Musicians accuse Bon Jovi of stealing demo tapes...

by **S2M** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:13 am

http://www.sleazeroxx.com/news08/0810bon.shtml

ANOTHER MUSICIAN ACCUSES BON JOVI OF PLAGIARISM:

August 10, 2008

After posting a report by Chris Faraone of Boston Magazine in which Bart Steele accused Bon Jovi of ripping off one of his songs, Sleaze Roxx received an email from former Cats In Boots and Heavy Bones vocalist Joel Ellis claiming that a similar thing happened to him. Joel's email can be read in its entirety below:

"It was back in the 1980's when Denny Holan and I were recording our pre-production demos for Atlantic Records with Merri Hoaxx. We had just finished tracking a studio session that included our original song "I'll Be There For You". We left Paramount Studios in Hollywood with a cassette tape of rough mixes and headed straight for The Rainbow Bar & Grill on Sunset. When we got there we gave the tape to Michael to put on the Bar's sound system, it was the classic "Is It Worthy" test for demos and mixes that a lot of bands used to gage their nights work. We'd always pop on the song and listen for the sounds then we would watch to see if people were digging the songs. The place was definitely digging the songs that night.

I ran into Sam Kinison who asked me to come back to his table and hang out. So while our tape was playing, we sat at the table in the back with Sam, Jon Bon Jovi, Peter Aykroyd (Dan's brother) and Doc McGee, etc... Johnny gave us this line of BS that if we gave him this tape he would take it to his uncle at Polydor Records and try to get us out on tour with him.

I somehow felt like I was going to regret that, but we agreed to take a chance and trust him, so we gave Jon Bon Jovi the cassette that night and we never heard back from him. A short time later we heard the chorus for our song "I'll be theeerrre for youuuu" as JBJs next big hit. My manager at the time wanted to sue his ass but we were doing well and were very busy with all the Atlantic developments going on that I didn't want to cause problems for our momentum that we had going at the time. I hated when people would note the resemblance between Jon Bon Jovi and me at the time and I didn't want to give the world any other reasons to compare me to the Golden Boy Johnny. We were in no way similar to each other and strongly resented any comparison...I wasn't pop singer, I was a rock singer and I wasn't a self righteous frosted hair perm boy with relatives who paved my way so I could steal songs from real artists and get rich off of ripping them off. I was a self made true rocker from the streets to the stage to the studio to the stores, with no help from daddy's friends & relatives and we rocked without the posing. Whatever successes or short comings I had were of my own making, but it was real. So I didn't care about that song.

Later on during the Heavy Bones days, I was dating a girl named Lehua Reid, who was previously engaged to Richie Sambora. While she lived at Richie's house, she told me about how she remembered the nights that Jon Bon Jovi and Richie Sambora would sit at Richie's piano with boxes full of tapes they had collected from trusting aspiring musicians who trusted them with their creations for a shot at success, how they would play through tape after tape looking for catchy songs to rip off all the while laughing at the suckers who gave them their tapes. When she heard my demo recording of "I'll Be There For You" she sat back, eyes wide open, saying "NO WAY!!! This is YOU??", and went on to tell me about the night that they were so excited to be ripping off this song and how Johnny had always wanted an excuse to rip off John Lennon for his vocal in the verse of "Don't Let Me Down" by the Beatles. They worked on that song for hours playing my demo over and over again and it stuck in her head.

Of course I had already known where their recent huge hit single had come from but hearing her tell that story was like salt in the wound...I've always felt that people should know about this and I still have the original demo. If anyone in the world wants to hear it I'll be happy to put an Mpeg up on my website so they can hear it too.

I wonder how many other guys are out there right now feeling the same burn from the Golden Boy Jon Bon Jovi and his trusty side kick Richie Rich."

Sincerely,
Joel Ellis of Merri Hoaxx, Cats In Boots and Heavy Bones.

Ted Poley(then a drummer for Prophet), claims that Jon stole the opening for Wanted Dead or Alive' from a Prophet song called, 'Slow Down' from their demo tape.

by **Jana** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:17 am

Wow.

by **Rockindeano** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:21 am

Pretty compelling evidence.

And to think people here don't believe this band lip syncs?

by **AlteredDNA** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:23 am

Don't necessarily doubt this, but...

A short time later we heard the chorus for our song "I'll be theeerrre for youuuu" as JBJs next big hit. My manager at the time wanted to sue his ass but we were doing well and were very busy with all the Atlantic developments going on that I didn't want to cause problems for our momentum that we had going at the time.

by **S2M** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:25 am

AlteredDNA wrote:Don't necessarily doubt this, but...

