Religion & Morality

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby YoungJRNY » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:03 am

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Batman's never been considered "boring." I've seen that word attributed plenty to Supes, because when you have a guy that's invincible, you can only have him fight a cosmic menace (which is already what the GL Corps do). Think about it: what is the f-in point of having him chase crooks that other heroes can handle? You'd have to have him stick to grinding down tectonic plates with helicopter blades fastened to his forearms. And really, the whole concept of him being a humble newspaper reporter is silly. But I'm not going to get into all that here. Let's just say my take on that character would be a lot different, and very appropriate. :lol:


Superman's character has been portrayed in basically the same way since 1938 and very few writers in between hasn't really changed that concept of Superman. Things change over 70+ years of one character but Superman has remained consistent and the most popular out of all superheros, even in a time that is more suitable for a character like Batman (whose entire character and concept had an overhaul. Thank Frank Miller for Batman's success since the reboot.) As I said, it's very much easier for a writer to connect a darker character to an audience, especially in today's world. Superman hasn't really changed and STILL is considered THEE Superhero. As I said, there's WAY MORE to Superman than just his power-set. He actually has a personality and most of his best stories came from how he uses his insight and PERSONALITY over strength and muscle. Bruce has none of that. The Bat-suite and dark character ALONE sells more than the actual substance of Batman as a character. Superman shows emotion and some audiences prefer that as well, believe it or not, not just some dark figure forever fighting the vengeance and revenge of his parents.

Oh, we're going to see a "darker" Superman, dude? Gee, I wonder where that came from? Oh, yeah...Nolan!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

It still won't make as much moola as The Dark Knight.


Who said it was going to be darker? You can't write Superman "dark." He's not going to put on a cowl, wear a mask and attach gadgets to his waist. He's still going to be Clark Kent, raised by the kindly couple from Kansas. The only difference is, is that it won't be the Donnerverse, or in simple terms, 1978. He will have more bark for his bite but yet, still stand for who he is and it should be a perfect combination to a new era of Superman.

As for the box-office, it's very hard to depict if Man Of Steel will be anywhere near "The Dark Knight." This movie doesn't have the success of "Batman Begins" behind it NOR the death of a highly anticipated actor portraying a popular character. We all get that and your prediction is all but common sense but that's not to say it won't be just as good as the new Bat franchise. Wait until people get a load of Henry Cavill. Dude has what it takes and is JACKED out of his mind.

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Christopher Nolan is just overseeing the project and Cavill never even met Nolan. This is ALL Zack Snyder's portrayal and intake.
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Postby verslibre » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:30 am

Correction: Superman is the oldest "popular comic book character." But not THE most popular. Don't you remember (well, you probably weren't there) when Marvel was outselling DC with X-Men and all the mutant shit and (Miller's) Daredevil, and then DC got the edge with Dark Knight and Watchmen?

Batman and Wolverine were seriously more "popular" and more readable than Superman (and Batman still is, judging by the DC 52 sales grosses).

It's like this:

Superman = (old) Captain America (the two "goody-goody" characters)

Batman = Iron Man (the two wealthy corporate moguls with technology to enable them)

One set is all about "truth" and "justice" and doing "what's right," no matter what.

Sometimes the other set does things to get them ahead, even if it's solely for their gain, but ultimately for their cause.

YoungJRNY wrote:You can't write Superman "dark."


Says you. See, only a closeminded guy would say that. A goody-goody character gets boring fast.

YoungJRNY wrote:Christopher Nolan is just overseeing the project and Cavill never even met Nolan. This is ALL Zack Snyder's portrayal and intake.


Oh, I'm sure Nolan gave him some "tips." :wink:
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Postby artist4perry » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:56 am

conversationpc wrote:
S2M wrote:Btw, I've never used the word 'stupid'.


Technically correct. However, from page 1 of this thread...

S2M wrote:However, I DO have to say that a great majority of the devout are, in fact, not extremely gifted in the brain power area...


