OFFICIAL DC Studios; "DCU" THREAD

[Monker]

Seems to be helping a lot!

Your boy doesn't need any help killing ticket sales way ahead of time.

"My boy"? LOL. The Guardians movies are the only thing Gunn has done that I even like.

Until recently, you guys had no problem with him at all. There was even a bit of celebrating that he took over the DCU. Perhaps you should read the earliest posts in this thread again.

I just happen to agree with his choices so far...and some, like not moving forward with Black Adam movies. is just common sense Also, you can't kill ticket sales if they take a tax write-off and don't release the films. Would not surprise me at all if that is what happens to Flash and Aquaman, at least. There really is no point in releasing them.

[verslibre]

Until recently, you guys had no problem with him at all.

That's not true at all. I hated GOTGV2 and said plenty about that. In fact, you and I had a back-and-forth about it ages ago, but I think you've been hangin' with your buddy Al Zheimer.

Also, you can't kill ticket sales if they take a tax write-off and don't release the films.

I was referring to future films (not yet made), but I thought that was plenty obvious. I guess not!

[Monker]

Until recently, you guys had no problem with him at all.

That's not true at all. I hated GOTGV2 and said plenty about that. In fact, you and I had a back-and-forth about it ages ago, but I think you've been hangin' with your buddy Al Zheimer.

Also, you can't kill ticket sales if they take a tax write-off and don't release the films.

I was referring to future films (not yet made), but I thought that was plenty obvious. I guess not!

There has been no criticism of Gunn after he joined the DC clan after being fired from Disney, from The Suicide Squad on...until now...which what I have been saying.

If by "future films" you mean after 2023, I don't think anybody can guess how successful the will be, or how much recent happening will affect box office. We do not even know a complete direction Gunn wants to go Also, the Snyder crowd was not big enough to help HBOMax and was not big enough to help Black Adam. So, it's pretty iffy that it will hurt a Gunnverse.

However, firing Gal, Cavill, Dwayne, etc, will definitely hurt all of next years films. There is no point in them any longer.

[YoungJRNYfan]

Watched the Snyder Cut recently. Superior to every CBM film by a large margin. Winning.

Eat shit Monker. Lets go bitches.

[YoungJRNYfan]

Until recently, you guys had no problem with him at all.

That's not true at all. I hated GOTGV2 and said plenty about that. In fact, you and I had a back-and-forth about it ages ago, but I think you've been hangin' with your buddy Al Zheimer.

Also, you can't kill ticket sales if they take a tax write-off and don't release the films.

I was referring to future films (not yet made), but I thought that was plenty obvious. I guess not!

There has been no criticism of Gunn after he joined the DC clan after being fired from Disney, from The Suicide Squad on...until now...which what I have been saying.

If by "future films" you mean after 2023, I don't think anybody can guess how successful the will be, or how much recent happening will affect box office. We do not even know a complete direction Gunn wants to go Also, the Snyder crowd was not big enough to help HBOMax and was not big enough to help Black Adam. So, it's pretty iffy that it will hurt a Gunnverse.

However, firing Gal, Cavill, Dwayne, etc, will definitely hurt all of next years films. There is no point in them any longer.

The "Snyder crowd" was split. Even for Black Adam. The fanbase was fractured even then and most was still in Boycott mode, regardless of Cavill's return because there was no transparency from the studio. The fanbase's intuition was right as Zaslav was using dirty tactics behind the scenes and allowing Abdy and DeLuca make the decisions outright. It was said that everyone under the sun turned the DC Studios gig down, including Anthony Lin and that prompted DeLuca to point Zaslav in Safran's direction. Even Safran had a stipulation of having a co-head and Gunn agreed to be the creative mouthpiece. Gunn has his major..major work cut out for him. Lots need to happen before we see where things are headed.

However, firing Gal, Cavill, Dwayne, etc, will definitely hurt all of next years films. There is no point in them any longer.

Shareholders already hate Zaslav and barely approved his outrageous salary. WBD is in crisis mode and is in way more debt than imaginable. They lost $1.5 billion in just this QRT alone. Zaslav is setting the company for another sale in 3-5 years. That is going to happen. WBD can't afford Cavill or Gal. It's best they are far away from this shitshow.

[verslibre]

Shareholders already hate Zaslav and barely approved his outrageous salary. WBD is in crisis mode and is in way more debt than imaginable. They lost $1.5 billion in just this QRT alone. Zaslav is setting the company for another sale in 3-5 years. That is going to happen. WBD can't afford Cavill or Gal. It's best they are far away from this shitshow.

Hear! Hear!

[verslibre]

Watched the Snyder Cut recently. Superior to every CBM film by a large margin. Winning.

I firmly believe that we will get a continuation of that storyline.

