2011-2012 NFL Season Thread

General Intelligent Discussion & One Thread About That Buttknuckle

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Postby YoungJRNY » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:27 am

Sorry dude, but it isn't "nowadays". Boston has ALWAYS been one of the best sports cities in this country. There is more to being a good sports city than just winning championships. For starters, you actually need a fanbase who can support four professional teams. I can assure you that in spite of your previous post about Boston's successes over the past decade, Boston wasn't some fledgling sports cities until the year 2000. I'm much older than you are and was already 30 years old in 2000 and I promise you that the fans of Boston didn't just start paying attention to sports in the year 2000. I realize that these names may not mean much to you, but you do realize that Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Larry Bird, and Bobby Orr all played in Boston right? You know that the Red Sox, Bruins and Celtics are all original teams to the leagues they play in, right? Save me this complete and utter bullshit that Boston was just like Cleveland. Even Cleveland fans wouldn't buy that!


Regardless of how much older you are than me, I understand the importance of Boston sports. I'll never dispute that because I understand their history and legacy as a sports city. What I was getting at is that even with their rich history (just like Pittsburgh) Boston was tortured at one point in time and was considered as a sports city that lose their groove. Like I mentioned above, the Pats never won a Super Bowl before 2001, the Celtics (arguably Boston's pride and joy) went 15 years on a title drought, the Bruins went 30 years without a cup and we all know about the Red Sox and the heatbreak their fans dealt with. With Boston now that latter once again, a sports city that was on snooze, their accomplishments of years past are again rejuvenated as who they are as a city. I've never said Boston is a bad sports city but stop acting like Pittsburgh and their history is.


Right, and without the Steelers, you're home to a sport that nobody really gives a shit about! Your argument about basketball and baseball borders on moronic.


The Steelers will always be the definition of Pittsburgh and rightfully so. Nothing wrong with that and it shouldn't take away from what the Pirates franchise did as well as the Penguins. Those 2 other sports still has a rich and successful history. Lets not discount what the Penguins mean to Pittsburgh regardless if basketball and baseball are far more popular in this country than hockey. Again, basketball is out of the question because Pittsburgh doesn't own a team but stop acting like the Pirates suck like they actually have an opportunity to do any good. MLB makes it almost virtually impossible and tough for the Pirates to be successful but even all of that, the Pirates still have a solid fanbase and still issue out hope of a winning season even though we all know it's likely not to happen! When you think of Pittsburgh, sports comes to mind. I don't care how the argument will be twisted in the name of obvious hatred.
Last edited by YoungJRNY on Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Don » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:28 am

From my own memories, I recall back in the 70s Boston being a big time sports town when it came to the Celtics and Bruins.
With the NHL still being a blue collar sport at that time, its popularity was on par with the NBA.
I think the league got too full itself with expansion and entered markets that were never really going to be totally hockey friendly. Add that in with the talent pool getting spread too thin and the sport collapsed into itself.
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Postby YoungJRNY » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:12 pm

I just realized something for some reason. MR is totally dominated by AFC North fans, haha.

Ravens- AR
Browns- Matt
Bengals- Fact Finder, slucero, Deano (I think he said he liked Cinci) Prog (what happened to Prog?)
Steelers- Me, Stu

-------------------------

Patriots- John, S2M
Cowboys- Rick
RWF- Raiders
Deano- Seahawks as well?
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Postby YoungJRNY » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:44 pm

My top 10 heading into Week 13:

1. Green Bay Packers
------------------------------

2. Baltimore Ravens
3. New Orleans Saints
4. New England Patriots
5. Pittsburgh Steelers
6. San Francisco 49'ers
7. Houston Texans
8. Atlanta Falcons
9. Dallas Cowboys
10. Cincinnati Bengals

Next 3: Oakland Raiders, Chicago Bears, Detroit Lions
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Postby AR » Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:32 pm

YoungJRNY wrote:I just realized something for some reason. MR is totally dominated by AFC North fans, haha.

Ravens- AR
Browns- Matt
Bengals- Fact Finder, slucero, Deano (I think he said he liked Cinci) Prog (what happened to Prog?)
Steelers- Me, Stu

-------------------------

Patriots- John, S2M
Cowboys- Rick
RWF- Raiders
Deano- Seahawks as well?


