President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Blueskies]

seems to be stories to contradict stories. some say it works, some say it doesn't. i'm on the "doesn't work" side. i would rather err on the side of caution. it is not a good thing for the u.s. to have blood on her hands, not as we hold ourselves as a pillar of morality amongst nations.

After pages of discussion, I definitely respect your opinion. I DO think it saved lives, but I understand if you don't want to even go down that road. And by the way..if I were President I couldn't order it....and probably couldn't execute if ordered to do it...but I want people in positions that are willing to do it if it saves life, because I don't want to feel like I did on 9-11 again. How's that for a hypocrite!?

there isn't a person here who wouldn't have gone through any means it took to wipe that from our history. if they deny it then they are not being honest.

I am being honest with you...I would not use any means necessary..that only cries out desperation in possibly being overpowered and defeated. Just like Tyson did in the analogy I mentioned..and also why people like the 9/11 terrorists resort to barbarism...they are uncivilized acts of desperation when they are overwhelmed with failure and defeat.....only barbaric people that are at a loss to come up with any other means to try to get what they want have to resort to "any means necessary". We were not "defeated" on 9/11 so we didn't have to..still don't have to resort to "any means necessary" to win in the end.

Like I said...if Holyfield did the same would he have won in the end?..would he have come out of the fight with more or less respect then Tyson? Wouldn't he then be viewed as being on the same level as Tyson and lost respect too if he did the same in return or worse? See...that's what has happened to us when others around the world view US policy...the differences that are seen between what we say and what we do. How we put ourselves up as an example for others to follow. We have to practice what we preach and not resort to the same barbarism as our enemies.

We have to fight by our moral convictions or not fight at all...when we lose our convictions which we use as justifications we not only lose our standing...any respect we have...we also show our enemies that we have to resort to acts of desperation as well...which shows weakness. Something may be gained momentarily by resorting to " any" means but in the long run we will have lost much more then we gained...just like the terrorists will lose in the end by their tactics. We have to go with our convictions and hold to them...we have to use our heads and not just our fists.

so in your mind we shouldn't punish criminals because two wrongs don't make a right? so the guy who shot & murdered that women he met on craig's list... we shouldn't put him away or worse if he's found gulity because hey... 2 wrongs don't make a right.

your mike tyson/holyfield analogy makes no sense really. are you saying that america uses harsh means of interrogation because our enemies do more & worse? that if we didn't they would stop cutting off heads or never would have in the first place?

i guess i really don't give a poop if our gov might do something questionable if it's a last effort & saves innocent people. if 911 could have been stopped i wouldn't care much if they had to dunk some heads into water. a child crying because they lost a parent or both... or a terrorist having bad dreams... hmm... i would give that child back their childhood. fuck the terrorist... they can...

rot in hell.

Where in the world did you read into what I have said, that I don't think criminals should be punished???
There are ways to punish without resorting to doing the same things the criminal has done. By your standards you are saying that we should do the same things or worse to the criminals as they have done. Does that mean we should have chopped up, cooked and eaten Dahmer instead of sentencing him to prison?? Hey maybe you would want to chop him up and have a taste but I wouldn't! All kidding aside that is really not a far off analogy either....it's to the point....we should not resort to committing the same kinds of crimes as the criminals....they are supposed to be the barbarians and we are supposed to stand on a higher ground then that. We need to be more intelligent and have higher standards than those we are fighting. The whole point in fighting them is to try to stop the barbarism...not to become barbarians ourselves.

To your second point about the Tyson analogy:
You need to stop a minute and go back and really read what I said. You are the one saying that " America uses harsh measures of interrogation because our enemies do more or worse" . Again,......
My point is that we should not resort to doing the same or worse...if we do we are seen just as uncivilized and barbaric as those we fight. Will the criminals still cut off peoples heads if we don't use torture on those we catch? Probably, yes.....but they will also still do it if we do torture those we catch...probably even increase their barbaristic tactics in retaliation to ours. We have to be smarter then our enemies and not sink down to barbaristic tactics in return.

