Obama's Afghan decision

[RossValoryRocks]

Actually it might surprise some people here, but I think The President did a good job over all, with the exception of going back to blame Bush. Though I do understand the politics of it.

He made his decision, and he knows its going play badly with his base, so his speech writer throws Bush under the bus so it becomes more acceptable to his base: "I am cleaning up Bush's mess, I don't really want to do it, but I have no choice."

And he is damned if he does or if he doesn't. What he has chosen to do is the right thing, he knows this, but his base disagrees. While the Repubicans are going to jump on him for taking so much time, and not sending the initially requested 40K.

Yup, he's fucked. But I am glad he stood up and did what is right.

[squirt1]

Monker- No WMD'S is NUTS !!!!!!!!!!! There was WMD left there after the 1st Gulf War. We knew it and watched where it was. The 2nd Gulf war was even more important because we had a psycotic,dulutional murderer who was working with our pals, the Russians. That is when Bush went in and the Russians packed up 55 semi's heading for Syria as we entered from the south.I saw it on TV. Whatever they left with is buried to this day in the Beccka Valley . Our soldiers said of finding the emains" Whoever did this(referring to equiptment) knew what they were doing. As recent as July 2007 the AP reported that 1100-1200-metric tons of YELLOWCAKE were removed by us ,through the Mediterranian, to Canada. It is now being used in reactors for electric.

[Eric]

You've got to be kidding me. He did a great job giving the speech, despite whether you liked the content. And, yes, George Bush comes to mind in a big way when you're criticizing the way Obama delivered that speech.

W may have been inarticulate, but O sounds robotic. Both are better off the cuff with a little emotion, although O is more polished in both cases.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You've got to be kidding me. He did a great job giving the speech, despite whether you liked the content. And, yes, George Bush comes to mind in a big way when you're criticizing the way Obama delivered that speech.

W may have been inarticulate, but O sounds robotic. Both are better off the cuff with a little emotion, although O is more polished in both cases.

Both can't speak off the cuff worth a damn.
W was good in 2000, so much so he actually seemed like a viable alternative to Gore.
I think the years of blow caught up with him.
As for Obama, he's NEVER been able to speak on his feet.
His debate performances were horrible, the media propped him up and continued the myth of the great orator.
One groveling suborinate cable news bitch even called him a debate "jujitsu master."
But he was horrible.
Lesser candidates ranging from Biden to Kucinich to Gravel mopped the floor with him nightly.
This was soo obvious early on, I was sure he'd get steamrolled in the debates with McCain.
But, hey, I thought Kerry gave rousing speeches, so what the hell do I know?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBcMUZAX ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXzGkdABVzk

[S2M]

Don't be fooled... this is a deal....

The Republicans (and their best supporters the war industry) get their war in Afganistan.....

The Democrats will get their HealthCare Bill (tax) passed.....

I support the troops and the war effort...and the reason to finish the job... WIN BABY WIN... we need that too happen once and for all... I also think beisdes ground troops its time to bomb the hell out of the caves again... My question is this... lets say July 2011 comes... and were not ready to withdrawl...what happens??? Do protesters start marching???


I also think Osma is dead and has been for at least 6 years...I have always thought that... but the taliban keeps regrouping anyway, because thats how they live...

I also think Kerrys senate report is creative writing to blame Bush that the war is still going on and is cover for senate democrats... its all they have... blame bush...
blame cheney...blame rummsfeld... it works for them... HEALTH CARE AND BLAME BUSH...

Until YOU, or someone else defines what a WIN, or WINNING would be - this mode of thinking is absolute nonsense!

[lights1961]

Don't be fooled... this is a deal....

The Republicans (and their best supporters the war industry) get their war in Afganistan.....

The Democrats will get their HealthCare Bill (tax) passed.....

I support the troops and the war effort...and the reason to finish the job... WIN BABY WIN... we need that too happen once and for all... I also think beisdes ground troops its time to bomb the hell out of the caves again... My question is this... lets say July 2011 comes... and were not ready to withdrawl...what happens??? Do protesters start marching???


I also think Osma is dead and has been for at least 6 years...I have always thought that... but the taliban keeps regrouping anyway, because thats how they live...

I also think Kerrys senate report is creative writing to blame Bush that the war is still going on and is cover for senate democrats... its all they have... blame bush...
blame cheney...blame rummsfeld... it works for them... HEALTH CARE AND BLAME BUSH...

