While I was away....

[annie89509]

came back in here to find people writing dissertations...and Andrew locking the thread before I had a chance to defend myself. First of all, I know this is just a messageboard, shouldn't take things seriously. We are used to reading harsh words directed at and between posters all the time, but…call me sensitive, personal attack/ridicule toward a woman is in bad form. You wouldn’t do it on the street (or would you?)…so why is it acceptable to do it here?

I’ve been called a delusional loon, Perry fawner, dismissive of Journey w/o SP…blab blab…(really, just from the 2 usual suspects, SJ & Gid)…it upsets me because of the outlandish depiction. Not unlike many other Journey fan, it was SP’s vocals that brought me onto the Journey bandwagon and, like any fan turned hardcore, their music and soap opera history have kept us riveted on the band year after year. We have everything they ever recorded…pre-, during, post-Perry. Do I like anything of theirs without SP’s voice on it? Of course, and I have name those songs I like on various occasions when topic presented itself. No secret, though, my favorite J records are the ones with SP singing on it.

Despite what the 2 BashBros. might believe or choose to imply in picking posts of mine apart, I don’t consider myself a PerryOnly, simply because I don’t like all his solo stuff, which also been discussed in the past. The topic of this thread was about AP being called a copycat. I simply opined that people are identifying the songs that Arnel is singing in concert with the singer(SP) who originated the songs. Does anyone remember a long ago interview article with Kevin Chalfant, at the height of SA’s tenure, in which KC said he loved the Journey guys, but it is strange seeing SA up there singing the songs made famous by SP? Yes, KC did say something like that. Anyone, please corroborate.

Like everyone here, I believe the Journey magic was in the Perry-Schon-Cain trio, and the band as a whole produced these memorable songs that are itched in the public consciousness. Doesn’t matter that it’s a different age, or the new songs are just as good as the old, simple fact is GeneralMusicPublic know only the DD. Nobody is saying it was a one-man show, but Perryfans get hammered time and time again as if the Detractors needed a reason to put us in our place.

Some have chosen to throw their full support onto the current lineup, some are “stuck in the past.” I may be in the latter group…doesn’t mean I accept being mischaracterized.
And, that’s my dissertation…

[Gideon]

I'm a feminist. I treat a woman no different than a man and we're all equals in my book!

With regards to the bulk of your post, that was a very candid and enlightening read. I've never seen you clarify the nature of your Journey fandom and yeah, it always seemed to me that you were "a PerryOnly." But now that you've assured me you're not, I apologize for my words and I'll keep that in mind in the future.

[annie89509]

I'm a feminist. I treat a woman no different than a man and we're all equals in my book!

With regards to the bulk of your post, that was a very candid and enlightening read. I've never seen you clarify the nature of your Journey fandom and yeah, it always seemed to me that you were "a PerryOnly." But now that you've assured me you're not, I apologize for my words and I'll keep that in mind in the future.

Gid, I'm "old-fashioned," we women are sensitive and our feelings get easily hurt. Like I tell my boys, be respectful toward a woman if you know what's good for you... So apology accepted.

Before you came onboard, I had an early run-in with SJ, and he apologized for his sharp words. After that, we have had a fairly good internet relationship. But, the last few months, it's gone south again....

[steveo777]

Annie in the west corner and Gideon on the east. Ladies and gentlemen....get ready to rumble and welcome to round 2. How many rounds....how many rounds?

Good post Annie.

[Gideon]

Gid, I'm "old-fashioned," we women are sensitive and our feelings get easily hurt. Like I tell my boys, be respectful toward a woman if you know what's good for you... So apology accepted.

Before you came onboard, I had an early run-in with SJ, and he apologized for his sharp words. After that, we have had a fairly good internet relationship. But, the last few months, it's gone south again....

I can't exactly speak for Dan, but if he's anything like me, then he doesn't mean his words to be taken personally. I can honestly say that there isn't a single soul on MelodicRock that I've interacted with whom I don't like. I approach this message board with a certain sense of escapism; even though I've mellowed (compared with how I used to behave), I still like to sharpen my wits and hone skills that middle and high school and college have instilled in me. Ironically, the internet provides more opportunities than the outside world for debate and discussion.

All of this is to say that I'm fairly certain he doesn't dislike you.

[portland]

I'm a feminist. I treat a woman no different than a man and we're all equals in my book!

With regards to the bulk of your post, that was a very candid and enlightening read. I've never seen you clarify the nature of your Journey fandom and yeah, it always seemed to me that you were "a PerryOnly." But now that you've assured me you're not, I apologize for my words and I'll keep that in mind in the future.

Gid, I'm "old-fashioned," we women are sensitive and our feelings get easily hurt. Like I tell my boys, be respectful toward a woman if you know what's good for you... So apology accepted.