We have to have justification for our reasons to fight and if we don't have some standards...some moral authority for fighting... then we become the same and our justification is lost....our standing in the world is lost. We should interrogate and fight with intelligence not torture...the terrorists use torture...torture is terrorism in every sense of the word..it's done to terrorize someone into capitulation..so if we use torture we become terrorists as well. We have to have right on our side...and the only way to keep it is not to resort to the same kinds of tactics as our enemies.

[Rockindeano]

It's no fun having to defend 'your guy' all the time, is it?

I don't have to defend "my guy." He is doing a very good job and I am not the only one saying this. His poll numbers are high, the country is on the right track, and the Democrats are in power. All you who are on the other side can bitch all you want. You have 7 more years til we see Newt v Hillary. For the next 2100 days or so, enjoy it..or don't, I don't care. I just stir it up in here because some of the Cons in here are so fucking laughable, I enjoy seeing them shit themselves. TNC does my work for me. I'd say he cleaned everybody's clock pretty good.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Dean, my daughter is 8 years old and even she knows to put her hand over her heart for the SSB and POA. I don't buy your excuse at all... It's about respect, plain and simple.

Putting your hand over your heart is only customary for the POA, not SSB - and Obama was standing in respect.
Bush's Office of Legal Council essentially declared the first and fourth amendments dead letters, and yet you want to question Obama's dedication to the stars and stripes?
I'll gladly have that argument...

He didn't wear the flag lapel pin; it was an act of rebellion if you ask me,..

So a cheap metal trinket made in China is now the litmus for how much one loves one's country?
Too funny.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Yeah, I'm race-baiting. Why don't you throw in "sexist" in there while your at it. The photo has a woman with her hand over her heart not to mention a man who's hispanic like myself. Typical lib, name calling know nothing

I don't care what you are.
The fact remains, if a white politician was standing during the SSB, you wouldn't say a word.
As with the circulated photo of Obama in somali garb, you're playing people for chumps and making political hay out of the racial unknown.

Answer me this: where were you and DP when these "traitorous America haters" went on TV with barely a flag pin in sight?

[treetopovskaya]

dean if you were so pissed at the bush administration instead of going after augeri/journey for lipping why didn't you focus more on letting the people in charge of our country know of your disapproval? instead you made it your soul purpose to bring down a band most people could care less about.

you complain a lot for someone who wasted so much time trying to bring down a rock band. LOL!!

you came across to me as a nut job.

[treetopovskaya]

TNC...

stop playing the race card. it makes you look weak... your arguments become weak. you have no come back so you have to throw out the old race card.

you tried that with me & it just doesn't work.

you're the one bringing up obama's skin color... you make it an issue when it's not. weak.

[The_Noble_Cause]

TNC...

stop playing the race card. it makes you look weak... your arguments become weak. you have no come back so you have to throw out the old race card.

- Were pictures of Obama decked in Somali garb circulated online to further spread the myth he was a Muslim - yes or no?
- Were quotes of Obama's book doctored to make it seem he sided with the Muslims (quotes that even found their way onto this very forum) - yes or no?
- Was Obama's black church microscopically scrutinized while Palin's Kenyan witch doctor pastor was given a free pass - yes or no?

Answer those questions and then tell me the "hand over the heart" non-scandal isn't another cynical ploy to capitalize on oogedy-boogedy "he's not like us" fears.

you tried that with me & it just doesn't work.

Considering you've never managed to rebuke ANYTHING anyone on here has said, this means nothing.
In fact, I'd say everyone who has responded to you in this thread so far, has decisively kicked your ignorant ass back over the Mason Dixon line.
BlueSkies, especially.
Even if the Republican Party did decide to dust off the Southern Strategy in 2012, you'd be too hickdumb recognize it.

you're the one bringing up obama's skin color... you make it an issue when it's not. weak.

