Anyone Know?

[Gideon]

Bad English's debut album?!? ... I thought that success was largely due to a Diane Warren song.

"Price of Love", co-written by Cain, reached #5 on the charts.
Handing over all the success to Dianne Warren seems a little extreme, but then I guess I don't mind since we can do the same for Journey and JC, since he was the mastermind behind DSB, OA, and Faithfully.

Revelation?!? James Young, of Styx fame, just stated what many folks here have been saying since
it came out ...I'm afraid he may be on to something.

I already acknowledged the beneficial presence of the rerecorded dirty dozen.
It doesn't change the fact that Street Talk's transient success similarly owed to Journey's far greater, enduring success.

Which is the point. We can compare numbers and facts all day and I have three trump cards in the form of Open Arms, Faithfully, and DSB which all originated with JC and make his contributions to the band inarguable.

[Michigan Girl]

DSB originated w/Perry, prior to Cain's arrival in the band!!
OA and Faithfully are melodic ballads so lovingly written by Jon
Cain, great job, Jon!!
I've already stated, after listening to JC sing them ( which
some folks dislike immensely) without SP's instrument, they are
nothing more than blah ballads w/beautiful melodies ...thank you,
Steve Perry.

Remember not to quote me ...thank you!!

Oh ...and you're right about JC's number fiver from BE ..
eek, see how easy it is to forget that...lol, again!!

[Gideon]

No, it originated with JC and the maxim his father used to say to him: "Don't stop believing."
It doesn't matter what value you place on SP's vocals over JC's writing. The fact is that without JC, those songs don't exist in any form. And if it was just an issue of SP's voice, then any song sung by SP should have been a top ten hit. Logic dictates that a song's success owes to more than just the singer.


Edit: Gotta get off here, MG, but I'll check into DSB's origins when I get the time. But I'm pretty sure it started with JC.

[Michigan Girl]

DSB originated in Detroit, 1980, in a hotel room after a show at
the Cobo, overlooking the city at the streetlight people ...Rolie
was still in the band as it was the DEPARTURE tour ...Jon did
contribute the DSB portion of the song for the reason you stated!!
Do your research ... I can't tell you which night, as they
were there 5 nights in a row ...sold out. And then came back
again a few months later, same tour ...sold out two nights in a row.

oops, I see you are/will be, good enough!!

PS~ the information is right here on the pages of this forum, I believe.

Here you go ...
http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/vie ... hp?t=53990

I really want to find the original interview, which included Perry, Cain, I believe Schon and this story ...
after the lp's release, circa '81.

[Gideon]

Sorry for the delay, MG, it's been a busy day.
I checked out your link and I think you and I are on two different pages. I know SP was inspired by Journey's pre-Cain sojourns to Detroit and those found their way into the song, but the concept of the song itself from its inception originated with JC:

Not long before joining Journey, I was struggling in the music business in Los Angeles, without a record deal, and I’d taken a break from music. But my father always believed I would succeed, and would regularly say “Jon, don’t stop believing” on the phone to me from Chicago. So I wrote that down, and started working on it as a chorus. When Journey’s original keyboardist Gregg Rolie left the band, they asked me to join and contribute material to finish up the Escape album. I brought my chorus in, and that’s where it all began.

The original chorus included the chords, melody, and the lyrics “Don’t stop believing, hold on to that feeling.”

Source.

Jon had begun the groundwork on the song before he even joined Journey, then SP and to a lesser extent Neal helped Jon finish the song. The story is corroborated here.

As with Open Arms and Faithfully, it was Jon who brought the idea to the table and it sounds like SP then took the opportunity to include his Detroit-inspired elements.

[Memorex]

Even though this is kind of a lame conversation - I'll join in.

Street Talk - It's simply a very well done, well-written album. I can name more singers that have struck out solo at the height of their band's career than successful ones. And even then, you may get one or two hits (e.g. Dennis De Young). You don't get four, with two of them still being played over 25 years later.