Before you came onboard, I had an early run-in with SJ, and he apologized for his sharp words. After that, we have had a fairly good internet relationship. But, the last few months, it's gone south again....

I am not sure why this happens...

It seems that sometime people forget that there are people behind the keyboards who have feelings, I know it's a message board and that we should not care what people say
but I have had my feelings hurt on more than one occassion.

I have even been told I am not a "real" person....that I have made up this "person", which I find to be comical as I have friends here who are friends with me on Facebook and have talked to them many times...shared photos of my family and life's travels.

I guess it makes some feel better to give people a hard time and call them loons, or delusional (and whatever else they can come up with). I come here because I have met some really great people who love the music that I do.

I have learned that with certain posters here it's just better to walk away...you are not going to change their point of view and it's theirs to have.

What I don't understand is people feel the need to be outright nasty....IMO it's not necessary.

Anyway Annie, I always read your posts and I think you are more than fair.

[annie89509]

Annie in the west corner and Gideon on the east. Ladies and gentlemen....get ready to rumble and welcome to round 2. How many rounds....how many rounds?

Good post Annie.

so7, I didn't include you in my tirade because you've always been harmless...

[slucero]

wierd that the thread got locked... it was way out of gas already...

[annie89509]

Portie, I read your posts, too. There have been times when you have been targeted, and I always cringed when I read some of the nasty stuff. Like I said...toward women in general...I didn't just include myself in this. I know, people say..."if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." For what it's worth, we have an equal right to speak out against something that's been directed toward us. They can choose to accept what you're saying or ignore it. Usually, the guys will show remorse and feel bad about it. But you have to tell them they've gone too far...that it's no longer "all in fun."

[annie89509]

Gid, I'm "old-fashioned," we women are sensitive and our feelings get easily hurt. Like I tell my boys, be respectful toward a woman if you know what's good for you... So apology accepted.

Before you came onboard, I had an early run-in with SJ, and he apologized for his sharp words. After that, we have had a fairly good internet relationship. But, the last few months, it's gone south again....

I can't exactly speak for Dan, but if he's anything like me, then he doesn't mean his words to be taken personally. I can honestly say that there isn't a single soul on MelodicRock that I've interacted with whom I don't like. I approach this message board with a certain sense of escapism; even though I've mellowed (compared with how I used to behave), I still like to sharpen my wits and hone skills that middle and high school and college have instilled in me. Ironically, the internet provides more opportunities than the outside world for debate and discussion.

All of this is to say that I'm fairly certain he doesn't dislike you.

Gid....he's exactly like you...your internet personnas. Like an Older Brother, you lean on his posts a lot. Don't know if you realize this, but you do!

[steveo777]

Annie in the west corner and Gideon on the east. Ladies and gentlemen....get ready to rumble and welcome to round 2. How many rounds....how many rounds?

Good post Annie.

so7, I didn't include you in my tirade because you've always been harmless...

Thank you for keeping it fun. That's all it is to me. But, hey, disrespecting women is not cool. Other than that, game on.


I'm sure you, Portland and Michigan Girl think I'm an ass sometimes, but I have always shown you all some modicum of respect. At least I think I have. No?

[Babyblue]

Annie in the west corner and Gideon on the east. Ladies and gentlemen....get ready to rumble and welcome to round 2. How many rounds....how many rounds?

Good post Annie.

so7, I didn't include you in my tirade because you've always been harmless...

Thank you for keeping it fun. That's all it is to me. But, hey, disrespecting women is not cool. Other than that, game on.


I'm sure you, Portland and Michigan Girl think I'm an ass sometimes, but I have always shown you all some modicum of respect. At least I think I have. No?

You have with me And i enjoy reading your posts but hey thats just me. Carry on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Michigan Girl]

Annie in the west corner and Gideon on the east. Ladies and gentlemen....get ready to rumble and welcome to round 2. How many rounds....how many rounds?

Good post Annie.

so7, I didn't include you in my tirade because you've always been harmless...

Thank you for keeping it fun. That's all it is to me. But, hey, disrespecting women is not cool. Other than that, game on.


I'm sure you, Portland and Michigan Girl think I'm an ass sometimes, but I have always shown you all some modicum of respect. At least I think I have. No?

correct ...NO.
And that's ok w/me as I'm not sensitive ...and I'm a giver as well as a receiver!!

[onmyjrny]

I haven't been around that long, but I do agree with what has been said on this thread. There is a big difference between arguing your point (which is fine) and starting a personal attack on someone (which is not.) I don't know why the internet seems to give people the right to do the latter.

[Greg]

And that's ok w/me as I'm not sensitive ...and I'm a giver as well as a receiver!!

Oh the things I could say about this! j/k

[Saint John]

Lube up, Annie. You've never been "attacked."

