Anyone Know?

[tater1977]

Anyone know if this trax was ever finished or just left on the
floor during Steve & Tim's writing sessions?
Seems like the Missing You was finished by this time....
& this was just something extra but left unfinished ?

http://youtu.be/LAMIMUlDUas

[STORY_TELLER]

Sounds to me like this recording starts with the genesis of what became "Anyway". It started in one direction then ended with what became the final song. What we're hearing is Perry's sculpting process for finding the melody. No doubt he worked this way with Jon Cain in Journey too. Right around the 4 minute mark you can hear the chord progressions start to change and Steve started finding the melody.

[tater1977]

Sounds to me like this recording starts with the genesis of what became "Anyway". It started in one direction then ended with what became the final song. What we're hearing is Perry's sculpting process for finding the melody. No doubt he worked this way with Jon Cain in Journey too. Right around the 4 minute mark you can hear the chord progressions start to change and Steve started finding the melody.

At the start it sort of sounds like the beginning to Anyway & does change to something else..still sounds pretty good... Thanks

[STORY_TELLER]

Sounds to me like this recording starts with the genesis of what became "Anyway". It started in one direction then ended with what became the final song. What we're hearing is Perry's sculpting process for finding the melody. No doubt he worked this way with Jon Cain in Journey too. Right around the 4 minute mark you can hear the chord progressions start to change and Steve started finding the melody.

At the start it sort of sounds like the beginning to Anyway & does change to something else..still sounds pretty good... Thanks

Miner's piano has a hint of the Anyway chords in the beginning, but at the 4:23 mark it changes and really hits the pocket and Perry keyed into it and changed his melody choice. It's all the searching for the song process. Basically, top to bottom, It's all Anyway.

Like I said, no doubt this is the same process Perry did with Cain and Schon and shows how integral Perry was to the song writing process in Journey. If you listen to the bootleg of "With a Tear", Perry laid down temp lyrics to create a template for finding the melody. Perry molds a song to find the sweet spots of the melody and makes it shine. That's not just a singer, that's a song writer.

[Monker]

Sounds to me like this recording starts with the genesis of what became "Anyway". It started in one direction then ended with what became the final song. What we're hearing is Perry's sculpting process for finding the melody. No doubt he worked this way with Jon Cain in Journey too. Right around the 4 minute mark you can hear the chord progressions start to change and Steve started finding the melody.

At the start it sort of sounds like the beginning to Anyway & does change to something else..still sounds pretty good... Thanks

Miner's piano has a hint of the Anyway chords in the beginning, but at the 4:23 mark it changes and really hits the pocket and Perry keyed into it and changed his melody choice. It's all the searching for the song process. Basically, top to bottom, It's all Anyway.

Like I said, no doubt this is the same process Perry did with Cain and Schon and shows how integral Perry was to the song writing process in Journey. If you listen to the bootleg of "With a Tear", Perry laid down temp lyrics to create a template for finding the melody. Perry molds a song to find the sweet spots of the melody and makes it shine. That's not just a singer, that's a song writer.

Oh please. There are so many ways to approach songwriting. Sometimes there's a lyrical idea. Sometimes there's a musical idea. In this case, they obvious had some good piano melody and Perry was just throwing lyrics at it to see what worked. Obviously, nothing did work...so they used a bit of the melody for Anyway...which I would think Perry had lyrics for.

"With a Tear" is the same situation...Perry fumbling and mumbling through a bunch of senseless lyrics...where he only had a chorus...but the melody was already there. The lyrics were never finished so Neal and Jonathan polished it up as an instrumental for the box set.

Thank God Jonathanc can write music AND lyrics so he could help Perry along with some of this. If you compare the songwriting prior to Escape to everything after, it is obvious that Jonathan filled in the blanks lyrically where nobody else could...no need to have a five minute song where the last 1/3 is "na, na, na, na" because Perry couldn't think of anything else to say.

Now, that may be Perry's songwriting process...and why it takes him a lifetime to finish anything...but I definitely do not believe it was Journey's. Sometimes it may have worked ("Patiently", for example), but it seems to me it didn't for this, and it didn't for "With a Tear". It would have taken Jonathan, or somebody else for FTLOSM, to finish up the idea.

[STORY_TELLER]

Sounds to me like this recording starts with the genesis of what became "Anyway". It started in one direction then ended with what became the final song. What we're hearing is Perry's sculpting process for finding the melody. No doubt he worked this way with Jon Cain in Journey too. Right around the 4 minute mark you can hear the chord progressions start to change and Steve started finding the melody.

At the start it sort of sounds like the beginning to Anyway & does change to something else..still sounds pretty good... Thanks

Miner's piano has a hint of the Anyway chords in the beginning, but at the 4:23 mark it changes and really hits the pocket and Perry keyed into it and changed his melody choice. It's all the searching for the song process. Basically, top to bottom, It's all Anyway.

Like I said, no doubt this is the same process Perry did with Cain and Schon and shows how integral Perry was to the song writing process in Journey. If you listen to the bootleg of "With a Tear", Perry laid down temp lyrics to create a template for finding the melody. Perry molds a song to find the sweet spots of the melody and makes it shine. That's not just a singer, that's a song writer.