Whether you think Cain is the end all be all or not, you should at least give Perry credit where it's due. I think some of the Escape lyrics are as cheesy as they come and to be honest, it's Perry's voice and Neal's playing that hide it well. The execution on that album is flawless to a fault.

Leonard Cohen these gents are not. But in the rock world, I think each iteration of the writing team did a fine job.

As far as DSB - Of all the things I've read, it had two beginnings that sort of merged into one idea. Perry had his thing going, Jon his and together it created a classic. I imagine that's what happens in most partnership situations on nearly every song.

[Gideon]

Whether or not Street Talk is a quality album doesn't change the fact that Journey's greater, enduring success contributed to SP's success as a solo artist.
FTLOSM still managed to achieve moderate success despite the musical climate, but failed to match the success of TBF 2 years later.
The point being that musical success doesn't happen in a vacuum and at the end of the day, it's not "Oh Sherrie" that gets the media in such an uproar.

As far as credit goes, SP gets plenty around here from everyone. But if you expect me to kiss the man's ass and exalt him as the only reason Journey enjoyed any success, disregarding the contributions of the other band members, you're barking up the wrong tree.

[Michigan Girl]

Even though this is kind of a lame conversation - I'll join in.

Street Talk - It's simply a very well done, well-written album. I can name more singers that have struck out solo at the height of their band's career than successful ones. And even then, you may get one or two hits (e.g. Dennis De Young). You don't get four, with two of them still being played over 25 years later.

Whether you think Cain is the end all be all or not, you should at least give Perry credit where it's due. I think some of the Escape lyrics are as cheesy as they come and to be honest, it's Perry's voice and Neal's playing that hide it well. The execution on that album is flawless to a fault.

Leonard Cohen these gents are not. But in the rock world, I think each iteration of the writing team did a fine job.

As far as DSB - Of all the things I've read, it had two beginnings that sort of merged into one idea. Perry had his thing going, Jon his and together it created a classic. I imagine that's what happens in most partnership situations on nearly every song.

Yes ...good post, Memorex, well stated. I think JC and SP have both expressed, on occasion, the importance
of their creative efforts as a team/partnership/trio to the success of this band ...'tis a fact that can't be denied.

In the end, it's a matter of taste and opinon as to what era/incarnation/works is most appreciated/enjoyed by ea. individual ...
sometimes it has nothing at all to do w/which work was the most succesful.

[Gideon]

I can agree with that.

[Michigan Girl]

S~U~C~C~E~S~S~F~U~L ...successful!!

[Monker]

4) You are wasting keystrokes and bandwidth trying to reason with someone who has nothing better to do than hang out on a Steve Perry forum and bash said person.

Personally, I take offense to this. It's not 1995 on Prodigy, or whatever, when I was doing such things. I don't "hang out" on this forum, and hardly even read it. And, I wasn't really "bashing" Perry, either.

I absolutely do not believe you can take a recording like this and make such an absolute statement that this is 'writing session' for any specific song. That is what I am replying to and what I am 'bashing'...not Perry personally.

5) I wasn't there during this writing session (too bad) so don't know where it was going. Sounds like they were throwing ideas around as happens in most writing sessions.

And, that is exactly what I was saying....so you basically agree with me anyway,.

[Monker]

I did not give my opinion on if I liked Journey's music prior to Escape or not. I am simply stating that Jonathan elevated the songwriting in Journey to a new level. A level that Steve Perry could not attain without him.

From what I've read, the "songwriting" did not seem "elevated" when Cain was in the Babys and Bad English. Straight from the horse's mouth - "greatest success came with Steve Perry." A level that [Jonathan Cain] could not attain without him" and HAS NOT attained "without him."

Street Talk - Multi-platinum / Perry w/NO Cain
FTLOSM - Gold / Perry w/NO Cain
Arrival, Generations, Red13, Revelation (Fluke), Eclipse (Flop) all Flops w/Cain but NO Perry.

