I just asked...

[slucero]

I wonder what your reaction would have been had Neal gone hiking in Hawaii and damaged his hands.... and then pulled a Perry...

Knowing Neal's passion for music, which is both factually and frankly several orders of magnitude greater than Perry's ever was, I doubt he'd be the kind to refuse medical procedures in order to repair the damage. Essentially, he'd get that shit taken care of real quick IMHO.

This is largely a subjective inference on your part... you have no way of actually proving this...

[Saint John]

I wonder what your reaction would have been had Neal gone hiking in Hawaii and damaged his hands.... and then pulled a Perry...

Who fuckin' cares?!?! Apples and oranges, man. Non-injury versus an actual injury is a really fucking dumb argument. You're dismissed.

[slucero]

I wonder what your reaction would have been had Neal gone hiking in Hawaii and damaged his hands.... and then pulled a Perry...

Who fuckin' cares?!?! Apples and oranges, man. Non-injury versus an actual injury is a really fucking dumb argument. You're dismissed.

Ah I see... so for you... if it had been Neal... you'd have given him a pass... thanks for the answer Batman..

[Gideon]

This is largely a subjective inference on your part... you have no way of actually proving this...

Allow me to amend my statement: Odds are that I can gather more evidence suggesting Neal's greater musical passion than you ever could for Perry's.

[slucero]

This is largely a subjective inference on your part... you have no way of actually proving this...

Allow me to amend my statement: Odds are that I can gather more evidence suggesting Neal's greater musical passion than you ever could for Perry's.

That would require you to be able to measure passion... and musical output is not a measure of passion...

[Saint John]

I wonder what your reaction would have been had Neal gone hiking in Hawaii and damaged his hands.... and then pulled a Perry...

Who fuckin' cares?!?! Apples and oranges, man. Non-injury versus an actual injury is a really fucking dumb argument. You're dismissed.

Ah I see... so for you... if it had been Neal... you'd have given him a pass... thanks for the answer Batman..

I believe you're missing the point. I am playing along and assuming Neal did hypothetically get hurt (injury), but I'm also using what happened to Nostrildamus as well (non-injury). Again, apples and oranges. No "injury" kept that canoe-nosed, Portuguese Jew from touring.

[Gideon]

That would require you to be able to measure passion... and musical output is not a measure of passion...

That's as silly as reasoning can possibly get.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Schon was financially obligated to continue touring with Journey. You're one of the many who oft cite Eclipse's abysmal album sales. Arrival, Red 13, and Generations performed horrendously as well. The fact of the matter is that, quality work or not, Schon has no obligation or incentive to release new material beyond passion. The same applies for his solo material.

Perry, on the other hand, sits in retirement lamenting the perceived loss of his precious instrument.

Basically, you tell me why Schon puts out solo album after solo album and Journey album after Journey album with zero financial incentive if not for passion.

[steveo777]

Did you dick heads really start an argument in the Perry forum, of all places? Where is that gonna go.......

I'm still waiting......I can't hear you!

[Gideon]

Not an argument, I apologize to Slucero if my above post sounded caustic. Didn't mean for it to come off that way.

[Saint John]

Did you dick heads really start an argument in the Perry forum, of all places? Where is that gonna go.......

I'm still waiting......I can't hear you!

Get the fuck out of here, if you don't like it. Or head over to www.steveosuckscocks24/7.com. Your call, dude.

[Don]

That would require you to be able to measure passion... and musical output is not a measure of passion...

That's as silly as reasoning can possibly get.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Schon was financially obligated to continue touring with Journey. You're one of the many who oft cite Eclipse's abysmal album sales. Arrival, Red 13, and Generations performed horrendously as well. The fact of the matter is that, quality work or not, Schon has no obligation or incentive to release new material beyond passion. The same applies for his solo material.

Perry, on the other hand, sits in retirement lamenting the perceived loss of his precious instrument.

Basically, you tell me why Schon puts out solo album after solo album and Journey album after Journey album with zero financial incentive if not for passion.

I have to agree. Jon and Neal both have dropped a lot of dough into their solo careers mostly with no financial success being obtained. Just making music and playing seems to be reward enough for those two as solo artists.

