Arnel Not a Perry Copycat

[Gideon]

No offense Gid, but dividing up a broad stroke point into sectional separate arguments doesn't mean you won the point of the conversation. It's just your tactic to divert attention off the elements you failed to address.

My "slice 'n dice" of posts enables me to respond to each point; something you failed to do because of supposed time constraints and then criticized me for. That's what we call a double standard and, speaking of tactics, that seems to be the only thing you can use to even attempt to argue with. Well, that and the frequent mention of your precious time. But... isn't it amazing what a little bit of goading on my part can get you to do?

Here's the thing:
You're either just not getting "it" or you're intentionally circumventing "it" ("it" being the source point of this friendly little debate). Because every one of your statements are pointless to the source point of this discussion and that's part of the reason why I didn't bother spending an inordinate amount of time addressing them line by line. As you've demonstrated, it only takes a line or two to make an inaccurate statement or pose an opinion as some kind of fact, but unfortunately, it takes a great deal of time and effort to counter argue and explain why your simple statements are wrong. And unlike you, it's time I just don't have.

Yup, yup, here we have that oft' mentioned time constraint.... which still doesn't stop you from making multi-paragraph responses when properly baited. Like Greg, you seem to have no problem accusing others of being wrong, but when it comes to actually proving it, well there seems to be no greater challenge for you. Try again.

You've been including these bizarre tangent points which circumvent the topic being discussed. I mean advantages? Really? How are the advantages you point to relevant to what Journey became via Perry's substantial contributions? That Journey had a record deal and Perry didn't? Hello? Alien Project had a contract, but I'm not getting drawn into a tangent discussion.

The advantages are relevant because I'm discussing how essential he was to their success and vice versa. Journey came to the table with a greater hand; they had the establishment, they had the record deal, they had experiencing making and selling albums that Perry simply didn't. And as I pointed out to Slucero, Perry's record deal evaporated. Why don't you go ask a mathematician or an economist which is a greater loss: potential (Journey) vs. actual (Perry); Journey was in danger of losing their deal, Perry's was already gone.

That's about as factual as one can get.

The point is:

How is that linearly relevant to a discussion about Journey's success with Perry, when it's historical fact that prior to his joining the band, Journey were doing so poorly, their own record company was about to drop them?

No one denies that they were in danger of losing their deal.
An equally historical fact, though, is that Perry had already lost his contract. Again, potential vs. actual loss and it's rather inane that you're attempting to argue that they were somehow in the same boat, much less that Perry had some sort of advantage. But maybe if you keep repeating it, you can bend the laws of space and time and Perry's definite loss of his record deal will somehow mean less than Journey almost losing theirs. I personally doubt it, but "anything is possible."

Seriously, explain this to me because your logic simply escapes me (I swear these are unintentional puns).

I hope this helps; I applaud your willingness to understand basic logic and make a change for the better (damn those puns).

The point you either didn't get or intentionally circumvented about Chalfant is this:
Of course I knew about The Storm. The reason I brought him up was he was in the music biz, with management, record contracts and all, for almost 10 years BEFORE The Storm. 707 had a one hit wonder in 1982 (that very few people even know or care about today). 10 years during the heyday of AOR and he achieved zilch! Nothing to be ashamed of, it's not an easy thing to achieve, and that's my point.

No, I understood the point well enough and I agree that a gifted singer isn't sufficient (at times) to be a success. Which is why I've been saying singer/songwriter; Perry wasn't the only talented one in the industry at the time. And when Chalfant joined Gregg Rolie and the others under Herbie Herbert's direction, they managed to achieve considerable success given the timeframe and the drastically changing musical landscape.

I only point it out to counter your assertion that Journey would have been plenty successful had some other random albeit talented singer joined instead of Perry. My assertion this whole time is that your assertion is absolutely dismissive nonsense. Chalfant is plenty talented and there are, by your own reasoning, plenty of OTHER talented musicians he could have joined with. Oh wait, that's right, it's not that simple is it? Not so easy to just get out there, make a song, let alone and album, that resonates with the majority of music listeners and becomes a hit. It's not just a voice, then is it? It's the art of crafting a song too. How was Journey doing that before Perry? Oh yeah, they weren't. Yet the first album Journey does with Perry scores, the record company is happy and they just keep on building from there. Gee, what a coincidence. But you're right, anyone could have done that. Just ask Chalfant or Michael Bolton, who struggled for years before anything broke for him, and he had to do a cover song to get that ball rolling. Great talent there, great voice, but it took a cover song of a previous hit to get him a career. Again, Journey blew up right off the bat with Perry's songwriting involvement and vox and that's because Perry was the focal point for the crafting of all their songs during the Rollie era. NOT JUST THE VOICE.