Kinda like numbers and facts myself, not theories and opinions.

Up until Escape, Journey had only one top 10 single and a few platinum albums. Escape along equaled all of Journey's previous success COMBINED. Then Frontiers continued that trend. Journey was a moderately successful band prior to Escape but the success we remember them for did not happen until after Jonathan joined the band.

Those are facts and figures that every Journey fan should know....kinda ironic that some people want to conveniently forget them.

When you start talking about Arrival and what came after, you are comparing Journey in their prime to Journey in their declining senior years. That is not even what I was getting at with my comments. The bottom line is the music took off in a way that had not happened with Perry, on three studio albums, a soundtrack, and a live album.

If you can't see that, then you are ignoring reality,.

The rest of your post is just BS propaganda that I just don't care about enough to get into any more.

It is a bit funny how above you want facts and figures but then go on a rampage quoting other people's opinion over points I wasn't even addressing.

[slucero]

You can't discount HH's marketing of the band.. as it had a lot to do with Journey's music getting airplay....

[Kor'n]

Both Bad English's debut album and Revelation enjoy platinum accreditation.

With that Dianne Warren hit song " When I See You Smile." Revelation should not even be mentioned here with those "note for note' recordings of the Greatest Hits. Revelation is one sale, two counts.

"If a band sticks around long enough it turns into a tribute band for years Journey has logged around the oldies circuit with a rotating cast of singers trying to impersonate Steve Perry and now most unlikely, Filipino who spends an entire disc delivering note for note" of their classics like "DSB." Rollingstone 7/2008

Street Talk was released at the height of Journey's success and logically contributed to the album sales not unlike Revelation's inclusion of the dirty dozen.

Eclipse was "released at the height of Journey's" coming from a fluke and fake platinum album and it has sold less than 70k.

Comparing ST to FTLOSM only proves that; it only went gold. And those who scream GRUNGE can look no further than TBF's album sales only 2 years later: it went platinum.

ST was done in 1984 and FTLOSM was done in 1994. It is understood most times that the band more so than not will do better than the solo artist, but SP scored multiplatinum and gold, completely in line with what would be expected from the solo artist. Perry sells 500k with FTLOSM and TBF two years later goes platinum.

As far as 'opinions and theories' go, people can trade quotes and comments from bandmates and reviewers to trump one party over the other. You need look no further than my signature, where SP himself lavishly hands the credit to Escape's success to Jonathan Cain.

Straight from the horse's mouth, indeed.

Is this the 'signature horse' of which you speak?
'Nothing was bigger for Journey than 1981’s “Escape” album. “I have to attribute that to Jonathan coming in and joining the writing team,” Steve Perry (Feb 2012).'

Journey does not possess any successful albums that do not bear the name of Steve Perry, but Steve Perry possesses multi-platinum and gold that do not bear the name of Cain and/or Schon.

"Price of Love", co-written by Cain, reached #5 on the charts.
Handing over all the success to Dianne Warren seems a little extreme, but then I guess I don't mind since we can do the same for Journey and JC, since he was the mastermind behind DSB, OA, and Faithfully.

Not much talk of that "POL" on first album. Unfortunately, none of the platinum success of that first album with "When I See You Smile" rolled over to album #2.
Waite called OA "rubbish." Thankfully with SP it turned into turn it into a hit.
DSB has been called "soul stirring cheese."
Faithfully - Did I read that the record books also show SP's name on it. Maybe he "changed the melody to suit [his] voice" as he said of OA.
Don't think either will be listed as great writers.

[Gideon]

With that Dianne Warren hit song " When I See You Smile."

And "Price of Love."

Revelation should not even be mentioned here with those "note for note' recordings of the Greatest Hits. Revelation is one sale, two counts.

Accreditation doesn't change.

