Sharia law here in Michigan. Unbelievable

[BobbyinTN]

This is what the Founding Fathers said of America in the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli"



Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


That's the bottom line folks, so Christians, have their right to worship any thing they want to worship, but they do not have the right to force their beliefs on any other American because this country is about the freedom to choose, not the freedom of Christianity.

Really...so the 10 commandments are part of our legal and moral foundation then?

The Ten Commandments are NOT part of our moral foundation. Do you know all the Ten Commandments?

[RossValoryRocks]

Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!!

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!

She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.

You are REALLY an idiot...our WHOLE society is BASED on Judeo-Christian rules...LEARN some history...

I am not saying you should be forced to go to Church or to believe something you don't...but your ignorance of the basic history of this country are astounding.

Apparently you're the one ignorant of our history. This country was founded on freedom of religion and the every person's choice whether to believ in a God or not. Read why the founding fathers left England and you might understand a little more about religious freedom or the freedom from religion.

We are talking two different things here Bobby...The Judeo-Christian moral, legal precedents and such are an INTEGRAL part of our laws...what I was addressing to OS was the fact that she doesn't want those morals, rules or culture influenced by those beliefs...and was commenting she doesn't know history because those MOST of those VERY THINGS form the foundation of our society and laws.

And except for maybe Thomas Paine, none of the Founders wanted Freedom FROM religion, they wanted the freedom to worship as they would like to do...which was impossible in England with a State Church.

History is a passion of mine, especially the history of the founding of this country...so please continue in ignorance if you like, but OS and you just are not educated enough.

I think it was both, the freedom to worship or not to worship and that no man, no American should ever be forced to worship if he or she doesn't want to.

And I think many times "morals" are subjective. Don't you?

It doesn't take a PHD to know history and know that Christianity was not the driving force of America, it was FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Don't believe the history the Christians are trying to rewrite, believe what's already written.

Dude if I don't care about you sucking dick and taking it in the ass, do you REALLY think I care who/what/where/how you worship, if you do at all??

Learn to READ for fucks sake...I said to OS that the VERY thing she was running from is the part of the VERY foundation of the morals, laws and outlook of this country.

[RossValoryRocks]

This is what the Founding Fathers said of America in the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli"



Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


That's the bottom line folks, so Christians, have their right to worship any thing they want to worship, but they do not have the right to force their beliefs on any other American because this country is about the freedom to choose, not the freedom of Christianity.

Really...so the 10 commandments are part of our legal and moral foundation then?

The Ten Commandments are NOT part of our moral foundation. Do you know all the Ten Commandments?

Now you are just proving you are an idiot or being WILLFULLY ignorant...and yes I do know them all...and not ALL of them are part of our legal and moral foundation....but MOST are.

[S2M]

Just like George Carlin said, 'This country was founded on a double standard....founded by slave owners that wanted to be free'

[BobbyinTN]

This is what the Founding Fathers said of America in the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli"



Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


That's the bottom line folks, so Christians, have their right to worship any thing they want to worship, but they do not have the right to force their beliefs on any other American because this country is about the freedom to choose, not the freedom of Christianity.

Really...so the 10 commandments are part of our legal and moral foundation then?

The Ten Commandments are NOT part of our moral foundation. Do you know all the Ten Commandments?

Now you are just proving you are an idiot or being WILLFULLY ignorant...and yes I do know them all...and not ALL of them are part of our legal and moral foundation....but MOST are.

Ross, only two, possibly three of the Ten Commandments have anything to do with American laws.



1. Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Beside Me: There definitely aren’t any laws that forbid the worship of all but one god, much less the specific god of the ancient Hebrews. In fact, American law in general is silent on the existence of gods. Christians have inserted references to their God in various places, for example the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Motto, but for the most part the law doesn’t insist that any gods exist - and who would want that to change?

2. Thou Shalt Not Worship Any Graven Images: This Commandment has the same basic legal problems as the first. There is nothing in American law that even hints at the idea that there is something wrong with worshipping “graven images.” If such a law existed it would infringe upon the religious liberties of those whose religions include “graven images” — which, according to some, would include Catholics and many other Christian denominations.

3. Thou Shalt Not Take the Name of the Lord Thy God in Vain: As with the first two Commandments, this is a purely religious requirement that is not expressed in American law anymore. There was a time when blasphemy was punished. If it were still possible to prosecute people for blasphemy (a common, but not necessarily accurate, interpretation of this Commandment), it would be an infringement on religious liberty.

4. Remember the Sabbath Day to Rest and Keep it Holy: There was a time in America when the laws mandated that shops close on the Christian sabbath and people attend church. The latter provisions fell away first and, over time, the former began to disappear as well. Today it is difficult to find laws that enforce any sort of “sabbath rest” and none that enforce keeping a sabbath “holy.” The reasons are obvious: this is a religious matter which the government has no authority over.

5. Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother: This is a Commandment that is a good idea in principle, but to which many good exceptions can be found and which is completely impractical as a law. Not only are there no laws specifically designed to require this, it would be difficult to find any laws that express it as a principle even some remote sense. A person who curses, ignores, or says bad things about their parents breaks no laws.