[Deb]

I haven't been around that long, but I do agree with what has been said on this thread. There is a big difference between arguing your point (which is fine) and starting a personal attack on someone (which is not.) I don't know why the internet seems to give people the right to do the latter.

You will usually find that will happen when something in your post has hit a nerve, cuz they get pissed and resort to personal attacks. But hey, it takes all kinds, some people are glass half full and some are glass half empty. I tend to clash bigtime with the latter.

Having met you a few years ago at a JSS show in SF, I knows your good peeps.

[Michigan Girl]

I'm a feminist. I treat a woman no different than a man and we're all equals in my book!

With regards to the bulk of your post, that was a very candid and enlightening read. I've never seen you clarify the nature of your Journey fandom and yeah, it always seemed to me that you were "a PerryOnly." But now that you've assured me you're not, I apologize for my words and I'll keep that in mind in the future.

What if she were, or anyone else for that matter?!? Folks have the right
to be a fan of a particular era of the band, it should not be a problem for anyone.
You don't seem to have a problem with the Augeri Fans.
We've got newbies on here talking about how their favorite incarnation
is this new one, that seems to be acceptable to you.
Virgil has even expressed how pissed he is at Perry for band
business that took place while he was still half egg/half sperm. I can
see being emotional about things such as the holocaust, the civil war and
9/11, even though one did not experience them personally ...but Steve Perry?!?
Why, he is bigger and more powerful than even you suspected ...no wonder
we are still so enthralled!!

[Gideon]

What if she were, or anyone else for that matter?!? Folks have the right
to be a fan of a particular era of the band, it should not be a problem for anyone.
You don't seem to have a problem with the Augeri Fans.
We've got newbies on here talking about how their favorite incarnation
is this new one, that seems to be acceptable to you.
Virgil has even expressed how pissed he is at Perry for band
business that took place while he was still half egg/half sperm. I can
see being emotional about things such as the holocaust, the civil war and
9/11, even though one did not experience them personally ...but Steve Perry?!?
Why, he is bigger and more powerful than even you suspected ...no wonder
we are still so enthralled!!

I have absolutely no problem with people being a fan of the Perry-era only or preferring the Perry era. I have a problem with people being a PerryOnly fan in as much as they credit Perry and Perry alone with Journey's success.

For example, I respect the hell out of Ross Muir, author of the superbly written "One In A Million" article on Perry's voice as well as the Journey-centric biography/memoir "A Personal Journey." But he has flat out said that his time as a fan ended with Trial By Fire. Yet he's also been very frank about the fact that Perry was not the only factor in Journey's success and has also gone on record saying that he'd feel the same way if a Perry-led Journey moved on without Neal Schon.

If you define Journey as the chemistry and interaction between Steve Perry, Neal Schon, Jonathan Cain, and Greg Rolie (to show proper respect to the '70s era), then the loss of Perry would definitely come into play and I respect that absolutely.

[Michigan Girl]

I have absolutely no problem with people being a fan of the Perry-era only or preferring the Perry era. I have a problem with people being a PerryOnly fan in as much as they credit Perry and Perry alone with Journey's success. .

Well sure ...show me one of those ^^^^

[JTRock]

Perry deserves a lot of credit (but not all) for his contributions. His vocal and artistic abilities are one of the reasons that the songs are great. I always go back to this theory: regarding American Idol, and shows as such, singers can cover songs, for example, a singer can sound great covering a Whitney Houston song, but what if they were given a new tune and asked to take it to the "next level". It takes a special talent to be able to do such a thing and that's where the separation is and what makes a good vocalist great.

Again, by no means am I giving Perry all of the credit, but certainly his contributions were important.

[onmyjrny]

It seems though that you can't dislike the new line up or the new album without being called a loon or being called racist. Perry was one of the world's top rock vocalists, IMO. I can give you a laundry list of things he did that I don't respect. But to a lot of people here, his mistakes somehow cancel out all his significant achievements. THAT is what hits a nerve
with me! Stick to the known facts and I think most people can take it.

[Michigan Girl]

And that's ok w/me as I'm not sensitive ...and I'm a giver as well as a receiver!!

Oh the things I could say about this! j/k

[annpea]

It seems though that you can't dislike the new line up or the new album without being called a loon or being called racist. Perry was one of the world's top rock vocalists, IMO. I can give you a laundry list of things he did that I don't respect. But to a lot of people here, his mistakes somehow cancel out all his significant achievements. THAT is what hits a nerve
with me! Stick to the known facts and I think most people can take it.

Steve Perry will always be a great singer to many but above all he is still a human being with both a measure of good and bad just like we all have within us. Sure he's made some mistakes ( who hasn't ) but those mistakes don't come near to overriding the good that he has done with his singing abilities, he has touched hearts, changed minds and maybe even saved a few lives with his God given talent, IMO that in itself is enough to forgive him his debts and respect him for the talented artist that he was, is and always will be.