"If a band sticks around long enough it turns into a tribute band for years Journey has logged around the oldies circuit with a rotating cast of singers trying to impersonate Steve Perry and now most unlikely, Filipino who spends an entire disc delivering note for note" of their classics like "DSB." Rollingstone 7/2008

As far as 'opinions and theories' go, people can trade quotes and comments from bandmates and reviewers to trump one party over the other.

Rolling Stone has its lion's share of unpleasant remarks about SP and SP-fronted Journey, so for the sake of time, energy, and sanity, it's probably not best to let this discussion regress into who can quote what to make the other side look bad.

Eclipse was "released at the height of Journey's" coming from a fluke and fake platinum album and it has sold less than 70k.

Journey has never enjoyed the success it did during the early 80s. Comparing Eclipse's release during the brief resurgence afforded by Revelation to Street Talk's release a year after Frontiers is inane. By the way, I just checked and the platinum accreditation remains despite your claims of its illegitimacy.

It is understood most times that the band more so than not will do better than the solo artist,

One wonders why, if SP is the sole source of Journey's success.

but SP scored multiplatinum

Because of Journey's greater, enduring success.

and gold, completely in line with what would be expected from the solo artist. Perry sells 500k with FTLOSM and TBF two years later goes platinum.

And the fact that TBF went platinum just 2 years after FTLOSM went gold hints very strongly that the people were interested in Journey beyond just SP's involvement.

Is this the 'signature horse' of which you speak?
'Nothing was bigger for Journey than 1981’s “Escape” album. “I have to attribute that to Jonathan coming in and joining the writing team,” Steve Perry (Feb 2012).'

Straight from the horse's mouth - "greatest success came with [not because of] Steve Perry."

^ You've made my point for me. As Monker says, you post propaganda where you hand all the credit to SP. We can do the same with JC and the argument goes on and on and on and on. The reality is that both of them forged Journey's success together in addition to Neal. Your indulgence in revisionist history notwithstanding, that fact doesn't change.

Journey does not possess any successful albums that do not bear the name of Steve Perry, but Steve Perry possesses multi-platinum and gold that do not bear the name of Cain and/or Schon.

And as I explained, it is ultimately because of his greater, enduring success with Journey. Or to put it another way, while "City of Hope" isn't tearing up the charts, neither is "Oh Sherrie." The general public cares only for SP's works with Journey (i.e. with JC and NS) and everything else he's done is obsolete in comparison.

Not much talk of that "POL" on first album.

Much like there's not much talk of "Oh Sherrie" or "Foolish Heart" in today's era. Doesn't change the fact that it was successful at the time.

Unfortunately, none of the platinum success of that first album with "When I See You Smile" rolled over to album #2.

Not disputing that. There's a difference between transient success and enduring success; SP and Bad English were examples of the former, Journey at large is an example of the latter.

Waite called OA "rubbish." Thankfully with SP it turned into turn it into a hit.

How fortunate we are then that Jon Cain brilliantly crafted the song for SP to sing.

DSB has been called "soul stirring cheese."

Again we plebes manage to reap the benefits of Jon Cain's brilliance and SP's voice.

Faithfully - Did I read that the record books also show SP's name on it. Maybe he "changed the melody to suit [his] voice" as he said of OA.
Don't think either will be listed as great writers.

Possibly.
As far as their pedigree as writers is concerned, it matters not at the end of the day whether or not they're considered great writers. But the evidence indicates that JC is and has always been the lynchpin to Journey's successful writing.

[Kor'n]

I did not give my opinion on if I liked Journey's music prior to Escape or not. I am simply stating that Jonathan elevated the songwriting in Journey to a new level. A level that Steve Perry could not attain without him.

From what I've read, the "songwriting" did not seem "elevated" when Cain was in the Babys and Bad English. Straight from the horse's mouth - "greatest success came with Steve Perry." A level that [Jonathan Cain] could not attain without him" and HAS NOT attained "without him."