6. Thou Shalt Not Murder: Finally, a Commandment that forbids something that is also forbidden in American law — and we only had to go through half of the Commandments to get to this point! Unfortunately for Ten Commandments advocates, this is also something forbidden in every known culture on the planet. Are all of these laws based upon the Sixth Commandment?

7. Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery: Once upon a time, adultery was illegal and could be punished by the state. Today that is no longer the case. The absence of laws prohibiting adultery prevents anyone from arguing that current American law is in any way based upon the Seventh Commandment. Unlike other such Commandments, though, it would be possible to change the laws to reflect this one. The question to supporters of the Ten Commandments, then, is this: do they openly advocate the criminalization of adultery and, if not, how does that square with their insistence that the Ten Commandments be endorsed, promoted, and displayed by the state?

8. Thou Shalt Not Steal: Here we come across just the second of ten Commandments that forbids something also forbidden in American law — and, as with the Sixth, this is also something forbidden in all other cultures as well, including those that predate the Ten Commandments. Are all laws against theft based upon the Eighth Commandment?

9. Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness: Whether this Commandment has any parallels in American laws depends upon how one interprets it. If this is simply a prohibition against lying in general, then it is not expressed in American law. If, however, this is a prohibition against lying in the course of court testimony, then it is true that American law also forbids this. Then again, so do other cultures.

10. Thou Shalt Not Covet Anything That is Thy Neighbor's: As with honoring one’s parents, a command to refrain from coveting may be a reasonable principle (depending upon how it is applied) but that doesn’t mean that it is something that can or should be enforced by the law. There is nothing in American law that even comes close to forbidding coveting.



Conclusion: Of the ten Commandments, only three have any parallels in American law, so if anyone wanted to argue that the Commandments are somehow the “basis” for our laws, these are the only three they have to work with. Unfortunately, similar parallels exist with every other culture and it’s not reasonable to say that the Ten Commandments are the basis for all laws. There is simply no reason to think that the people crafting American or British law sat down and prohibited theft or murder merely because the Ten Commandments already did so.

A couple of the Commandments forbid things which were at one point forbidden in American law, but are not anymore. If the Commandments were the basis for those laws, they aren’t the basis for current laws, and this means that the rationale for displaying them is gone. Finally, it must be kept in mind that constitutional protections of religious liberty are written in a manner that are practically designed to break several Commandments. Thus, far from reflecting the Ten Commandments, it is arguable that the principles of American law are set up to break several of them and ignore most of the rest.






http://atheism.about.com/od/tencommandm ... nlaw_2.htm

[RossValoryRocks]

Just like George Carlin said, 'This country was founded on a double standard....founded by slave owners that wanted to be free'

Most of the Founders weren't slave owners...just most of the famous ones...and even they knew and espoused that slavery was wrong, at least in private, but they also knew in their wisdom that any attempt to end it at the formation of the United States would have torn the US a part...which is almost did in 1860...So like much of what Carlin wrote and/or said he is both right and wrong.

[RossValoryRocks]

This is what the Founding Fathers said of America in the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli"



Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


That's the bottom line folks, so Christians, have their right to worship any thing they want to worship, but they do not have the right to force their beliefs on any other American because this country is about the freedom to choose, not the freedom of Christianity.

Really...so the 10 commandments are part of our legal and moral foundation then?

The Ten Commandments are NOT part of our moral foundation. Do you know all the Ten Commandments?

Now you are just proving you are an idiot or being WILLFULLY ignorant...and yes I do know them all...and not ALL of them are part of our legal and moral foundation....but MOST are.

Ross, only two, possibly three of the Ten Commandments have anything to do with American laws.



1. Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Beside Me: There definitely aren’t any laws that forbid the worship of all but one god, much less the specific god of the ancient Hebrews. In fact, American law in general is silent on the existence of gods. Christians have inserted references to their God in various places, for example the Pledge of Allegiance and the National Motto, but for the most part the law doesn’t insist that any gods exist - and who would want that to change?

2. Thou Shalt Not Worship Any Graven Images: This Commandment has the same basic legal problems as the first. There is nothing in American law that even hints at the idea that there is something wrong with worshipping “graven images.” If such a law existed it would infringe upon the religious liberties of those whose religions include “graven images” — which, according to some, would include Catholics and many other Christian denominations.

3. Thou Shalt Not Take the Name of the Lord Thy God in Vain: As with the first two Commandments, this is a purely religious requirement that is not expressed in American law anymore. There was a time when blasphemy was punished. If it were still possible to prosecute people for blasphemy (a common, but not necessarily accurate, interpretation of this Commandment), it would be an infringement on religious liberty.

4. Remember the Sabbath Day to Rest and Keep it Holy: There was a time in America when the laws mandated that shops close on the Christian sabbath and people attend church. The latter provisions fell away first and, over time, the former began to disappear as well. Today it is difficult to find laws that enforce any sort of “sabbath rest” and none that enforce keeping a sabbath “holy.” The reasons are obvious: this is a religious matter which the government has no authority over.

5. Honor Thy Father and Thy Mother: This is a Commandment that is a good idea in principle, but to which many good exceptions can be found and which is completely impractical as a law. Not only are there no laws specifically designed to require this, it would be difficult to find any laws that express it as a principle even some remote sense. A person who curses, ignores, or says bad things about their parents breaks no laws.

