbling down. So all of those "we're best friends again" Instagram and Facebook posts were just BS.

If I'm Arnel, I finish the tour and get as far away from this train wreck as possible. Hopefully he saved his money.

[Andrew]

That’s pretty horrific reading.

[ebake02]

I knew the peace and harmony was too good to be true, this is beyond embarrassing at the point. Neal maxing out a $1 million credit line is just mind boggling.

[TageRyche]

There should be an independent party in charge of all the band's finances with Schon and Cain having no say whatsoever. And Schon's "wife" is exiled from anything with the band other than if she wants to buy a ticket to see them in concert.

[danielb]

It seems like a divorce between Neal and Lady M is the only way out of this soap opera.

[ebake02]

It seems like a divorce between Neal and Lady M is the only way out of this soap opera.

You could say same about Cain and his grifting prosperity gospel wife too.

[RumTumJM]

All I keep saying to myself is, “Man, I wish Herbie was still around to weigh in on THIS!”

Speaking of Herbie, where can I currently find the full transcript of the Castles Burning interview?

[The_Noble_Cause]

You could say same about Cain and his grifting prosperity gospel wife too.

Paula already amassed an empire off of the gullible. She doesn't need Journey's money. Can't say the same for Salahi.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Speaking of Herbie, where can I currently find the full transcript of the Castles Burning interview?

Enjoy!


https://web.archive.org/web/20020601082 ... t/mrcarty/

[RumTumJM]

Speaking of Herbie, where can I currently find the full transcript of the Castles Burning interview?

Enjoy!


https://web.archive.org/web/20020601082 ... t/mrcarty/

Oh! That IS the whole thing? - I found it online, but didn't think it was all of the interview.

Thanks for the link & for clarifying things.

[RumTumJM]

Speaking of Herbie, where can I currently find the full transcript of the Castles Burning interview?

Enjoy!


https://web.archive.org/web/20020601082 ... t/mrcarty/

Oh! That IS the whole thing? - I found it online, but didn't think it was all of the interview.

Thanks for the link & for clarifying things.

P.S. - Didn't Herbie recall, somewhere, a story where Cain got all upset/offended after Perry screwed him over in some way. And, then Herbie told him something like "Congrats! You've officailly met a bigger asshole than you are! - How does it feel?"

[The_Noble_Cause]

P.S. - Didn't Herbie recall, somewhere, a story where Cain got all upset/offended after Perry screwed him over in some way. And, then Herbie told him something like "Congrats! You've officailly met a bigger asshole than you are! - How does it feel?"

Yes, it is in the Castles Burning Interview. I have copied and pasted it below.


HH:He had finally agreed, and we go through all of the machinations. (I've) got the band at their rehearsal facility in east Oakland, and I'm picking up Jon at the Oakland airport. I had my 928 Porsche at the time, my 1980 928, and I popped the hatch in the back, and I put his keyboard in. The doors aren't even closed - I haven't closed my driver door, he hasn't closed the passenger door - he hands me a tape, and says 'this is a tape of my wife, Tané. Now, here's the deal - you manage her, you get her a label deal, you make her career happen, or take my keyboard out of the back, I'm out, I'm going right back to LA, no Journey.'

M: Oh man.

HH: I go, 'Hey we had an agreement, and you had committed to me. And you're touching upon the single biggest problem I have with all people who pick up an instrument and decide that they're entertainers and performers and players. It's at the expense of any sense of commitment. And you were committed on other terms and conditions, and you want to change the deal right now. And that is jive.' And he said, 'Well, than call me jive. Do I get out of the car, or do I stay in?' And, so I said, 'Well, I will get her a label deal. I'm sure it won't be because she deserves it.' And he said, 'Let's listen to the tape.' and I said, 'No, let's not. Just shut the door.' And so, I gotta tell you, in no uncertain terms, I knew what Jon Cain was like day one. Day fucking one.

Anyway, Jon Cain's come-uppance came very quick. We go, we write that Escape record. We record the thing (and) it's magnificent. I sequence it, entitle it, and package it, as I always would. We're ready to hit a home run. We had this big party at Fantasy records in Berkeley, with all the press, media and radio there to hear this new masterpiece. Something goes wrong, and Perry's in there with Jon Cain, and somebody suggests 'Wow, this is so great, Jon Cain sure did bring a lot as a songwriter!' And he did! You said it yourself. You know, I agree. Whether I like these people as individuals doesn't have anything to do with my total respect for Perry's talent, for Jon's talent, for all of their talents. But, boy - Perry bristled so much at the notion that Jon Cain had contributed much of anything to that, that he just proceeded to dismiss and diminish Jon Cain's contributions and involvement to the point where Jon Cain had to leave the room and was out in the parking lot, I mean bawling like a fucking baby. Bawling like a baby. So I went out in the parking lot, and I said, 'Now you see what happens when you run into even a bigger asshole than yourself? This is what it feels like. Now if you think that you can go tit for tat with that prick, and be as much more a bigger prick than he is, I got news for you. You have met your fucking match. You know why? Cause everybody sees you coming, Jon Cain. You advertise what a prick you're going to be. Perry - he's got the bulk of the world fooled. And he had you fooled until tonight.' That was it. That was the beginning of the realization for Jon Cain. I betcha right then and there he said 'I wonder a little bit less why Gregg Rolie walked away from such and incredible enterprise, at such an incredible point in their history.' It was just a no-brainer. Stadium act. How do you walk away? I'll tell you how you walk away. If you were drowning in the ocean, and Steve Perry came along in his luxury liner, he would offer you a life raft in such a manner that you would decline it. I'm not just talking about you; I'm talking about anybody. The terms and conditions would be such that you would pass.