[verslibre]

Why Zack Snyder's Unorthodox Aspect Ratio Surprisingly Works

https://collider.com/snyder-cut-aspect-ratio-explained/

Combine the aspect ratio’s necessity of intention with Zack Snyder’s propensity for desaturation, slow-motion, and sound and motion trumping straight dialogue scenes, and well, I think Zack Snyder earns his comparisons to classic, even silent cinema, and then some. The 4:3 frame uses our cultural colloquialisms and connotations regarding the 4:3 frame perfectly, making the film feel either timeless or frozen in amber from another time (and most importantly, distancing itself wholly from the 2017 cut of the film, presented in a cropped and standardized 1.78:1). Every second of the four-hour epic is heavy with Snyder’s intention, and it all starts from his idiosyncratic, highly personal aspect ratio choice, a choice that will immerse you wholly even as it leaves your television blank on either side.

[YoungJRNYfan]

Watched the Snyder Cut recently. Superior to every CBM film by a large margin. Winning.

I firmly believe that we will get a continuation of that storyline.

Good graces are happening at the studio between WBD and Zack (as ZS confirmed recently as such), especially between Pam Abdy and Mike DeLuca. We'll see how that relationship progress's from here on out. The studio greenlighting this years Snyder Con was huge and Zack refused to comment on some of his ideas of what he was going to do because "that would be a spoiler" and "it would be cool to maybe show that one day" so the way Hollywood is moving? The Snyderverse will remain a hot entity that won't go away.

Zack also released a Snyder Con poster that showed the BvS Superman statue put back together, or..restored if you will. Snyder mentioned that he will talk about that poster and what that means at a later date. There's a good possibility ZS will be allowed to cook again. It may just be a matter of time.

[verslibre]

Like Zack told the Russos: "One day!" Something's-a-brewing!

[Monker]

Like Zack told the Russos: "One day!" Something's-a-brewing!

Yeah, well, he also said something similar to Cavill....

...several weeks before Gunn "fired" him.

None of this matters unless it comes from Gunn. If Gunn wants to reboot Superman, and WRITE the reboot...it would be a HUGE mistake to revisit the Snyderverse in ANY way. If he is going to start over, then all of this crap needs to end. In fact, Gunn should either confirm it, or slam it into the ground and pee on it...and not sweat a drop.

[Monker]

However, firing Gal, Cavill, Dwayne, etc, will definitely hurt all of next years films. There is no point in them any longer.

The "Snyder crowd" was split. Even for Black Adam. The fanbase was fractured even then and most was still in Boycott mode, [/quote]

Making excuses for the failure of Black Adam and Rock's elimination from the future of DC is about as convincing as Marvel fans making excuses for Quantumania or "Love and Thunder".

regardless of Cavill's return because there was no transparency from the studio. The fanbase's intuition was right as Zaslav was using dirty tactics behind the scenes and allowing Abdy and DeLuca make the decisions outright. It was said that everyone under the sun turned the DC Studios gig down, including Anthony Lin and that prompted DeLuca to point Zaslav in Safran's direction. Even Safran had a stipulation of having a co-head and Gunn agreed to be the creative mouthpiece. Gunn has his major..major work cut out for him. Lots need to happen before we see where things are headed.

Thus far, Gunn's decisions of the FUTURE of DC kind of suck. The only good decision is rebooting Superman and ending the Snyderverse. And, if he doesn't get Superman right, nothing else matters anyway.

Shareholders already hate Zaslav and barely approved his outrageous salary. WBD is in crisis mode and is in way more debt than imaginable. They lost $1.5 billion in just this QRT alone. Zaslav is setting the company for another sale in 3-5 years. That is going to happen. WBD can't afford Cavill or Gal. It's best they are far away from this shitshow.

I really don't care what people think of Zaslav and Gunn in that way. I already said WBD is in huge debt...that is why I said they should scrap the release of the remaining DCEU movies and take the tax write off. They should have never released Shazam. Not sure about Blue Beetle...it's not really connected to anything, and it looks like it actually may be good. IMO, it's risky to even release the Flash movie...if the DCEU was relevant, maybe it would make sense. But, using it as a reboot point is, IMO, kinda dumb. Aquaman is irrelevant even if it IS a good movie. All of these could underperform as bad as Shazam and cost DC in the long run if they fail to make much profit.

Cavill, Gal (especially WW84) and Snyder are huge reasons why WB is not doing well. WB can't afford to hire them because they can't afford another BvS, WW84, the original Suicide Squad, Harley Quinn, etc. At that time, it was a gamble if any new DC movie was even going to be watchable, nevermind likable. They are the reason Gunn is rebooting much of DC for the DCU. Next time, maybe they should try some screaming goats to lighten things up.

I also already said that WB may be sold. So, none of that surprises me. BUT, if they release a string of movies that bomb, then they are not doing anything good for the selling price and are costing themselves money in the long run.

[YoungJRNYfan]

This is why I hate forums nowadays. They are a thing of the past and are slow as fucking molasses. I had an entire thing written out and got logged out and lost it. Gawd dammit.

Plot twist: it had me agreeing with Monker in some spots. Kill me. If I have any energy or fucks to give, I'll write it again. Maybe tomorrow. Twitter is where it's at for discussions.

