Sharia law here in Michigan. Unbelievable

[BobbyinTN]

[you can separate Him from them. It doesn't matter what religion you practice, to my knowledge all of them have some sort of a bible. But I don't get how you can believe in God without a means to reach Him (religion). Religion and the bible don't take advantage of people... PEOPLE take advantage of people. Each of us gets out of it what we put into it.

I admit that I have all the same questions you guys have brought up, and struggle with them almost daily. I have no answers for you. And at the end of our days if I'm proven wrong, then the joke will be on me. It's simply a matter of faith. Some have it, some don't.

Fun fact: Mother Theresa lost her faith for a long time, which is revealed in several letters that she wrote to family and friends.

Shortly after beginning work in Calcutta's slums, the spirit left Mother Teresa. "Where is my faith?" she wrote. "Even deep down… there is nothing but emptiness and darkness... If there be God — please forgive me."

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1655415,00.html


Now, what disturbs me the most isn't that some of you soldiers of God claims that he created women out of the rib of a thieving retard, but that none of you people have given me props for my last post. It has to be the best post ever - I'm like a roided up Stephen Hawking on a bulldozer (with some boyish charms, of course)

What's really amazing is they think the male would have been created first. Ask any DNA scientist and they will tell you after a few generations the male's DNA is untraceable but the female DNA can be traced back to the first human to walk upright.


Man wrote and edited the Bible and wanted MEN to be the most powerful and the smartest and all that crap. They considered women inferior.They thought women had no right to do anything but what their men told them to do. Women that accept that kind of bullshit really need a reality check or at least some self-pride.

Uh........Have you read the bible? I have, many times and I never read that women were inferior. Mostly I read that a good woman was of great value. They likened a virtuous woman one to be as precious as rubies. She held a job, two in fact. She was great at running the household, and helping her husband. She brought him pride in the marketplace. She dressed well, and took good care of her children. The children all were well cared for and well dressed. They speak of her as a great helper and an asset to his life. Men are not to bully women but to love them as themselves as a matter of fact as Christ loved the church..........to the extent he was willing to lay down his life for it. My husband helps me around the house. He finds me to be inteligent, and the best thing in his life. He calls me his most precious blessing. He does not order me around. He asks me for help when needed.

Yes, darlin', the woman has always be inferior in the Bible. Look at these verses:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm

[StevePerryHair]

[you can separate Him from them. It doesn't matter what religion you practice, to my knowledge all of them have some sort of a bible. But I don't get how you can believe in God without a means to reach Him (religion). Religion and the bible don't take advantage of people... PEOPLE take advantage of people. Each of us gets out of it what we put into it.

I admit that I have all the same questions you guys have brought up, and struggle with them almost daily. I have no answers for you. And at the end of our days if I'm proven wrong, then the joke will be on me. It's simply a matter of faith. Some have it, some don't.

Fun fact: Mother Theresa lost her faith for a long time, which is revealed in several letters that she wrote to family and friends.

Shortly after beginning work in Calcutta's slums, the spirit left Mother Teresa. "Where is my faith?" she wrote. "Even deep down… there is nothing but emptiness and darkness... If there be God — please forgive me."

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1655415,00.html


Now, what disturbs me the most isn't that some of you soldiers of God claims that he created women out of the rib of a thieving retard, but that none of you people have given me props for my last post. It has to be the best post ever - I'm like a roided up Stephen Hawking on a bulldozer (with some boyish charms, of course)

What's really amazing is they think the male would have been created first. Ask any DNA scientist and they will tell you after a few generations the male's DNA is untraceable but the female DNA can be traced back to the first human to walk upright.


Man wrote and edited the Bible and wanted MEN to be the most powerful and the smartest and all that crap. They considered women inferior.They thought women had no right to do anything but what their men told them to do. Women that accept that kind of bullshit really need a reality check or at least some self-pride.

Uh........Have you read the bible? I have, many times and I never read that women were inferior. Mostly I read that a good woman was of great value. They likened a virtuous woman one to be as precious as rubies. She held a job, two in fact. She was great at running the household, and helping her husband. She brought him pride in the marketplace. She dressed well, and took good care of her children. The children all were well cared for and well dressed. They speak of her as a great helper and an asset to his life. Men are not to bully women but to love them as themselves as a matter of fact as Christ loved the church..........to the extent he was willing to lay down his life for it. My husband helps me around the house. He finds me to be inteligent, and the best thing in his life. He calls me his most precious blessing. He does not order me around. He asks me for help when needed.