I do feel it's different with a group effort like Eclipse which I think those guys really thought would be a hit with fans. Flops are okay for your solo efforts but when you put the band's name on it, it has to be only natural for you to want it to succeed, if only for your bandmates to enjoy the spotlight also.

[Saint John]

Note, this has nothing to do with Eclipse which I think those guys really thought would be a hit with fans.

I vehemently disagree. Jon was really obsessed with calling it "Neal's album," and distancing himself from it in virtually every capacity. I think he knew what would sell and tried to get that on the album, but Neal stomped loudest, hardest and most.

[Don]

Note, this has nothing to do with Eclipse which I think those guys really thought would be a hit with fans.

I vehemently disagree. Jon was really obsessed with calling it "Neal's album," and distancing himself from it in virtually every capacity. I think he knew what would sell and tried to get that on the album, but Neal stomped loudest, hardest and most.

I think Shirley was the one who distanced himself the most. I can't see Jon agreeing with Neal to the point of giving up and saying to himself "Okay, I've done what I can, it's not my fault if this tanks."

[Saint John]

Note, this has nothing to do with Eclipse which I think those guys really thought would be a hit with fans.

I vehemently disagree. Jon was really obsessed with calling it "Neal's album," and distancing himself from it in virtually every capacity. I think he knew what would sell and tried to get that on the album, but Neal stomped loudest, hardest and most.

I think Shirley was the one who distanced himself the most. I can't see Jon agreeing with Neal to the point of giving up and saying to himself "Okay, I've done what I can, it's not my fault if this tanks."

But Shirley documented the inner divisions and stomping matches, all but admitting there was friction over creative direction.

[Don]

Note, this has nothing to do with Eclipse which I think those guys really thought would be a hit with fans.

I vehemently disagree. Jon was really obsessed with calling it "Neal's album," and distancing himself from it in virtually every capacity. I think he knew what would sell and tried to get that on the album, but Neal stomped loudest, hardest and most.

I think Shirley was the one who distanced himself the most. I can't see Jon agreeing with Neal to the point of giving up and saying to himself "Okay, I've done what I can, it's not my fault if this tanks."

But Shirley documented the inner divisions and stomping matches, all but admitting there was friction over creative direction.

So, you think Jon is just being the politician in these interviews when he talks about "We" wanted to do something different and all that jazz?

Either way, I hope Neal puts his foot down if Jon tries to re-record Arrival next as payback.

[Saint John]

So, you think Jon is just being the politician in these interviews when he talks about "We" wanted to do something different and all that jazz?

Yes. Regardless, management doomed the album. What a horrid job of putting all of the promotional pieces in place. Just a really poor effort, especially considering you do this once every 3 years ... at the most. Embarrassing, really. And that's a shame, because the album's good.

Either way, I hope Neal puts his foot down if Jon tries to re-record Arrival next as payback.

While it wouldn't be very hard for Arnel to be better, vocally, it's still a bad idea.

[Don]

The Wal-Mart charts have been wacky this week. Eclipse and Mirrorball have been #2 and #3 all week. I could see one album having a resurgence in sales but both? I wonder if the other albums are out of stock or what gives. Either way, with sales down all around last week. I expect to see Eclipse back on the charts even if it's only 3,000 units sold.

[slucero]

Not an argument, I apologize to Slucero if my above post sounded caustic. Didn't mean for it to come off that way.

No worries man.. all in good fun!

Anyhoo... IMHO using the output (of anything) as a measure of passion is like us arguing about how blue the sky is...

Passion is not productivity... passion is one's love for something...

Some artists are so "passionate" about their art they refuse to release anything.. it still does not diminish their "passion" for what they do...

[slucero]

I wonder what your reaction would have been had Neal gone hiking in Hawaii and damaged his hands.... and then pulled a Perry...

Who fuckin' cares?!?! Apples and oranges, man. Non-injury versus an actual injury is a really fucking dumb argument. You're dismissed.

Ah I see... so for you... if it had been Neal... you'd have given him a pass... thanks for the answer Batman..

I believe you're missing the point. I am playing along and assuming Neal did hypothetically get hurt (injury), but I'm also using what happened to Nostrildamus as well (non-injury). Again, apples and oranges. No "injury" kept that canoe-nosed, Portuguese Jew from touring.

And yet Smitty has pretty much confirmed SP was injured.. so go figure... you must have been there I take it?