As for Gunn, real quick: he's already in muddied waters. He confirmed that he's bringing back his team that he already worked with like Peacemaker and The Suicide Squad. Harley Quinn was a reason why he's rebooting the DCU? Then why is he bringing Margot Robbie back? Viola Davis as Waller? It's already ruffling feathers. A true reboot from the top down would have sat better with fans to translate. But Gunn is already cherrypicking his friends and axing prior fan favorites. The DCU is already walking on wet eggshells.

[YoungJRNYfan]

Like Zack told the Russos: "One day!" Something's-a-brewing!

Yeah, well, he also said something similar to Cavill....

...several weeks before Gunn "fired" him.

None of this matters unless it comes from Gunn. If Gunn wants to reboot Superman, and WRITE the reboot...it would be a HUGE mistake to revisit the Snyderverse in ANY way. If he is going to start over, then all of this crap needs to end. In fact, Gunn should either confirm it, or slam it into the ground and pee on it...and not sweat a drop.

Got to hold the phone there. Gunn and Safran are DC Studios. Pam Abdy and Mike DeLuca are still apart of WBD and are decision makers in other subdivisions of films. With them holding down their positions, there's still a chance they can be a huge part in those relations. Zaslav is positioning the company for another sell in a few years. Anything is possible and not off limits.

[verslibre]

Classic Monker.

Cavill, Gal (especially WW84) and Snyder are huge reasons why WB is not doing well. WB can't afford to hire them because they can't afford another BvS, WW84, the original Suicide Squad, Harley Quinn, etc. At that time, it was a gamble if any new DC movie was even going to be watchable, nevermind likable. They are the reason Gunn is rebooting much of DC for the DCU. Next time, maybe they should try some screaming goats to lighten things up.

White elephant in the room #1 – all that money WB pissed away by paying Joss to redo 75% of a finished movie.

White elephant in the room #2 – all that money WB pissed away by constantly interfering with a preplanned arc that would have resolved itself by now, and the path to a reboot would be set, anyway.

White elephant in the room #3 – nobody "blames" Gal for WW84. In fact, everyone wants her to continue as Diana of Themyscira, and she absolutely should. Ana de Armas and other actors insist.

White elephant in the room #4 – as the Russos did with Endgame, Gunn may likely borrow a few elements from Snyder's accomplishments for Legacy (and likely get praised for it). The hate for Zack is systemic. It's unnatural.

If they messed with Wan to the point the Aquaman sequel fails, that's even more money left on the table. How do you sabotage the follow-up to a billion-dollar-grossing movie unless you have an ulterior motive?

As usual, the theme is "DC-Warner bad, bad, bad!"

[Monker]

Classic Monker.

Cavill, Gal (especially WW84) and Snyder are huge reasons why WB is not doing well. WB can't afford to hire them because they can't afford another BvS, WW84, the original Suicide Squad, Harley Quinn, etc. At that time, it was a gamble if any new DC movie was even going to be watchable, nevermind likable. They are the reason Gunn is rebooting much of DC for the DCU. Next time, maybe they should try some screaming goats to lighten things up.

White elephant in the room #1 – all that money WB pissed away by paying Joss to redo 75% of a finished movie.

Just more proof of how in debt WB is. In addition, the "Snyder cut" did not exactly deliver a bunch of badly needed HBOMax subscribers. You guys are all talk, but very little ability to actually deliver viewers.

White elephant in the room #2 – all that money WB pissed away by constantly interfering with a preplanned arc that would have resolved itself by now, and the path to a reboot would be set, anyway.

Irrelevant. It's in the past now and DC needs to move on to have any future at all. All of this Snyderverse bullshit is a distraction from what needs to happen - moving on.

White elephant in the room #3 – nobody "blames" Gal for WW84. In fact, everyone wants her to continue as Diana of Themyscira, and she absolutely should. Ana de Armas and other actors insist.

Then those other actors should be fired because they are NOT in charge of the DCU. DC has allowed fans and actors to have too much influence over the business for too long. The entire Rock/Cavill/Superman vs Black Adam debacle should be the last time the executives (including Gunn/Zaslav) allow that to happen

Gal is nothing but a reminder of the past and what used to be. She may not be THE reason WW84 is unwatchable, but her presence carried about as much weight as the Rock's did in Black Adam. Neither delivered enough viewers to force a 'hit'. She is irrelevant and it is better choice to move on to a new actress.

White elephant in the room #4 – as the Russos did with Endgame, Gunn may likely borrow a few elements from Snyder's accomplishments for Legacy (and likely get praised for it). The hate for Zack is systemic. It's unnatural.

Irrelevant. The Snyderverse is pushing up daisies...and should stay that way in order for DC to have a future.

If they messed with Wan to the point the Aquaman sequel fails, that's even more money left on the table. How do you sabotage the follow-up to a billion-dollar-grossing movie unless you have an ulterior motive?

You release WW84.

Aquaman is already fucked up because it connects to the old story and old characters. It is risky to release. If they cancel it, at least they are guaranteed a tax write off. If they release it, they run the risk of another Shazam.