I said that the odds would have been more likely that they would have found success without Perry than Perry would have found without them. I never said that they'd be as successful, they might not have been! Or they might have been more successful, unless you believe Steve Perry is the fulcrum that balances the ever expanding universe and he and he alone was gifted enough to raise Journey from the ocean floor of mediocrity or something else equally obnoxious.

See how much time that took to point out? Just not worth the effort to do that across all your little tangent statements, especially when considering the following:

Yet you did it in spite of your "precious time" (pun intended); who do you think you're fooling? (pun intended; can you guess the song? )

Journey will be remembered by the majority for their musical heyday catalog with Perry. The majority of fans who listen to Journey's music don't care about the post Perry era catalog and that's why Perry and Journey are inseparable. That a handful of people on this board disagree is irrelevant. We are all hard-core fans. We know the ins and outs of every little stupid thing that went on with this band. The discussions on this board aren't indicative of the mind of the casual fan. Journey's legacy is secured in music history as described (Perry-centric). Pineda, Augeri, as talented as they are, will only be thought of as Perry soundalikes hired to replaced Perry. That the details differ is irrelevant. Perception rules the day, and as recent articles have pointed out, casual fans think Arnel sounds like Perry. Even Sammy Hagar pointed out Journey failed with Augeri because he was trying to be Perry (look it up).

I'll never deny that Perry was a major, critical ingredient to the success Journey enjoyed.

Stop grinding your axes already. Stop going around board to board, policing and hounding everyone's posts who's opinion you're trying to change.

You mean........... like you're trying to do with me, right now?

You're changing nothing. You're gaining nothing. In the end, you will be nothing, lol... go outside and get a life already. 'Nuff said!

So in what world is the guy who claims to be uber-busy and struggling with a demanding schedule and yet somehow finds the time to post multiple multi-paragraph arguments after being goaded an ideal choice to lecture others on getting a life? In typical Loon fashion, your words don't match your actions.

(prediction: Gideon will slice and dice this post as he always does. These slices and dices will create more tangents. Others will chime in on these tangents and none of you will see the sun for the better part of a month!).

(Prediction: In spite of your multiple assurances and your incessant claims of an incredibly demanding schedule, you'll come back and make more time for me. And I'll spend that next month laughing my ass off. )

ST out!

You'll be back.

[tater1977]

Nice short interview...


Steve Perry 1980 Interview (Pieces)


http://youtu.be/9sPvUiSZaps

[Greg]

Gideon:

Instead of slicing and dicing, let me put it to you as simplistic as possible. Nobody here is saying Steve Perry is the sole reason why Journey was successful. He was, in large part, what made Journey stand out more noticeably with his unique voice. When you heard his voice on the radio, you knew it was Journey you were listening to. That is what Annie was getting at with her "made famous by their former singer."

As long as they're out there playing the DD (songs sung and made famous by their former lead singer)

You can speculate as to the meaning of Annie's words ad infinitum. But this is what she said; there is no mention of Neal or Jon and no qualifier as Dan pointed out. The straightforward interpretation of the message is that Steve Perry and Steve Perry alone made the songs famous, which is simply false for a number of reasons.

By the way, remember our first spat when you bitched at me for offering my own two cents on what Dan was saying? I believe your words were something to the effect of "We don't need other people coming in and posting what they think Dan said" yadda yadda? I guess it's funny that you believe yourself to be the exception to your own rules, since you're doing the same thing here with Annie.

But, we're not saying he should be given sole credit for making Journey a success. It is the song writing nucleus of Perry, Cain, and Schon. Those three guys together brought out the best in each other, musically - and brought out the best in Journey. Perry did, however, bring success to the band before Cain came into the band. Even Neal Schon said that in the Behind The Music show. So, Perry had a knack of being an artist, not just a singer. He made Journey better, and then Cain made Journey complete in my opinion.

And I'd agree with this.

To state that any other good tenor voice could have came in and done the same thing is not in agreement with what I have been saying and nor what Story_Teller said, Gideon. I noticed in one of your other slice/dice posts quoting me that you said you have agreed with this notion that it was all three who made Journey great, but then going back and saying Journey could have gotten any great tenor voice and have been as successful is a complete contradiction.