6. Thou Shalt Not Murder: Finally, a Commandment that forbids something that is also forbidden in American law — and we only had to go through half of the Commandments to get to this point! Unfortunately for Ten Commandments advocates, this is also something forbidden in every known culture on the planet. Are all of these laws based upon the Sixth Commandment?

7. Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery: Once upon a time, adultery was illegal and could be punished by the state. Today that is no longer the case. The absence of laws prohibiting adultery prevents anyone from arguing that current American law is in any way based upon the Seventh Commandment. Unlike other such Commandments, though, it would be possible to change the laws to reflect this one. The question to supporters of the Ten Commandments, then, is this: do they openly advocate the criminalization of adultery and, if not, how does that square with their insistence that the Ten Commandments be endorsed, promoted, and displayed by the state?

8. Thou Shalt Not Steal: Here we come across just the second of ten Commandments that forbids something also forbidden in American law — and, as with the Sixth, this is also something forbidden in all other cultures as well, including those that predate the Ten Commandments. Are all laws against theft based upon the Eighth Commandment?

9. Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness: Whether this Commandment has any parallels in American laws depends upon how one interprets it. If this is simply a prohibition against lying in general, then it is not expressed in American law. If, however, this is a prohibition against lying in the course of court testimony, then it is true that American law also forbids this. Then again, so do other cultures.

10. Thou Shalt Not Covet Anything That is Thy Neighbor's: As with honoring one’s parents, a command to refrain from coveting may be a reasonable principle (depending upon how it is applied) but that doesn’t mean that it is something that can or should be enforced by the law. There is nothing in American law that even comes close to forbidding coveting.



Conclusion: Of the ten Commandments, only three have any parallels in American law, so if anyone wanted to argue that the Commandments are somehow the “basis” for our laws, these are the only three they have to work with. Unfortunately, similar parallels exist with every other culture and it’s not reasonable to say that the Ten Commandments are the basis for all laws. There is simply no reason to think that the people crafting American or British law sat down and prohibited theft or murder merely because the Ten Commandments already did so.

A couple of the Commandments forbid things which were at one point forbidden in American law, but are not anymore. If the Commandments were the basis for those laws, they aren’t the basis for current laws, and this means that the rationale for displaying them is gone. Finally, it must be kept in mind that constitutional protections of religious liberty are written in a manner that are practically designed to break several Commandments. Thus, far from reflecting the Ten Commandments, it is arguable that the principles of American law are set up to break several of them and ignore most of the rest.

http://atheism.about.com/od/tencommandm ... nlaw_2.htm

Written by an atheist on about.com??? PLEASE...

The final 6 of the 10 commandments were some of the earliest codification of the principles there in.

They are studied in EVERY law school because of that fact.

They were written thousands of years before Justinian or any other of the "legal" geniuses of classical antiquity.

[BobbyinTN]

Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!!

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!

She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.

You are REALLY an idiot...our WHOLE society is BASED on Judeo-Christian rules...LEARN some history...

I am not saying you should be forced to go to Church or to believe something you don't...but your ignorance of the basic history of this country are astounding.

Apparently you're the one ignorant of our history. This country was founded on freedom of religion and the every person's choice whether to believ in a God or not. Read why the founding fathers left England and you might understand a little more about religious freedom or the freedom from religion.

We are talking two different things here Bobby...The Judeo-Christian moral, legal precedents and such are an INTEGRAL part of our laws...what I was addressing to OS was the fact that she doesn't want those morals, rules or culture influenced by those beliefs...and was commenting she doesn't know history because those MOST of those VERY THINGS form the foundation of our society and laws.

And except for maybe Thomas Paine, none of the Founders wanted Freedom FROM religion, they wanted the freedom to worship as they would like to do...which was impossible in England with a State Church.

History is a passion of mine, especially the history of the founding of this country...so please continue in ignorance if you like, but OS and you just are not educated enough.

I think it was both, the freedom to worship or not to worship and that no man, no American should ever be forced to worship if he or she doesn't want to.

And I think many times "morals" are subjective. Don't you?

It doesn't take a PHD to know history and know that Christianity was not the driving force of America, it was FREEDOM OF RELIGION. Don't believe the history the Christians are trying to rewrite, believe what's already written.

Dude if I don't care about you sucking dick and taking it in the ass, do you REALLY think I care who/what/where/how you worship, if you do at all??

Learn to READ for fucks sake...I said to OS that the VERY thing she was running from is the part of the VERY foundation of the morals, laws and outlook of this country.

I’ll publicly apologize if I misunderstood. So, SORRY, LOL! And no, I don’t think you care who worships what. So take that! LOL

[BobbyinTN]

But the fact is Ross, only two possibly three are part of our laws today and they have very little to do with religion and more to do with absolutes of right and wrong.

[RossValoryRocks]

But the fact is Ross, only two possibly three are part of our laws today and they have very little to do with religion and more to do with absolutes of right and wrong.

Correct...but they also form part, PART, of our Moral fabric...which is what I said in the first place...