Street Talk - Multi-platinum / Perry w/NO Cain
FTLOSM - Gold / Perry w/NO Cain
Arrival, Generations, Red13, Revelation (Fluke), Eclipse (Flop) all Flops w/Cain but NO Perry.

Kinda like numbers and facts myself, not theories and opinions.

Up until Escape, Journey had only one top 10 single and a few platinum albums. Escape along equaled all of Journey's previous success COMBINED. Then Frontiers continued that trend. Journey was a moderately successful band prior to Escape but the success we remember them for did not happen until after Jonathan joined the band.

And that was enough to keep them in business with Sony with NO more threats of being kicked out for selling 100k or less as they DID BEFORE PERRY CAME ON BOARD. All it takes is one hit single and you'll be "Rolling in the Deep."

Journey was "wandering in the wilderness" before Perry came on board and he "elevated" them from status of selling 100k or less to platinum like they were "elevated" with Escape. Perry "elevated" Journey without Cain, but Cain has not been able to "elevate" Journey w/o Perry.

Those are facts and figures that every Journey fan should know....kinda ironic that some people want to conveniently forget them.

^

Indeed, now tell me something I don't know.

When you start talking about Arrival and what came after, you are comparing Journey in their prime to Journey in their declining senior years. That is not even what I was getting at with my comments. The bottom line is the music took off in a way that had not happened with Perry, on three studio albums, a soundtrack, and a live album.

Trial by Fire "in their declining senior years" went platinum in 96/97.
"The bottom line is the music [also] took off in a way that had not happened with[out] Perry on three studio albums." Seemingly, aside from the Greatest Hits, Captured from 1980 (before Cain) is the only album hitting the BB charts now a days.

If you can't see that, then you are ignoring reality,.

Same to you.

The rest of your post is just BS propaganda that I just don't care about enough to get into any more.

It is a bit funny how above you want facts and figures but then go on a rampage quoting other people's opinion over points I wasn't even addressing.

Not as "funny" as your ignoring and/or chopping off what I say...

Kinda like numbers and facts myself, not theories and opinions. But my opinion is, do not hear the "elevated" writing in Escape and Frontier, but that could be b/c they have not come to be my favorites and not many spins like Evolution or GH2. / Kor'n

Just thought I would include others "opinions" with mine.

And last, but not least......
Name one successful album in Journey's 35+ years canon that does not bear the name of Steve Perry.

[steveo777]

Depends on how you measure the success of 80's bands that are still touring and recording. I consider Journey successful among their peers, at this point in time.

[Rick]

Revelation is one sale, two counts.

As it should be. There are two CD's full of music. Why would they sell two CD's and only get credit for one?

[tater1977]

Ya can't bake chocolate chip cookies without all the ingredients....

[steveo777]

Revelation is one sale, two counts.

As it should be. There are two CD's full of music. Why would they sell two CD's and only get credit for one?

Somebody gets it.

[Kor'n]

With that Dianne Warren hit song " When I See You Smile."

And "Price of Love."

Another "After All These Years." Not much talk about either.

Revelation should not even be mentioned here with those "note for note' recordings of the Greatest Hits. Revelation is one sale, two counts.

Accreditation doesn't change.

Nor does the lack of "accreditation" on that flop Eclipse with no "note for note" recordings.

"If a band sticks around long enough it turns into a tribute band for years Journey has logged around the oldies circuit with a rotating cast of singers trying to impersonate Steve Perry and now most unlikely, Filipino who spends an entire disc delivering note for note" of their classics like "DSB." Rollingstone 7/2008

As far as 'opinions and theories' go, people can trade quotes and comments from bandmates and reviewers to trump one party over the other.

Indeed, as they have often done.

Rolling Stone has its lion's share of unpleasant remarks about SP and SP-fronted Journey, so for the sake of time, energy, and sanity, it's probably not best to let this discussion regress into who can quote what to make the other side look bad.