I didn't say that they would necessarily be as successful; if I said that, find me the quote and I'll publicly retract it. They might not have done as well; they might have done better. All I know is that Perry was hardly the only singer/songwriter at the time and the idea that he was somehow the only individual in all of creation who could have had chemistry with Neal Schon or helped bring success to Journey is nothing more than fantasy. The same applies for Jon Cain; I don't think he was the only talented songwriter and musician available to the band who could have completed their formula for success.

You, have no reason to have an ax to grind with Perry. Neither does Saint John or anybody else for that matter. I give Perry a lot of credit for what he brought to the band, but I also give a lot of credit to Jon Cain, Neal Schon, and Gregg Rolie. And honestly, at this stage in the game, I really don't give a crap about the internal band issues anymore. I'm thankful for having what Journey has been blessed to have given us musically. Could it has been more? Sure, but it could have been a lot less as well. Stop grinding axes and throwing out the loon card every time someone says anything nice about Steve Perry.

I'm interested in the truth and if one reads my posts one can routinely see me heap out praise and criticisms when they are due and no one is spared. I'm hardly bullying Steve Perry and the idea that I have a problem with people who say anything nice about him is an outright fucking lie, propagated by people whose attachment to this man is nothing short of psychologically disturbing. I've given Perry his due, but as usual, if you criticize Perry, you're an asshole. The great irony here being that the people who are so rabidly defending Perry have zero compunction about criticizing everyone else in Journey. How do you explain that?

1st point: You're splitting hairs just so you can argue against people. This is clearly what you do best. The difference with me jumping in is simply me having enough of you bullying Annie around. I've seen it quite a bit from you, and quite frankly, I got tired of your shit. You're a kid, most of us here are adults. We don't need some kid thinking he is going to set us straight when he doesn't even know what the hell he's talking about to begin with.

2nd point: You make absolutely no sense with your pointless post about the other tenor voices that could or could not have done better than Perry. The facts are, Journey was very successful with Steve Perry. There is no fantasy in that statement. You bringing up the possibilities of other lead singers is pointless. I am only stating what I know happened and is fact. Don't waste my time with your hypothetical fantasies.

3rd point: If you truly are interested in the "truth", then you need to shut up and listen for a change. Nobody here in this thread has indicated any "attachment" to the man other than admiring his work in the music industry. So, stop with your mental diagnosis on people here of whom you don't personally know. And don't assume we think you're an asshole because you simply criticize Steve Perry. Believe me, you've given us plenty of other reasons to think such.

[Gideon]

1st point: You're splitting hairs just so you can argue against people. This is clearly what you do best.

Clearly you have no idea what the term splitting hairs actually means. Saying that Steve Perry made the songs famous and saying that Steve Perry, Neal Schon, and Jonathan Cain made the songs famous are two distinct and separate ideas, which is the antithesis to splitting hairs. But way to get it wrong again, which is what you do best.

The difference with me jumping in is simply me having enough of you bullying Annie around.

Make excuses all you like: You're a complete and utter hypocrite and no amount of lying and backpedaling changes that. Annie's a big girl and she's more than guilty of coming after me and Dan (and we have the posts to prove it). So take your revisionist history and shove it up your lying ass.

I've seen it quite a bit from you, and quite frankly, I got tired of your shit. You're a kid, most of us here are adults.

I'm 20 years old and an adult by the only standard that matters: the law of my country. You, on the other hand, are twice my age with half my IQ. Take your ageist bullshit and make room for it with your revisionist history in your elastic anal cavity, dumbass.

We don't need some kid thinking he is going to set us straight when he doesn't even know what the hell he's talking about to begin with.

Yup, which is why I bother to provide facts and reason for every single thing I post, whereas all you do is bitch and moan like the fragile fuck you are when people disagree with you, liberally making use of tactics you deplore to see others use.

2nd point: You make absolutely no sense with your pointless post about the other tenor voices that could or could not have done better than Perry.

It absolutely does make sense unless you believe Perry and Perry alone was capable of bringing success to Journey. The same applies to Cain. Their talents are hardly unique to the whole of the music industry, despite what some may think.

The facts are, Journey was very successful with Steve Perry. There is no fantasy in that statement.

That's one fact, dumbass, and no one disputes it.

3rd point: If you truly are interested in the "truth", then you need to shut up and listen for a change.

To whom? You? All you deal in is hypocrisy and lies. You are all but reduced to tears the moment you perceive the possibility that someone is being condescending with you and you lash out in your impotent rage. And yet you see fit to insult and lecture others when they don't agree with you, to say nothing of the fact that you constantly lie about my position on Perry and Journey in order to supply the desperately needed lubrication for your Loon masturbation.