Oh please. There are so many ways to approach songwriting. Sometimes there's a lyrical idea. Sometimes there's a musical idea. In this case, they obvious had some good piano melody and Perry was just throwing lyrics at it to see what worked. Obviously, nothing did work...so they used a bit of the melody for Anyway...which I would think Perry had lyrics for.

"With a Tear" is the same situation...Perry fumbling and mumbling through a bunch of senseless lyrics...where he only had a chorus...but the melody was already there. The lyrics were never finished so Neal and Jonathan polished it up as an instrumental for the box set.

Thank God Jonathanc can write music AND lyrics so he could help Perry along with some of this. If you compare the songwriting prior to Escape to everything after, it is obvious that Jonathan filled in the blanks lyrically where nobody else could...no need to have a five minute song where the last 1/3 is "na, na, na, na" because Perry couldn't think of anything else to say.

Now, that may be Perry's songwriting process...and why it takes him a lifetime to finish anything...but I definitely do not believe it was Journey's. Sometimes it may have worked ("Patiently", for example), but it seems to me it didn't for this, and it didn't for "With a Tear". It would have taken Jonathan, or somebody else for FTLOSM, to finish up the idea.

Wow, talk about apples and oranges -- and pears and plums and nectarines. Jesus boy, you really love to mishmash things that have nothing to do with one another, huh? Clearly I could fill a thimble with what you know about the creative process or what it takes to do something creative.

First of all, I happen to love Anyway. I also happen to love a lot of the stuff Journey did before Cain. That you don't, is your opinion and you're entitled to it, but it is also irrelevant to the point you just spewed.

Secondly, and specifically to the point of the creative process you just shit all over -- All creative people work this way in some manner. It's a sculpting process. This is done with all kinds of creative writing. Every writer worth his salt will tell you the first draft you write with your heart, the second you write with your head. That means, you toss it out there, you get it out of your head, you hear it in your own ears, and feel your way through to see what works and what doesn't. Video editors do this with movies, they pull pieces apart, rearrange them, looking for the best fit.

Writing, Drawing, Painting, modeling, film making and yes -- SONG CREATION -- all function via the same principle. Look up the word "Scatting" Monker. It's been around long before Perry and that's what Perry was doing on With A Tear. LYRICS are born out of that process. You ever heard of a jam session? Instrumentals to SONGS are born out of that process. You think Cain doesn't start this way himself, that it just magically comes to him? You think Neal doesn't sit at home and let his fingers fly, recording what he does to see what what comes out of him, then uses it in a song later? You're dreaming. This process has NOTHING to do with why (as you say) "it takes Perry forever to finish a song". It's not remotely related to that issue whatsoever. Again, apples and oranges.

To put such a severe limit on what you feel is the "legitimate" method to go about song writing shows how little you know about being creative.

And finally, Perry is listed as a SONG WRITER on the stuff he did with Journey (with an exception here and there). That means he changed lyrics to suit melodies, he honed and helped fashion the final product -- you know, the ones we all still listen to today? To diminish his contributions to the song writing process is inaccurate on it's face. You think DSB or Open Arms would have been the same song and had the same impact without Perry's craftsmanship input? Again, you're dreaming.

Now if you want to complain about Perry's inactivity, his personal insecurity demons that keep him from performing or putting out music, that's fine. But that's a separate issue and a separate discussion. Don't toss an apple into a discussion about oranges and expect to be taken seriously.

Geez, what a lunatic.

[FezzyChic]

Oh, That Is So Beautiful!! Melts My Heart Without Any Lyrics At All....

[slucero]

Sounds to me like this recording starts with the genesis of what became "Anyway". It started in one direction then ended with what became the final song. What we're hearing is Perry's sculpting process for finding the melody. No doubt he worked this way with Jon Cain in Journey too. Right around the 4 minute mark you can hear the chord progressions start to change and Steve started finding the melody.

At the start it sort of sounds like the beginning to Anyway & does change to something else..still sounds pretty good... Thanks

Miner's piano has a hint of the Anyway chords in the beginning, but at the 4:23 mark it changes and really hits the pocket and Perry keyed into it and changed his melody choice. It's all the searching for the song process. Basically, top to bottom, It's all Anyway.

Like I said, no doubt this is the same process Perry did with Cain and Schon and shows how integral Perry was to the song writing process in Journey. If you listen to the bootleg of "With a Tear", Perry laid down temp lyrics to create a template for finding the melody. Perry molds a song to find the sweet spots of the melody and makes it shine. That's not just a singer, that's a song writer.

Oh please. There are so many ways to approach songwriting. Sometimes there's a lyrical idea. Sometimes there's a musical idea. In this case, they obvious had some good piano melody and Perry was just throwing lyrics at it to see what worked. Obviously, nothing did work...so they used a bit of the melody for Anyway...which I would think Perry had lyrics for.