Sometimes reality sets in when the facts are apparent.

"Nothing bad to say about his bandmates." 1998
"Pure tone and passionate sincerity cannot today be denied." 2008

Eclipse was "released at the height of Journey's" coming from a fluke and fake platinum album and it has sold less than 70k.

Journey has never enjoyed the success it did during the early 80s. Comparing Eclipse's release during the brief resurgence afforded by Revelation to Street Talk's release a year after Frontiers is inane. By the way, I just checked and the platinum accreditation remains despite your claims of its illegitimacy.

According to some on journeymusic.com, they were to become the "biggest comeback in rock n roll history." 2009/10

"Next album, fresh voice could be bigger than Escape." 2010

Just like the multi-"platinum accreditation" of Street Talk "despite your claims of its illegitimacy."

It is understood most times that the band more so than not will do better than the solo artist,

One wonders why, if SP is the sole source of Journey's success.

He was the PRIMARY "SOURCE." Your refusal to acknowledge that allows words to "twist and turn."

but SP scored multiplatinum

Because of Journey's greater, enduring success.

"Because of" the music Journey created with Steve Perry "enduring success." In 2011 "Journey sold 703,000 physical albums," less that 100k credited to pre or post Perry.

and gold, completely in line with what would be expected from the solo artist. Perry sells 500k with FTLOSM and TBF two years later goes platinum.

And the fact that TBF went platinum just 2 years after FTLOSM went gold hints very strongly that the people were interested in Journey beyond just SP's involvement.

"And the fact that" Perry disappeared and came back with gold assures "strongly that people were interested in [Perry] beyond just [Journey's] involvement" and he was capable of scoring "accreditation" w/o them.

Is this the 'signature horse' of which you speak?
'Nothing was bigger for Journey than 1981’s “Escape” album. “I have to attribute that to Jonathan coming in and joining the writing team,” Steve Perry (Feb 2012).'

Straight from the horse's mouth - "greatest success came with [not because of] Steve Perry."

"Like a Harley w/o a key." Cain 1984/86

^ You've made my point for me. As Monker says, you post propaganda where you hand [b]all the credit [/b]to SP. We can do the same with JC and the argument goes on and on and on and on. The reality is that both of them forged Journey's success together in addition to Neal. Your indulgence in revisionist history notwithstanding, that fact doesn't change.

Yes, your "^" is right on or near "key." Thought I would give you "a taste of your own medicine," and "that fact doesn't change."

Journey does not possess any successful albums that do not bear the name of Steve Perry, but Steve Perry possesses multi-platinum and gold that do not bear the name of Cain and/or Schon.

And as I explained, it is ultimately because of his greater, enduring success with Journey. Or to put it another way, while "City of Hope" isn't tearing up the charts, neither is "Oh Sherrie." The general public cares only for SP's works with Journey (i.e. with JC and NS) and everything else he's done is obsolete in comparison.

Everything pre-Perry and post-Perry "with Journey is obsolete in comparison." At least "Oh Sherrie" is still on "the charts' and is/has been featured in movies, etc.

Not much talk of that "POL" on first album.

Much like there's not much talk of "Oh Sherrie" or "Foolish Heart" in today's era. Doesn't change the fact that it was successful at the time.

Do you mean the "Oh Sherrie" that is played daily and featured in movies, etc.? And, of course, LTS that is SP penned also has been featured. And, of course, Lights, AWYWI are featured more so than Cain era songs, except the "DSB."

Unfortunately, none of the platinum success of that first album with "When I See You Smile" rolled over to album #2.

Not disputing that. There's a difference between transient success and enduring success; SP and Bad English were examples of the former, Journey at large is an example of the latter.

"There's is a difference between" retirement and "logging around" w/o artistic integrity.

"Robert Plant knew when to call it quits with LZ." RS 2010

Waite called OA "rubbish." Thankfully with SP it turned into turn it into a hit.