Yes, darlin', the woman has always be inferior in the Bible. Look at these verses:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/DarkBible/darkbible7.htm

Yes, because in biblical times, that is how women were treated. That's a no brainer that we have evolved from that thinking. Not EVERY Christian takes the bible literally. Many religions see it as a book of messages from God to use as examples in our lives. We can STILL learn from these stories. Even the ones where women are stated as inferior, or at least how some interpret that. And duh, men and women ARE different. That is a no brainer too. They spend too much time trying to prove they are the same. We are different, we each have our gifts for the world, and I think it's just fine that way. As long as women can pursue the same dreams and make their own choices in life, I am happy.

[donnaplease]

I'm fine with you people having a different opinion than me; that's the reason why we're having this discussion. Now, like most other people I've asked myself if there's a God. I chose to not believe in a God, because it's a insurmountable amount of evidence that says the likelihood of a Creator is close to nothing; both from a physical and metaphysical stand point. Now, let's say God exists, contrary to modern day science, I still wouldn't be religious. Because I am my own man; and takes responsibility for my own actions. My little cousin got cystic fibrosis. It's a genetic mutation - nothing fancy or strange about it. But I don't spend time wishing or praying or create some fantasy image about how she'll, when passed away, live in paradise all happy and CF-free. No, I, as my family, spend as much precious time with her as we can, and make the best out of the hand she was dealt in gestation.

Religion is a comforting thought, but nonetheless a man made fantasy created in ancient times to give a explanation to the then unknown parts of life. Say what you want about me being arrogant or pissing in whore's mouths or whatever, but I've got enough balls to see the world for what it is, without the need for comfort from a man in the sky. God hasn't helped my cousin live this long, but science have. Ten years back, the median life expectancy of a newborn with CF has increased from 4 to 32 years because of the progress in modern medicine.

God? Give me a fucking break.

You started out good here, but contradicted yourself by the end.

I choose to believe that there is a paradise awaiting your cousin where she will no longer suffer. And I wish her health and happiness until she reaches it. My daughter's friend developed meningitis a few days after Christmas and died a few weeks later. It was a community tragedy and the effect was devastating on the kids who knew and loved Cheyenne. I have given this a lot of thought in the months since it happened. People talk about how cruel a God is that would take a child so young and full of hope and promise, and I certainly understand and agree with that. There's another part of me that asks another question, though. Should we be angry at God for taking Cheyenne away, or be thankful that he shared her with us for 13 years? I cannot begin to imagine the pain of a mother (or father) in losing a child to death, but the fact that a parent can continue to hold onto their faith during such a time is a good thing. If that 'fantasy' helps that parent feel comforted that their beloved child is not simply rotting away in a wooden or metal box somewhere in the ground, I'm all for it. I happen to believe it is much more than a fantasy though.

A few years ago my son's friend was found to have an aneurysm on the base of his brain/spinal cord. They thought is was actually a congenital condition that they found by accident after a football injury led him to having a CT scan. Over the next few months, though, he began having symptoms related to this, and the neurosurgeons at the UVa medical center felt he needed surgery. It became so bad that they had to operate on an emergent basis, so he spent his Christmas in the hospital. We went to the hospital to be with the family on the day of surgery. I knew it would be a long and complicated procedure (they were told he would almost definitely come out of it with physical or cognitive deficits, and quite likely both, if he made it through the procedure at all) so I didn't bother going over before the surgery began. However, when we walked into the surgical waiting room, his grandmother stood up and hugged me, saying that he was gonna be fine. When the doctors went in, they found that the aneurysm had somehow clotted itself off and was no longer a threat. It would simply dissolve over time. The doctors at this very presitgious hospital had NO explanation for this, and in fact called it "a Christmas miracle".

Try telling either one of those kids' parents that God doesn't exist. He doesn't always give us the answers we want, nor does he explain everything for our mortal minds to grasp. Choose to believe or not believe. I won't insult you for it. It's your eternal soul that is at risk.

[BobbyinTN]

Guys and gals, Parfait is right about this and at least understand that whether you aree with anything else he says or not.
America was not "founded" on Christianity. Sure, a couple of the "Founding Fathers" were Christians, but nothing like the Christians you see today and remember, they left England to get away from religious persecution and being told how to worship. That last thing they'd want or do is to force people to believe as they did.




Quoting the founding fathers is a good thing too IF you do it with dates, and you'll find that most of the agnostic, theist, atheist quotes come after being here for a while and some of the atheist quotes happened in private, because they knew even back that that religion was a good way to control the little man, the lesser minded as they thought men who were not of nobelity were. So in public speeches, it was GOD this and GOD that, in private, it was "those idiots will believe anything if we day God wants it".



Check this page out:



http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html




It should enlighten you a little.