[RumTumJM]

P.S. - Didn't Herbie recall, somewhere, a story where Cain got all upset/offended after Perry screwed him over in some way. And, then Herbie told him something like "Congrats! You've officailly met a bigger asshole than you are! - How does it feel?"

Yes, it is in the Castles Burning Interview. I have copied and pasted it below.


HH:He had finally agreed, and we go through all of the machinations. (I've) got the band at their rehearsal facility in east Oakland, and I'm picking up Jon at the Oakland airport. I had my 928 Porsche at the time, my 1980 928, and I popped the hatch in the back, and I put his keyboard in. The doors aren't even closed - I haven't closed my driver door, he hasn't closed the passenger door - he hands me a tape, and says 'this is a tape of my wife, Tané. Now, here's the deal - you manage her, you get her a label deal, you make her career happen, or take my keyboard out of the back, I'm out, I'm going right back to LA, no Journey.'

M: Oh man.

HH: I go, 'Hey we had an agreement, and you had committed to me. And you're touching upon the single biggest problem I have with all people who pick up an instrument and decide that they're entertainers and performers and players. It's at the expense of any sense of commitment. And you were committed on other terms and conditions, and you want to change the deal right now. And that is jive.' And he said, 'Well, than call me jive. Do I get out of the car, or do I stay in?' And, so I said, 'Well, I will get her a label deal. I'm sure it won't be because she deserves it.' And he said, 'Let's listen to the tape.' and I said, 'No, let's not. Just shut the door.' And so, I gotta tell you, in no uncertain terms, I knew what Jon Cain was like day one. Day fucking one.

Anyway, Jon Cain's come-uppance came very quick. We go, we write that Escape record. We record the thing (and) it's magnificent. I sequence it, entitle it, and package it, as I always would. We're ready to hit a home run. We had this big party at Fantasy records in Berkeley, with all the press, media and radio there to hear this new masterpiece. Something goes wrong, and Perry's in there with Jon Cain, and somebody suggests 'Wow, this is so great, Jon Cain sure did bring a lot as a songwriter!' And he did! You said it yourself. You know, I agree. Whether I like these people as individuals doesn't have anything to do with my total respect for Perry's talent, for Jon's talent, for all of their talents. But, boy - Perry bristled so much at the notion that Jon Cain had contributed much of anything to that, that he just proceeded to dismiss and diminish Jon Cain's contributions and involvement to the point where Jon Cain had to leave the room and was out in the parking lot, I mean bawling like a fucking baby. Bawling like a baby. So I went out in the parking lot, and I said, 'Now you see what happens when you run into even a bigger asshole than yourself? This is what it feels like. Now if you think that you can go tit for tat with that prick, and be as much more a bigger prick than he is, I got news for you. You have met your fucking match. You know why? Cause everybody sees you coming, Jon Cain. You advertise what a prick you're going to be. Perry - he's got the bulk of the world fooled. And he had you fooled until tonight.' That was it. That was the beginning of the realization for Jon Cain. I betcha right then and there he said 'I wonder a little bit less why Gregg Rolie walked away from such and incredible enterprise, at such an incredible point in their history.' It was just a no-brainer. Stadium act. How do you walk away? I'll tell you how you walk away. If you were drowning in the ocean, and Steve Perry came along in his luxury liner, he would offer you a life raft in such a manner that you would decline it. I'm not just talking about you; I'm talking about anybody. The terms and conditions would be such that you would pass.

You're the man, Noble Cause! Thanks for all of the info/effort.

In the end, what's currently going on with Jon & Neal really proves that they STILL need a Herbie-like guy running the show. - They have NO BUSINESS handling Journey's BUSINESS!

[jrnyman28]

So in line 14 Jon is referred to as an original member of the band.

With the structure of this corporation I can’t understand how Jon didn’t see this happening. Two entities with equal say cannot succeed.

[Monker]

You're the man, Noble Cause! Thanks for all of the info/effort.