As usual, the theme is "DC-Warner bad, bad, bad!"

Maybe DC should get their shit together and start releasing good and relevant movies...or, maybe take a 5yr break from DC CBM's and concentrate on something else while all of this SHIT is put into the past for good. Maybe concentrate on the Dune franchise, which they seemeto have done right with Denis. DC seems to be in this hopeless pattern of recycled trash.

[Monker]

Like Zack told the Russos: "One day!" Something's-a-brewing!

Yeah, well, he also said something similar to Cavill....

...several weeks before Gunn "fired" him.

None of this matters unless it comes from Gunn. If Gunn wants to reboot Superman, and WRITE the reboot...it would be a HUGE mistake to revisit the Snyderverse in ANY way. If he is going to start over, then all of this crap needs to end. In fact, Gunn should either confirm it, or slam it into the ground and pee on it...and not sweat a drop.

Got to hold the phone there. Gunn and Safran are DC Studios. Pam Abdy and Mike DeLuca are still apart of WBD and are decision makers in other subdivisions of films. With them holding down their positions, there's still a chance they can be a huge part in those relations. Zaslav is positioning the company for another sell in a few years. Anything is possible and not off limits.

Then Gunn should walk into Zaslav's office and ask who is in charge of the DCU. If it is still James Gunn, then he should ask how other divisions of the company are releasing projects with DC characters...and then threaten to quit if that does not change. Either Gunn is in charge of the DCU, or he is not...and he should be pissed if it is possible to do and end-run around his decisions...which it seemed Zaslav agreed with at the time. In fact, I would hire an attorney and look into breach of contract and the possibility of suing WBD to end his contract with pay...and I would imply that I was considering doing it. And, none of this wiould help position WB to be sold.

[verslibre]

Then Gunn should walk into Zaslav's office and ask who is in charge of the DCU. If it is still James Gunn, then he should ask how other divisions of the company are releasing projects with DC characters...and then threaten to quit if that does not change. Either Gunn is in charge of the DCU, or he is not...and he should be pissed if it is possible to do and end-run around his decisions...which it seemed Zaslav agreed with at the time. In fact, I would hire an attorney and look into breach of contract and the possibility of suing WBD to end his contract with pay...and I would imply that I was considering doing it. And, none of this wiould help position WB to be sold.

Gunn is the hiree, remember? He's in no position to make any kinds of demands. He does what "you think" he should, he's done at WBD.

Matt Reeves' Batman trilogy is happening and he doesn't need Gunn's approval.

I swear.

[verslibre]

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Some things never change.

Maybe DC should get their shit together and start releasing good and relevant movies...or, maybe take a 5yr break from DC CBM's and concentrate on something else while all of this SHIT is put into the past for good. Maybe concentrate on the Dune franchise, which they seemeto have done right with Denis. DC seems to be in this hopeless pattern of recycled trash.

Yeah, that Dune duology, with a great wooden lead actor. Why Denis cast him is beyond me. I'm not convinced it's better than Lynch's version. The VFX are modern, and it has a great cast (but so did Lynch's).

[Monker]

Maybe DC should get their shit together and start releasing good and relevant movies...or, maybe take a 5yr break from DC CBM's and concentrate on something else while all of this SHIT is put into the past for good. Maybe concentrate on the Dune franchise, which they seemeto have done right with Denis. DC seems to be in this hopeless pattern of recycled trash.

Yeah, that Dune duology, with a great wooden lead actor. Why Denis cast him is beyond me. I'm not convinced it's better than Lynch's version. The VFX are modern, and it has a great cast (but so did Lynch's).

Paul is supposed to be a teenage kid. Kyle Maclachlan looked like he was in 20's in the old movie...much too old for a naïve and impressionable teenager. Chalamet looks MUCH more the part in the new movie...and he still looks older than the books portray him. They can also age him up for Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, if they choose. His acting is not that bad. The original movie had a LOT of issues, including the constant "inner voice" and the way they did the weirding way with the sound module. Denis is taking an approach similar to the 2000 SciFi mini-series which is far superior to the Lynch move, IMO. It's obvious that Princess Irulan (Florence Pugh) is going to have a larger part than the original movie. Irulan had a larger part in the mini-series as well...IMO, it made the story MUCH more interesting. "Plans within plans" had more meaning. Denis also implied some things about the heritage of Paul and his mother that the original movie did not...and explains WHY, Lady Jessica was ordered to have only female babies, and WHY Paul became the quizat haderach. The mini-series used their heritage very effectively...and I suspect it will play a role in the second movie. The original movie failed to show Paul as a failed leader...which is important to the over all story of Dune and why Denis should do a third or even fourth movie. Paul's leadership became a religion and billions were killed in holy wars to bring peace to the universe...Paul was also trapped by his own prophesies and bound to them. The end result was a universe with a religion grown around one man and a man trapped by his own prophesies within that religion..."free will" did not exist, because Paul could see the future, therefore everything was predetermined. That is what Dune Messiah and Children of Dune addresses...unraveling all the issues that Paul created and could not fix.