Nobody here in this thread has indicated any "attachment" to the man other than admiring his work in the music industry.

If that were so, you and I would be on the same page and you wouldn't need to lie about my perceived refusal to acknowledge Perry's importance with the band (when I actually have acknowledged it on multiple occasions).

So, stop with your mental diagnosis on people here of whom you don't personally know. And don't assume we think you're an asshole because you simply criticize Steve Perry. Believe me, you've given us plenty of other reasons to think such.

Interesting that you take umbridge with my so-called mental diagnosis and yet you see fit to initiate the same with me in the same damn paragraph. As if your hypocrisy was in doubt, Greg.

And before you inevitably begin your next salvo of whining and bitching about the tenor of my words, understand that I was more than happy to keep things civil between us, but what you're really after is someone who will roll over and let you bash them whenever they disagree with you, which is why you started all of our confrontations. You're the most fragile aggressor in the history of the internet and it's obscene; you started it, I have no problem finishing it.

[portland]

Greg.....speaking from experience, let it go.


Totally not worth the time, effort and head spinning.

[slucero]

Greg.....speaking from experience, let it go.


Totally not worth the time, effort and head spinning.

Gid can't help it.. he's full of angst and cum... at 20 one has to be right about everything... its human nature...

[Gideon]

Gid can't help it.. he's full of angst and cum... at 20 one has to be right about everything... its human nature...

I try to be depleted of both as often as I can. But that's another trait of a 20 year old.

[steveo777]

Will you guys just thtop it!!! I said that in the gayest voice I could find.

[slucero]

Gid can't help it.. he's full of angst and cum... at 20 one has to be right about everything... its human nature...

I try to be depleted of both as often as I can. But that's another trait of a 20 year old.

hhahaha..


for what its worth Gid.. I really appreciate your willingness to debate... I'd take a room full of cognitive 20 year olds like yourself, awake & aware... any fucking day of the week over some of the "brain dead" kids I've seen...

I'm twice your age... saw Journey before Perry joined and saw them with Perry in their heyday... both versions were fucking AMAZING and musically multi-dimensional.. very much more than they are today... Aynsley on drums was mesmerizing... then Smitty... just something else... Rolie and Perry singing together was MAGIC. .... those were the days..

I just know you would have loved it.

[Greg]

1st point: You're splitting hairs just so you can argue against people. This is clearly what you do best.

Clearly you have no idea what the term splitting hairs actually means. Saying that Steve Perry made the songs famous and saying that Steve Perry, Neal Schon, and Jonathan Cain made the songs famous are two distinct and separate ideas, which is the antithesis to splitting hairs. But way to get it wrong again, which is what you do best.

The difference with me jumping in is simply me having enough of you bullying Annie around.

Make excuses all you like: You're a complete and utter hypocrite and no amount of lying and backpedaling changes that. Annie's a big girl and she's more than guilty of coming after me and Dan (and we have the posts to prove it). So take your revisionist history and shove it up your lying ass.

I've seen it quite a bit from you, and quite frankly, I got tired of your shit. You're a kid, most of us here are adults.

I'm 20 years old and an adult by the only standard that matters: the law of my country. You, on the other hand, are twice my age with half my IQ. Take your ageist bullshit and make room for it with your revisionist history in your elastic anal cavity, dumbass.

We don't need some kid thinking he is going to set us straight when he doesn't even know what the hell he's talking about to begin with.

Yup, which is why I bother to provide facts and reason for every single thing I post, whereas all you do is bitch and moan like the fragile fuck you are when people disagree with you, liberally making use of tactics you deplore to see others use.

2nd point: You make absolutely no sense with your pointless post about the other tenor voices that could or could not have done better than Perry.

It absolutely does make sense unless you believe Perry and Perry alone was capable of bringing success to Journey. The same applies to Cain. Their talents are hardly unique to the whole of the music industry, despite what some may think.

The facts are, Journey was very successful with Steve Perry. There is no fantasy in that statement.

That's one fact, dumbass, and no one disputes it.

3rd point: If you truly are interested in the "truth", then you need to shut up and listen for a change.

To whom? You? All you deal in is hypocrisy and lies. You are all but reduced to tears the moment you perceive the possibility that someone is being condescending with you and you lash out in your impotent rage. And yet you see fit to insult and lecture others when they don't agree with you, to say nothing of the fact that you constantly lie about my position on Perry and Journey in order to supply the desperately needed lubrication for your Loon masturbation.