[RossValoryRocks]

I think every gay person should walk into every church that preaches against homosexuality and raise hell

It would probably be a lot more productive on your part to educate a few fellow fags on these stats:

However, AIDS is by far most common among the homosexual population in the United States, primarily because the type and frequency of sexual contact, combined with STDs, is the perfect method of spreading a body-fluid borne virus.

Public health records demonstrate that homosexuals, representing 2 percent of America's population, suffer vastly disproportionate percentages of several of America's most serious STDs, with incidences among homosexuals of diseases like gonorrhea, syphilis, hepatitis A and B, cytomegalovirus, shigellosis, giardiasis, amoebic bowel disease and herpes far exceeding their presence in the general population. These are due to common homosexual practices that include fellatio, anilingus, digital stimulation of the rectum and ingestion of urine and feces.

An exhaustive study in The New England Journal of Medicine, medical literature's only study reporting on homosexuals who kept sexual "diaries," indicated the average homosexual ingests the fecal material of 23 different men each year. The same study indicated the number of annual sexual partners averaged nearly 100. Homosexuals averaged, per year, fellating 106 different men and swallowing 50 of their seminal ejaculations, and 72 penile penetrations of the anus. (Corey, L, and Holmes, K.K., "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men," New England Journal of Medicine, 1980, vol 302: 435-438; as quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

A study by McKusick, et al., of 655 San Francisco homosexuals reported that only 24 percent of the sample claimed to have been "monogamous" during the past year, and of this 24 percent, 5 percent drank urine, 7 percent engag-ed in sex involving insertion of a fist in their rectums, 33 percent ingested feces, 53 percent swallowed semen and 59 percent received semen in their rectums in the month just previous to the survey ("AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported by Homosexual Men in San Francisco," American Journal of Public Health, December 1985, 75: 493-496; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

Lesbians show similar patterns of high venereal disease incidence relative to the general population. They are 19 times more likely to have had syphilis, twice as likely to have had genital warts, four times as likely to have had scabies, seven times more likely to have had infection from vaginal contact, 29 times more likely to have had oral infection from vaginal contact and 12 times more likely to have had an oral infection from penile contact ("Medical Aspects of Homosexuality," Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, 1985, Jaffe and Keewhan, et al.; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

AIDS research by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported that the typical homosexual interviewed claimed to have had more than 500 different sexual partners in a lifetime. Considered by themselves, the AIDS victims in this study averaged more than 1,100 lifetime sexual partners. Some reported as many as 20,000. Studies reported by A-P. Bell, M.S. Weinberg and S.K. Hammersmith in the book "Sexual Preference" (Bloomington, Indiana University Press, 1981) indicated that only 3 percent of homosexuals had fewer than 10 lifetime sexual partners. Only about 2 percent could be classified as either monogamous or semi-monogamous (from "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

To the present time, 75 to 85 percent of AIDS cases reported are related to homosexual activity, promiscuous heterosexual sex and IV drug abuse. AIDS stubbornly refuses to spread into the population in general, even 20 years after its discovery, despite dire warnings to the contrary.

Wow...just totally unfounded...and well...bigoted lies dude.

While you get much right in your politics, your absolute hatred for gays and lesbians mystifies me.

Gays and lesbians have the RIGHT to live how they chose, LOVE whom they chose, raise children etc etc. and the state or Federal governments have NO RIGHT or enumerated power to deny them that right. It is ONLY Constitutional!

You and your intolerance are just amazing.

You had the balls to blast me for being nasty to Deano? What I said I said out of love and caring for someone, and a desire for that someone to do something with their life besides be an internet hero. What you have said over and over in many posts is just hatred. BIG difference.

[BobbyinTN]

I think every gay person should walk into every church that preaches against homosexuality and raise hell

It would probably be a lot more productive on your part to educate a few fellow fags on these stats:

However, AIDS is by far most common among the homosexual population in the United States, primarily because the type and frequency of sexual contact, combined with STDs, is the perfect method of spreading a body-fluid borne virus.

Public health records demonstrate that homosexuals, representing 2 percent of America's population, suffer vastly disproportionate percentages of several of America's most serious STDs, with incidences among homosexuals of diseases like gonorrhea, syphilis, hepatitis A and B, cytomegalovirus, shigellosis, giardiasis, amoebic bowel disease and herpes far exceeding their presence in the general population. These are due to common homosexual practices that include fellatio, anilingus, digital stimulation of the rectum and ingestion of urine and feces.

An exhaustive study in The New England Journal of Medicine, medical literature's only study reporting on homosexuals who kept sexual "diaries," indicated the average homosexual ingests the fecal material of 23 different men each year. The same study indicated the number of annual sexual partners averaged nearly 100. Homosexuals averaged, per year, fellating 106 different men and swallowing 50 of their seminal ejaculations, and 72 penile penetrations of the anus. (Corey, L, and Holmes, K.K., "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men," New England Journal of Medicine, 1980, vol 302: 435-438; as quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

A study by McKusick, et al., of 655 San Francisco homosexuals reported that only 24 percent of the sample claimed to have been "monogamous" during the past year, and of this 24 percent, 5 percent drank urine, 7 percent engag-ed in sex involving insertion of a fist in their rectums, 33 percent ingested feces, 53 percent swallowed semen and 59 percent received semen in their rectums in the month just previous to the survey ("AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported by Homosexual Men in San Francisco," American Journal of Public Health, December 1985, 75: 493-496; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