Add JSS = Steelers
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Postby Enigma869 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:23 pm

Funny shit. Nick Novak taking a piss on the sidelines during a game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltsSie5i5Do
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Postby Yoda » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:46 am

YoungJRNY wrote:I just realized something for some reason. MR is totally dominated by AFC North fans, haha.

Ravens- AR
Browns- Matt
Bengals- Fact Finder, slucero, Deano (I think he said he liked Cinci) Prog (what happened to Prog?)
Steelers- Me, Stu

-------------------------

Patriots- John, S2M
Cowboys- Rick
RWF- Raiders
Deano- Seahawks as well?


Yoda - Redskins
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Postby Ehwmatt » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:54 am

Fact Finder wrote:Jack Del Rio fired as Jaguars Coach...


Others on the hot seat:

Norv Turner (seriously, how is he still around?)

Mike Shanahan(?)

Andy Reid

Steve Spagnuolo

Tony Sparano

Ken Whisenhunt (is he? haven't heard a lot of buzz, but that team seems stuck in one place...)

Todd Haley

I don't think Leslie Frazier (MIN) is on the hot seat, but many of his assistants reportedly are on the way out. But I think those were other leftovers from the Childress regime. Frazier deserves a decent shot. But apparently he was the one who advocated bringing McNabb in over other front office objections, so that could be working against him in a big way.
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Postby YoungJRNY » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:28 am

Texans sign QB Jake Delhomme. What an up and down process going on for Houston and their fans. No telling how the South willl end up.
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Postby Ehwmatt » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:30 am

YoungJRNY wrote:Texans sign QB Jake Delhomme. What an up and down process going on for Houston and their fans. No telling how the South willl end up.


What's the story with David Garrard? Are these injury rumors true? I gotta believe he'd be a better option than Delhomme. He's HORRIBLE. I haven't seen whether they plan to start Delhomme or use him as Yates's backup. I will say I think Delhomme was a very good mentor for Colt McCoy last year and I think McCoy's stagnation is partly due to Delhomme not being around anymore. But still... as an actual player at this point? Yikes.

EDIT: Looks like Delhomme will be competing for the #2 spot with Kellen Clemens right now
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Postby Enigma869 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:32 am

Former Raider Chester McGlockton Dead

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Ch ... 59873.html
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Postby Don » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:32 am

Great article on QBing with Aaron Rodgers.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/72951 ... b-ever-had


FLEMING: In Week 9 against the Chargers, your third touchdown was a 21-yard pass to receiver James Jones in which you audibled out of a run play at the line of scrimmage, froze the deep safety with your eyes and then threw a ball that seemed to materialize in Jones' hands when he reached the end zone. What does it feel like to be in a zone like this?

RODGERS: It's a lot of fun. It feels fluid. I used to play baseball, and it's like when you're hitting it on the label, or the barrel of the bat. You don't feel anything, just fluid contact, and you just know you hit the ball on the sweet spot with clean power every time. When you're throwing the football the way you want to, you're not thinking about it. You're not thinking about your drop or your release point or the trajectory or where your feet are. It's just coming off your hand exactly the way you want it to, fluid and confident. You're getting good snap on it, a good spiral, and it's ending up exactly where you want it. That's when the game becomes fun, when you can put the ball exactly where you want it. You just react naturally and let all the fundamentals and muscle memory that you've built up take over. It's that feeling of being in total control.

Is part of that getting to a place where complicated reads, such as the TD to Jones, just become second nature?
It's quicker reactions and being more decisive with my checks. When you really start figuring things out as a quarterback, you realize you don't have to be perfect every time, but you do have to be quick and decisive. On that play, we had James on the left and Greg Jennings on the right. The pass check was for James to run a man-beater route -- a route with a double move that works well against single coverage. We were hoping the Chargers would go to a one-high safety look. Instead, they played more quarters, where each DB plays a quarter of the field, and they used high-low coverage on Greg. My quick reaction was that we still have man coverage on the other side with James, who is running a man-beater route. It wasn't perfect, but we still had good options to work with.