Nobody here in this thread has indicated any "attachment" to the man other than admiring his work in the music industry.

If that were so, you and I would be on the same page and you wouldn't need to lie about my perceived refusal to acknowledge Perry's importance with the band (when I actually have acknowledged it on multiple occasions).

So, stop with your mental diagnosis on people here of whom you don't personally know. And don't assume we think you're an asshole because you simply criticize Steve Perry. Believe me, you've given us plenty of other reasons to think such.

Interesting that you take umbridge with my so-called mental diagnosis and yet you see fit to initiate the same with me in the same damn paragraph. As if your hypocrisy was in doubt, Greg.

And before you inevitably begin your next salvo of whining and bitching about the tenor of my words, understand that I was more than happy to keep things civil between us, but what you're really after is someone who will roll over and let you bash them whenever they disagree with you, which is why you started all of our confrontations. You're the most fragile aggressor in the history of the internet and it's obscene; you started it, I have no problem finishing it.

Shut the fuck up Gideon. You're about as boring as watching paint dry and about as useless. Just do us both the favor and don't respond to any of my posts again. And while you're at it, don't send me anymore private messages belly-aching about my bitch-slapping you on the forum. You're a child and until you adjust your attitude on this board, you will always be considered a child. And I refuse to allow myself to debate/speak with someone like you any longer. You're an ungrateful little bitch who has a napoleon attitude and feels threatened every time someone disagrees with you. Someday, I hope you realize how you have presented yourself here, and will make some changes. Until then, fuck off.

[Gideon]

Shut the fuck up Gideon. You're about as boring as watching paint dry and about as useless. Just do us both the favor and don't respond to any of my posts again.

You were the one who came to this thread and started speaking to me, dumbass. But then I suppose I can't expect you to get your facts straight if going back an entire two pages (!) is a little too challenging for someone of your compromised mental state. Ignorance is bliss, eh? You must be the happiest motherfucker in the world.

And while you're at it, don't send me anymore private messages belly-aching about my bitch-slapping you on the forum.

You mean the one in which you responded with how "cool of a dude" I am and you were sorry because you "had a bad day"? Suits me fine. I'm not willing to try to keep the peace between an aging piss ant such as yourself, too deluded to perceive reality for what it is and too stupid to defend his delusions properly. Even amongst Loons, you're both a pariah and a joke.

You're a child

We've been through this, I'm legally an adult, but I guess that doesn't matter to someone who apparently considers himself the arbiter of the universe. Nah, I'm not an adult Greg, but just because you say so! Steve Perry really is the greatest and bestest person that ever lived, Greg, but just because you say so! Are these the words you long to read? I'm glad I can fuel your narcissistic fetish and disturbing sexual obsession with Steve Perry, a feeling so profound that it compels you to demonstrate to all the world how much of a dumbass you really are. I guess I should never underestimate the power of love, eh Greg?

and until you adjust your attitude on this board, you will always be considered a child.

Until I adjust my behavior? Motherfucker, as you pointed out so clearly, I tried to keep the peace between us by tolerating your double standards and your weird Perry fetish multiple times. We can post the PMs if you like and everyone can see with their own two eyes how I tried to keep the peace.

Your ageist bullshit is rooted in the fact that you can't hold your own in any capacity against me and so you desperately seek any ammunition with which to hold me back. And unfortunately for you, calling me a "child" because I don't share your creepy man-crush is akin to hurling spitballs at King fucking Kong.

And I refuse to allow myself to debate/speak with someone like you any longer.

Hey, dumbass, guess what you're doing in this post?

You're an ungrateful little bitch who has a napoleon attitude and feels threatened every time someone disagrees with you. Someday, I hope you realize how you have presented yourself here, and will make some changes. Until then, fuck off.

If I'm grateful for anything, it's that I'm not like you: A middle aged developmentally challenged liar/hypocrite who can't go a single post without projecting his own insecurities and deficits onto others so that he may deal with them externally. Freud would have a fucking field day with you, Greg. Your story ought to be taught in universities around the world: Morons, 101: Understanding the psychologically disturbed and intellectually fucked.

Have a nice one, Greg.

[Michigan Girl]

Giddy is going to consider himself the victor ^^^ simply because
of his ability to repel people/conversation!!

More breast milk, Giddy ...perhaps it's not too late!!

[Greg]

Giddy is going to consider himself the victor ^^^ simply because
of his ability to repel people/conversation!!