A short time later we heard the chorus for our song "I'll be theeerrre for youuuu" as JBJs next big hit. My manager at the time wanted to sue his ass but we were doing well and were very busy with all the Atlantic developments going on that I didn't want to cause problems for our momentum that we had going at the time.

Track down the Prophet song, 'Slow Down'.....compare it to 'Wanted Dead or Alive', then get back to me.....

I have both right here.....if only there was a way to post this Prophet song...... :evil:

by **AlteredDNA** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:28 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:
AlteredDNA wrote:Don't necessarily doubt this, but...

A short time later we heard the chorus for our song "I'll be theeerrre for youuuu" as JBJs next big hit. My manager at the time wanted to sue his ass but we were doing well and were very busy with all the Atlantic developments going on that I didn't want to cause problems for our momentum that we had going at the time.

Track down the Prophet song, 'Slow Down'.....compare it to 'Wanted Dead or Alive', then get back to me.....

I have both right here.....if only there was a way to post this Prophet song......

I said I didn't necessarily doubt it, but the fact that they were "doing well and very busy" and decided not sue, hmm...

by **Don** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:28 am

And he waited until 20 years later, well beyond the 3 year statute of limitation on copyright infringement to share the truth with everyone? Whatever.

by **Rockindeano** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:30 am

Gunbot wrote:And he waited until 20 years later, well beyond the 3 year statute of limitation on copyright infringement to share the truth with everyone? Whatever.

Look, I know you are a BJ guy, and I use to be, and now on the fence, but this is some serious evidence/questioning. He has even taken the whole Jersey thing from Springsteen and incorporated that into his image. Something just doesn't jive. Perhaps he and Ritchie think they are too big to be questioned? Look at what happened to the megastar band Journey?

S2M, can you post this Prophet song on Yousendit so we can listen to it?

by **S2M** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:34 am

Rockindeano wrote:
Gunbot wrote:And he waited until 20 years later, well beyond the 3 year statute of limitation on copyright infringement to share the truth with everyone? Whatever.

Look, I know you are a BJ guy, and I use to be, and now on the fence, but this is some serious evidence/questioning. He has even taken the whole Jersey thing from Springsteen and incorporated that into his image. Something just doesn't jive. Perhaps he and Ritchie think they are too big to be questioned? Look at what happened to the megastar band Journey?

S2M, can you post this Prophet song on Yousendit so we can listen to it?

I will try....I'm actually very ignorant when it comes to Megupload, and yousendit.

by **Rockindeano** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:38 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
Gunbot wrote:And he waited until 20 years later, well beyond the 3 year statute of limitation on copyright infringement to share the truth with everyone? Whatever.

Look, I know you are a BJ guy, and I use to be, and now on the fence, but this is some serious evidence/questioning. He has even taken the whole Jersey thing from Springsteen and incorporated that into his image. Something just doesn't jive. Perhaps he and Ritchie think they are too big to be questioned? Look at what happened to the megastar band Journey?

S2M, can you post this Prophet song on Yousendit so we can listen to it?

I will try....I'm actually very ignorant when it comes to Megupload, and yousendit.

Just think, you could Pioneer the Jovigate movement with your evidence and bring all this new traffic to MR.

by **Jana** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:46 am

Rockindeano wrote:
Gunbot wrote:And he waited until 20 years later, well beyond the 3 year statute of limitation on copyright infringement to share the truth with everyone? Whatever.

Look, I know you are a BJ guy, and I used to be, and now on the fence, but this is some serious evidence/questioning. He has even taken the whole Jersey thing from Springsteen and incorporated that into his image. Something just doesn't jive. Perhaps he and Ritchie think they are too big to be questioned? Look at what happened to the megastar band Journey?

S2M, can you post this Prophet song on Yousendit so we can listen to it?

Too much personal info, Dean. :lol:

by **Don** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:47 am

I'm not doubting they have plagiarized, as has a lot of acts. It didn't hurt Coldplay at all. What ever they paid out to Satriani, they made 10 times over from the rest of their promotions.

For this to be brought up 20 years later just sounds lame to me, especially the excuses why he didn't take legal action.

by **S2M** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:51 am

Prophet - Slow Down

http://www.yousendit.com/download/MVNjc2ZJYXk1UjUzZUE9PQ

by **Rockindeano** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:53 am

Oh Good Lord. COMPLETE ripoff.