Again, answer my questions.
Any of them.

[The_Noble_Cause]

dean if you were so pissed at the bush administration instead of going after augeri/journey for lipping why didn't you focus more on letting the people in charge of our country know of your disapproval? instead you made it your soul purpose to bring down a band most people could care less about.

you complain a lot for someone who wasted so much time trying to bring down a rock band. LOL!!

I didn't know preventing hardworking fans from getting fleeced and being a patriot were mutually exclusive.
Deano laid everything on the line for the Journey machine to stop shystering its fanbase, Dems, Repubs and Independents alike.
Fans like you owe him a tremendous debt of gratitude.

you came across to me as a nut job.

Well, was he 100% right or not?

[Rockindeano]

dean if you were so pissed at the bush administration instead of going after augeri/journey for lipping why didn't you focus more on letting the people in charge of our country know of your disapproval? instead you made it your soul purpose to bring down a band most people could care less about.

you complain a lot for someone who wasted so much time trying to bring down a rock band. LOL!!

you came across to me as a nut job.

Whatever. TNC and my work got Jeff a good job though right? We exposed a helluva fraudulent act too. Exposing those sonsofbitches was easy and I wish I could redo it, because I would have been smarter and more polite, but would have gone even further than I did.

By the way, it's sole, not soul.

PS- I'm the wack job? Ok Wendy, if you say so. I am never going to go ballistic on you, because you and your family were so damned nice to us during our dark hours. I will never forget that.

[treetopovskaya]

i am laughing at you right now. really. you really are just so lame... & phyl... i didn't reply to her last post (& i really tried!) cause she is just so out there i don't even know where to begin.

TNC...

stop playing the race card. it makes you look weak... your arguments become weak. you have no come back so you have to throw out the old race card.

- Were pictures of Obama decked in Somali garb circulated online to further spread the myth he was a Muslim - yes or no?
- Were quotes of Obama's book doctored to make it seem he sided with the Muslims (quotes that even found their way onto this very forum) - yes or no?
- Was Obama's black church microscopically scrutinized while Palin's Kenyan witch doctor pastor was given a free pass - yes or no?

Answer those questions and then tell me the "hand over the heart" non-scandal isn't another cynical ploy to capitalize on oogedy-boogedy "he's not like us" fears.

you tried that with me & it just doesn't work.

Considering you've never managed to rebuke ANYTHING anyone on here has said, this means nothing.
In fact, I'd say everyone who has responded to you in this thread so far, has decisively kicked your ignorant ass back over the Mason Dixon line.
BlueSkies, especially.
Even if the Republican Party did decide to dust off the Southern Strategy in 2012, you'd be too hickdumb recognize it.

you're the one bringing up obama's skin color... you make it an issue when it's not. weak.

Again, answer my questions.
Any of them.

[Rockindeano]

You should really answer TNC's questions, Wendy. Looks to me though as you can't. Put something out there for Christs sake!

[treetopovskaya]

don't you both already have the answers? anyone who isn't tripping over themselves to worship obama is a racist. nice.

You should really answer TNC's questions, Wendy. Looks to me though as you can't. Put something out there for Christs sake!

[Rockindeano]

don't you both already have the answers? anyone who isn't tripping over themselves to worship obama is a racist. nice.

You should really answer TNC's questions, Wendy. Looks to me though as you can't. Put something out there for Christs sake!

I never once said that or even hinted at that. I don't care what colour he is, he fucks up, I'll be all over his black ass.

Also, your quoting is so fucking hard to read, I am just skipping over it. It is too hard to read. Can't you just reply on the bottom like everyone else?