More breast milk, Giddy ...perhaps it's not too late!!

Pretty much. He's an ass. Plan and simple. Nothing more, nothing less. Must get lots of practice repelling people outside of the internet too, hence the attitude here.

[Gideon]

Pretty much. He's an ass. Plan and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's funny, because I have a PM from you that says otherwise.
If ethics aren't an issue, I'd still advise you to not bring up private conversations (like you did a few posts up) unless they can't possibly be used against you.

But cheer up: Your keen sense of strategy might land you a job among Journey's promotion team.

Must get lots of practice repelling people outside of the internet too, hence the attitude here.

I'll gladly take all the blame you want to hurl at me, Greg. The facts and sources speak differently, but I'm fairly certain that taking responsibility for your hypocritical bullshit might very well shatter your already failing psyche.

[Gideon]

for what its worth Gid.. I really appreciate your willingness to debate... I'd take a room full of cognitive 20 year olds like yourself, awake & aware... any fucking day of the week over some of the "brain dead" kids I've seen...

I like to do the verbal sparring via text or oratory; the advantages and benefits it affords you when life throws challenges your way are really worth it. The key for me is to not actually get upset in the process. Even the slugging match with Greg isn't a really big deal, I told him after our first spat that I was pretty fond of him and I stand by it. I don't respect many of the decisions he made in this thread, but there's far more to a person than just what we interact with here.

I'm twice your age... saw Journey before Perry joined and saw them with Perry in their heyday... both versions were fucking AMAZING and musically multi-dimensional.. very much more than they are today... Aynsley on drums was mesmerizing... then Smitty... just something else... Rolie and Perry singing together was MAGIC. .... those were the days..

I just know you would have loved it.

I definitely don't dispute Perry's importance to Journey and his killer talent. He's probably my favorite singer of all time (though sometimes I bounce back and forth between him and a few others) and he's certainly one of the most skilled and gifted vocalists in history. Now with that said, I'm not a super fan of the Gregg Rolie years. The writing didn't impress me and there was little variety to the songs, IMHO. Cain really added an element that Rolie couldn't provide and it's there that I must echo Greg's words: He completed the classic Journey sound.

[slucero]

I definitely don't dispute Perry's importance to Journey and his killer talent. He's probably my favorite singer of all time (though sometimes I bounce back and forth between him and a few others) and he's certainly one of the most skilled and gifted vocalists in history. Now with that said, I'm not a super fan of the Gregg Rolie years. The writing didn't impress me and there was little variety to the songs, IMHO. Cain really added an element that Rolie couldn't provide and it's there that I must echo Greg's words: He completed the classic Journey sound.

The funny thing about the Cain/Perry/Schon era is that there were 2 balladeers (Cain/Perry) vs. one rocker (Schon). Cain has already spoken about how easy it was for him to write with Perry, and how he felt as if he were the "go-between" between Perry and Schon... getting Perry to listen to Schons guitar based tunes... I firmly believe its this "untenable marriage" dynamic that provided the basis for what became "classic Journey" to most. Cain/Perry/Schon were definitely hitting on all cylinders songwriting-wise by Escape... and the mass appeal and acceptance is as much a testament to Herbie's marketing mastery as it is the simply stellar writing...

I personally hear a much more organic feel and a broader textural variety with Infinity/Evolution/Departure than I do with Escape/Frontiers/ROR... and remember when I'd heard Infinity/Evolution/Departure, the other albums didn't exist... so my perspective on Escape/Frontiers/ROR isn't going to be the same as yours... you get to hear it as a "body of work"... I heard it as it happened...

Escape/Frontiers/ROR always felt more cookie-cutterish to me... which makes sense to me as Cain/Perry/Schon were functioning better as a unit.

[Andrew]

Pretty much. He's an ass. Plan and simple. Nothing more, nothing less.

It's funny, because I have a PM from you that says otherwise.
If ethics aren't an issue, I'd still advise you to not bring up private conversations (like you did a few posts up) unless they can't possibly be used against you.

But cheer up: Your keen sense of strategy might land you a job among Journey's promotion team.

Must get lots of practice repelling people outside of the internet too, hence the attitude here.

I'll gladly take all the blame you want to hurl at me, Greg. The facts and sources speak differently, but I'm fairly certain that taking responsibility for your hypocritical bullshit might very well shatter your already failing psyche.

Gid - chill out. I'm not going to allow personal attacks on here.

[Andrew]

This thread is tiring.