"With a Tear" is the same situation...Perry fumbling and mumbling through a bunch of senseless lyrics...where he only had a chorus...but the melody was already there. The lyrics were never finished so Neal and Jonathan polished it up as an instrumental for the box set.

Thank God Jonathanc can write music AND lyrics so he could help Perry along with some of this. If you compare the songwriting prior to Escape to everything after, it is obvious that Jonathan filled in the blanks lyrically where nobody else could...no need to have a five minute song where the last 1/3 is "na, na, na, na" because Perry couldn't think of anything else to say.

Now, that may be Perry's songwriting process...and why it takes him a lifetime to finish anything...but I definitely do not believe it was Journey's. Sometimes it may have worked ("Patiently", for example), but it seems to me it didn't for this, and it didn't for "With a Tear". It would have taken Jonathan, or somebody else for FTLOSM, to finish up the idea.

Wow, talk about apples and oranges -- and pears and plums and nectarines. Jesus boy, you really love to mishmash things that have nothing to do with one another, huh? Clearly I could fill a thimble with what you know about the creative process or what it takes to do something creative.

First of all, I happen to love Anyway. I also happen to love a lot of the stuff Journey did before Cain. That you don't, is your opinion and you're entitled to it, but it is also irrelevant to the point you just spewed.

Secondly, and specifically to the point of the creative process you just shit all over -- All creative people work this way in some manner. It's a sculpting process. This is done with all kinds of creative writing. Every writer worth his salt will tell you the first draft you write with your heart, the second you write with your head. That means, you toss it out there, you get it out of your head, you hear it in your own ears, and feel your way through to see what works and what doesn't. Video editors do this with movies, they pull pieces apart, rearrange them, looking for the best fit.

Writing, Drawing, Painting, modeling, film making and yes -- SONG CREATION -- all function via the same principle. Look up the word "Scatting" Monker. It's been around long before Perry and that's what Perry was doing on With A Tear. LYRICS are born out of that process. You ever heard of a jam session? Instrumentals to SONGS are born out of that process. You think Cain doesn't start this way himself, that it just magically comes to him? You think Neal doesn't sit at home and let his fingers fly, recording what he does to see what what comes out of him, then uses it in a song later? You're dreaming. This process has NOTHING to do with why (as you say) "it takes Perry forever to finish a song". It's not remotely related to that issue whatsoever. Again, apples and oranges.

To put such a severe limit on what you feel is the "legitimate" method to go about song writing shows how little you know about being creative.

And finally, Perry is listed as a SONG WRITER on the stuff he did with Journey (with an exception here and there). That means he changed lyrics to suit melodies, he honed and helped fashion the final product -- you know, the ones we all still listen to today? To diminish his contributions to the song writing process is inaccurate on it's face. You think DSB or Open Arms would have been the same song and had the same impact without Perry's craftsmanship input? Again, you're dreaming.

Now if you want to complain about Perry's inactivity, his personal insecurity demons that keep him from performing or putting out music, that's fine. But that's a separate issue and a separate discussion. Don't toss an apple into a discussion about oranges and expect to be taken seriously.

Geez, what a lunatic.

+infinity

[Monker]

First of all, I happen to love Anyway. I also happen to love a lot of the stuff Journey did before Cain. That you don't, is your opinion and you're entitled to it, but it is also irrelevant to the point you just spewed.

Of course it's irrelevant....because you don't even know what my opinion is. I didn't give it.

The simple fact of the matter is that the lyrics prior to Escape were no where near the quality that came from Escape onwards. That is Jonathan's influence in the band.

Secondly, and specifically to the point of the creative process you just shit all over

What I shit all over was this fantasy that Perry just pulled Anyway out of his ass from this writing session.

All creative people work this way in some manner.

That is just simply not true. Some do, some don't. People do what works for them....there isn't some kinda creativity magic spell that works for everybody.

[qujote]Every writer worth his salt will tell you the first draft you write with your heart, the second you write with your head. That means, you toss it out there, you get it out of your head, you hear it in your own ears, and feel your way through to see what works and what doesn't. Video editors do this with movies, they pull pieces apart, rearrange them, looking for the best fit.[/quote]

...and nothing fit with this writing session, or the writing session for "With a Tear". Write with your heart? What if nothing is there that fits the melody or the theme of the song? Simply put, that's what happened here so they move on to something else. There is nothing that says they can't use a bit of lyric or melody from a writing session for another song. You know this....listen to Alien Project, and then listen to Evolution....there were all kinds of bits that Perry lifted from AP and brought to Journey.

Writing, Drawing, Painting, modeling, film making and yes -- SONG CREATION -- all function via the same principle. Look up the word "Scatting" Monker. It's been around long before Perry and that's what Perry was doing on With A Tear. LYRICS are born out of that process. You ever heard of a jam session? Instrumentals to SONGS are born out of that process. You think Cain doesn't start this way himself, that it just magically comes to him? You think Neal doesn't sit at home and let his fingers fly, recording what he does to see what what comes out of him, then uses it in a song later? You're dreaming. This process has NOTHING to do with why (as you say) "it takes Perry forever to finish a song". It's not remotely related to that issue whatsoever. Again, apples and oranges.