So, there is much, much more that WB can explore with Dune for the next five years and totally ignore DC and CBM's.

[Monker]

Gunn is the hiree, remember? He's in no position to make any kinds of demands.

Of course he is. If Gunn gets pissed off and quits then DC is in the toilet again. If Snyderverse is somehow rebooted in a different division, then you have two universes competing with each other and a split fanbase arguing...it is an extremely stupid idea and a desperate belief that Snyder fans are clinging to. Snyder will probably announce that the statue will be in a once second shot in the Flash movie, in a glimpse of one of the alternate universes. Then you'll take that to extremes as proof that this alternate universe is where Snyder's films will take place. It's never ending for you people....and it is why Gunn should come down hard and say it is never going to happen.

Matt Reeves' Batman trilogy is happening and he doesn't need Gunn's approval.

That, along with the Joker musical, was contracted before Gunn was hired. It is also not a competing Universe of characters like the Snyderverse.

I swear.

Every damn day.

[verslibre]

Maybe DC should get their shit together and start releasing good and relevant movies...or, maybe take a 5yr break from DC CBM's and concentrate on something else while all of this SHIT is put into the past for good. Maybe concentrate on the Dune franchise, which they seemeto have done right with Denis. DC seems to be in this hopeless pattern of recycled trash.

Yeah, that Dune duology, with a great wooden lead actor. Why Denis cast him is beyond me. I'm not convinced it's better than Lynch's version. The VFX are modern, and it has a great cast (but so did Lynch's).

Paul is supposed to be a teenage kid. Kyle Maclachlan looked like he was in 20's in the old movie...much too old for a naïve and impressionable teenager. Chalamet looks MUCH more the part in the new movie...and he still looks older than the books portray him. They can also age him up for Dune Messiah and Children of Dune, if they choose. His acting is not that bad. The original movie had a LOT of issues, including the constant "inner voice" and the way they did the weirding way with the sound module. Denis is taking an approach similar to the 2000 SciFi mini-series which is far superior to the Lynch move, IMO. It's obvious that Princess Irulan (Florence Pugh) is going to have a larger part than the original movie. Irulan had a larger part in the mini-series as well...IMO, it made the story MUCH more interesting. "Plans within plans" had more meaning. Denis also implied some things about the heritage of Paul and his mother that the original movie did not...and explains WHY, Lady Jessica was ordered to have only female babies, and WHY Paul became the quizat haderach. The mini-series used their heritage very effectively...and I suspect it will play a role in the second movie. The original movie failed to show Paul as a failed leader...which is important to the over all story of Dune and why Denis should do a third or even fourth movie. Paul's leadership became a religion and billions were killed in holy wars to bring peace to the universe...Paul was also trapped by his own prophesies and bound to them. The end result was a universe with a religion grown around one man and a man trapped by his own prophesies within that religion..."free will" did not exist, because Paul could see the future, therefore everything was predetermined. That is what Dune Messiah and Children of Dune addresses...unraveling all the issues that Paul created and could not fix.

So, there is much, much more that WB can explore with Dune for the next five years and totally ignore DC and CBM's.

WTF. That Showtime miniseries SUCKED. I can't.

"His acting is not that bad." It's not as good as Hayden's in those awful Star Wars prequels. Let that sink in...

[verslibre]

That, along with the Joker musical, was contracted before Gunn was hired. It is also not a competing Universe of characters like the Snyderverse.

Most of what's out there was "contracted before" he was brought on. And I still don't believe Gunn was the only guy willing to steer the ship. He shouldn't have one foot in Marvel, promoting GOTGV3, and one foot in DC, talking about Superman: Legacy and the subsequent slate. They're idiots for allowing such things to transpire.

[YoungJRNYfan]

Then Gunn should walk into Zaslav's office and ask who is in charge of the DCU. If it is still James Gunn, then he should ask how other divisions of the company are releasing projects with DC characters...and then threaten to quit if that does not change. Either Gunn is in charge of the DCU, or he is not...and he should be pissed if it is possible to do and end-run around his decisions...which it seemed Zaslav agreed with at the time. In fact, I would hire an attorney and look into breach of contract and the possibility of suing WBD to end his contract with pay...and I would imply that I was considering doing it. And, none of this wiould help position WB to be sold.

Huh? Breach of contract? Gunn said the DCU is a plan up to 8-10 years, but only has a 4 year contract. The rest of your statements are outrageous nonsense. WBD could have deaded Zack Snyder a long time ago. Instead, they greenlit and allowed Zack another Snyder Con, along with a panel of guests being allowed to ask questions with answers coy enough to read between the lines of a patched up relationship between the Snyder's and the new regime. Giving Zack an entire 3 day weekend worth of Snyderverse material (and showing ZSJL on the bigscreen to the fans for the first time ever) and keeping Zack apart of that DC brand as a whole doesn't necessarily help the cause of deading that universe now does it? Instead, it keeps the flame burning. There may be a reason for that. You never know. Hollyweird is changing and Zaslav already admitted his time in the hotseat is going to be shortlived.