Wanted Dead or Alive was ripped from this prophet tune.

by **StoneCold** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:53 am

Jana wrote:
Rockindeano wrote:
Gunbot wrote:And he waited until 20 years later, well beyond the 3 year statute of limitation on copyright infringement to share the truth with everyone? Whatever.

Look, I know you are a BJ guy, and I used to be

Too much personal info, Dean.

I'm a bjG guy. :wink:

Only question remaining, does BonJovi rate a 5 dollar concert?

by **bluejeangirl76** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:54 am

by **S2M** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:55 am

Rockindeano wrote:Oh Good Lord. COMPLETE ripoff.

Wanted Dead or Alive was ripped from this prophet tune.

Are you being sarcastic? Cause it is only the intro that is in question, and it is a bit of a stretch....

by **Rockindeano** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:58 am

Dead serious. Blatant rip.

by **Voyager** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:59 am

Shit happens all the time. The idea for the Windows operating system on the computer you are (probably) currently on was stolen by Bill Gates from Steve Jobs. Life goes on.

by **Rockindeano** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:02 am

Voyager wrote:Shit happens all the time. The idea for the Windows operating system on the computer you are (probably) currently on was stolen by Bill Gates from Steve Jobs. Life goes on.

Yeah maybe so, but you can't prove it. This is beyond obvious.

by **S2M** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:04 am

Another classic JBJ ripoff:

Heavy Bones - The Hand that Feeds

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=MVNjc2ZLbEpoMlVLSkE9PQ

What Jovi song comes to mind......hmmmmmm?[/url]

by **Michigan Girl** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:07 am

AlteredDNA wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:
AlteredDNA wrote:Don't necessarily doubt this, but...

A short time later we heard the chorus for our song "I'll be theeerrre for youuuu" as JBJs next big hit. My manager at the time wanted to sue his ass but we were doing well and were very busy with all the Atlantic developments going on that I didn't want to cause problems for our momentum that we had going at the time.

Track down the Prophet song, 'Slow Down'.....compare it to 'Wanted Dead or Alive', then get back to me.....

I have both right here.....if only there was a way to post this Prophet song......

I said I didn't necessarily doubt it, but the fact that they were "doing well and very busy" and decided not sue, hmm...

I'm w/you and I am doubting this as a complete story!! :wink:

by **S2M** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:11 am

Michigan Girl wrote:
AlteredDNA wrote:
StocktontoMalone wrote:
AlteredDNA wrote:Don't necessarily doubt this, but...

A short time later we heard the chorus for our song "I'll be theeerrre for youuuu" as JBJs next big hit. My manager at the time wanted to sue his ass but we were doing well and were very busy with all the Atlantic developments going on that I didn't want to cause problems for our momentum that we had going at the time.

Track down the Prophet song, 'Slow Down'.....compare it to 'Wanted Dead or Alive', then get back to me.....

I have both right here.....if only there was a way to post this Prophet song......

I said I didn't necessarily doubt it, but the fact that they were "doing well and very busy" and decided not sue, hmm...

I'm w/you and I am doubting this as a complete story!!

Hopefully, you aren't doubting your ass off! :lol:

DYAO!!!!!

by **S2M** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:16 am

On a similar note:

http://soxanddawgs.com/2008/10/15/bart-steele-speaks-about-lawsuit-against-tbs/

Bart Steele Speaks About Lawsuit Against TBS
October 15th, 2008 by Ian · 2 Comments · Earlier this week our friend Dan over at Red Sox Monster told us about a lawsuit involving Bart Steele of Chelsea, MA in which he was suing Bon Jovi to the tune of $400 billion dollars for stealing his work.

The song in question is the one that TBS is overplaying titled “I Love This Town.” Steele says the song closely mirrors his 2004 song which was an ode to the Red Sox “(Man I Really) Love This Team.” Dan has the details about the songs and also has the background of it as well.

The reason I bring this up is that I was contacted earlier today by Steele himself and he wanted to convey the message that he is not actually directly suing Bon Jovi, the main defendant in the case is Turner Broadcasting Systems. Bon Jovi and the others named are merely co-defendants.

He has been speaking out about this at his blog over at Myspace.com and here is the latest blog post about what is really going on with this lawsuit after the jump.