Lesbians show similar patterns of high venereal disease incidence relative to the general population. They are 19 times more likely to have had syphilis, twice as likely to have had genital warts, four times as likely to have had scabies, seven times more likely to have had infection from vaginal contact, 29 times more likely to have had oral infection from vaginal contact and 12 times more likely to have had an oral infection from penile contact ("Medical Aspects of Homosexuality," Institute for the Scientific Investigation of Sexuality, 1985, Jaffe and Keewhan, et al.; quoted in "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

AIDS research by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control reported that the typical homosexual interviewed claimed to have had more than 500 different sexual partners in a lifetime. Considered by themselves, the AIDS victims in this study averaged more than 1,100 lifetime sexual partners. Some reported as many as 20,000. Studies reported by A-P. Bell, M.S. Weinberg and S.K. Hammersmith in the book "Sexual Preference" (Bloomington, Indiana University Press, 1981) indicated that only 3 percent of homosexuals had fewer than 10 lifetime sexual partners. Only about 2 percent could be classified as either monogamous or semi-monogamous (from "Homosexuality and Civil Rights," Tony Marco, 1992).

To the present time, 75 to 85 percent of AIDS cases reported are related to homosexual activity, promiscuous heterosexual sex and IV drug abuse. AIDS stubbornly refuses to spread into the population in general, even 20 years after its discovery, despite dire warnings to the contrary.

Wow...just totally unfounded...and well...bigoted lies dude.

While you get much right in your politics, your absolute hatred for gays and lesbians mystifies me.

Gays and lesbians have the RIGHT to live how they chose, LOVE whom they chose, raise children etc etc. and the state or Federal governments have NO RIGHT or enumerated power to deny them that right. It is ONLY Constitutional!

You and your intolerance are just amazing.

You had the balls to blast me for being nasty to Deano? What I said I said out of love and caring for someone, and a desire for that someone to do something with their life besides be an internet hero. What you have said over and over in many posts is just hatred. BIG difference.

Beautiful!!

[Saint John]

Wow...just totally unfounded...and well...bigoted lies dude.

While you get much right in your politics, your absolute hatred for gays and lesbians mystifies me.

Gays and lesbians have the RIGHT to live how they chose, LOVE whom they chose, raise children etc etc. and the state or Federal governments have NO RIGHT or enumerated power to deny them that right. It is ONLY Constitutional!

You and your intolerance are just amazing.

You had the balls to blast me for being nasty to Deano? What I said I said out of love and caring for someone, and a desire for that someone to do something with their life besides be an internet hero. What you have said over and over in many posts is just hatred. BIG difference.

First, and foremost, all of the sources of what was said are there. *I* didn't say any of that. Secondly, I have no hatred for gays and/or lesbians. None. Zero. I'll give one a hug next time I see one. Thirdly, your attempted/accomplished humiliation of Deano had zero to do with "love and caring." A phone call, PM or e-mail without letting thousands of people on here who have no business knowing what you posted would have been the appropriate route. Your intent was to hurt and/or humiliate. Just admit it.

And, for the record, I didn't blast you for being nasty to Deano. I blasted you for being nasty to a "brother" on a fucking public forum. Big difference.

[Rockindeano]

This is what the Founding Fathers said of America in the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli"



Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


That's the bottom line folks, so Christians, have their right to worship any thing they want to worship, but they do not have the right to force their beliefs on any other American because this country is about the freedom to choose, not the freedom of Christianity.

Really...so the 10 commandments are part of our legal and moral foundation then?

The Ten Commandments are NOT part of our moral foundation. Do you know all the Ten Commandments?

Yeah, I know em all, but there should be 11 Commandments.

11 being 'Thou Shalt not Lip Sync.'

[BobbyinTN]

Wow...just totally unfounded...and well...bigoted lies dude.

While you get much right in your politics, your absolute hatred for gays and lesbians mystifies me.

Gays and lesbians have the RIGHT to live how they chose, LOVE whom they chose, raise children etc etc. and the state or Federal governments have NO RIGHT or enumerated power to deny them that right. It is ONLY Constitutional!

You and your intolerance are just amazing.

You had the balls to blast me for being nasty to Deano? What I said I said out of love and caring for someone, and a desire for that someone to do something with their life besides be an internet hero. What you have said over and over in many posts is just hatred. BIG difference.

First, and foremost, all of the sources of what was said are there. *I* didn't say any of that. Secondly, I have no hatred for gays and/or lesbians. None. Zero. I'll give one a hug next time I see one. Thirdly, your attempted/accomplished humiliation of Deano had zero to do with "love and caring." A phone call, PM or e-mail without letting thousands of people on here who have no business knowing what you posted would have been the appropriate route. Your intent was to hurt and/or humiliate. Just admit it.

And, for the record, I didn't blast you for being nasty to Deano. I blasted you for being nasty to a "brother" on a fucking public forum. Big difference.

The information you gave can also be applied to every single heterosexual in the world. But when I have more time, I'll prove everyone of your sources wrong. The only elevated risk for any group, homosexual or heterosexual is those who have anal sex and I know many heterosexual couples that do it and many more that do far more kinky things.