I know, semantics, right? :lol:


No! In the quote below he was meaning I am a genius! :roll: :roll: :roll:

S2M wrote:Ginger, I'm sorry but you just aren't smart enough to grasp the counterarguments presented to you. When someone has terminal cancer one day, then has no sign of the disease a week later - you religious types label it a miracle, and attribute it to Gandalf....but the kid in that picture? The leader of the Grey Company doesn't think HIM worthy of a miracle? Too much arbitrary miracle doling happening in the world...

Truth be told S2M I don't believe in modern day miracles.
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Postby Rip Rokken » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:27 am

conversationpc wrote:Abortion always hurts at least one human being.


Christopher Hitchens agrees with you on this topic.
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Postby Rip Rokken » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:44 am

S2M wrote:
Rip Rokken wrote:
S2M wrote:
Rip Rokken wrote:
S2M wrote:Here's a clip that illustrates just how childish this whole 'god' thing is....

http://www.thedailyshow.com/


I don't get the impression that you're serious about persuading anyone with your arguments. I agree with many of them, but the constant insults do nothing to forward the conversation. They just offend people and turn them off. So are you really interested in making persuasive arguments, or do you just get off on putting others down?


Rip, if you don't get it - then I don't know what to tell you. To have everyone at FoxNews up in arms because the President didn't mention 'god' in his Thanksgiving Speech, is rather sad....I wasn't joking, I was serious.

Evidently, 'god' needs shout outs....who knew?


And to do rather extensive research into how many times the last 3 CICs forgot to include 'god' in a speech - is purely overkill, IMHO.


I really don't think you watched the clip. You saw Daily Show in the URL, and made a snap judgment....


Had nothing to do with the video - those are fine. It's using words like "childish" (above), or "stupid", or insulting people's intelligence. I love these discussions, but no matter how much I disagree with anyone's point of view, there's nobody here I wouldn't love to meet and drink a beer with. Why risk losing potential beer-drinking buddies? :)



So calling Black Friday occupiers, 'Zombies', or claiming that you are smarter than 99.7% of the shoppers that evening is ok - but calling a video about the omission of 'god' in a speech, childish, is not? Btw, I've never used the word 'stupid'.



You didn't call the video childish... re-read your original comment. Also, my statements on Black Friday were obviously made with humorous intent, with minimal probability of offending anyone in this conversation. Here, when you insult the intelligence of believers (and you unabashedly have), you are speaking to several believers. All I'm saying is, if you'd like people to want to drink beer with you, don't be such a rude motherfucker. Just listened to a podcast today and even serious atheists caution people not to take your hamfisted approach.

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Postby YoungJRNY » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:46 am

Says you. See, only a closeminded guy would say that. A goody-goody character gets boring fast.


Uh, no. Says me after getting it from the horse's mouth himself, Henry Cavill A.K.A Superman. I don't get your closeminded statement at all when I've been asking for a more badass Superman since the beginning of time. Not once where I said something about Man Of Steel being a goody-good character whatsoever. Putting words in my mouth or something, did it on numerous occasions. Cavill stated in numerous interviews that even though he's getting a good feel on how to tackle the character on how he's going to own it, that the script calls for different takes and patterns from what we're use to but not unrecognizable. He said Superman's character won't be dark whatsoever and there isn't much you can change on the iconic character but that doesn't necessarily mean the events going on around him won't be more provoking. I even said before-hand that Superman will be more portrayed as more of a badass and more attitude but hardly a "dark" character. Superman simply isn't "dark" and that's not being close minded, it's just the way it is.
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Postby S2M » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:00 am

S2M wrote:Here's a clip that illustrates just how childish this whole 'god' thing is....

http://www.thedailyshow.com/



If you watched the video, you would know that the weekend BMOC of Foxnews decided to charge someone(s) with attacking Obama's omission of 'god' in his Thanksgiving Speech. To harp on this IS childish. Even researching how often other presidents have omitted his name.