Let’s set the record straight folks, I’ve liked Bon Jovi since 1985

The media has spun it such that I said Bon Jovi stole my song or lyrics…this is simply not true . The media does this to create a ’story’, I never accused Bon Jovi of stealing lyrics or anything. I’ve been a fan for a long time which is also why this whole situation stinks. I only wanted fair credit and compensation for my work. Unfortunately, I’ve spent my past year learning the in’s and out’s of copyright laws…and they are very VAGUE!!!

Here are a few things you need to understand…copyright law is confusing, complicated, and outdated.

1) Confusing: The issue in this case is not whether both songs sound exactly alike. The issue is whether the whole advertisement (visual images and BJ soundtrack) is derived from my original song or my derivative version.

2) Complicated: There is no clear standard that decides when one artists’ work is so similar to an earlier work that it infringes on that first artist’s work. Rather, the law considers the ‘total concept and feel’ of both works, as well as musical and lyrical similarities. Here we have the added complication of video images suggested by my lyrics and music.

3) Outdated: Using an unknown artist’s work a s a ‘temp track’ to be revised by an established artist has become common practice. Because computers make it so easy to change music, the damage is done (and the derivative version recorded) before anyone notices that they did not start from scratch. This practice usually goes beneath the radar of copyright law…but it does violate the laws protecting an artist’s rights to create (change) and control derivative works.

Again, BJ was most likely used by corporate america and did NOT steal anything. So don’t keep implying that I said that. The most likely scenario is that TBS liked my song and concept of a baseball playoff anthem, made a video to my original song, and thought it would be the perfect medium to ‘deliver their message’. They hired BJ to deliver that message (cause who the hell am I to sell TBS/MLB to the world???). The problem here is that they did not have the right to give BJ the right to do their derivative version of my song, nor to redo the song for commercial purposes. Thus if they gave BJ permission to redo my song, and/or claim they had the rights to it, BJ might be a victim too (they might have used him if they didn’t explain it was an advertisement…rather than just a ‘baseball song’) I am not abusing the court system here. I never wanted to file a lawsuit. I have tried everything else without success…read the letters I sent BJ’s peep’s. To all his fans that have berated me for not solely going after TBS, why don’t you also send him a message to shake my hand and work it out instead. If you read my complaint, I have tried everything to avoid legal action…yet all I received back was stonewalling and threats. The $400 billion number is for ‘wilful’ infringement which is how all the parties seem to have behaved. Innocent infringement in this case is close to $1 billion…I’d like to believe all the parties are innocent, but they have not acted as such. I am more than willing to be reasonable and settle this case out of court but have never had that option…thus here we are today. Please read the case carefully before assuming this is against Bon Jovi…the case is against Turner Broadcasting Systems, BJ and many others are just unfortunate codefendants!!!

Sincerely,
Bart Steele

by **Michigan Girl** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:23 am

I'm becoming a tad more satisfied.... :wink:

by **Duncan** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:28 am

Have you heard Franke & the Knockouts? Not sure of the story behind this, but very similar to She don't Know Me from Bon Jovi's debut. I know Tico Torres was at one time in both bands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig9fKxYaIRA

----------------
Now playing: FRANKE & THE KNOCKOUTS - You Don't Want Me (Like I Want You)

by **brywool** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:57 am

read this years ago...

BJ needs to start stealing some decent lyrics. I've never heard so many cliches in one sitting.

by **Don** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:59 am

brywool wrote:read this years ago...

BJ needs to start stealing some decent lyrics. I've never heard so many cliches in one sitting.

What's funny is Jon and Richie just got inducted into the Songwriters HOF.

by **brywool** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:17 am

Gunbot wrote:
brywool wrote:read this years ago...

BJ needs to start stealing some decent lyrics. I've never heard so many cliches in one sitting.

What's funny is Jon and Richie just got inducted into the Songwriters HOF.

yeah. Richie I like, Jon's lyrics though- CORNIEST crap out there.

by **Saint John** » Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:52 am

StocktontoMalone wrote:Track down the Prophet song, 'Slow Down'.....compare it to 'Wanted Dead or Alive', then get back to me.....

I hate Bon Jovi enough that I'd throw a fucking keg if their tour bus rolled off the earth, and while I heard some similarities in the 2 songs I'm not totally sold on this being "plagarism." I do think they heard this song's intro, developed the concept and made it much, much better. But I don't think that's against the law.

MR

Musicians accuse Bon Jovi of stealing demo tapes...

Musicians accuse Bon Jovi of stealing demo tapes...

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