[treetopovskaya]

dean you defend that tnc but you don't tell him to back off when he goes after people you call "friends". he has called me names... even went after indyjoe when she came in here to defend me... wtf is that... indyjoe is one of the sweetest people you'll ever meet. where were you then? he has said some vile thing to barb... something about custard... so disgusting. it shows weakness. he can't debate... & when he feels like he's on the losing end he has to throw insults... & personal attacks. throw race cards... that doesn't work on me.

stu will have to stand behind me to spit in his face... i won't spit tho... i'll bring my salei gloves & give him a real good bitch slap.

next time i see you you'll get one too. asshole.

[The_Noble_Cause]

dean you defend that tnc but you don't tell him to back off when he goes after people you call "friends". he has called me names...

And when you broadbrushed Lula, Dean, 7, BK, and myself as "libfreaks", that doesn't fall under the category of perjorative shit slinging?
Other examples exist as well.
Quit your hypocritical bitching.

even went after indyjoe when she came in here to defend me... wtf is that... indyjoe is one of the sweetest people you'll ever meet. where were you then? he has said some vile thing to barb... something about custard... so disgusting.

If people like you or Barb are going to call the President "radical" or "anti-American" without seriously debating his policies, why should his supporters refrain from lobbing juvenile missives?

it shows weakness. he can't debate... & when he feels like he's on the losing end he has to throw insults... & personal attacks. throw race cards....

You’re like some nagging schoolmarm that says kids only pick on others to make themselves feel better. Tsk-tsk.
It's not that I'm at a loss to debate - quite the opposite.
From FISA to Geneva, I am ready to hold court on ANYTHING!
I'm just here calling a spade a spade.

stu will have to stand behind me to spit in his face... i won't spit tho... i'll bring my salei gloves & give him a real good bitch slap.

Right.
Because nothing quite says "I've got the moral high ground" in a debate like reverting to threats of violence.

[Blueskies]

i am laughing at you right now. really. you really are just so lame... & phyl... i didn't reply to her last post (& i really tried!) cause she is just so out there i don't even know where to begin.

TNC...

stop playing the race card. it makes you look weak... your arguments become weak. you have no come back so you have to throw out the old race card.

- Were pictures of Obama decked in Somali garb circulated online to further spread the myth he was a Muslim - yes or no?
- Were quotes of Obama's book doctored to make it seem he sided with the Muslims (quotes that even found their way onto this very forum) - yes or no?
- Was Obama's black church microscopically scrutinized while Palin's Kenyan witch doctor pastor was given a free pass - yes or no?

Answer those questions and then tell me the "hand over the heart" non-scandal isn't another cynical ploy to capitalize on oogedy-boogedy "he's not like us" fears.

you tried that with me & it just doesn't work.

Considering you've never managed to rebuke ANYTHING anyone on here has said, this means nothing.
In fact, I'd say everyone who has responded to you in this thread so far, has decisively kicked your ignorant ass back over the Mason Dixon line.
BlueSkies, especially.
Even if the Republican Party did decide to dust off the Southern Strategy in 2012, you'd be too hickdumb recognize it.

you're the one bringing up obama's skin color... you make it an issue when it's not. weak.

Again, answer my questions.
Any of them.

I'm the one out there? LOL! You are the one on here supporting torture tactics like waterboarding..and being a hypocrite about it saying you personally couldn't do it but you want other people to do it for you. If you support a practice than you should be willing to do it yourself...not expect someone else to do it out of your sight and then you walk away trying to convince yourself that your hands are still clean.
You didn't respond to the points I brought up because you couldn't come up with a coherent, reasoned rebuttal. Then instead of conceeding you lost the debate you instead hurl insults and name call...
makes me think that if someone was in a boxing match with you then you would resort to biting their ear when you're losing too .
I think I'll call you TY now instead of Tree.

[The_Noble_Cause]

don't you both already have the answers? anyone who isn't tripping over themselves to worship obama is a racist. nice.

If you're going to impugn Obama's patriotism for trivial shit that other candidates get a pass on (i.e. no flag lapel), then yes, your bluff should be called.