This is exactly how 'petty' it has become. My point was on how childish the harping was, not on the believers themselves...but now since you have forced me to re-read my original comment/watch the video again - I guess childish would explain the individuals who not only asked for this to be done, but also for the, yes, lemmings who carried out said orders...I mean, really?
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Postby verslibre » Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:11 am

YoungJRNY wrote:I even said before-hand that Superman will be more portrayed as more of a badass and more attitude but hardly a "dark" character.


I'm sure it'll be a good movie. After the third and fourth '80s movies, and the Routh movie, they can only go "up" from there. :D
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Postby YoungJRNY » Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:15 am

verslibre wrote:
YoungJRNY wrote:I even said before-hand that Superman will be more portrayed as more of a badass and more attitude but hardly a "dark" character.


I'm sure it'll be a good movie. After the third and fourth '80s movies, and the Routh movie, they can only go "up" from there. :D


BatFans are one to talk. I'd seriously rather have the option of "going up" from this:

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Than this:

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Bat nipples? Really? :lol:

Only one way to settle this:

WORLD'S FINEST!

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Postby verslibre » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:22 pm

YoungJRNY wrote:Bat nipples? Really? :lol:


I'll tell you exactly why that happened.

Schumachtoast is ghey.

It's better to pretend those movies didn't happen. Remember, there was even a frame of the BatASS!! :lol:
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Postby verslibre » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:24 pm

And seriously, the fourth Batman AND Superman movies suck beyond belief. I actually fell asleep during Batman & Robin!!!

Thank God Christopher Nolan ERASED that shit. :lol:
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Postby S2M » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:26 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^^ The best way to keep me out of this thread.....
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Postby verslibre » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:47 pm

Good to know!!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby verslibre » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:51 pm

P.S. Your avatar reminds me of this:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Postby majik » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:59 pm

S2M wrote:^^^^^^^^^^^^ The best way to keep me out of this thread.....



Holy crap Batman, what's the Indian Guru doing in our bat cave, don't worry Robin he's just as lost in fantasy too.
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Postby Rip Rokken » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:37 am

My daughter came home yesterday with something called "Elf on the Shelf"...

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She was telling me the whole story behind it, how each night he'd fly to Santa's workshop to tell him if she'd been good or bad, but only if nobody in the house stayed up too late. Also, if you ever touched him, he'd lose all his magical powers. On the back of the box was a little history narrative, and I found the following line particularly interesting (and revealing):

"Unwittingly, the tradition provided an added benefit: it helped children to better control themselves. All it took was a gentle reminder that the 'elf is watching' for errant behavior to be modified."

Hmm... sounds like what she learns in Sunday School each week.
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Postby Duncan » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:19 am

The clip below is an interview with Richard Dawkins about his new book The Magic of Reality, which is aimed at kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-TFIxW1d10
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:06 am

Duncan wrote:The clip below is an interview with Richard Dawkins about his new book The Magic of Reality, which is aimed at kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-TFIxW1d10


I'm perfectly fine with atheists doing this if they so wish with their own children. I just find it pretty hypocritical that they have such a fit with people of faith doing the same thing with their children.
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Postby Duncan » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:35 am

conversationpc wrote:
Duncan wrote:The clip below is an interview with Richard Dawkins about his new book The Magic of Reality, which is aimed at kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-TFIxW1d10


I'm perfectly fine with atheists doing this if they so wish with their own children. I just find it pretty hypocritical that they have such a fit with people of faith doing the same thing with their children.


It's not hypocritical. It's about teaching the truth and giving kids a fair chance in life. What is hypocritical is beliving is denying evolution, but being perfectly happy to use antibiotics.
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:21 am

Duncan wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Duncan wrote:The clip below is an interview with Richard Dawkins about his new book The Magic of Reality, which is aimed at kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-TFIxW1d10


I'm perfectly fine with atheists doing this if they so wish with their own children. I just find it pretty hypocritical that they have such a fit with people of faith doing the same thing with their children.


It's not hypocritical. It's about teaching the truth and giving kids a fair chance in life. What is hypocritical is beliving is denying evolution, but being perfectly happy to use antibiotics.