[BobbyinTN]

The strangest thing about this whole debate is the Christians getting so upset and mad enough to threaten and curse and do everything opposite of what the man called Jesus would do.


If someone questions me and I know I'm right, I leave it.

It would seem your faith would be enough for you to not bother with people who don't believe, but I believe there's doubt in the minds of everyone who says they "believe" and that's why they get so upset.

That's the whole mess some Christians or Xtians are causing in America right now. They have so little faith in their God, even when they claim they have lots of faith, they still want to force laws to reflect their religious views and they think everyone should believe as they do. It hypocritical and really goes against what Jesus tried to teach.

And they always forget the two greatest laws given by Jesus.

Jesus Christ answers for us. When asked the question, "Which is the greatest commandment in the law?" he answered: "'You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets." (Matt. 22:35-40, NW)

[StevePerryHair]

The strangest thing about this whole debate is the Christians getting so upset and mad enough to threaten and curse and do everything opposite of what the man called Jesus would do.


If someone questions me and I know I'm right, I leave it.

It would seem your faith would be enough for you to not bother with people who don't believe, but I believe there's doubt in the minds of everyone who says they "believe" and that's why they get so upset.

That's the whole mess some Christians or Xtians are causing in America right now. They have so little faith in their God, even when they claim they have lots of faith, they still want to force laws to reflect their religious views and they think everyone should believe as they do. It hypocritical and really goes against what Jesus tried to teach.

And they always forget the two greatest laws given by Jesus.

Jesus Christ answers for us. When asked the question, "Which is the greatest commandment in the law?" he answered: "'You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets." (Matt. 22:35-40, NW)

I really don't think anyone here is mad. I know I for one am not. I don't think any of my posts were disrepectful either. Well, maybe to Parfait, but the problem with him was never about his belief at all. He just thinks he "proved" something to us and we can't prove back and he's proved nothing. Only that he is arrogant enough to say that a christian person makes him sick. See, that is the difference. I know there are many board members silent, not posting here, who probably feel just like Parfait, as far as not believing there is a God. But they aren't speaking up. I really feel that we are all responsible for our own selves. We are all products of our environments and we all have our reasons for what we believe or don't believe. And that is fine. It's when you feel attacked for your belief, or you are called stupid for believing in what Parfait would call a "fairy tale" that people become defensive. That is a normal human reaction when being attacked. To defend the honor of what you believe in. That is all you are seeing.

And by the way, I pray for my friends, Christians, non-christians, and athiests. I don't care who they are. I still love them.

[Saint John]

Three friends -- two straight guys and a gay guy -- and their significant others were on a cruise. A tidal wave came up and swamped the ship; they all drowned, and next thing you know, they're standing before St. Peter.

First came one of the straight guys and his wife. St. Peter shook his head sadly. "I can't let you in. You loved money too much. You loved it so much, you even married a woman named Penny."

Then came the second straight guy. "Sorry, can't let you in, either. You loved food too much. You loved to eat so much, you even married a woman named Candy!"

The gay guy turned to his boyfriend and whispered nervously, "It doesn't look good, Dick."

[Behshad]

Three friends -- two straight guys and a gay guy -- and their significant others were on a cruise. A tidal wave came up and swamped the ship; they all drowned, and next thing you know, they're standing before St. Peter.

First came one of the straight guys and his wife. St. Peter shook his head sadly. "I can't let you in. You loved money too much. You loved it so much, you even married a woman named Penny."

Then came the second straight guy. "Sorry, can't let you in, either. You loved food too much. You loved to eat so much, you even married a woman named Candy!"

The gay guy turned to his boyfriend and whispered nervously, "It doesn't look good, Dick."

[S2M]

I think most people that believe in god do so because they view the world/universe as a complex entity that must have been 'designed' by some otherwordly intelligence:

a) The universe is a complex construct

b) The design of any human construct is the effect of having been made by an intelligent being.

c) Like effects have like causes

Therefore...the design of the universe is the effect of an intelligent creator...


I think the above syllogism correctly sums up religious logic as to the origin of the universe....

[artist4perry]

I think most people that believe in god do so because they view the world/universe as a complex entity that must have been 'designed' by some otherwordly intelligence:

a) The universe is a complex construct

b) The design of any human construct is the effect of having been made by an intelligent being.

c) Like effects have like causes

Therefore...the design of the universe is the effect of an intelligent creator...


I think the above syllogism correctly sums up religious logic as to the origin of the universe....

Pretty good S2m! That is part of it. No Bobby, no one that I know is really mad. I just don't like being called stupid, hypocryte, or having my ability to do my job come into question just because I believe in God. People of faith can be of any profession. Sometimes it enhances your job, because you feel the desire to help, love, and care for others. Christians, and I mean ones who live by loving tenents of God, make good teachers, doctors, and nurses........etc.