[Saint John]

I wonder what your reaction would have been had Neal gone hiking in Hawaii and damaged his hands.... and then pulled a Perry...

Who fuckin' cares?!?! Apples and oranges, man. Non-injury versus an actual injury is a really fucking dumb argument. You're dismissed.

Ah I see... so for you... if it had been Neal... you'd have given him a pass... thanks for the answer Batman..

I believe you're missing the point. I am playing along and assuming Neal did hypothetically get hurt (injury), but I'm also using what happened to Nostrildamus as well (non-injury). Again, apples and oranges. No "injury" kept that canoe-nosed, Portuguese Jew from touring.

And yet Smitty has pretty much confirmed SP was injured.. so go figure... you must have been there I take it?

And time has "pretty much confirmed" that he had no ability to sing at any sort of qualitative level, and he's only recently begun to admit as much. So, what's your point? Injured and unable to tour?. You've gotta be fucking kidding me! That's been discredited by 15+ years of his feather dusting bullhorns and his faggy fanboys like that creep Uncle Joe Bendsover making veiled threats that he can sing like he did in the mid 80's and is currently mulling over releasing his "sketched" recordings and "demos." He's gotta be 30 couch trips over what Andrea Yates and Charles Manson have combined ... and he still can't decide if he wants to sing. Fuck it ... get ripped and pretend Bill Graham died again. That was a real fucking vocal treat!

[slucero]

I wonder what your reaction would have been had Neal gone hiking in Hawaii and damaged his hands.... and then pulled a Perry...

Who fuckin' cares?!?! Apples and oranges, man. Non-injury versus an actual injury is a really fucking dumb argument. You're dismissed.

Ah I see... so for you... if it had been Neal... you'd have given him a pass... thanks for the answer Batman..

I believe you're missing the point. I am playing along and assuming Neal did hypothetically get hurt (injury), but I'm also using what happened to Nostrildamus as well (non-injury). Again, apples and oranges. No "injury" kept that canoe-nosed, Portuguese Jew from touring.

And yet Smitty has pretty much confirmed SP was injured.. so go figure... you must have been there I take it?

And time has "pretty much confirmed" that he had no ability to sing at any sort of qualitative level, and he's only recently begun to admit as much. So, what's your point? Injured and unable to tour?. You've gotta be fucking kidding me! That's been discredited by 15+ years of his feather dusting bullhorns and his faggy fanboys like that creep Uncle Joe Bendsover making veiled threats that he can sing like he did in the mid 80's and is currently mulling over releasing his "sketched" recordings and "demos." He's gotta be 30 couch trips over what Andrea Yates and Charles Manson have combined ... and he still can't decide if he wants to sing. Fuck it ... get ripped and pretend Bill Graham died again. That was a real fucking vocal treat!

I never said he could sing... I said Smitty pretty much confirmed he was injured...

What you have just done is called a "strawman argument"... which is is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition, and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.


..and since you so nicely "dismissed" me earlier... I'll just dismiss you now...

[Saint John]

I wonder what your reaction would have been had Neal gone hiking in Hawaii and damaged his hands.... and then pulled a Perry...

Who fuckin' cares?!?! Apples and oranges, man. Non-injury versus an actual injury is a really fucking dumb argument. You're dismissed.

Ah I see... so for you... if it had been Neal... you'd have given him a pass... thanks for the answer Batman..

I believe you're missing the point. I am playing along and assuming Neal did hypothetically get hurt (injury), but I'm also using what happened to Nostrildamus as well (non-injury). Again, apples and oranges. No "injury" kept that canoe-nosed, Portuguese Jew from touring.

And yet Smitty has pretty much confirmed SP was injured.. so go figure... you must have been there I take it?

And time has "pretty much confirmed" that he had no ability to sing at any sort of qualitative level, and he's only recently begun to admit as much. So, what's your point? Injured and unable to tour?. You've gotta be fucking kidding me! That's been discredited by 15+ years of his feather dusting bullhorns and his faggy fanboys like that creep Uncle Joe Bendsover making veiled threats that he can sing like he did in the mid 80's and is currently mulling over releasing his "sketched" recordings and "demos." He's gotta be 30 couch trips over what Andrea Yates and Charles Manson have combined ... and he still can't decide if he wants to sing. Fuck it ... get ripped and pretend Bill Graham died again. That was a real fucking vocal treat!