[Blueskies]

dean you defend that tnc but you don't tell him to back off when he goes after people you call "friends". he has called me names... even went after indyjoe when she came in here to defend me... wtf is that... indyjoe is one of the sweetest people you'll ever meet. where were you then? he has said some vile thing to barb... something about custard... so disgusting. it shows weakness. he can't debate... & when he feels like he's on the losing end he has to throw insults... & personal attacks. throw race cards... that doesn't work on me.

stu will have to stand behind me to spit in his face... i won't spit tho... i'll bring my salei gloves & give him a real good bitch slap.

next time i see you you'll get one too. asshole.

Isn't that what you just did to me? Did I insult you in any way in our discussion? No, I did not.
In your own words...it shows weakness and that you can't debate then , doesn't it.

[donnaplease]

don't you both already have the answers? anyone who isn't tripping over themselves to worship obama is a racist. nice.

If you're going to impugn Obama's patriotism for trivial shit that other candidates get a pass on (i.e. no flag lapel), then yes, your bluff should be called.

That was me, TNC. I didn't read back to see if she mentioned it too, but I'm the one that brought it up. Again, it wasn't the fact that he didn't wear one, it was the way he responded when called out on it that rubbed me the wrong way. All that was in response to Dean's argument that he was too 'green' to know to put his hand over his heart the way the others there had.

I do question his patriotism when compared to others because I believe some of the things that he's said and done are not in the best interest of our country and it's people. One needs to look no further than his wife, who before his candidacy had never been proud to be an American, to his preacher and all his anti-America remarks, to his friendships to see that there is reason to question him if one chooses to do so. I hope he will stand up and be a good and positive leader for this country. Nothing would make me happier. I just don't have a lot of faith that it will actually happen. You guys can call me stupid, and ask for proof and quotes and all kinds of other stuff. I may not be the most politically astute here, and I don't scour the internet looking for quotes and stuff. I just share my opinions to the best of my ability, based on my personal beliefs. I don't begrudge anyone else from doing that either.

I enjoy reading everyone's views on these topics, even when I don't agree with them.

[The_Noble_Cause]

That was me, TNC. I didn't read back to see if she mentioned it too, but I'm the one that brought it up. Again, it wasn't the fact that he didn't wear one, it was the way he responded when called out on it that rubbed me the wrong way.

I am speaking about you guys in general.
"Flag pin-gate" and "Star Spangled Banner-gate" aren't specific to any singular Con on this forum.
Treetop, RedWing, you - what difference does it make?
Each of these fake issues can be brandished as a political truncheon at will.
Just like the claims that Obama snubbed the troops (false) or that he was referencing Palin when used the adage of "lipstick on a pig" (also false).
It's all symptomatic of the Lee Atwater playbook of politics that's been in place since the 80's, and was cause for Bob Dole to at one point shout: "Stop Lying about my record!"
It's all glittery bullshit designed to seek and destroy.

I do question his patriotism when compared to others because I believe some of the things that he's said and done are not in the best interest of our country and it's people.

I'll ask you again.
Quote?

One needs to look no further than his wife, who before his candidacy had never been proud to be an American

I condemned her comments on this forum.
I agree those were out of line.

to his preacher and all his anti-America remarks,

Rev. Wright is a decorated vet, guilty only of Sunday morning fire and brimstone theatrics.
His HIV beliefs are misguided (tho anyone who knows about the Tuskegee experiment shouldn't fault him too harshly).
Other than that, his sermons are the harsh medicine more Americans need to hear - like Eisenhower's farsighted warning about the military industrial complex.

You guys can call me stupid, and ask for proof and quotes and all kinds of other stuff.

If you are going to condemn Obama's comments, then yes, that is not too high a level of expectation is it?

[donnaplease]

That was me, TNC. I didn't read back to see if she mentioned it too, but I'm the one that brought it up. Again, it wasn't the fact that he didn't wear one, it was the way he responded when called out on it that rubbed me the wrong way.