Now before anyone misunderstands, people that are non christians can be caring in these professions too. But faith can also be a plus. I have not felt the need to convert anyone here. I and others on this board who have spoken about their faith for the most part I believe are just discussing the matter. I am not trying to make anyone see my point of view and make them change. But just as I am not trying to make anyone see my point. Just sharing a view, like you have!

[donnaplease]

Guys and gals, Parfait is right about this and at least understand that whether you aree with anything else he says or not.
America was not "founded" on Christianity. Sure, a couple of the "Founding Fathers" were Christians, but nothing like the Christians you see today and remember, they left England to get away from religious persecution and being told how to worship. That last thing they'd want or do is to force people to believe as they did.

Quoting the founding fathers is a good thing too IF you do it with dates, and you'll find that most of the agnostic, theist, atheist quotes come after being here for a while and some of the atheist quotes happened in private, because they knew even back that that religion was a good way to control the little man, the lesser minded as they thought men who were not of nobelity were. So in public speeches, it was GOD this and GOD that, in private, it was "those idiots will believe anything if we day God wants it".

Check this page out:

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

It should enlighten you a little.

Parfait proved nothing, and I will never agree with or accept what he has said here. You guys are trying to force a square peg into a round hole, and it just doesn't fit. So, tell me oh learned one, which of the 3 ships did George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and the others come over here on? You do know we were here more than 200 years before the revolutionary war took place, right?

You are right that is seems that in drafting the words of the founding documents that it was clear that no mention of a 'state' religion was desired. That did not then nor does it now mean that they didn't feel God's place in the creation of this country. It's evident all around us. Wording on our money, the use of a bible to swear in the president, the Pledge of Allegiance, etc.

I have no interest in reading your atheist website. I cited a govenment website that documented the history of christianity in our early government, and that's all the proof I need to see.

[donnaplease]

The strangest thing about this whole debate is the Christians getting so upset and mad enough to threaten and curse and do everything opposite of what the man called Jesus would do.

If someone questions me and I know I'm right, I leave it.

It would seem your faith would be enough for you to not bother with people who don't believe, but I believe there's doubt in the minds of everyone who says they "believe" and that's why they get so upset.

That's the whole mess some Christians or Xtians are causing in America right now. They have so little faith in their God, even when they claim they have lots of faith, they still want to force laws to reflect their religious views and they think everyone should believe as they do. It hypocritical and really goes against what Jesus tried to teach.

And they always forget the two greatest laws given by Jesus.

Jesus Christ answers for us. When asked the question, "Which is the greatest commandment in the law?" he answered: "'You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets." (Matt. 22:35-40, NW)

Who is trying to force a law to reflect a religious view? It's your 'freethinker' friends who are trying to have laws changed. Can't pray in school, and now there's a school that won't even recite the Pledge of Allegiance... Take In God We Trust off our money, because they have to use it to buy stuff and in doing so they think they're supporting God. Senior citizens can't say a blessing before a meal because the meal is in part financed with government funding...

While it's true that some folks out there are the extreme fringe, most of us just want to continue in the path that we have known, without getting our rights trampled on. We're not fighting to change things, we're fighting the change that a few nutjobs think they have the right to demand.

[BobbyinTN]

The strangest thing about this whole debate is the Christians getting so upset and mad enough to threaten and curse and do everything opposite of what the man called Jesus would do.

If someone questions me and I know I'm right, I leave it.

It would seem your faith would be enough for you to not bother with people who don't believe, but I believe there's doubt in the minds of everyone who says they "believe" and that's why they get so upset.

That's the whole mess some Christians or Xtians are causing in America right now. They have so little faith in their God, even when they claim they have lots of faith, they still want to force laws to reflect their religious views and they think everyone should believe as they do. It hypocritical and really goes against what Jesus tried to teach.

And they always forget the two greatest laws given by Jesus.

Jesus Christ answers for us. When asked the question, "Which is the greatest commandment in the law?" he answered: "'You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets." (Matt. 22:35-40, NW)

Who is trying to force a law to reflect a religious view? It's your 'freethinker' friends who are trying to have laws changed. Can't pray in school, and now there's a school that won't even recite the Pledge of Allegiance... Take In God We Trust off our money, because they have to use it to buy stuff and in doing so they think they're supporting God. Senior citizens can't say a blessing before a meal because the meal is in part financed with government funding...

While it's true that some folks out there are the extreme fringe, most of us just want to continue in the path that we have known, without getting our rights trampled on. We're not fighting to change things, we're fighting the change that a few nutjobs think they have the right to demand.