Jim Zorn once told me that each year a quarterback's motion should become simpler, shorter and smoother. Is that happening with you?
I don't know about shorter but definitely smoother. I'm at a point where there isn't any wasted movement in the throwing motion. Everything is consistent and smooth. When I first got into the league, I held the ball really high. That was the standard in college, and it messed up my timing a little bit -- the draw, bringing it back, then the release. Even in my seventh year, I'm still trying to break old habits I learned as a kid. You're taught to get back as deep as you can as quick as you can, but you can never throw the ball out on time when you do that. Learning to time up my drop with each route has been a big thing for me. It allows me to throw the ball in rhythm and hit the same release point with every throw, meaning that no matter what else is happening, the ball comes out on a similar plane. That's when accuracy comes.

Once that happens, is that when you're free to start perfecting all the other little things about the position?
That's 100 percent accurate. First, the fundamentals, then you have to become an expert in your own offense. Then you can get to a point where you're attacking instead of reacting. Rich Gannon told me this back in 2006: You'll know you're at a good level by the things you're thinking about when you break the huddle. If you're thinking about your own guys -- what routes they have, who has what -- you're not thinking about the right things. You should be thinking at the next level. What's my protection adjustment? Where's the stress in the protection? What am I going to do, reaction-wise, if they show me a different coverage? That's when you know you're playing the game the way you want to.

And that's where you are now?
When I break the huddle now, I know what my guys are doing. I know the areas they're going to be in. When you're dropping back, you're not looking at your own guys. You're feeling flashes and movements of defenders in your peripheral vision, and you're reacting to what those tell you on the other side of the ball. I know if I see a linebacker go this way, that means they're probably playing a certain coverage, and that means I'm either going to have this receiver open or this other guy open. If I see the defense rotating a certain way or going to a certain pressure, I know now what coverage they're probably playing behind it, and I know I have to get the ball out quickly. If we have the play protected, then I go into my reads downfield.

So it's like a pyramid, where you master a level of quarterbacking and then go up a step and fine-tune?
It takes awhile to get there, especially for guys who are thrust into playing immediately. That's why I give a lot of credit to Andy Dalton, Cam Newton and Christian Ponder -- quarterbacks who are playing in their rookie years and playing well. It's really tough to figure it out, and I guarantee, talk to those guys in two or three years and they'll say, "Man, I really didn't know what I was doing my rookie year." Playing the quarterback position, there are so many things you need to master that improvement ends up taking place on graduated levels.

Are the eyes a 98th percentile thing for quarterbacks, one of the final things you master as an elite thrower?
It is one of the last things. Tom Clements, our quarterbacks coach, broke down Tom Brady's entire season a few years ago, and there were very few times in 550 or so passes when Tom didn't look a defender off. You have to look guys off to complete passes in the NFL. But when you study Tom, you learn it's about the feet as much as the eyes. When you look a guy off, your feet already have to be lined up where you plan to throw, but your eyes have to go to the target late.

You do all this stuff, and some of it takes years to develop, just to get a defender to take one wrong step?
Not even a step. Just to shift his weight the wrong way, to lean one way or the other. It's all about windows. Creating windows. Moving guys to create windows to throw into. The windows are so much smaller in the pros than in college. So you have to use everything -- including your eyes -- to move a linebacker or a safety or a defender curling out into the flat just to get him to step to his left in order to throw to a guy open behind him.

Another little thing you've improved is your body language on play-action fakes.
That was one thing I really worked on in the off-season a couple of years ago. I had the pleasure of playing golf with Tom Brady and got to pick his brain a little bit. One of the things I took away from that was that he is very critical of himself from the previous year, and he uses that to find one, two or three things that he wants to improve on each off-season. For me, that was my ballhandling.

But part of me still thinks, Come on, you're throwing for 4,000 yards. Does it really matter if you lean over six inches more on a run fake?
Peyton Manning would say so. He is sacked very few times, and that's because, one, he has great pocket presence, and two, he's so good with those fakes that they not only hold the linebacker but also slow down the rush. People don't think much about it, but by staying disciplined and using the same body language on a run or a pass, Peyton gives himself more time and a bigger window to throw the ball. That's not a little thing. As an offense, I know we feel like those intricate things you do intentionally can really add up to make a big difference.