Until YOU, or someone else defines what a WIN, or WINNING would be - this mode of thinking is absolute nonsense!

winning... other side surrenders...throws up the white flag... end of story... and maybe that means doing something you really dont want to do... USE REAL MUSCLE AND FORCE IN THE WHOLE DAMN REGION...

[S2M]

Since when have you ever heard of a religious fanatic surrendering?

step away from the Fox News pipe......

[lights1961]

Since when have you ever heard of a religious fanatic surrendering?

step away from the Fox News pipe......

you quit too easy...Iam not fox news... thought they report fine... I am who Iam always been... if we are worth anything... if our way of life is worth anything... if our country is worth fighing for... were there til we finish the job... get it right once and for all... if we leave now...why would we fight for anything else ever again...

defining a liberal... its too hard... lets quit... we dont want to make the world pissed at us... lets run away...
lets pretend 9/11 never happened... lets go back to health care... lets go back to climate change... these are easy subjects that we can control.... and its fun...
thats where our power is... the hell with whats really important... oh and last W and Cheney suck... thats defining todays liberal...




R

[Eric]

You talk about these actions with the icy cavalier detachment of a serial killer.
Sure, all those things are swell, especially when it’s not your ass, or your son’s and daughter’s ass, on the front line.
None of the post-facto Iraq justifications you listed above was worth ONE single American life.

I don't mean to sound that way, I really don't. And you're right it is real easy for me to say. However, I try to point out the positives partly because I remember taking a Vietnam War class in college, and there was a vet teaching it and I remember him saying he couldn't find one thing from it that was worth fighting for. I honestly..with all my heart don't think that the Iraq vets have to feel this way too.

[brywool]

That's like saying Bush only dug himself a 'partial' hole in Iraq.

You mean that unwinnable war that is won (and...those withdraw dates were Bush's, before you try to pretend Obama made that decision)? The war that drew Al Quada into a beatable situation and dealt them a body blow? That one? History will likely show WMD's were not counted on as the primary reason (I still think they assumed some would found), but successful it was, nonetheless. Whether you can say it was worth over 4k lives is not something that is arguable.....I couldn't make a decision to go to war, thats for damn sure, but time will tell whether trying to create a democracy in the middle of hell was a good idea or not.

Iraq was a war that should never have been started in the first place and Bush allowed it to drag on for FAR too long. It drew our attention away from the real problem in Afghanistan and split our resources. I never said it was an 'unwinnable war'. I said (in fact, I argued with Deen about this) that if took putting a soldier on every street corner to get peace and stability in that country, then that is what we should do.

Iraq was not worth 1 person dying for. It was not a threat to this country in ANY way. Period. Iraq was the modern day Cuba of the middle-east. They had a loud mothed dictator with a lot of talk but nothing behind him to make him a real threat.

WMD's were one reason we went there - and they didn't exist. Tying Iraq to 9/11 and terrorism in general was another...and that was all lies, until AFTER we were there and Al Quada saw an opening. It was ALL a huge waste of time, money, and lives....and it is all on W, his legacy.

Well said.

Now, we're stuck over there. Neither of these wars will ever be won by us. When religion is so heavily tied to it, you might as well forget it.

[brywool]

Since when have you ever heard of a religious fanatic surrendering?

step away from the Fox News pipe......

you quit too easy...Iam not fox news... thought they report fine... I am who Iam always been... if we are worth anything... if our way of life is worth anything... if our country is worth fighing for... were there til we finish the job... get it right once and for all... if we leave now...why would we fight for anything else ever again...

defining a liberal... its too hard... lets quit... we dont want to make the world pissed at us... lets run away...
lets pretend 9/11 never happened... lets go back to health care... lets go back to climate change... these are easy subjects that we can control.... and its fun...
thats where our power is... the hell with whats really important... oh and last W and Cheney suck... thats defining todays liberal...




R

If I've deciphered your post correctly...
This has NOTHING to do with "our country being worth fighting for". That kind of talk gets pulled out every time that leaving is discussed. We're not fighting for our country at all. Iraq is not a threat to us. We should "Run"? We been there ten friggin years and it's still going on. It's not like we came in for a month and are giving up. What would you have us do, just conquer, take over, and claim their country? The deal was "we will help you till you can help yourselves". They're not stepping up. Why should we? It's time to get out. It's PASSED time to get out.

Liberal vs. Conservative- wow, that whole thing is working so well for the country. It's divisive bs and I'm SO sick of Fox Vs CNN Vs. Rush Vs .... The fact is, whatever we're doing over there ain't working. We should've never been there in the first place. We've helped them and they're not stepping up to help themselves. I'm not sure how people can justify us being in Iraq.