Donna , PLEASE!

Do you think every child in a public school is Christian? Do you think every child should be forced to pray a prayer that doesn’t adhere to their religious beliefs? And you ask me who is forcing this bullshit on others?


If you want your child to pray, send him to church, school is for learning, not for religion.

The rest of what you assert is simply scare tactics and conjecture.

Why is it so important to have “in God we trust” on money? Will it spend any differently?

And it’s funny you say you don’t want YOUR rights trampled on, but you want to be able to trample on anyone else’s that doesn’t believe in Christianity. What you’re really saying is, “if you can’t tell people how to live and how to worship, your rights are being “trampled on”. Is that it?



There are other religions in America. Christians of all people should understand that and stop trying to force everyone else into Christianity. It’s only going to go bad for the Christian if they keep it up.

[BobbyinTN]

Exactly how it is.

[artist4perry]

Exactly how it is.

O.K. Bobby when was the last time I nailed you to anything...................Wait a minute............that could be taken very wrong..............LOL! Oh well, we both know I am not your type. Kitten if I met you I would seriously give you a big hug. You really have a whole nutshell look at christians. We all fit in a peg for you. One where supposedly we would all hate you. No way Jose'.

I don't care if we pray in schools or not. But I do get irritated by the folks so sensitive that the dollar bill would burn a hole in their hand because it bears the traditional and historical mark of "In God We Trust." You are not converted or convicted by these words.

A cross on an official seal like the one that used to be on the LA,California seal is just a symbol showing that the missions were part of the founding of LOS ANGELES. They were teeny tiny. Hardly even visable. Some intolerant shmuck had taken LA, California, wich by the way is already in financial ruin, to court to have them removed. Do you realize what it cost to have it removed from every seal? Do you know how much it would cost our nation to have it removed from every document, every dollar, every statue.........etc.? Would it truly cause an athiest to burst into flames and die a horrid death if it remained right where it is, as a historical word? Why do we need to change history for some hysterical person and cost ourselves billions because they cannot tolerate the word God........a word that they say is meaningless to them, because it gets them off on tangents?

I will tell you why.........because they would like nothing more than to obliterate the name of God from the face of the earth. That would include churches being able to put a cross in front of a church, being able to say a prayer for your family in a restaraunt, or to be able to mention God in any public place. There is a movement in some countries to have anyone believing in God to be found mentally incompetent. Why? Because they hate religion and anyone who would believe in it.

[StevePerryHair]

First of all Bobby, those things people are trying to change, involve God, not Christ. You are lumping all use of the word God into Christianity. Second of all, aren't you the one who mentioned that when people don't feel like you about something, you just move on? You didn't do that here either. And you didn't in the great gay rights debates either

[S2M]

I think most people that believe in god do so because they view the world/universe as a complex entity that must have been 'designed' by some otherwordly intelligence:

a) The universe is a complex construct

b) The design of any human construct is the effect of having been made by an intelligent being.

c) Like effects have like causes

Therefore...the design of the universe is the effect of an intelligent creator...


I think the above syllogism correctly sums up religious logic as to the origin of the universe....

Pretty good S2m! That is part of it. No Bobby, no one that I know is really mad. I just don't like being called stupid, hypocryte, or having my ability to do my job come into question just because I believe in God. People of faith can be of any profession. Sometimes it enhances your job, because you feel the desire to help, love, and care for others. Christians, and I mean ones who live by loving tenents of God, make good teachers, doctors, and nurses........etc.

Now before anyone misunderstands, people that are non christians can be caring in these professions too. But faith can also be a plus. I have not felt the need to convert anyone here. I and others on this board who have spoken about their faith for the most part I believe are just discussing the matter. I am not trying to make anyone see my point of view and make them change. But just as I am not trying to make anyone see my point. Just sharing a view, like you have!

Oh...I don't believe the universe was created by intelligent creators....I just constructed a logically sound syllogism to illustrate the religious POV.

In fact I believe the exact opposite in regards to coming to that conclusion...Logically, no sound argument can be made for intelligent design of the universe. I would argue that a person would have to have experience with the creation of universes to justify ANY cause about ANY causes of any universe. And due to the fact that no one has such experience, lacking adequate justification for claiming that the universe has an intelligent cause...

[steveo777]

The strangest thing about this whole debate is the Christians getting so upset and mad enough to threaten and curse and do everything opposite of what the man called Jesus would do.

If someone questions me and I know I'm right, I leave it.

It would seem your faith would be enough for you to not bother with people who don't believe, but I believe there's doubt in the minds of everyone who says they "believe" and that's why they get so upset.