Being homosexual does not make you more prone to disease, being sexually active does and that goes for every living, breathing human being.

[RossValoryRocks]

This is what the Founding Fathers said of America in the 1796 Treaty with Tripoli"



Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.


That's the bottom line folks, so Christians, have their right to worship any thing they want to worship, but they do not have the right to force their beliefs on any other American because this country is about the freedom to choose, not the freedom of Christianity.

Really...so the 10 commandments are part of our legal and moral foundation then?

The Ten Commandments are NOT part of our moral foundation. Do you know all the Ten Commandments?

Yeah, I know em all, but there should be 11 Commandments.

11 being 'Thou Shalt not Lip Sync.'

Shit every band in mainstream music would be in violation.

[artist4perry]

Great post and absolutely true. I'm also glad I wasn't raised to feel guilty or threatened for not drinking the Kool-Aid. My parents prized truth and education over marching lock-step with the bible thumpers.

Yet you raised one!!

Oh ...and no disrespect intended, I'm sure she's wonderful!!

She knows how I feel about religion and she also knows I love her. I allowed my children to make their own decisions about it. I'm not intolerant of people who practice religion, I just don't want their beliefs to be imposed upon me by influencing the rules of society and the culture that I live in.

You are REALLY an idiot...our WHOLE society is BASED on Judeo-Christian rules...LEARN some history...

I am not saying you should be forced to go to Church or to believe something you don't...but your ignorance of the basic history of this country are astounding.

Listen up dickbag. "Your society" is not in any way based on religion! The US is based on secular ideas, formed from the French revolution (goes all the way back to ancient Greece) - the founding fathers were mostly secular too. Thomas Paine, who laid the foundation for the declaration of Independence with Common Sense, said:

Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind.

You seriously need to get out more, dude. The US is still a puppy compared to the massive history of Greece, Sweden, Iraq, Japan and the list goes on. You see, almost every god damn thing you people believe in, democracy, civil liberties (right to fair trial and religion) and women rights. The beauty of the US is that it's a melange of some of the greatest European countries, and with it; all their collective culture and history mix together. Bitch all you want, but the rest of the world got more culture in our god damn sphincter than you people got all together.

And Ewwwmat, read up on one of my earlier posts on the immoral values of religion, or just go and buy one of Hitchen's or Dawkin's books or Voltaire for that matter.

Sweetie I know you have your views of America from across the waves, but your not one. We may be a puppy, but a puppy that is a mix of all those great cultured people you mentioned. Where your country only has maybe some mixing, our country has grown from being mixed, and blended. Many great ideas and inventions were born in this great land of ours......and people are coming here in droves, maybe some are seeking some of those unwanted rights to freely express religion?

Great thing about America.......no one else determines what I can be, I am not locked in to be anything due to class, or status, I have the freedom to work hard, make my own success, and keep the fruits of my labor. Giving is also mostly my choice as to where it goes and what I do with it.

I love that here, you can choose to beleive in a God or not. You cannot tell me what I have to beleive, and I truly don't care if you like it or not. I have never condoned mistreatment nor treated anyone unkindly because they are gay. I leave that up to God to deal with. I beleive Christ has taught me to love all men. ALL MEN. For all have sinned and have come short of the glory of God? That includes me.

There is such a thing as bigotry towards christians, too. I am glad I live in a country that I can worship freely.

[RossValoryRocks]

Wow...just totally unfounded...and well...bigoted lies dude.

While you get much right in your politics, your absolute hatred for gays and lesbians mystifies me.

Gays and lesbians have the RIGHT to live how they chose, LOVE whom they chose, raise children etc etc. and the state or Federal governments have NO RIGHT or enumerated power to deny them that right. It is ONLY Constitutional!

You and your intolerance are just amazing.

You had the balls to blast me for being nasty to Deano? What I said I said out of love and caring for someone, and a desire for that someone to do something with their life besides be an internet hero. What you have said over and over in many posts is just hatred. BIG difference.

First, and foremost, all of the sources of what was said are there. *I* didn't say any of that. Secondly, I have no hatred for gays and/or lesbians. None. Zero. I'll give one a hug next time I see one. Thirdly, your attempted/accomplished humiliation of Deano had zero to do with "love and caring." A phone call, PM or e-mail without letting thousands of people on here who have no business knowing what you posted would have been the appropriate route. Your intent was to hurt and/or humiliate. Just admit it.

And, for the record, I didn't blast you for being nasty to Deano. I blasted you for being nasty to a "brother" on a fucking public forum. Big difference.

Right because the word FAG isn't perjorative at all, right?? My intent was NOT to hurt or humiliate and sometimes you need to punch a brother in the face and get their attention, particularly when they have a problem and WON'T listen unless you make it so obvious they can't miss it...also you can't and don't know what was in my heart when I wrote that, you can't and don't know if I tried calling and emailing (I did, several times...no response) prior to resorting to posting here.

You call gays fags, and yes some gays are fine with that, amongst themselves usually...kind of like if you called a black man the N-word...MOST of them would gut you on the spot...regardless if they use it themselves...your posting of that "data" shows what your beliefs are toward homosexuals.