I am speaking about you guys in general.
"Flag pin-gate" and "Star Spangled Banner-gate" aren't specific to any singular Con on this forum.
Treetop, RedWing, you - what difference does it make?
Each of these fake issues can be brandished as a political truncheon at will.
Just like the claims that Obama snubbed the troops (false) or that he was referencing Palin when used the adage of "lipstick on a pig" (also false).
It's all symptomatic of the Lee Atwater playbook of politics that's been in place since the 80's, and was cause for Bob Dole to at one point shout: "Stop Lying about my record!"
It's all glittery bullshit designed to seek and destroy.

I do question his patriotism when compared to others because I believe some of the things that he's said and done are not in the best interest of our country and it's people.

I'll ask you again.
Quote?

One needs to look no further than his wife, who before his candidacy had never been proud to be an American

I condemned her comments on this forum.
I agree those were out of line.

to his preacher and all his anti-America remarks,

Rev. Wright is a decorated vet, guilty only of Sunday morning fire and brimstone theatrics.
His HIV beliefs are misguided (tho anyone who knows about the Tuskegee experiment shouldn't fault him too harshly).
Other than that, his sermons are the harsh medicine more Americans need to hear - like Eisenhower's farsighted warning about the military industrial complex.

You guys can call me stupid, and ask for proof and quotes and all kinds of other stuff.

If you are going to condemn Obama's comments, then yes, that is not too high a level of expectation is it?

Quote? You referenced my 'quote', so why are you asking for it again? I question his patriotism because I do believe he doesn't always act in the best interest of our country. MY beliefs. They're not yours, I get that. It's not gonna stop me from sharing what I believe to be true though.

[Indyjoe]

i am laughing at you right now. really. you really are just so lame... & phyl... i didn't reply to her last post (& i really tried!) cause she is just so out there i don't even know where to begin.

TNC...

stop playing the race card. it makes you look weak... your arguments become weak. you have no come back so you have to throw out the old race card.

- Were pictures of Obama decked in Somali garb circulated online to further spread the myth he was a Muslim - yes or no?
- Were quotes of Obama's book doctored to make it seem he sided with the Muslims (quotes that even found their way onto this very forum) - yes or no?
- Was Obama's black church microscopically scrutinized while Palin's Kenyan witch doctor pastor was given a free pass - yes or no?

Answer those questions and then tell me the "hand over the heart" non-scandal isn't another cynical ploy to capitalize on oogedy-boogedy "he's not like us" fears.

you tried that with me & it just doesn't work.

Considering you've never managed to rebuke ANYTHING anyone on here has said, this means nothing.
In fact, I'd say everyone who has responded to you in this thread so far, has decisively kicked your ignorant ass back over the Mason Dixon line.
BlueSkies, especially.
Even if the Republican Party did decide to dust off the Southern Strategy in 2012, you'd be too hickdumb recognize it.

you're the one bringing up obama's skin color... you make it an issue when it's not. weak.

Again, answer my questions.
Any of them.

I'm the one out there? LOL! You are the one on here supporting torture tactics like waterboarding..and being a hypocrite about it saying you personally couldn't do it but you want other people to do it for you. If you support a practice than you should be willing to do it yourself...not expect someone else to do it out of your sight and then you walk away trying to convince yourself that your hands are still clean.
You didn't respond to the points I brought up because you couldn't come up with a coherent, reasoned rebuttal. Then instead of conceeding you lost the debate you instead hurl insults and name call...
makes me think that if someone was in a boxing match with you then you would resort to biting their ear when you're losing too .
I think I'll call you TY now instead of Tree.

You were wondering about insults. I bolded a few for you.

She made her point to you earlier.

It is a BEAUTIFUL day here in California. It's possible Tree is spending the day enjoying it rather than going another "round" with you. But I don't know for sure.