That's the whole mess some Christians or Xtians are causing in America right now. They have so little faith in their God, even when they claim they have lots of faith, they still want to force laws to reflect their religious views and they think everyone should believe as they do. It hypocritical and really goes against what Jesus tried to teach.

And they always forget the two greatest laws given by Jesus.

Jesus Christ answers for us. When asked the question, "Which is the greatest commandment in the law?" he answered: "'You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.' This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this: 'You must love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets." (Matt. 22:35-40, NW)

Who is trying to force a law to reflect a religious view? It's your 'freethinker' friends who are trying to have laws changed. Can't pray in school, and now there's a school that won't even recite the Pledge of Allegiance... Take In God We Trust off our money, because they have to use it to buy stuff and in doing so they think they're supporting God. Senior citizens can't say a blessing before a meal because the meal is in part financed with government funding...

While it's true that some folks out there are the extreme fringe, most of us just want to continue in the path that we have known, without getting our rights trampled on. We're not fighting to change things, we're fighting the change that a few nutjobs think they have the right to demand.

Donna , PLEASE!

Do you think every child in a public school is Christian? Do you think every child should be forced to pray a prayer that doesn’t adhere to their religious beliefs? And you ask me who is forcing this bullshit on others?


If you want your child to pray, send him to church, school is for learning, not for religion.

The rest of what you assert is simply scare tactics and conjecture.

Why is it so important to have “in God we trust” on money? Will it spend any differently?

And it’s funny you say you don’t want YOUR rights trampled on, but you want to be able to trample on anyone else’s that doesn’t believe in Christianity. What you’re really saying is, “if you can’t tell people how to live and how to worship, your rights are being “trampled on”. Is that it?



There are other religions in America. Christians of all people should understand that and stop trying to force everyone else into Christianity. It’s only going to go bad for the Christian if they keep it up.

We aren't....we're trying to uphold our American values and people who want to undermine our American values should get the fuck out of our great country.

[BobbyinTN]

Exactly how it is.

O.K. Bobby when was the last time I nailed you to anything...................Wait a minute............that could be taken very wrong..............LOL! Oh well, we both know I am not your type. Kitten if I met you I would seriously give you a big hug. You really have a whole nutshell look at christians. We all fit in a peg for you. One where supposedly we would all hate you. No way Jose'.

I don't care if we pray in schools or not. But I do get irritated by the folks so sensitive that the dollar bill would burn a hole in their hand because it bears the traditional and historical mark of "In God We Trust." You are not converted or convicted by these words.

A cross on an official seal like the one that used to be on the LA,California seal is just a symbol showing that the missions were part of the founding of LOS ANGELES. They were teeny tiny. Hardly even visable. Some intolerant shmuck had taken LA, California, wich by the way is already in financial ruin, to court to have them removed. Do you realize what it cost to have it removed from every seal? Do you know how much it would cost our nation to have it removed from every document, every dollar, every statue.........etc.? Would it truly cause an athiest to burst into flames and die a horrid death if it remained right where it is, as a historical word? Why do we need to change history for some hysterical person and cost ourselves billions because they cannot tolerate the word God........a word that they say is meaningless to them, because it gets them off on tangents?

I will tell you why.........because they would like nothing more than to obliterate the name of God from the face of the earth. That would include churches being able to put a cross in front of a church, being able to say a prayer for your family in a restaraunt, or to be able to mention God in any public place. There is a movement in some countries to have anyone believing in God to be found mentally incompetent. Why? Because they hate religion and anyone who would believe in it.

You are such a sweetheart and you're right, I do jump to conclusions and lump people and I'm trying to be better about that and I hope you will forgive me for that. I am just so amazed at the mentality of those who do believe, because I'm gay I should not be entitled to certain liberties or have the right to marry the person I love, the person that I've been with for almost 18 years. And it's so easy to "lump" all those Christians into one category when the majority of them are voting against me. Hopefully you and others will change that, but for now, I see what I see and it ain't pretty.

And I will try to explain this the best that I understand it. It's not the word God that some people are offended by, it's the definition that the majority of Christians want everyone else to believe. There are a group of people that would love nothing more than to force everyone in the United States to worship and proclaim themselves Christians and even more than the word God on money and in culture, this land is about FREEDOM, FREEDOM to choose what God we believe in or to choose to believe in no God if we wish.


I could ask you the same question you asked but in reverse, how is it gonna hurt Christians if the word God is taken from money or from the Pledge? You do realize that God was only inserted in the Pledge in the last 50 years, right?



I’d return that hug and would appreciate it more than anything. I love good people. I want to believe in the best in people, but when I come on these forums and I see the horrible things that are said, and then defended by people as “jokes” or I’m told, “don’t be so serious”. It’s easy to say that when you’ve never been discriminated against.