No need to twist it into something I didn't say...I'm speaking merely of people teaching their kids what they see fit, whether it be their belief of atheism or faith.

Regardless, I have heard hypocrite atheists decry how people of faith teaching their children about it is abusive but I'm guessing they'd have no problem with a book about "The Magic of Reality" being aimed at kids.
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:26 am

Every time I see the thread, I keep thinking it says "Religion and MORTALITY" and how appropriate that would actually be. :lol:
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Postby artist4perry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:11 am

conversationpc wrote:Every time I see the thread, I keep thinking it says "Religion and MORTALITY" and how appropriate that would actually be. :lol:


I never fear the latter or the first. :wink:
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Postby parfait » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:32 am

conversationpc wrote:
Duncan wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Duncan wrote:The clip below is an interview with Richard Dawkins about his new book The Magic of Reality, which is aimed at kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-TFIxW1d10


I'm perfectly fine with atheists doing this if they so wish with their own children. I just find it pretty hypocritical that they have such a fit with people of faith doing the same thing with their children.


It's not hypocritical. It's about teaching the truth and giving kids a fair chance in life. What is hypocritical is beliving is denying evolution, but being perfectly happy to use antibiotics.


No need to twist it into something I didn't say...I'm speaking merely of people teaching their kids what they see fit, whether it be their belief of atheism or faith.

Regardless, I have heard hypocrite atheists decry how people of faith teaching their children about it is abusive but I'm guessing they'd have no problem with a book about "The Magic of Reality" being aimed at kids.


You got your terms mixed up here. One can't believe in atheism, because it itself is the rejection of all belief. The Magic of Reality is simply a science book for kids, about the magic of reality - meaning how actually stuff works, void of any supernatural being. One doesn't need a God to explain what the sun is or where Man came from anymore.

I don't see how teaching your kids about how the world works can be abusive.
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Postby Rip Rokken » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:50 am

Duncan wrote:The clip below is an interview with Richard Dawkins about his new book The Magic of Reality, which is aimed at kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-TFIxW1d10


They had this at the Texas Freethought Convention, and Dawkins had a special meeting with kids too. I also bought another children's book by another author, and it was cool talking to her. Her approach in the story was to tell all sides - basically, not to bash religion, but to let kids know there were several different types of belief.
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Postby artist4perry » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:58 am

parfait wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Duncan wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Duncan wrote:The clip below is an interview with Richard Dawkins about his new book The Magic of Reality, which is aimed at kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-TFIxW1d10


I'm perfectly fine with atheists doing this if they so wish with their own children. I just find it pretty hypocritical that they have such a fit with people of faith doing the same thing with their children.


It's not hypocritical. It's about teaching the truth and giving kids a fair chance in life. What is hypocritical is beliving is denying evolution, but being perfectly happy to use antibiotics.


No need to twist it into something I didn't say...I'm speaking merely of people teaching their kids what they see fit, whether it be their belief of atheism or faith.

Regardless, I have heard hypocrite atheists decry how people of faith teaching their children about it is abusive but I'm guessing they'd have no problem with a book about "The Magic of Reality" being aimed at kids.


You got your terms mixed up here. One can't believe in atheism, because it itself is the rejection of all belief. The Magic of Reality is simply a science book for kids, about the magic of reality - meaning how actually stuff works, void of any supernatural being. One doesn't need a God to explain what the sun is or where Man came from anymore.

I don't see how teaching your kids about how the world works can be abusive.


So you don't think the evolution/big bang is true?

be·lief/biˈlēf/
Noun:

1. An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2. Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
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Postby Rip Rokken » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:05 am

Here's an interesting story that I was a witness to a few weeks ago. A Christian business owner was offended by Skepticon, and temporarily posted a sign in his window that we were not welcome at his Christian business. Someone took a photo and uploaded it, it went viral, and his online review rating started taking a big hit. Some of the people behind the conference were concerned and contacted him, he made an apology, and they've been working to counter any negative flack he took.