LOL....where to begin on this one. No 'lyrics were born' out of this or "With a Tear"...these are simply unfinished songs. That's the bottom line, get over it.

I'm not saying that Cain or Schon doesn't 'start this way'. I'm saying Perry isn't very good at it and needs someone like Cain to help him along. when that person isn't there, it takes him a lifetime to finish anything.

To put such a severe limit on what you feel is the "legitimate" method to go about song writing shows how little you know about being creative.

No, it shows the true creativity ability of Perry and how over estimated his abilities as a songwriter really are by some of his fans

And finally, Perry is listed as a SONG WRITER on the stuff he did with Journey (with an exception here and there). That means he changed lyrics to suit melodies, he honed and helped fashion the final product -- you know, the ones we all still listen to today? To diminish his contributions to the song writing process is inaccurate on it's face. You think DSB or Open Arms would have been the same song and had the same impact without Perry's craftsmanship input? Again, you're dreaming.

I don't diminish his contributions to Journey, or his solo songs....I just don't give credit where it isn't due.

Now if you want to complain about Perry's inactivity

I'm not complaining about that at all. I have expected it ever since I heard his voice cracking in a theater singing "I Stand Alone". If he can't hide his failing voice in a studio, then it's not likely he is going to release anything.

his personal insecurity demons that keep him from performing or putting out music

touring? He'll never tour again...I've said that ever since TBF fell apart.

Geez, what a lunatic.

Thank you!

[STORY_TELLER]

Monker, you're a silly human being, you know that? You need to re-read my original post, then re-read both your responses.

#1: You did state your opinion, it's contained here: If you compare the songwriting prior to Escape to everything after, it is obvious that Jonathan filled in the blanks lyrically where nobody else could...no need to have a five minute song where the last 1/3 is "na, na, na, na" because Perry couldn't think of anything else to say.

I'm not even going to go into how silly the statement is -- like Perry came up with the "na-na's" because he couldn't think of anything else to say? Really? Yeah, you're right, it couldn't POSSIBLY be an intentional choice -- one that can still be heard echoed by the masses of people singing along with it at the shows to this day.

#2: I hate getting into the quote splitting contest. It's weak. The points get convoluted and the argument becomes unclear -- usually to the benefit of the party who has to split hairs and back pedal on the statement to some degree. And yeah, Monker, in this case, that would be you. It takes a lot of time and effort to respond to and is akin to burying opposing council in paperwork to hide short comings in your argument.


BROAD STROKES:
You stated in your response your intent was to simply show the following.
(A) to "shit all over was this fantasy that Perry just pulled Anyway out of his ass from this writing session."
(B) to show that "No 'lyrics were born' out of this (being this other supposed song in the Anyway session) or "With a Tear"...these are simply unfinished songs. That's the bottom line, get over it."

First of all, at no point did I state Perry pulled Anyway out of his ass. I said it was his process for finding the song. I didn't say the lyrics, I said the SONG. Maybe the use of the word "writing process" is what confused you, but NEWS FLASH: There's more to a song than the written word of the lyrics. There's the melody it has to blend with. If the lyrics and melody don't blend, you don't have a song, you have a mess. A good melody is the more difficult element to nail down. When a good melody is found, the easier element to alter is the lyric. You of course follow the same spirit and intent of the original lyric, to keep the story you started with and maintain the ideas you are trying to convey, but you change the specific words until you find the ones that blend with the melody. And what I said was this ANYWAY session showed us how integral Perry was to the SONG writing process in Journey. I have no doubt Perry did this exact same method/altering of Jon Cain's words on every song Perry is given a writing credit for. Does that clarify my statement enough for you?

Secondly, and specifically to the point of With a Tear, show me where I said it was a finished song. I used with a tear as an example to illustrate my point about Perry's process because the approach is clearly akin to what we're hearing in the Anyway session. That shows a repetition of process for Perry. At no point did I say this was the way Perry goes about writing all his lyrics. All songs start with an idea. Perry in particular is quoted as saying, with regard to FTLOSM, he doesn't just write a song to write a song. He needed to have something to say. If one is trying to convey an idea, a thought, a concept, an emotion, it starts there, then they work to figure out how to convey it with words. FROM THERE the singer has to figure out how to make those words WORK in a melody. As I stated above, the words get altered to fit the melody -- because the melody is the more difficult element to nail down.

The problem with you, Monker, is you project your thoughts into other people's statements. You did that here -- TWICE. You jumped in, half cocked, projected your take on my words, spewed a bunch of shit in an effort to diminish. At no point did I diminish Cain's contributions in my statements. I pointed out how integral Perry was in the song writing process in Journey. He was the focal point and he had a LOT of say in that band. Movie directors work in the same manner. They take bits and pieces of other people's great ideas and fashions them to suit their vision for the overall film. They call that a collaborative process.

My opinion is that Cain, as talented and prolific as he is, doesn't originate songs (including melodies) as strong as those he did when HE collaborated with Perry.