I’ve had a wonderful life, I’ve never been beaten up for being gay, (btw, I can fight, and I don’t fight fair. LOL) and I’ve had wonderful friends and family that have supported me, so it’s even more of a surprise to me when I see the bigotry out there and listen, what has been said to me and about me on these forums is reason enough to never trust a stranger or believe in the good of men.


I was told recently by one of the members on here that since he couldn’t tease me about being gay, he just wouldn’t bother talking to me. I wonder if belittling homosexuals and making jokes is the only way that person could relate to me? And why would he think that was okay or that I should put up with it?



There is no hatred for all Christians where I’m coming from, just the ones who believe they are right and everyone else is wrong. I hope you’re not one of those people, because I find it almost impossible to dislike you.

[BobbyinTN]

We aren't....we're trying to uphold our American values and people who want to undermine our American values should get the fuck out of our great country.

But what about the Americans that don't agree with you. Aren't they entitled to their beliefs and to live free of the religious bullshit?

[BobbyinTN]

First of all Bobby, those things people are trying to change, involve God, not Christ. You are lumping all use of the word God into Christianity. Second of all, aren't you the one who mentioned that when people don't feel like you about something, you just move on? You didn't do that here either. And you didn't in the great gay rights debates either

This is a forum sweetie, not real life. In my everyday life I don't deal with bigots and assholes who think their way is the only way. I sometimes enjoy these debates, but lately it seems people get nastier and nastier just because it is the internet.

However, in my everyday life, I don't tolerate Christians who believe they have it all figured out and everyone else if fucked. That's just crazy.

[steveo777]

We aren't....we're trying to uphold our American values and people who want to undermine our American values should get the fuck out of our great country.

But what about the Americans that don't agree with you. Aren't they entitled to their beliefs and to live free of the religious bullshit?

I don't have a problem with people who simply don't believe. What have a problem with is those who try and take it away from those of us who do believe and have faith. The moral fiber in this country continues to slip lower and lower and I wonder why sometimes.
It almost seems like atheism has become a religion in itself.

[BobbyinTN]

We aren't....we're trying to uphold our American values and people who want to undermine our American values should get the fuck out of our great country.

But what about the Americans that don't agree with you. Aren't they entitled to their beliefs and to live free of the religious bullshit?

I don't have a problem with people who simply don't believe. What have a problem with is those who try and take it away from those of us who do believe and have faith. The moral fiber in this country continues to slip lower and lower and I wonder why sometimes.
It almost seems like atheism has become a religion in itself.

You know what I think man? I think extreme atheism is just as bad as extreme Christianity. I don't know if there's a God or not, but I do know I'm smart enough to know that until it's proven either way, to say I know for sure is stupid. (that's just me, I'm not calling anyone else stupid)

I respect those people who have faith and believe in God, but for them to tell me they know for sure, is just as ignorant as the atheist who says he knows for sure there isn't one.





The best we can do is hope and live our lives the best we can and be good to others, JUST IN CASE the big guy is there and even if he isn't we haven't caused any harm.




I think people get too caught up in the Bible and the "teachings" and forget that if there is a God, he's probably ingrained in our DNA everything we need to know. Also the past has no place in the present and moving forward can never be a bad thing. Too much bullshit in every day life to worry about what has been, we only have right now and hopefully tomorrow, so to stress ourselves out over the bullshit that "could happen" is ridiculous and a waste of good energy.

[StevePerryHair]

First of all Bobby, those things people are trying to change, involve God, not Christ. You are lumping all use of the word God into Christianity. Second of all, aren't you the one who mentioned that when people don't feel like you about something, you just move on? You didn't do that here either. And you didn't in the great gay rights debates either

This is a forum sweetie, not real life. In my everyday life I don't deal with bigots and assholes who think their way is the only way. I sometimes enjoy these debates, but lately it seems people get nastier and nastier just because it is the internet.

However, in my everyday life, I don't tolerate Christians who believe they have it all figured out and everyone else if fucked. That's just crazy.

Well, it might be a forum, but there are still real people behind these keyboards and monitors I don't think this thread has gotten as nasty as some. It's mostly been discussion, other than Parfait's arrogance being pointed out ONCE AGAIN

And I will be the first to say I DO NOT have it all figured out by a long shot! And I am most likely just as fucked as the rest of the world possibly I have a hard time with the way you generalize Christians! I think you are talking about a certain type of Christian.

[artist4perry]

Exactly how it is.