So the idea that football is a game of inches is more than just a cliche?
Look at our biggest play from our last drive of the Super Bowl. We're only up by three, and on third and 10, we run Greg Jennings down the middle of the field and connect for a 31-yard gain. If you look at that play on the game film from the end zone, Steelers corner Ike Taylor gets his pinky on the ball and changes the trajectory but not enough to make Greg drop it. If Taylor gets one more knuckle on the ball, everything changes. An inch one way or the other and it might be a totally different outcome in the Super Bowl. Afterward, everybody was like, "How did that happen?" But that's a play we've worked on for years. Years. That's where all this comes from -- to be able to step into that throw, with seven minutes left in the Super Bowl, up by less than a touchdown, knowing it's third down and you have to make a play. I've thrown that ball to Greg, that same exact ball, 100 times in practice. Same exact route. So when I break the huddle, that's what's flashing in my mind. I've completed this throw in my mind 1,000 times before the ball even leaves my hand.

You're talking about visualization?
I don't know whether other quarterbacks use it, but visualization has been very important to me. When I have a lot of confidence in a play, as soon as the huddle breaks it's immediately flashing in my head -- a picture in my mind for just a millisecond. "Oh, hey, three Wednesdays ago we ran this play in practice against the scout team, and I hit Greg on this route." I can see it.

What does it look like?
It's a picture of a play, a successful play, flashing through my mind each time I walk to the line of scrimmage.
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Postby Enigma869 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:44 am

Young Eagles fan crying over how much he hates Tom Brady. Hiarious!

http://www.nesn.com/2011/11/tom-brady-m ... downs.html
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Postby Don » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:22 am

Enigma869 wrote:Former Raider Chester McGlockton Dead

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Ch ... 59873.html


They are saying possible heart attack. He lost a lot of weight but had quite a few other ailments he was getting shot up for.
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Postby Enigma869 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:43 pm

Seattle versus Philadelphia - After watching the Eagles play against the Patriots last week, I came away convinced that they won't win another game this season. The Eagles are lost, and Andy Reid is a month away from being unemployed. I suspect that this will be a very close game. I still like the Eagles to win it by 7.
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Postby Ehwmatt » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:54 pm

Enigma869 wrote:Seattle versus Philadelphia - After watching the Eagles play against the Patriots last week, I came away convinced that they won't win another game this season. The Eagles are lost, and Andy Reid is a month away from being unemployed. I suspect that this will be a very close game. I still like the Eagles to win it by 7.


I figured the Eagles would not live up to the hype this year (particularly Vick), but I never could have imagined this type of slide. I won't be wishing I had the NFL Network tonight to watch this crappy game :shock:
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Postby Enigma869 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:53 am

Fact Finder wrote:If Pittsburgh quarterback Ben Roethlisberger had a vote for the NFL Rookie of the Year it would go to Andy Dalton, his Bengals counterpart.

“Right now I think, and I don’t know how the talk is, but he’s rookie of the year,” said Roethlisberger Wednesday on a conference with Cincinnati media. “I think he’s that good of a quarterback.”

The Bengals and Steelers meet for the second time in four games this Sunday at Pittsburgh. The Steelers won the first matchup, 24-17, but Roethlisberger came away impressed with how Dalton handled an early 14-0 deficit. Dalton rallied the Bengals to a 17-17 tie but the Steelers intercepted him twice in the fourth quarter to preserve the win.

“He does (things) that you just don’t see or expect from rookie quarterbacks,” said Roethlisberger. “In college you can wait for guys to get open and throw it, (but) he throws it before guys are coming out of their breaks, before guys are getting into their holes, as he’s getting pressured.”

Dalton is on pace to throw for 3,649 yards and 23 touchdowns this season. Carolina quarterback Cam Newton has been considered the favorite to win the Rookie of the Year award but national perception may be changing because the Bengals are 7-4 and in playoff contention.