My opinion, and I'm willing to put money on this, is that the link provided by Tater is all part of the Anyway song session. There is no additional song that was dropped before they moved onto Anyway. I draw this conclusion from both the piano and vocal melodies. They are too close to the melody found in the final song that became Anyway to be anything else.

So in conclusion, Monker, bear in mind this is a written format. You can take your time to think things through before you post, so you don't have to back track and explain yourself line by line, letter by letter, syllable by syllable.

[slucero]

don't forget that in songwriting there is a melody for the music.. AND one for the lyric...

[Monker]

#1: You did state your opinion, it's contained here: If you compare the songwriting prior to Escape to everything after, it is obvious that Jonathan filled in the blanks lyrically where nobody else could...no need to have a five minute song where the last 1/3 is "na, na, na, na" because Perry couldn't think of anything else to say.

Sure...and you took that opinion out of context and stated, "I happen to love Anyway. I also happen to love a lot of the stuff Journey did before Cain. That you don't, is your opinion and you're entitled to it,"

I did not give my opinion on if I liked Journey's music prior to Escape or not. I am simply stating that Jonathan elevated the songwriting in Journey to a new level. A level that Steve Perry could not attain without him.

#2: I hate getting into the quote splitting contest. It's weak.

It also helps save time in that a person does not have to scan a thread to understand why somebody said what they said and what exactly they are replying to. It's pretty lame and lazy of you to write a huge post like this and expect others to do that...which is exactly what I had to in reply to the previous quote.

BROAD STROKES:
You stated in your response your intent was to simply show the following.
(A) to "shit all over was this fantasy that Perry just pulled Anyway out of his ass from this writing session."

Yep...again, since you are too lazy to quote and like to take things out of context....that was in reply to you saying, "Secondly, and specifically to the point of the creative process you just shit all over".

If you want to take yourself down to that level, I can go there too...and a lot further. So, maybe you should stop trying to be such a drama queen when you are trying to make your point.

The bottom line is you are taking two songwriting sessions and using those to extrapolate how much songwriting contributions Perry made to Journey, and how he did it. That is incredibly foolish....especially when all Perry is doing is stumbling through a bunch of random lyrics that don't make sense and the song obviously remained unfinished.

(B) to show that "No 'lyrics were born' out of this (being this other supposed song in the Anyway session) or "With a Tear"...these are simply unfinished songs. That's the bottom line, get over it."

Tell me exactly what lyrics from this songwriting session were 'born' and matured into any Perry solo song.

It went nowhere.

"With a Tear"obviously had a chorus but not much else...and the song remained unfinished.

And, you ignore the FACT that Perry used bits of Alien Project for Evolution. THAT is a fact on how songwriting works. That is what happened here with Anyway. They took a bit of melody from this session used it in Anyway. You are inventing things by calling the the "Anyway writing session." You don't know that to be a fact and are assuming way too much and accepting your opinion as fact.

First of all, at no point did I state Perry pulled Anyway out of his ass. I said it was his process for finding the song. I didn't say the lyrics, I said the SONG. Maybe the use of the word "writing process" is what confused you, but NEWS FLASH: There's more to a song than the written word of the lyrics. There's the melody it has to blend with. If the lyrics and melody don't blend, you don't have a song, you have a mess. A good melody is the more difficult element to nail down.

Oh, please, now you are saying exactly what I said in the beginning...that they took a bit of melody from this writing session and applied it to the "Anyway" lyrics.

And, you are wrong....sometimes the melody comes first, simetimes the lyrics. Even you mentioned Neal recording himself just playing around in case something comes out that can be used later. But, just because he is playing around and records it and the melody for "Lights" comes out, it does not mean it "Lights" writing session.

How lame.

When a good melody is found, the easier element to alter is the lyric.

My God, you generalize EVERYTHING. You generalize the creative process, saying the basics is always the same, and now you are generalizing by saying melody is always harder. it depends on the person. It depends on the song. It depends on a lot of things...but saying lyrics are easier then music is just not true for every writer, every band, or even every song.

You of course follow the same spirit and intent of the original lyric,'

No, writers write. And, then they rewrite.

But, in the case of this writing session, nothing was written lyrically.

to keep the story you started with and maintain the ideas you are trying to convey, but you change the specific words until you find the ones that blend with the melody.

LOL...and in this case, there were no words to change.

And what I said was this ANYWAY session showed us how integral Perry was to the SONG writing process in Journey. I have no doubt Perry did this exact same method/altering of Jon Cain's words on every song Perry is given a writing credit for. Does that clarify my statement enough for you?

And, I say this 'writing session' is not an "Anyway' writing session, except in your bias opinion. Therefore, it isn't an example of anything. And, even if it was, you are generalizing yet again by thinking this is how Perry got a writing credit on EVERY song that Perry is given a writing credit for. He could have changed the lyrics in this way, he could have the melody in this way, he could have change either before a 'writing session' even happened', he could have changed either in the studio when they were doing the actual recording. Or, he could have told the band to give him a writing credit or he wouldn't sing the song for the record. You just don't know....nobody does except Perry and the band.

I used with a tear as an example to illustrate my point about Perry's process because the approach is clearly akin to what we're hearing in the Anyway session.