I never said he could sing... I said Smitty pretty much confirmed he was injured...

What you have just done is called a "strawman argument"... which is is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition, and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.


..and since you so nicely "dismissed" me earlier... I'll just dismiss you now...

Um, the point that he couldn't sing at a qualitative level necessitates the need for a convenient "injury." And there really wasn't one. At least not one hindering him from touring.


PS It's "straw man."

[steveo777]

Did you dick heads really start an argument in the Perry forum, of all places? Where is that gonna go.......

I'm still waiting......I can't hear you!

Get the fuck out of here, if you don't like it. Or head over to www.steveosuckscocks24/7.com. Your call, dude.

Man, I thought the loons had their underwear up their cracks....

What show are you going to this year? I'd like to meet and beat your ass up, just to prove I'm a real person.

[Saint John]

Did you dick heads really start an argument in the Perry forum, of all places? Where is that gonna go.......

I'm still waiting......I can't hear you!

Get the fuck out of here, if you don't like it. Or head over to www.steveosuckscocks24/7.com. Your call, dude.

Man, I thought the loons had their underwear up their cracks....

What show are you going to this year? I'd like to meet and beat your ass up, just to prove I'm a real person.

I'll be in Omaha on Monday night and in Kansas City on September the 28th. And the only way you could "beat my ass up" is with some ether and a borrowed dick.

[steveo777]

Did you dick heads really start an argument in the Perry forum, of all places? Where is that gonna go.......

I'm still waiting......I can't hear you!

Get the fuck out of here, if you don't like it. Or head over to www.steveosuckscocks24/7.com. Your call, dude.

Man, I thought the loons had their underwear up their cracks....

What show are you going to this year? I'd like to meet and beat your ass up, just to prove I'm a real person.

I'll be in Omaha on Monday night and in Kansas City on September the 28th. And the only way you could "beat my ass up" is with some ether and a borrowed dick.

Omaha? I was born in that shit hole. I haven't looked back since age 3, when we moved out west. I went back there for a couple summer vacations
to visit the grandparents, but they are long gone now. The only relatives I have there now are white trash and I haven't spoken to them in years. I
guess Omaha is not a place I would show up on purpose, unless Perry opened for Journey, or some crazy shit like that.

[Don]

Dan is one of the nicest guys you could meet but having met him, Deano, and JSS I can say that SJ dwarfs them as far as build/physique. His ass would not be the one getting beaten, that's for sure.

[Saint John]

Omaha? I was born in that shit hole. I haven't looked back since age 3, when we moved out west. I went back there for a couple summer vacations
to visit the grandparents, but they are long gone now. The only relatives I have there now are white trash and I haven't spoken to them in years. I
guess Omaha is not a place I would show up on purpose, unless Perry opened for Journey, or some crazy shit like that.

Great city. The Old Market is still a sensibly unique place and offers up great pubs and grub. Get up there. I might have an extra ticket. PM me if you can make it. Goodnight.

[steveo777]

Dan is one of the nicest guys you could meet but having met him, Deano, and JSS I can say that SJ dwarfs them as far as build/physique. His ass would not be the one getting beaten, that's for sure.

I'm 6-3 and can palm a basketball. I wear a 14-15 shoe and weigh in at about 275. Wanna play?

[Don]

Dan is one of the nicest guys you could meet but having met him, Deano, and JSS I can say that SJ dwarfs them as far as build/physique. His ass would not be the one getting beaten, that's for sure.

I'm 6-3 and can palm a basketball. I wear a 14-15 shoe and weigh in at about 275. Wanna play?

275? You're just a heart attack waiting to happen, aren't you?

[Saint John]

Dan is one of the nicest guys you could meet but having met him, Deano, and JSS I can say that SJ dwarfs them as far as build/physique. His ass would not be the one getting beaten, that's for sure.

Thanks, Don. I think you know that that sentiment is mutual. Anyone that could up with the shenanigans that one of the members of my crew put us through is all right with me.

I'm 6-3 and can palm a basketball. I wear a 14-15 shoe and weigh in at about 275. Wanna play?

Aren't you also like 60? Regardless, I'm not all that impressed with your size. Though, being the Perry forum, I bet a lot of the women in here now view you as an equal in size.