Check the story:

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comment ... _andy_are/

He's grateful to have been forgiven, and in another article I read, it was mentioned that his sign was actually illegal - but the organizers had no intent to sue him because forgiveness is very important to humanistic practice. I wouldn't expect any less from them. Next time I'm up that way I'll be sure to stop in for some gelato.
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Postby parfait » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:13 am

artist4perry wrote:
parfait wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Duncan wrote:
conversationpc wrote:
Duncan wrote:The clip below is an interview with Richard Dawkins about his new book The Magic of Reality, which is aimed at kids.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-TFIxW1d10


I'm perfectly fine with atheists doing this if they so wish with their own children. I just find it pretty hypocritical that they have such a fit with people of faith doing the same thing with their children.


It's not hypocritical. It's about teaching the truth and giving kids a fair chance in life. What is hypocritical is beliving is denying evolution, but being perfectly happy to use antibiotics.


No need to twist it into something I didn't say...I'm speaking merely of people teaching their kids what they see fit, whether it be their belief of atheism or faith.

Regardless, I have heard hypocrite atheists decry how people of faith teaching their children about it is abusive but I'm guessing they'd have no problem with a book about "The Magic of Reality" being aimed at kids.


You got your terms mixed up here. One can't believe in atheism, because it itself is the rejection of all belief. The Magic of Reality is simply a science book for kids, about the magic of reality - meaning how actually stuff works, void of any supernatural being. One doesn't need a God to explain what the sun is or where Man came from anymore.

I don't see how teaching your kids about how the world works can be abusive.


So you don't think the evolution/big bang is true?

be·lief/biˈlēf/
Noun:

1. An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2. Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.


Haha. Handpicking quotes, huh? Put in the whole description next time:

- an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists:
his belief in the value of hard work | a belief that solitude nourishes creativity

- something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction:
contrary to popular belief, Aramaic is a living language we’re prepared to fight for our beliefs

- a religious conviction: Christian beliefs | I’m afraid to say belief has gone | local beliefs and customs

Link: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/belief?region=us
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Postby Gideon » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:15 am

Ginger is playing semantics, but it's still true. Atheism is a collection of beliefs.
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Postby conversationpc » Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:54 pm

parfait wrote:
artist4perry wrote:So you don't think the evolution/big bang is true?

be·lief/biˈlēf/
Noun:

1. An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2. Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.


Haha. Handpicking quotes, huh? Put in the whole description next time:

- an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists:
his belief in the value of hard work | a belief that solitude nourishes creativity

- something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction:
contrary to popular belief, Aramaic is a living language we’re prepared to fight for our beliefs

- a religious conviction: Christian beliefs | I’m afraid to say belief has gone | local beliefs and customs

Link: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/belief?region=us


Since atheism, just like belief in God, cannot be proven or disproven by any physical evidence then, yes, it is every bit as much of a belief as faith is. Looking at that objectively and not through the lens of either belief in faith or belief in atheism, the only ones that really have it right are agnostics.
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Postby Gideon » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:05 pm

conversationpc wrote:
parfait wrote:
artist4perry wrote:So you don't think the evolution/big bang is true?

be·lief/biˈlēf/
Noun:

1. An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2. Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.


Haha. Handpicking quotes, huh? Put in the whole description next time:

- an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists:
his belief in the value of hard work | a belief that solitude nourishes creativity

- something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction:
contrary to popular belief, Aramaic is a living language we’re prepared to fight for our beliefs

- a religious conviction: Christian beliefs | I’m afraid to say belief has gone | local beliefs and customs

Link: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/belief?region=us


Since atheism, just like belief in God, cannot be proven or disproven by any physical evidence then, yes, it is every bit as much of a belief as faith is. Looking at that objectively and not through the lens of either belief in faith or belief in atheism, the only ones that really have it right are agnostics.


Hey, I just said this!
Don't you know that my word is law? We need not discuss the is-atheism-a-form-of-belief angle any further! :lol:
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