Someone on here called it a "dirty filthy" lifestyle choice, and it is not A) a choice it's genetic or B) dirty and filthy except in the minds of homophoic people like the "Reverend" Fred Phelps and others of his ilk.

[BobbyinTN]

Wow...just totally unfounded...and well...bigoted lies dude.

While you get much right in your politics, your absolute hatred for gays and lesbians mystifies me.

Gays and lesbians have the RIGHT to live how they chose, LOVE whom they chose, raise children etc etc. and the state or Federal governments have NO RIGHT or enumerated power to deny them that right. It is ONLY Constitutional!

You and your intolerance are just amazing.

You had the balls to blast me for being nasty to Deano? What I said I said out of love and caring for someone, and a desire for that someone to do something with their life besides be an internet hero. What you have said over and over in many posts is just hatred. BIG difference.

First, and foremost, all of the sources of what was said are there. *I* didn't say any of that. Secondly, I have no hatred for gays and/or lesbians. None. Zero. I'll give one a hug next time I see one. Thirdly, your attempted/accomplished humiliation of Deano had zero to do with "love and caring." A phone call, PM or e-mail without letting thousands of people on here who have no business knowing what you posted would have been the appropriate route. Your intent was to hurt and/or humiliate. Just admit it.

And, for the record, I didn't blast you for being nasty to Deano. I blasted you for being nasty to a "brother" on a fucking public forum. Big difference.

Right because the word FAG isn't perjorative at all, right?? My intent was NOT to hurt or humiliate and sometimes you need to punch a brother in the face and get their attention, particularly when they have a problem and WON'T listen unless you make it so obvious they can't miss it...also you can't and don't know what was in my heart when I wrote that, you can't and don't know if I tried calling and emailing (I did, several times...no response) prior to resorting to posting here.

You call gays fags, and yes some gays are fine with that, amongst themselves usually...kind of like if you called a black man the N-word...MOST of them would gut you on the spot...regardless if they use it themselves...your posting of that "data" shows what your beliefs are toward homosexuals.

Someone on here called it a "dirty filthy" lifestyle choice, and it is not A) a choice it's genetic or B) dirty and filthy except in the minds of homophoic people like the "Reverend" Fred Phelps and others of his ilk.

But those words are just jokes to them, remember? America is too politically correct, so they should be able to say "fag" and"nigger" and "kike" and anything else they please because you know, free speech and all. Wonder if if we started referring to their mothers as "cunts" and "cum stained whores", they might get the joke?

[Michigan Girl]

Wow ...this is why Christians pass out the pamphlets!!
I'm shocked this thread is still open!!

What happens to men who commit adultry?!?!
http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/ir ... g/19543401
Iranian Family Works to Save Mother From Stoning

July 6) -- The fate of an Iranian mother of two sentenced to be stoned to death at any time hung in the balance today as a last-minute campaign to save her gathered strength and her lawyer said even he did not know what the outcome will be.

Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani, 43, who was convicted of adultery in 2006, is "very frightened and very sad" as she sits in a prison cell in Tabriz and worries about the two children she has not seen in four years, said her lawyer. Her son and daughter started the crusade to save her.

"Sakineh is supposed to be stoned to death, and I still think it could happen at any time," her lawyer, Mohammed Mostafaei, told AOL News in a telephone interview from Iran Tuesday.

"She feels helpless and hopeless," he said. "She says she is not guilty, but the government says she is guilty. The conviction is a sham. I would like to think that the news of this case will help her, but I can't be sure."
Mina Ahadi, head of the International Committee Against Stoning and the Death Penalty, told AOL News today that the Iranian government may meet Saturday to decide Ashtiani's fate.

Ahadi, an Iranian human rights activist who fled Iran for Germany in the 1980s, began helping Ashtiani's children, Sajad, 22, and Farideh, 17, spearhead a campaign to raise public awareness about their mother.

"I spoke to her son today, and he has a little bit of hope," Ahadi said. "Sometimes these death sentences are overturned because of public pressure."

Though Iran supposedly enacted a moratorium on stoning in 2002, the practice has continued, according to Iranian human rights activists and Amnesty International. About 40 stonings were reported in Iran between the 1979 Islamic Revolution and 1997. Since 2002, men and women alike have been stoned despite the moratorium, but reliable statistics are difficult to come by, according to Ahadi.

Under Sharia law in Iran, a woman's death by stoning involves being buried up to the neck and having stones hurled at her head. The law even specifies the size of the stones: not so big that the victim dies quickly, but not so small that death takes an inordinately long time.said.

Amnesty International reports that 126 people have been executed as of June 6 this year in Iran and said another woman, Zeynab Jalalian, is in danger of being executed at any time for the crime of "enmity against God."

[Saint John]

Right because the word FAG isn't perjorative at all, right?? My intent was NOT to hurt or humiliate and sometimes you need to punch a brother in the face and get their attention, particularly when they have a problem and WON'T listen unless you make it so obvious they can't miss it...also you can't and don't know what was in my heart when I wrote that, you can't and don't know if I tried calling and emailing (I did, several times...no response) prior to resorting to posting here.

You call gays fags, and yes some gays are fine with that, amongst themselves usually...kind of like if you called a black man the N-word...MOST of them would gut you on the spot...regardless if they use it themselves...your posting of that "data" shows what your beliefs are toward homosexuals.