[Jana]

That was me, TNC. I didn't read back to see if she mentioned it too, but I'm the one that brought it up. Again, it wasn't the fact that he didn't wear one, it was the way he responded when called out on it that rubbed me the wrong way.

I am speaking about you guys in general.
"Flag pin-gate" and "Star Spangled Banner-gate" aren't specific to any singular Con on this forum.
Treetop, RedWing, you - what difference does it make?
Each of these fake issues can be brandished as a political truncheon at will.
Just like the claims that Obama snubbed the troops (false) or that he was referencing Palin when used the adage of "lipstick on a pig" (also false).
It's all symptomatic of the Lee Atwater playbook of politics that's been in place since the 80's, and was cause for Bob Dole to at one point shout: "Stop Lying about my record!"
It's all glittery bullshit designed to seek and destroy.

I do question his patriotism when compared to others because I believe some of the things that he's said and done are not in the best interest of our country and it's people.

I'll ask you again.
Quote?

One needs to look no further than his wife, who before his candidacy had never been proud to be an American

I condemned her comments on this forum.
I agree those were out of line.

to his preacher and all his anti-America remarks,

Rev. Wright is a decorated vet, guilty only of Sunday morning fire and brimstone theatrics.
His HIV beliefs are misguided (tho anyone who knows about the Tuskegee experiment shouldn't fault him too harshly).
Other than that, his sermons are the harsh medicine more Americans need to hear - like Eisenhower's farsighted warning about the military industrial complex.

You guys can call me stupid, and ask for proof and quotes and all kinds of other stuff.

If you are going to condemn Obama's comments, then yes, that is not too high a level of expectation is it?

Quote? You referenced my 'quote', so why are you asking for it again? I question his patriotism because I do believe he doesn't always act in the best interest of our country. MY beliefs. They're not yours, I get that. It's not gonna stop me from sharing what I believe to be true though.

I would say I believe Bush didn't act in the best interest of the country many a time, but I would never question his patriotism. To me, he was either terribly misguided at times or just a flat-out ineffective president at other times, where I totally disagreed with many of his policies, but that would never make him unpatriotic. I believes he cares for his country, just like I believe Obama cares for his country. I can see people if they want to find fault with Obama's policies or decision-making, but questioning his patriotism as a President?

[Blueskies]

i am laughing at you right now. really. you really are just so lame... & phyl... i didn't reply to her last post (& i really tried!) cause she is just so out there i don't even know where to begin.

TNC...

stop playing the race card. it makes you look weak... your arguments become weak. you have no come back so you have to throw out the old race card.

- Were pictures of Obama decked in Somali garb circulated online to further spread the myth he was a Muslim - yes or no?
- Were quotes of Obama's book doctored to make it seem he sided with the Muslims (quotes that even found their way onto this very forum) - yes or no?
- Was Obama's black church microscopically scrutinized while Palin's Kenyan witch doctor pastor was given a free pass - yes or no?

Answer those questions and then tell me the "hand over the heart" non-scandal isn't another cynical ploy to capitalize on oogedy-boogedy "he's not like us" fears.

you tried that with me & it just doesn't work.

Considering you've never managed to rebuke ANYTHING anyone on here has said, this means nothing.
In fact, I'd say everyone who has responded to you in this thread so far, has decisively kicked your ignorant ass back over the Mason Dixon line.
BlueSkies, especially.
Even if the Republican Party did decide to dust off the Southern Strategy in 2012, you'd be too hickdumb recognize it.

you're the one bringing up obama's skin color... you make it an issue when it's not. weak.

Again, answer my questions.
Any of them.

I'm the one out there? LOL! You are the one on here supporting torture tactics like waterboarding..and being a hypocrite about it saying you personally couldn't do it but you want other people to do it for you. If you support a practice than you should be willing to do it yourself...not expect someone else to do it out of your sight and then you walk away trying to convince yourself that your hands are still clean.
You didn't respond to the points I brought up because you couldn't come up with a coherent, reasoned rebuttal. Then instead of conceeding you lost the debate you instead hurl insults and name call...
makes me think that if someone was in a boxing match with you then you would resort to biting their ear when you're losing too .
I think I'll call you TY now instead of Tree.