Dalton and Newton’s stats are near identical – Newton has more attempts, completions and yardage while Dalton has more touchdowns and fewer interceptions – but the Panthers are just 3-8.


A couple of points. I've said it before...I love Dalton as a QB. He is a prototypical NFL QB (Cam Newton is not). That said, the records of the respective teams shouldn't have a thing to do with who wins Rookie of the Year. It's not an MVP award. Peyton Manning won the Rookie of the Year Award, and I believe his team won 2 or 3 games. I personally prefer Dalton's style over Cam Newton's style for the NFL game. But, I suspect the award will probably go to Newton. Newton is currently ranked 7th in passing yards (Dalton is 16th). Newton has a higher completion percentage, and I think the one thing voters may not overlook is that he is very likely going to break a long-standing record for rushing TD's by a QB. With all the mobile QB's over the years (Cunningham, Young, Culpepper, Vick), it's still shocking to me that Steve Grogan still holds that record, which is 12. Newton currently has 10, so it's going to be tough for him not to break that record. There is still some football to be played for these two guys, so things could change 4 weeks from now. In either case, I believe the Bengals have their best QB since Boomer.
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Postby Ehwmatt » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:01 am

Enigma869 wrote:
Fact Finder wrote:If Pittsburgh quarterback Ben Roethlisberger had a vote for the NFL Rookie of the Year it would go to Andy Dalton, his Bengals counterpart.

“Right now I think, and I don’t know how the talk is, but he’s rookie of the year,” said Roethlisberger Wednesday on a conference with Cincinnati media. “I think he’s that good of a quarterback.”

The Bengals and Steelers meet for the second time in four games this Sunday at Pittsburgh. The Steelers won the first matchup, 24-17, but Roethlisberger came away impressed with how Dalton handled an early 14-0 deficit. Dalton rallied the Bengals to a 17-17 tie but the Steelers intercepted him twice in the fourth quarter to preserve the win.

“He does (things) that you just don’t see or expect from rookie quarterbacks,” said Roethlisberger. “In college you can wait for guys to get open and throw it, (but) he throws it before guys are coming out of their breaks, before guys are getting into their holes, as he’s getting pressured.”

Dalton is on pace to throw for 3,649 yards and 23 touchdowns this season. Carolina quarterback Cam Newton has been considered the favorite to win the Rookie of the Year award but national perception may be changing because the Bengals are 7-4 and in playoff contention.

Dalton and Newton’s stats are near identical – Newton has more attempts, completions and yardage while Dalton has more touchdowns and fewer interceptions – but the Panthers are just 3-8.


A couple of points. I've said it before...I love Dalton as a QB. He is a prototypical NFL QB (Cam Newton is not). That said, the records of the respective teams shouldn't have a thing to do with who wins Rookie of the Year. It's not an MVP award. Peyton Manning won the Rookie of the Year Award, and I believe his team won 2 or 3 games. I personally prefer Dalton's style over Cam Newton's style for the NFL game. But, I suspect the award will probably go to Newton. Newton is currently ranked 7th in passing yards (Dalton is 16th). Newton has a higher completion percentage, and I think the one thing voters may not overlook is that he is very likely going to break a long-standing record for rushing TD's by a QB. With all the mobile QB's over the years (Cunningham, Young, Culpepper, Vick), it's still shocking to me that Steve Grogan still holds that record, which is 12. Newton currently has 10, so it's going to be tough for him not to break that record. There is still some football to be played for these two guys, so things could change 4 weeks from now. In either case, I believe the Bengals have their best QB since Boomer.


I really haven't had a chance to see Newton play this year other than highlights and looking at box scores. The guy's had some gaudy numbers-type games, but it seems he's pretty pick-happy. Will he ever be a good NFL QB? Intuition tells me no, but I don't have any first-hand basis for concluding so.
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Postby Enigma869 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:48 am

Ehwmatt wrote:I really haven't had a chance to see Newton play this year other than highlights and looking at box scores. The guy's had some gaudy numbers-type games, but it seems he's pretty pick-happy.


He has only two more picks than Dalton.
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Postby Ehwmatt » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:49 am

Enigma869 wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:I really haven't had a chance to see Newton play this year other than highlights and looking at box scores. The guy's had some gaudy numbers-type games, but it seems he's pretty pick-happy.