How fortunate we are then that Jon Cain brilliantly crafted the song for SP to sing.

"How fortunate we are then that" Perry was able to "make something out of nothing."

DSB has been called "soul stirring cheese."

Again we plebes manage to reap the benefits of Jon Cain's brilliance and SP's voice.

"Again "Cain's brilliance" seemingly comes with a sticker, SP "approved only."

Faithfully - Did I read that the record books also show SP's name on it. Maybe he "changed the melody to suit [his] voice" as he said of OA.
Don't think either will be listed as great writers.

Possibly.
As far as their pedigree as writers is concerned, it matters not at the end of the day whether or not they're considered great writers. But the evidence indicates that JC is and has always been the lynchpin to Journey's successful writing.

"The evidence indicates that [SP] is and has always been the lynchpin to Journey's successful writing." Unfortunately "no successful writing" w/o Steve Perry kinda send your "evidence" on a down....hill spiral. Cain told Perry what his daddy said "DSB" which saying has been around since the beginning.

[Kor'n]

Revelation is one sale, two counts.

As it should be. There are two CD's full of music. Why would they sell two CD's and only get credit for one?

Somebody gets it.

Exactly, when there is no "platinum throated Perry" (2011) around. Guess you do what you have to do. But, they went to "the well" and the "well is dry" now and the results are flop, Eclipse, no one sale, two counts can counter that.

[Kor'n]

Depends on how you measure the success of 80's bands that are still touring and recording. I consider Journey successful among their peers, at this point in time.

[steveo777]

Depends on how you measure the success of 80's bands that are still touring and recording. I consider Journey successful among their peers, at this point in time.

Fucker.....I got that little subtlety.

[Gideon]

Like I said, we can keep hurling anecdotes and statistics at each other until the stars burn out, but why waste all that time when one has a trump card?

'Nothing was bigger for Journey than 1981’s “Escape” album. “I have to attribute that to Jonathan coming in and joining the writing team,” Steve Perry (Feb 2012).'

I win.

[tater1977]

Like I said, we can keep hurling anecdotes and statistics at each other until the stars burn out, but why waste all that time when one has a trump card?

'Nothing was bigger for Journey than 1981’s “Escape” album. “I have to attribute that to Jonathan coming in and joining the writing team,” Steve Perry (Feb 2012).'

I win.

On missing Steve Perry .. "His intuition. His sensibility. He had a certain panache and style that I clicked with. And there will always be that chemistry that we had. It was the most success that I've ever been associated with." Jon Cain 2011

[Gideon]

I'm aware and that changes nothing for me. I'm not out to prove that Jon Cain was solely responsible for Journey's success, unlike certain others are trying to do for Perry.
The fact is that SP is not the sole reason for Journey's success... not only do the numbers claim it, but so does SP himself.

I win.

[Monker]

Not as "funny" as your ignoring and/or chopping off what I say...

Why shouldn't I? You are blabbing on about stuff I was not talking about, and have no interest in talking about....and ignoring the facts that I *DID* post. You are just trying to start an argument...an argument over topics that I was going on about online 20yrs ago. It just doesn't matter to me any longer.

If you want to live in some fantasy that Steve Perry is Journey's version of Jesus, that's your business.. But, don't expect me to argue with you about it.

[Monker]

Revelation is one sale, two counts.

As it should be. There are two CD's full of music. Why would they sell two CD's and only get credit for one?

and, so was Captured and the box set.

[Monker]

I'm aware and that changes nothing for me. I'm not out to prove that Jon Cain was solely responsible for Journey's success, unlike certain others are trying to do for Perry.
The fact is that SP is not the sole reason for Journey's success... not only do the numbers claim it, but so does SP himself.

I win.

When you use "facts and figures" to try to explain reality to somebody, it's a bit pointless if that person isn't living in reality in the first place.. And, the only winning move it not to play.