Except it is completely different because there was actually a chorus and part of a verse in "With a Tear". In the writing session here, there is nothing. To hear this and then call it an "Anyway" writing session is loony.

My opinion is that Cain, as talented and prolific as he is, doesn't originate songs (including melodies) as strong as those he did when HE collaborated with Perry.

IYO, as a songwriter, Cain doesn't "originate" songs as strong as those he did with Perry? Your loss.

]quote]My opinion, and I'm willing to put money on this, is that the link provided by Tater is all part of the Anyway song session.[/quote]

And, my opinion is that this is part of FTLOSM sessions where they had a piano melody and were just playing around with lyrics...but nothing came out of it until later.

BTW, does anybody have that song by song description that Perry released just prior to when FTLOSM came out? It would be kinda interesting to read what Perry wrote there.

[STORY_TELLER]

Oh lord, Monker, I really wish I had time to respond to all of this, but I don't. The only thing I have time to point out is this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAMIMUlDUas


My insight/instinct tells me this:
Fast forward to the 4 minute mark and I think even you'll agree, Miner is still using the same family of piano chords as heard at the start of the video. At 4:14 Perry gives Miner a melody note and Miner shifts his piano. Perry doesn't say "lets come back to this" or "forget that it's not working" or "lets move on" or anything that could be construed as some instruction to drop this supposed other song and then move onto a song called Anyway. What I hear is a melody instruction or some creative note to follow a line of thought or shift of direction in the context of what they're looking to become Anyway. The piano quickly starts shifting into Anyway's familiar chord progression. Continue listening and at 4:36 Perry suddenly throws in a soaring vocal where he hits on the melody he was looking for and ultimately developed in Anyway. Conclusion: this is all "Anyway".

$100.00 on this Monker, are you game?

I think we can get Laura to answer the question for us as to whether or not the writing session heard in this link is all "Anyway" or if there was another song that was dropped and then Perry went onto Anyway.

Laura, if you're reading, I hate to drag you into this, but if you could you please post if I'm right or wrong? You don't have to go into detail, simply stating Storyteller is right or wrong will be enough.

[STORY_TELLER]

don't forget that in songwriting there is a melody for the music.. AND one for the lyric...

Yes, absolutely.

[Lora]

I think we can get Laura to answer the question for us as to whether or not the writing session heard in this link is all "Anyway" or if there was another song that was dropped and then Perry went onto Anyway.

Laura, if you're reading, I hate to drag you into this, but if you could you please post if I'm right or wrong? You don't have to go into detail, simply stating Storyteller is right or wrong will be enough.

1) You spelled my name wrong.
2) I seriously doubt that Steve or Tim Miner wanted this out there so whoever leaked this 'writing session' is unprofessional and hopefully not working in the music industry any longer.
3) I don't read posts by Monker. You made me go back and read it so I could answer you. Now I have a headache.
4) You are wasting keystrokes and bandwidth trying to reason with someone who has nothing better to do than hang out on a Steve Perry forum and bash said person.
5) I wasn't there during this writing session (too bad) so don't know where it was going. Sounds like they were throwing ideas around as happens in most writing sessions. Steve played us a few tracks recorded during that time that didn't make it on FTLOSM, but I don't remember specifics.

[Ftloperry]

Anyone know if this trax was ever finished or just left on the
floor during Steve & Tim's writing sessions?
Seems like the Missing You was finished by this time....
& this was just something extra but left unfinished ?

http://youtu.be/LAMIMUlDUas

I wouldn't let me hear it. Said the video was private.

[Rick]

Anyone know if this trax was ever finished or just left on the
floor during Steve & Tim's writing sessions?
Seems like the Missing You was finished by this time....
& this was just something extra but left unfinished ?

http://youtu.be/LAMIMUlDUas

I wouldn't let me hear it. Said the video was private.

See Lora's post above.

[steveo777]

Anyone know if this trax was ever finished or just left on the
floor during Steve & Tim's writing sessions?
Seems like the Missing You was finished by this time....
& this was just something extra but left unfinished ?

http://youtu.be/LAMIMUlDUas

I wouldn't let me hear it. Said the video was private.

See Lora's post above.

Somebody put the smack down on!

[STORY_TELLER]

I think we can get Laura to answer the question for us as to whether or not the writing session heard in this link is all "Anyway" or if there was another song that was dropped and then Perry went onto Anyway.

Laura, if you're reading, I hate to drag you into this, but if you could you please post if I'm right or wrong? You don't have to go into detail, simply stating Storyteller is right or wrong will be enough.

1) You spelled my name wrong.
2) I seriously doubt that Steve or Tim Miner wanted this out there so whoever leaked this 'writing session' is unprofessional and hopefully not working in the music industry any longer.
3) I don't read posts by Monker. You made me go back and read it so I could answer you. Now I have a headache.
4) You are wasting keystrokes and bandwidth trying to reason with someone who has nothing better to do than hang out on a Steve Perry forum and bash said person.
5) I wasn't there during this writing session (too bad) so don't know where it was going. Sounds like they were throwing ideas around as happens in most writing sessions. Steve played us a few tracks recorded during that time that didn't make it on FTLOSM, but I don't remember specifics.

