Anyone Know?

[Kor'n]

The band may have preferred Robert (GR - BTM - "this guys a crooner, we wanted a screamer"), but HH knew better...that SP was a better fit to bring Journey success. Years later, he criticized RF as "being a poodle" and the reason he was let go... (which, btw, Robert rebuked in the 2001 interview). I believe it is always easy for Herbie to denigrate others to prop himself up.

[That is not all that Herbie said. RF brought in his own management and was a pain in the ass to deal with because of al the demands he brought along with it. That does not go along AT ALL with the vision Herbie had for the band being a "Grateful Dead" type of family.

Regardless of how you look at it, the band had their "new vocal direction" before Perry was brought into the band. Using that as the reason Perry was brought in is fiction - it is simply not true. The historical FACTS do not back that up - at all.

The songs and writers on the album "back that up." They needed someone to sell records b/c Herbie and crew were on their way out the door. Spin it "Anyway You Want It' but Perry wrote on 8 of the 11 songs, brought Lights to the band and wrote Patiently w/Neal "finished up the song." He also reworked "Winds" and that "Somethin to Hide" all Perry sound. Don't care if RF was a "pita" if they thought him to be right they would have dealt with it. Perry was the bigger draw especially being recommended by Sony along with the much better voice and greater chance of hitting the radio so they could sell more than 100k records that they were selling with Herbie for four years.

[Kor'n]

:lol: I think Kor'n is on a roll and Monker is just picking at straws to defend his position(s) at this point.

Words fail to convey how shocked I am that you'd side with Kor'n.

Words fail to convey how shocked I am that a great debater, such as
yourself, cannot see that Kor'n is winning this ages old debate and making
it new and interesting to boot.f

[I'm not even going into the 'age old debate'. He is - and I just don't give a crap about it any longer, and haven't for a long time. All of this insulting the current Journey is irrelevant.

All I have been arguing, before Korn even joined in, is that Journey did not hit their writing stride until Jonathan Cain joined. Steve Perry did not do it alone. That is another historical fact. A fact that Korn and his "All success comes from Steve Perry" fantasy can not deal with.

"The MAJOR "success comes from Steve Perry is [simply] true." Kor'n 3/29/12

Journey from 1975-77 sold about 100k for each three albums, but as soon as Steve Perry joined, wrote on album, it went platinum. Steve Perry brought success w/o Cain, but Cain has been unable to do so without Perry. As said, Evolution is better than Escape.

The "current Journey" insult[ed] itself when it had a singer "spend an entire disc delivering note for note." RS 7/2008 That's not musical appreciation, integrity or respect. And then for the singer not to write on the song about his homeland................

[Monker]

Journey from 1975-77 sold about 100k for each three albums, but as soon as Steve Perry joined, wrote on album, it went platinum.

Then from your own argument....

Journey from 1978-1980 sold about 2x platinum albums and could barely squeeze out a top 20 single. Then when Jonathan Cain joined the next two albums went 8 and 6x platinum. Therefore, all superstar success comes from Jonathan Cain.

You can't believe your point without believing the other. It's the EXACT SAME LOGIC. It's a paradox you put yourself in.

Steve Perry brought success w/o Cain

But, he did not do it without Neal, Ross and Herbie. And, Jonathan had success outside of Journey in both the Babys and Bad English.

As said, Evolution is better than Escape.

That's opinion, not fact.

The "current Journey" insult[ed] itself when it had a singer "spend an entire disc delivering note for note." RS 7/2008

Not true in several ways. First, they did not do a 'note for note' in the rerecordings...some of the music was changed, 'modernized', I guess. That statement comes from pure ignorance and really discredits your entire point.

Second, they did not insult themselves. They were being true to themselves because all they care about at this point is money and I'm sure Walmart offered them plenty of that. It's made them very myopic. There was obviously no thought about what they would be doing after Eclipse ran its course.

They truly insulted their fans by delivering a musical direction that THEY did not really want to go...as evidence by Eclipse and all other albums from Arrival on. But, the public ate it up...while the fans started ignoring the band...as evidenced by Eclipse selling less then either Arrival or Generations...and Eclipse is arguably a better album then Generations, and had a LOT more promo.

As I said, and you like to quote, they screwed themselves.

[slucero]