[YoungJRNYfan]

That, along with the Joker musical, was contracted before Gunn was hired. It is also not a competing Universe of characters like the Snyderverse.

Most of what's out there was "contracted before" he was brought on. And I still don't believe Gunn was the only guy willing to steer the ship. He shouldn't have one foot in Marvel, promoting GOTGV3, and one foot in DC, talking about Superman: Legacy and the subsequent slate. They're idiots for allowing such things to transpire.

Notice Peter Safran is nowhere to be found? After Anthony Lin turned down the DC Studios gig, absolutely nobody wanted it. They had to go who was already in-house, so DeLuca pointed Zaslav in Safran's direction. Even Safran wouldn't entertain the role alone without a creative co-head. James Gunn isn't a suit. He's the social media mouthpiece pretending to act all transparent with a divided fanbase when in reality, it's anything but. I got to hand it to Gunn though. He's a quirky enough bastard to take it all on. He's the fall guy in the end and if worst comes to worst, he'll just go back to the directors chair. I feel as long as he gets to do characters like Creature Commandos and The Authority, he will scratch that obscure itch. If Superman: Legacy does well, he will be able to take credit of making his mark on one of the biggest characters he's ever tackled. But make no mistake, Gunn has little room for error, if any at all. The DCU will either fail or strive with Legacy. We will know which way things will go right out of the gates.

As much as I love the banter back and forth with this stuff, ultimately, I will never, ever root for the Superman character to fail. Ever. Gunn may have to churn out a borderline masterpiece in Legacy for the DCU to take off. For that, I am worried about the longterm health of the Superman character on the big screen if Legacy fails. For that reason, I can separate whoever is in charge and give the benefit of that doubt. There's apart of me that worries about Superman being put on ice for good cinematically, and that would be a tragedy.

Things would be off to a good start if Gunn indeed casts David Corenswet as Superman. He is prime for the role and as weird as it may be, Corenswet was an actor my buddies and I had an eye on to take over for Henry if that was ever going to be the case. That casting would atleast move the needle slightly for me, but gone are the days where the studio, especially the likes of WB, gets my blind faith. Gunn needs to prove it. Superman is another beast compared to obscure characters he typically is built for (where he admitted not wanting to touch Superman when he was offered him years ago). We shall see.

[Monker]

WTF. That Showtime miniseries SUCKED. I can't.

LOL...you are either trolling or are completely ignorant of what you are talking about.

There was never a Showtime version of Dune.

Frank Herbert's Dune won two Emmy's, was nominated for a third, had a lot of positive reviews at the time and is one of SciFi channel's top rated shows of all time...as is "Children of Dune". You may not like it, but presenting as "SUCKED" as a fact is completely off base. And, judging by your "Showtime" comment, you really don't know what you are talking about anyway.

"His acting is not that bad." It's not as good as Hayden's in those awful Star Wars prequels. Let that sink in...

Like him or not like him, it's just an opinion. Doesn't change much of anything. I do not see the Dune community rising up against Chalamet the way the Star Wars community rose up against Hayden....so, your opinion is only that and pretty irrelevent.

[verslibre]

WTF. That Showtime miniseries SUCKED. I can't.

LOL...you are either trolling or are completely ignorant of what you are talking about.

There was never a Showtime version of Dune.

No surprise that your Wiki wizardry has failed you. Once upon a time, Sci-Fi Channel was a Showtime Networks affiliate (way before Syfy/Sci-Fi). I didn't have Sci-Fi Channel when it originally aired. I had Showtime. That's where I watched it.

Frank Herbert's Dune won two Emmy's, was nominated for a third, had a lot of positive reviews at the time and is one of SciFi channel's top rated shows of all time...as is "Children of Dune". You may not like it, but presenting as "SUCKED" as a fact is completely off base. And, judging by your "Showtime" comment, you really don't know what you are talking about anyway.

Oh, so now "awards + positive reviews" = it's awesome? I bet you're referring to that generous IMDb rating. Look at the tiny font beneath it: 23K. It's an average based on a whopping 23,000 ratings. LOL. The Battlestar reboot kicked its ass with both legs tied together.

What about "874 million dollars"? I mean, you think BvS sucks, right? Even Patrick Wilson couldn't understand how it's regarded as some sort of failure with that kind of dough.

In fact, here's a featured review. This guy's on the money (and he actually likes it, he's not a hater). The whole thing looks and feels cheap. And it has material not found in the novel.

Jon Harrison's version of Dune isn't exactly what you'd expect from a SciFi TV Miniseries...but it's a SciFi TV Miniseries. Much like British Masterpiece Theater, you'd swear they got actors out of college trying to fill a work quota. The acting is Shakespeare in the Park levels of bland with all the pageantry of a repertory theater. William Hurt doesn't help considering his acting has always been bland. He even looks bored in the Marvel movies. There clearly isn't a single frame of this filmed outside, and every single desert scene looks green-screened. The costume design literally makes this look like a college project. No effort is made to produce makeup effects. On the plus side, they used actual contact lenses instead of roto-scoping for the Melange infused eyes. It wasn't the best way to do it since the camera has trouble seeing it in bright light, but it's a far superior way to do it than the other version of Dune did. So, points for that decision! That is a SciFi/SyFy TV mini-series, which means we can forgive most this. It's not as bad as most SciFi/SyFy TV productions. I've seen worse acting worst productions, so let's get into why I rated this at 7 out of 10 instead of 3 (which the acting absolutely deserves).