In the end, what's currently going on with Jon & Neal really proves that they STILL need a Herbie-like guy running the show. - They have NO BUSINESS handling Journey's BUSINESS!

In one of his final interviews Herbie critiqued Journey for all of the public infighting and blamed it on Neal. Herbie said that he believed the problem with Journey is Neal Schon. He also said that all the public fighting was damaging the Mothership and with a band like Journey, you don't fuck with the Mothership. When Neal found out about that, he said he talked with Herbie and that it was all just a misunderstanding.....Herbie never commented on it though.

I doubt very much Herbie would be much help to Journey. After ROR and how the band handled Rolie/Chalfant vs Perry reunion and his firing, I don't think he felt much loyalty at all to the band itself. They all screwed him around too many times for him to be involved ever again. That angst is probably part of the reason he let it all out on Castel's Burnin'...he felt no need to play nice any longer. At this point in time, I don't think Neal would really listen to any management anyway.

[Gideon]

Yeahhhh I tried not to read too much into it but when I saw them in Nashville, Neal and Jon never acknowledged each other, nor have they at any other point of the tour.

[The_Noble_Cause]

In one of his final interviews Herbie critiqued Journey for all of the public infighting and blamed it on Neal. Herbie said that he believed the problem with Journey is Neal Schon. He also said that all the public fighting was damaging the Mothership and with a band like Journey, you don't fuck with the Mothership. When Neal found out about that, he said he talked with Herbie and that it was all just a misunderstanding.....Herbie never commented on it though.

Here's the article in case anyone is interested. This quote is telling:

But Herbert says he’s welcomed Cain’s newfound evangelicalism with open arms. Herbert had issues with Cain from the moment he brought him into the group, and yet the “borderline atheist” says finding God has made the keyboardist “a better Jon Cain.”

“I’d love to be able to say the same for Neal and what he’s doing with his life,” Herbert says.

https://www.kqed.org/arts/13805711/as-j ... s-as-usual

[kmjrr]

I don't see how Schon wins this. It'll be financial records in black and white versus him. My guess is his choice is to either spends beyond his and the band's means or Lady M leaves him.
I'm sure he hates the fact that Cain has a 50% share of "his" band instead of 49%. I'm surprised that Cain hasn't sold his share to Neal and retired. It must be exhausting on the road.
But he probably wants to somehow protect the legacy of the band. Neal talks about how much better it is now that he is managing the band, but the evidence speaks for itself. Along with that, he is a paranoid guy. This will be interesting.

[danielb]

Neal travelled on a bus with Soul Sirkus playing clubs 20 years ago. What happened to him? Lady M?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Neal travelled on a bus with Soul Sirkus playing clubs 20 years ago. What happened to him? Lady M?

There's early Augeri-era vids where Neal and Ross comically bow to each other as founding members, as a sign of mutual respect.

Flash forward to 2024.....Neal now nastily emails reporters if they forget to list him as the founder.

As the band's stature grew under Sopranos/Glee/Arnel, Neal's messianic complex grew to Marshall Applewhite levels of self-delusion.

[brywool]

Man, I feel sorry for the guys that just wanna work while they can still do it. I can't imagine being this successful and risking it all for... whatever. It almost sounds like some kind of addiction or something, maybe just to limitless spending. Imagine walking on stage night after night and having to smile (well, probably not Jon, cuz it seems to hurt him) and look united and happy, but meanwhile seething and hating each other. That'd be so hard to do. Maybe these tours are just too long for them and they need more frequent time away from each other. Styx doesn't seem to have this issue and tours pretty much non-stop... though that approach did cost them a founding member, but still, they seem to have made this all work.
Singing those Journey notes but having that kind of stress do not go well together.
Hope they work it out. Get Louis Litt in there to handle these guys.

[efrasjourney]

Get Louis Litt in there to handle these guys.

I just spit my coffee onto the screen... LOL

[Eric]

I really hoped that this was over. Sigh.

That kinda spending does seem like an addiction. Just like booze/drugs/different women every night….

It would make more sense to me if this was about wanting to make more money to pay debts. But needing $10k/night hotels?

[Monker]

I really hoped that this was over. Sigh.

That kinda spending does seem like an addiction. Just like booze/drugs/different women every night….

It would make more sense to me if this was about wanting to make more money to pay debts. But needing $10k/night hotels?

No accusation intended...but I would not COMPLETELY discount drugs. Neal could be using other expenses as a way to hide drug addiction. I doubt he is, but it is still possible.

[Onestepper]

I really hoped that this was over. Sigh.

That kinda spending does seem like an addiction. Just like booze/drugs/different women every night….

It would make more sense to me if this was about wanting to make more money to pay debts. But needing $10k/night hotels?

I'd lay some serious odds that it's Michaele that is driving a good part of the spending. Or at least the mindset that they need to be first class everything.

[AR]

UK Tour Cancelled

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/journey-cancels-fall-2024-u-k-tour/