You were wondering about insults. I bolded a few for you.

She made her point to you earlier.

It is a BEAUTIFUL day here in California. It's possible Tree is spending the day enjoying it rather than going another "round" with you. But I don't know for sure.

You think those are insults? Heck, that was just a warm up. Seriously, though...I debated her civilly and she couldn't refute anything I said and could only end with an insult. Nice try at trying to distort reality but it's there for anyone to read. She got p'owned! Get over it, your team lost that round.

[Lula]

michelle obama's comment was misunderstood. i completely support what she said and understood the sentiment. it is one of those things when quoted loses it's message. i won't bother debating it at this point, been there, done that.

as for the patriotism of presidnet obama, not worth debating. you either see it or you don't. jana said it best- we can question bush's patriotism over some of his actions.

[Indyjoe]

I'm the one out there? LOL! You are the one on here supporting torture tactics like waterboarding..and being a hypocrite about it saying you personally couldn't do it but you want other people to do it for you. If you support a practice than you should be willing to do it yourself...not expect someone else to do it out of your sight and then you walk away trying to convince yourself that your hands are still clean.
You didn't respond to the points I brought up because you couldn't come up with a coherent, reasoned rebuttal. Then instead of conceeding you lost the debate you instead hurl insults and name call...
makes me think that if someone was in a boxing match with you then you would resort to biting their ear when you're losing too .
I think I'll call you TY now instead of Tree.

You were wondering about insults. I bolded a few for you.

She made her point to you earlier.

It is a BEAUTIFUL day here in California. It's possible Tree is spending the day enjoying it rather than going another "round" with you. But I don't know for sure.

You think those are insults? Heck, that was just a warm up. Seriously, though...I debated her civilly and she couldn't refute anything I said and could only end with an insult. Nice try at trying to distort reality but it's there for anyone to read. She got p'owned! Get over it, your team lost that round.

I was just responding to your earlier post...

Isn't that what you just did to me? Did I insult you in any way in our discussion? No, I did not.
In your own words...it shows weakness and that you can't debate then , doesn't it.

[Blueskies]

Did I insult her at all in the discussion before she ended with an insult thrown my way? Nope. So whats your point?

[The_Noble_Cause]

Quote? You referenced my 'quote', so why are you asking for it again? I question his patriotism because I do believe he doesn't always act in the best interest of our country. MY beliefs. They're not yours, I get that. It's not gonna stop me from sharing what I believe to be true though.

Either provide a quote or a link to these so-called anti-American comments you keep referencing, or cut the shit.
To date, the only ones provided have been taken out of context and ignore the portions where Obama rejected attitudes on both sides of the Atlantic.

[treetopovskaya]

where did i insult you? by calling your post "out there"? they were which made it difficult to reply to & i tried. you took what i said & twisted it around. i still don't get how tyson/holyfield fit in. that analogy for me was "out there". that was hardly an insult... compared to what others say... and you seem not to take issues with that... weird.

Did I insult her at all in the discussion before she ended with an insult thrown my way? Nope. So whats your point?

[Jana]

michelle obama's comment was misunderstood. i completely support what she said and understood the sentiment. it is one of those things when quoted loses it's message. i won't bother debating it at this point, been there, done that.

as for the patriotism of presidnet obama, not worth debating. you either see it or you don't. jana said it best- we can question bush's patriotism over some of his actions.

I admire Michelle Obama greatly. If people want to take that statement and isolate it, they will take that statement and use it as a reason to dislike her b/c they're looking for a reason. I look at the whole person and what she has accomplished in life. Take her or leave her, I believe Michelle Obama is an authentic person and there's not a fake bone in her body. A true role model for women and our youth, especially young black girls in middle school and high school.