Someone on here called it a "dirty filthy" lifestyle choice, and it is not A) a choice it's genetic or B) dirty and filthy except in the minds of homophoic people like the "Reverend" Fred Phelps and others of his ilk.

Good points, Stu. Point(s) taken. I still think that sort of lifestyle is filthy and disgusting, though. Just like people that fuck animals, I find it to be sexually deviant behavior. If they wanna live together, get married and live happily ever after, fine. Just don't destroy each other's shit tunnels.

[BobbyinTN]

Right because the word FAG isn't perjorative at all, right?? My intent was NOT to hurt or humiliate and sometimes you need to punch a brother in the face and get their attention, particularly when they have a problem and WON'T listen unless you make it so obvious they can't miss it...also you can't and don't know what was in my heart when I wrote that, you can't and don't know if I tried calling and emailing (I did, several times...no response) prior to resorting to posting here.

You call gays fags, and yes some gays are fine with that, amongst themselves usually...kind of like if you called a black man the N-word...MOST of them would gut you on the spot...regardless if they use it themselves...your posting of that "data" shows what your beliefs are toward homosexuals.

Someone on here called it a "dirty filthy" lifestyle choice, and it is not A) a choice it's genetic or B) dirty and filthy except in the minds of homophoic people like the "Reverend" Fred Phelps and others of his ilk.

Good points, Stu. Point(s) taken. I still think that sort of lifestyle is filthy and disgusting, though. Just like people that fuck animals, I find it to be sexually deviant behavior. If they wanna live together, get married and live happily ever after, fine. Just don't destroy each other's shit tunnels.

If sex isn't deviant, you're not doing it right.

[donnaplease]

But the fact is Ross, only two possibly three are part of our laws today and they have very little to do with religion and more to do with absolutes of right and wrong.

Correct...but they also form part, PART, of our Moral fabric...which is what I said in the first place...

And IMO the fact that these tenets of right and wrong are missing from our society is in large part to blame for the decay of our land that we're seeing today. So Bobby, are you saying we can't kill and we can't steal, but everything else on the list is pretty much ok?

[Saint John]

If sex isn't deviant, you're not doing it right.

[BobbyinTN]

But the fact is Ross, only two possibly three are part of our laws today and they have very little to do with religion and more to do with absolutes of right and wrong.

Correct...but they also form part, PART, of our Moral fabric...which is what I said in the first place...

And IMO the fact that these tenets of right and wrong are missing from our society is in large part to blame for the decay of our land that we're seeing today. So Bobby, are you saying we can't kill and we can't steal, but everything else on the list is pretty much ok?

No, what I'm saying is we don't need Biblical law to have American law. Ages past and many religions too have punished people for stealing, murdering and other offences. Punishing criminals is not contingent on Christianity and the Ten Commandments.

[Archetype]

Hitler had the right idea, but he went after only a couple selected religions. Religion is the cancer of the world. Abolish it all; by force if need be. People shouldn't be allowed to be that stupid. It's the 21st century. It should be pretty well established that there isn't some mystical force controlling everything.

[AlteredDNA]

Hitler had the right idea, but he went after only a couple selected religions. Religion is the cancer of the world. Abolish it all; by force if need be. People shouldn't be allowed to be that stupid. It's the 21st century. It should be pretty well established that there isn't some mystical force controlling everything.

Posted before this thread gets crushed as well...

[BobbyinTN]

Hitler had the right idea, but he went after only a couple selected religions. Religion is the cancer of the world. Abolish it all; by force if need be. People shouldn't be allowed to be that stupid. It's the 21st century. It should be pretty well established that there isn't some mystical force controlling everything.

I wouldn't call Hitler right about anything, BUT, religion should be held down in America and not allowed to influence legislation and certainly should hold no political power.

If people want to worship that's cool. When those worshipping people want to take over the world or force their view on everyone else, they should be destroyed.

[Since 78]

Hitler had the right idea, but he went after only a couple selected religions. Religion is the cancer of the world. Abolish it all; by force if need be. People shouldn't be allowed to be that stupid. It's the 21st century. It should be pretty well established that there isn't some mystical force controlling everything.

I wouldn't call Hitler right about anything, BUT, religion should be held down in America and not allowed to influence legislation and certainly should hold no political power.

If people want to worship that's cool. When those worshipping people want to take over the world or force their view on everyone else, they should be destroyed.

Wow! There is really no sensible reply to this garbage, but Ill try. Christians are united states citizens and have a right to hold political power just like anyone else. We also have a right to express our views and opinions just like everyone else, including you two.

[Michigan Girl]

Hitler had the right idea, but he went after only a couple selected religions. Religion is the cancer of the world. Abolish it all; by force if need be. People shouldn't be allowed to be that stupid. It's the 21st century. It should be pretty well established that there isn't some mystical force controlling everything.

I wouldn't call Hitler right about anything, BUT, religion should be held down in America and not allowed to influence legislation and certainly should hold no political power.

If people want to worship that's cool. When those worshipping people want to take over the world or force their view on everyone else, they should be destroyed.

Wow, if we had a nation full of you two ...?!?!
Bobby, think about what you typed here ...