He has only two more picks than Dalton.


I feel like Newton has been more consistent about tossing picks game-to-game, whereas Dalton has played a few rough INT games. Maybe I'm overestimating. Don't have time to get the numbers. I'm still not sure he'll be THAT successful as a QB. What do you think?
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Postby Enigma869 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:23 am

Ehwmatt wrote:I feel like Newton has been more consistent about tossing picks game-to-game, whereas Dalton has played a few rough INT games. Maybe I'm overestimating. Don't have time to get the numbers. I'm still not sure he'll be THAT successful as a QB. What do you think?


I never really thought Newton's game transalated to the NFL well. He is having a FAR better rookie season than I ever thought he would. I mean...the guy may throw for 4000 yards, which is an elite number for QB's in an NFL season. I never thought he would ever come close to passing yards like that...let alone in his rookie season. That said, I think guys like Newton (think Mike Vick) who rely solely upon running around never last long in the NFL, in terms of having long term success. I think Dalton will ultimately be the better pro QB, after one year of returns.
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Postby Red13JoePa » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:27 am

Eagles have their 5th "last chance to salvage the season" tonight..
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Postby Ehwmatt » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:28 am

Enigma869 wrote:
Ehwmatt wrote:I feel like Newton has been more consistent about tossing picks game-to-game, whereas Dalton has played a few rough INT games. Maybe I'm overestimating. Don't have time to get the numbers. I'm still not sure he'll be THAT successful as a QB. What do you think?


I never really thought Newton's game transalated to the NFL well. He is having a FAR better rookie season than I ever thought he would. I mean...the guy may throw for 4000 yards, which is an elite number for QB's in an NFL season. I never thought he would ever come close to passing yards like that...let alone in his rookie season. That said, I think guys like Newton (think Mike Vick) who rely solely upon running around never last long in the NFL, in terms of having long term success. I think Dalton will ultimately be the better pro QB, after one year of returns.


That's what my intuition tells me too. But I admittedly have no first-hand observational evidence to back it up.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:01 am

Red13JoePa wrote:Eagles have their 5th "last chance to salvage the season" tonight..


They don't even have another last chance. They are done.
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Postby conversationpc » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:03 am

Enigma869 wrote:With all the mobile QB's over the years (Cunningham, Young, Culpepper, Vick), it's still shocking to me that Steve Grogan still holds that record, which is 12.


Wow...I never would've guessed that.
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Postby Yoda » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:03 am

conversationpc wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:Eagles have their 5th "last chance to salvage the season" tonight..


They don't even have another last chance. They are done.


Heck if they still have a chance at the playoffs, then so do the Redskins since they both have the same record, and we all know my team ain't headed to the playoffs this year! :lol:
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Postby YoungJRNY » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:24 am

Eagles @ Seahawks: There's something about the Seahawks team that I like for some reason. Maybe it's Marshawn Lynch or maybe it's just them playing at home and that Seattle crowd. The Eagles, after getting buried by New England, has to travel on a short-week to Seattle after the Seahawks lost a close one to Washington. The wheels are off and the metal from the wheels are screeching against the gravel for Philadelphia at the moment. The Seahawks are without WR Sidney Rice due to a concussion so that makes this pick even harder. Yet another "could go either way" pick of the week. I think the Seattle defense gets it done. Seahawks by 6.
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Postby S2M » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:37 am

NE by 17+++
Tom Brady IS the G.O.A.T.
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Postby YoungJRNY » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:44 am

S2M wrote:NE by 17+++


So you have N.E by 17 (+++) or (x3.) You have the Patriots over Colts by 51 (17X3)? This we might agree with. :lol:
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Postby Enigma869 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:34 am

YoungJRNY wrote:So you have N.E by 17 (+++) or (x3.) You have the Patriots over Colts by 51 (17X3)? This we might agree with. :lol:


Not so fast on the Patriots by that much Travis. Remember, this is the same Colts team who almost (and should have) beat the Steelers. The Colts played the Steelers tougher than New England did!
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