Now go fight him.

Like him or not like him, it's just an opinion.

Just like all of yours. Irrelevant. I can't wait for Denis to get this check mark out of the way so he can get on with Rendezvous with Rama. He excels at projects like Arrival and Blade Runner 2049, not space opera.

[verslibre]

That, along with the Joker musical, was contracted before Gunn was hired. It is also not a competing Universe of characters like the Snyderverse.

Most of what's out there was "contracted before" he was brought on. And I still don't believe Gunn was the only guy willing to steer the ship. He shouldn't have one foot in Marvel, promoting GOTGV3, and one foot in DC, talking about Superman: Legacy and the subsequent slate. They're idiots for allowing such things to transpire.

Notice Peter Safran is nowhere to be found? After Anthony Lin turned down the DC Studios gig, absolutely nobody wanted it. They had to go who was already in-house, so DeLuca pointed Zaslav in Safran's direction. Even Safran wouldn't entertain the role alone without a creative co-head. James Gunn isn't a suit. He's the social media mouthpiece pretending to act all transparent with a divided fanbase when in reality, it's anything but. I got to hand it to Gunn though. He's a quirky enough bastard to take it all on.

Fischer hates Gunn and while I don't despise the guy on the same level, I fully agree he's an attention whore. (Yeah, where's Safran?)

He's the fall guy in the end and if worst comes to worst, he'll just go back to the directors chair. I feel as long as he gets to do characters like Creature Commandos and The Authority, he will scratch that obscure itch. If Superman: Legacy does well, he will be able to take credit of making his mark on one of the biggest characters he's ever tackled. But make no mistake, Gunn has little room for error, if any at all. The DCU will either fail or strive with Legacy. We will know which way things will go right out of the gates.

It's going to be a long time till we see...anything. SDCC 2024 at the earliest. Gunn isn't slow, but I won't be surprised if he teases till fandom's collective head explodes. I think Gunn is like the fall guy who won't fall, like Zack with a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. If the movie doesn't make what they expect, he'll "keep on Gunning" and his diehard fanbase will be there for him.

As much as I love the banter back and forth with this stuff, ultimately, I will never, ever root for the Superman character to fail. Ever. Gunn may have to churn out a borderline masterpiece in Legacy for the DCU to take off. For that, I am worried about the longterm health of the Superman character on the big screen if Legacy fails. For that reason, I can separate whoever is in charge and give the benefit of that doubt. There's apart of me that worries about Superman being put on ice for good cinematically, and that would be a tragedy.

That's the worst-case scenario, and I truly hope that never happens. But I don't think it will. If Batman can survive much worse under Schumacher (BatClooney cringe meme), I think Supes will be safe. I don't wany any of the characters to fail. It's unfortunate that many directors won't afford these IPs the respect they deserve. Taika lampoons Thor and is praised for it. The Eternals barely resembles Jack Kirby's creations. Disney is in full conveyor belt mode with everything they own.

Zack gives the Justice League the kind of cinematic gravitas that we wanted to see them afforded and gets handed a dunce cap!?

Gunn needs to prove it. Superman is another beast compared to obscure characters he typically is built for (where he admitted not wanting to touch Superman when he was offered him years ago). We shall see.

[Monker]

There was never a Showtime version of Dune.

No surprise that your Wiki wizardry has failed you. Once upon a time, Sci-Fi Channel was a Showtime Networks affiliate (way before Syfy/Sci-Fi). I didn't have Sci-Fi Channel when it originally aired. I had Showtime. That's where I watched it.

Wiki? You would be better off using the Wiki because you do NOT know what you are talking about. I know this stuff from being a huge Farscape fan and knowing what happened to the SciFi channel and why Farscape got canceled.

The SciFi channel was owned by USA Networks, not "Showtime Networks"...two completely different things. USA sold Scifi (along with other networks) to Vivendi Universal in 2002. Then in 2003, Vivendi and NBC merged to become NBC Universal, which is where SyFy resides today. During the 2002 and 2003 changes, Farscape was in negotiations. During the negotiations, the Henson side tried to pressure them for more of a budget by saying, "if that is all you are willing to offer, you may as well cancel us." Vivendi/NBC said, "OK, you're canceled." Henson said, "Wait, we were negotiating..." Vivendi/NBC said, "Too late, you're canceled." This was a huge shock because Vivendi (prior to the merger) renewed Farscape for two seasons (seasons 4 and 5)...they were only in budget negotiations for season 5, not renewal, so canceling the show did not seem possible, especially when the series story arc would have ended in season 5 and Henson did not have any plans past that.