Hi Lora (SORRY, SORRY, SORRY about the name misspelling! I'm working via email with someone who's name is spelled "Laura", so it was subconscious, lol...)

Thanks for chiming in, most kind. SORRY for making you read Monker's posts. It's not a good idea to share one's headache. I recommend Excederine myself [smiles].

Agreed on your assessment of wasting keystrokes and bandwidth. I'm smack in the middle of juggling deadlines on 3 projects so I really don't have time to mess around in here, except on occasion over morning coffee, and even that has a time limit.

Yes, I figured this boot wasn't an intentional leak, and agreed, very unprofessional of the individual who leaked it, but I have to say, my ears are grateful. It's a tremendous treat to hear Steve's sculpting process.

Shame you can't recall the specifics of the tracks you mentioned, or if this audio track is related to them, but if you're thinking this was them throwing ideas around, based on your experience, is it safe to say this was a "spitball session" (i.e. throwing ideas against the wall to see what sticks)?

Thank you, Lora, sincerely.

[Lora]

Anyone know if this trax was ever finished or just left on the
floor during Steve & Tim's writing sessions?
Seems like the Missing You was finished by this time....
& this was just something extra but left unfinished ?

http://youtu.be/LAMIMUlDUas

I wouldn't let me hear it. Said the video was private.

See Lora's post above.

Somebody put the smack down on!

This boot has been floating around the internet for years. Many, many people have it and have posted it in various places. I have no issue with anyone except the person who was in the studio when it was recorded and decided it was okay to give it to others. Not cool.

I didn't put a smack down on anyone. Making the video 'private' was a decision made by the person who owns that youtube channel. Kinda funny really. That is like trying to lock the barn door when the horse has been galloping around for a few years.

[Lora]

Hi Lora (SORRY, SORRY, SORRY about the name misspelling! I'm working via email with someone who's name is spelled "Laura", so it was subconscious, lol...)

Thanks for chiming in, most kind. SORRY for making you read Monker's posts. It's not a good idea to share one's headache. I recommend Excederine myself [smiles].

Agreed on your assessment of wasting keystrokes and bandwidth. I'm smack in the middle of juggling deadlines on 3 projects so I really don't have time to mess around in here, except on occasion over morning coffee, and even that has a time limit.

Yes, I figured this boot wasn't an intentional leak, and agreed, very unprofessional of the individual who leaked it, but I have to say, my ears are grateful. It's a tremendous treat to hear Steve's sculpting process.

Shame you can't recall the specifics of the tracks you mentioned, or if this audio track is related to them, but if you're thinking this was them throwing ideas around, based on your experience, is it safe to say this was a "spitball session" (i.e. throwing ideas against the wall to see what sticks)?

Thank you, Lora, sincerely.

No worries. I was just messing with you.

Steve played those tracks for Cyndy and I over a decade ago. I can't even remember what I did yesterday.

[Art Vandelay]

Hi Lora (SORRY, SORRY, SORRY about the name misspelling! I'm working via email with someone who's name is spelled "Laura", so it was subconscious, lol...)

Thanks for chiming in, most kind. SORRY for making you read Monker's posts. It's not a good idea to share one's headache. I recommend Excederine myself [smiles].

Agreed on your assessment of wasting keystrokes and bandwidth. I'm smack in the middle of juggling deadlines on 3 projects so I really don't have time to mess around in here, except on occasion over morning coffee, and even that has a time limit.

Yes, I figured this boot wasn't an intentional leak, and agreed, very unprofessional of the individual who leaked it, but I have to say, my ears are grateful. It's a tremendous treat to hear Steve's sculpting process.

Shame you can't recall the specifics of the tracks you mentioned, or if this audio track is related to them, but if you're thinking this was them throwing ideas around, based on your experience, is it safe to say this was a "spitball session" (i.e. throwing ideas against the wall to see what sticks)?

Thank you, Lora, sincerely.

No worries. I was just messing with you.

Steve played those tracks for Cyndy and I over a decade ago. I can't even remember what I did yesterday.

So in one word, what is it like to have Steve Perry play one of his demo tracks for you?

[Lora]

So in one word, what is it like to have Steve Perry play one of his demo tracks for you?

wondrous

[artist4perry]

So in one word, what is it like to have Steve Perry play one of his demo tracks for you?

wondrous

I can only imagine...literally. Glad at least you got to hear him Lora. And I have to say the word is DUH..Art! LOL

[Kor'n]

I did not give my opinion on if I liked Journey's music prior to Escape or not. I am simply stating that Jonathan elevated the songwriting in Journey to a new level. A level that Steve Perry could not attain without him.

From what I've read, the "songwriting" did not seem "elevated" when Cain was in the Babys and Bad English. Straight from the horse's mouth - "greatest success came with Steve Perry." A level that [Jonathan Cain] could not attain without him" and HAS NOT attained "without him."