O.K. Bobby when was the last time I nailed you to anything...................Wait a minute............that could be taken very wrong..............LOL! Oh well, we both know I am not your type. Kitten if I met you I would seriously give you a big hug. You really have a whole nutshell look at christians. We all fit in a peg for you. One where supposedly we would all hate you. No way Jose'.

I don't care if we pray in schools or not. But I do get irritated by the folks so sensitive that the dollar bill would burn a hole in their hand because it bears the traditional and historical mark of "In God We Trust." You are not converted or convicted by these words.

A cross on an official seal like the one that used to be on the LA,California seal is just a symbol showing that the missions were part of the founding of LOS ANGELES. They were teeny tiny. Hardly even visable. Some intolerant shmuck had taken LA, California, wich by the way is already in financial ruin, to court to have them removed. Do you realize what it cost to have it removed from every seal? Do you know how much it would cost our nation to have it removed from every document, every dollar, every statue.........etc.? Would it truly cause an athiest to burst into flames and die a horrid death if it remained right where it is, as a historical word? Why do we need to change history for some hysterical person and cost ourselves billions because they cannot tolerate the word God........a word that they say is meaningless to them, because it gets them off on tangents?

I will tell you why.........because they would like nothing more than to obliterate the name of God from the face of the earth. That would include churches being able to put a cross in front of a church, being able to say a prayer for your family in a restaraunt, or to be able to mention God in any public place. There is a movement in some countries to have anyone believing in God to be found mentally incompetent. Why? Because they hate religion and anyone who would believe in it.

You are such a sweetheart and you're right, I do jump to conclusions and lump people and I'm trying to be better about that and I hope you will forgive me for that. I am just so amazed at the mentality of those who do believe, because I'm gay I should not be entitled to certain liberties or have the right to marry the person I love, the person that I've been with for almost 18 years. And it's so easy to "lump" all those Christians into one category when the majority of them are voting against me. Hopefully you and others will change that, but for now, I see what I see and it ain't pretty.

And I will try to explain this the best that I understand it. It's not the word God that some people are offended by, it's the definition that the majority of Christians want everyone else to believe. There are a group of people that would love nothing more than to force everyone in the United States to worship and proclaim themselves Christians and even more than the word God on money and in culture, this land is about FREEDOM, FREEDOM to choose what God we believe in or to choose to believe in no God if we wish.


I could ask you the same question you asked but in reverse, how is it gonna hurt Christians if the word God is taken from money or from the Pledge? You do realize that God was only inserted in the Pledge in the last 50 years, right?



I’d return that hug and would appreciate it more than anything. I love good people. I want to believe in the best in people, but when I come on these forums and I see the horrible things that are said, and then defended by people as “jokes” or I’m told, “don’t be so serious”. It’s easy to say that when you’ve never been discriminated against.


I’ve had a wonderful life, I’ve never been beaten up for being gay, (btw, I can fight, and I don’t fight fair. LOL) and I’ve had wonderful friends and family that have supported me, so it’s even more of a surprise to me when I see the bigotry out there and listen, what has been said to me and about me on these forums is reason enough to never trust a stranger or believe in the good of men.


I was told recently by one of the members on here that since he couldn’t tease me about being gay, he just wouldn’t bother talking to me. I wonder if belittling homosexuals and making jokes is the only way that person could relate to me? And why would he think that was okay or that I should put up with it?



There is no hatred for all Christians where I’m coming from, just the ones who believe they are right and everyone else is wrong. I hope you’re not one of those people, because I find it almost impossible to dislike you.

Awwwwwwwwww................ Bobby all I am saying is like when I say if someone I care about says I am praying for you. And Bobby I would say a prayer in your behalf if I felt you needed one.........sickness, sadness, etc. Because it is my way of caring for someone. A hug extended from me to the person. In God We Trust. Not necessarily a dangerous statement............Those who believe in a Creator whoever and whatever that may be wishing care on the country. A prayer as it were. With no affiliation to any specific religion. I say that God loves everyone. No exclusions. We all sin........this is fact. I am not your judge. This is fact. And I don't want to put myself in place of judgement over your eternal soul. That is God's place, and I will not assume his role.

But it is part of our history. It is shameful that there is a group who wish to re-write history.......but from history 50 years or not it must be taught. Without teaching the whole truth and nothing but the truth, we risk repeating mistakes of the past. If we don't teach about people like Hitler, people might not see the start of a dangerous regime. The fact that our fore fathers without establishing a country wide or state religion, (everyone must be members of the Church of England, one reason why we fled the country.....etc.) used the first ammendment to freely express religion for a kind thought to our country. In God We Trust. One nation under God...........God please bless this nation. Not if you say these words or express this thought you will be forced to believe in God. It is a type of prayer for the country's good. I find it comforting even if it was not established by my religion.