Dune came out in 2000, when SciFi was owned by USA Networks. Children of Dune came out in 2002, I think...either during the negotiation with Vivendi or when Vivendi owned the channel. In any case, the two series were made for the SciFi Channel and is documented in any way you can look it up. After Farscape was canceled, SciFi said they wanted to do more projects like Dune...and that is where the Farscape budget was going. SciFi said a lot of things to try to explain away why Farscape was canceled...and they ended up spending the Farscape budget on a Farscape mini-series.

Just doing the smallest bit of research, yes, Showtime was obviously part of Showtime networks. Both Showtime networks and USA Networks were owned by Viacom at one time. BUT, Viacom sold their interest in USA Networks in 1997, well before Dune was released in 2000. There was no connection between the two networks when Dune was released.

You may have seen Dune on Showtime, but it was not made for Showtime. You simply have no clue what you are talking about. And, if you watch the first moments of Dune, it CLEARLY says, "SciFi Channel presents" in opening moments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Or5viS ... hArtaresto

I have NEVER heard of the miniseries being called "That Showtime series". It is called Frank Herbert's Dune. Dune 2000. The Dune miniseries. SciFi' channel's Dune....

Frank Herbert's Dune won two Emmy's, was nominated for a third, had a lot of positive reviews at the time and is one of SciFi channel's top rated shows of all time...as is "Children of Dune". You may not like it, but presenting as "SUCKED" as a fact is completely off base. And, judging by your "Showtime" comment, you really don't know what you are talking about anyway.

Oh, so now "awards + positive reviews" = it's awesome?

That is NOT what I said. I said that presenting it as "IT SUCKED" as a fact is completely off base. Many people then, and now, do not agree with that at all.

I bet you're referring to that generous IMDb rating.

I don't care about the IMDb rating...or the RT score. It just doesn't matter.

The Battlestar reboot kicked its ass with both legs tied together.

Prove it. What were the original ratings for the two miniseries? I have read many time how Dune and Children of Dune are among SciFi/SyFy's most watch mini-series EVER. BSG is probably up there, too...but there is NO WAY it blew away Dune.

What about "874 million dollars"? I mean, you think BvS sucks, right? Even Patrick Wilson couldn't understand how it's regarded as some sort of failure with that kind of dough.

I don't know...ask Martha.

In fact, here's a featured review. This guy's on the money (and he actually likes it

Thank you for proving my point. YOU may not like it, but it doesn't SUCK.

And, here is a much better representation of what the 2000 Dune is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZXLpaTPVP0

and, his review of Dune 2021:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7mKJzGKb1c

I can't wait for Denis to get this check mark out of the way so he can get on with Rendezvous with Rama. He excels at projects like Arrival and Blade Runner 2049, not space opera.

[/quote]

Dune is NOT a "space opera". It is a science fiction story that has deep dives into religion, politics, ecology, economy, and more....which I am sure is why Denis was drawn to it. Dune is NOT Star Wars, Star Trek (any version), Stargate, Babylon 5, FireFly, Lexx, BSG, Farscape, Dark Matter, the Ark, Blake's 7, Space 1999, Lost In Space (either version), Guardians of the Galaxy, etc...which is ironic because Dune was an influence over Star Wars, which influenced almost everything that followed. Dismissing Dune as a "space opera" is like calling "Lord of the Rings" a wizard movie.

[verslibre]

I have NEVER heard of the miniseries being called "That Showtime series". It is called Frank Herbert's Dune. Dune 2000. The Dune miniseries. SciFi' channel's Dune....

Good gravy. You're one anal mofo when it comes to your Sci-Fi/SyFy fetishism.

Now, if you could just apply that same nitpicking to your HTML tags in here, that would be sweet!

The Battlestar reboot kicked its ass with both legs tied together.

Prove it. What were the original ratings for the two miniseries? I have read many time how Dune and Children of Dune are among SciFi/SyFy's most watch mini-series EVER. BSG is probably up there, too...but there is NO WAY it blew away Dune.

No, you prove it. BSG was way more popular and deservedly so.

I don't know...ask Martha.

There it is!

YOU may not like it, but it doesn't SUCK.

Naturally, that only applies to the crap YOU like.

Dune is NOT a "space opera". It is a science fiction story that has deep dives into religion, politics, ecology, economy, and more....which I am sure is why Denis was drawn to it. Dune is NOT Star Wars, Star Trek (any version), Stargate, Babylon 5, FireFly, Lexx, BSG, Farscape, Dark Matter, the Ark, Blake's 7, Space 1999, Lost In Space (either version), Guardians of the Galaxy, etc...which is ironic because Dune was an influence over Star Wars, which influenced almost everything that followed. Dismissing Dune as a "space opera" is like calling "Lord of the Rings" a wizard movie.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The original novel isn't space opera (and it's overrated). Stop making lists of shows. You loved to do that years ago. You don't need to do it now.

George Lucas helped himself — desert planet, spice mines, moisture farm, etcetera — to concepts from Dune and many other films and novels. Not interested in that old discussion. Make another thread for it.