Street Talk - Multi-platinum / Perry w/NO Cain
FTLOSM - Gold / Perry w/NO Cain
Arrival, Generations, Red13, Revelation (Fluke), Eclipse (Flop) all Flops w/Cain but NO Perry.

Kinda like numbers and facts myself, not theories and opinions. But my opinion is, do not hear the "elevated" writing in Escape and Frontier, but that could be b/c they have not come to be my favorites and not many spins like Evolution or GH2.

Evolution is better than Escape. Like that DJ interviewer said, I too "like the simplicity [realness] of it."

And here is another opinion from the dreaded one.....

"Steve Perry, a fine singer with knack for writing songs with strong hooks. They work better now as a unit and never rocked harder." Rollingstone 1980/Departure

And what I said was this ANYWAY session showed us how integral Perry was to the SONG writing process in Journey. I have no doubt Perry did this exact same method/altering of Jon Cain's words on every song Perry is given a writing credit for. Does that clarify my statement enough for you?

And, I say this 'writing session' is not an "Anyway' writing session, except in your bias opinion. Therefore, it isn't an example of anything. And, even if it was, you are generalizing yet again by thinking this is how Perry got a writing credit on EVERY song that Perry is given a writing credit for. He could have changed the lyrics in this way, he could have the melody in this way, he could have change either before a 'writing session' even happened', he could have changed either in the studio when they were doing the actual recording. Or, he could have told the band to give him a writing credit or he wouldn't sing the song for the record. You just don't know....nobody does except Perry and the band.

"Steve would write a line, I would write a line." Cain 81/Live in Houston. Perry was not "given a writing credit" for he simply acquired credits for having written on over 98% of songs during the "Steve Perry era." Looking at Journey's post-Perry years, those words "give [me] a writing credit" seemingly were more akin to Cain. We do "know," all needed is just gather up success without Perry's name on it.

Music Review: Journey - Greatest Hits Volume 2
by Greg Barbrick - blogcritics.org
November 03, 2011

"The only real question here is, "What took them so long? Since its release in 1988, Journey's Greatest Hits has sold over 25 million copies, which makes it one of the bestselling albums of all time. Although their newly released Greatest Hits Volume 2 will probably not reach those kinds of numbers, it is a solid collection. The tracks included span the years 1978-1996. Coincidentally, these are the years in which a certain Mr .Steve Perry fronted the band. Say what you will about Perry (Lord knows his fellow Journey-men have), but one thing is certain. The guy knew how to write an AOR hit. "

and Monker too

My opinion is that Cain, as talented and prolific as he is, doesn't originate songs (including melodies) as strong as those he did when HE collaborated with Perry.

IYO, as a songwriter, Cain doesn't "originate" songs as strong as those he did with Perry? Your loss.

Seems Cain's prolificity (Is that a word?) has not brought him much success without Steve Perry. Cain's "loss."



See you at the "Buffalo Chip" show.

[slucero]

[Michigan Girl]

Evolution is better than Escape. Like that DJ interviewer said, I too "like the simplicity [realness] of it."

And here is another opinion from the dreaded one.....

"Steve Perry, a fine singer with knack for writing songs with strong hooks. They work better now as a unit and never rocked harder." Rollingstone 1980/Departure

The entire exchange ^^^ST, Kor'n, Monker, very interesting reading, I'm enjoying it immensely.
Thank you to Lora, for her input ...you too slucero. I felt the need to isolate this quote as
you don't see/hear it being said often, and I happen to agree w/it 100%. Evolution is a favorite and
I have pointed out on many occasions the brilliance in the simplicity of the songs, such as S&S (my fav) w/what?!?
a total of 20 some odd words in the entire song. It is sweet and it is simple, but it is a beautiful song with
a beautiful melody and it is still one deep pool ...the list goes on. Anyway, please, carry on! Great
facts being presented here!!

[Memorex]

Evolution is what got me into the band. I still favor TBF above all, but Evolution is probably my second favorite.

[Gideon]

Both Bad English's debut album and Revelation enjoy platinum accreditation.
Street Talk was released at the height of Journey's success and logically contributed to the album sales not unlike Revelation's inclusion of the dirty dozen. Comparing ST to FTLOSM only proves that; it only went gold. And those who scream GRUNGE can look no further than TBF's album sales only 2 years later: it went platinum.

As far as 'opinions and theories' go, people can trade quotes and comments from bandmates and reviewers to trump one party over the other. You need look no further than my signature, where SP himself lavishly hands the credit to Escape's success to Jonathan Cain.

Straight from the horse's mouth, indeed.

[Michigan Girl]

Evolution is what got me into the band. I still favor TBF above all, but Evolution is probably my second favorite.

I'm w/you ...for years I went back and forth, but I've just
resolved myself into believing it's a tie. I remember being excited about,
and loving, each new release, and thinking, wow, this is better than the last.
But, in the end, everyone knows what resonates with them the most.


Bad English's debut album?!? ... I thought that success was largely due to a Diane Warren song.
Revelation?!? James Young, of Styx fame, just stated what many folks here have been saying since
it came out ...I'm afraid he may be on to something.