Stephen Hawking says universe not created by God

[Melissa]

I have followed this thread and it's been so interesting and have
to say I can relate so well to so much of what Travis, Rip and S2M
have stated. I don't see where anyone is attacking anyone's religious
beliefs. And until you face how difficult it is to lose that "faith"
grounding, as I too have, then you really have no clue how difficult
it is and can't possibly fathom how lost it makes someone feel.
Along with other hurts in life, that unless you know a person like this
VERY personally or well, ever stop to think that might be why
someone comes across a certain way? Some people have had the
shit kicked out of them while already down, and so what if they
come across as cynical or sarcastic? Hurt people do. Something
to think about before judging, and anyhow, religion is one of those
tough things to talk about either way and always evokes passion
on both sides. I think all involved here have made this a great discussion.

Anyhow I love that George Carlin quote. I'm not religious anymore
for several personal reasons, and despite my mistakes in life, I know
the goodness of my own heart and soul, and if that's not good
enough when I die, oh well.

[Michigan Girl]

S&M ~All Christians are not the mindless, bible thumping idiots you make them out to be. You, my friend, are as bad, if not worse, than any bible thumper I have ever met, only in reverse. So what if you don’t believe in the Holy-Trinity, why in the name of some unexplained force does it seem as though you ( and a few others) are preaching to and belittling those who do every time a thread like this comes along. You’re never going to get the proof you want, not from us, so you’re just wasting your finger strokes, causing Jesus to do that face~palm thing and leaving a nasty taste in my mouth. Mindless sheep, my ass!!

Lt Vanish, you didn’t need to explain yourself~ that is what Christians believe. Those w/a sense of humor get the joke and those who don’t believe in heaven and hell don’t care.

Andrew, I did start reading a few of the articles you posted, but stopped because I don't believe in that poo-poo!! God rocks and rolls!! Christian or not, you have plenty of sinners reading this board, myself included …I don’t recall a single time, since I’ve been a member, anyone preaching against “The Music.” Some people may go to hell for their tastes, but that’s on them. Oh, and God likes bingo and wine, too … just not at the same time!!

Aren't you supposed to be cooking or doing some laundry? How your man even allows you to operate a mechanical device like a computer is beyond me.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)

Only to keep my fingers nimble so I can do that little thing he likes when I submit ... Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit to your own husbands .... the other wives are responsible for cooking and cleaning!!

[Michigan Girl]

S&M ~All Christians are not the mindless, bible thumping idiots you make them out to be. You, my friend, are as bad as, if not worse, than any bible thumper I have ever met, only in reverse. So what if you don’t believe in the Holy-Trinity, why in the name of some unexplained force does it seem as though you ( and a few others) are preaching to and belittling those who do every time a thread like this comes along. You’re never going to get the proof you want, not from us, so you’re just wasting your finger strokes, causing Jesus to do that face~palm thing and leaving a nasty taste in my mouth. Mindless sheep, my ass!!

Lt Vanish, you didn’t need to explain yourself~ that is what Christians believe. Those w/a sense of humor get the joke and those who don’t believe in heaven and hell don’t care.

Andrew, I did start reading a few of the articles you posted, but stopped because I don't believe in that poo-poo!! God rocks and rolls!! Christian or not, you have plenty of sinners reading this board, myself included …I don’t recall a single time, since I’ve been a member, anyone preaching against “The Music.” Some people may go to hell for their tastes, but that’s on them. Oh, and God likes bingo and wine, too … just not at the same time!!

A question: If YOU saw someone doing something wrong wouldn't YOU correct him/her? If you saw a person peeling a potato with the knife slicing TOWARD the person, wouldn't you explain how to do it the right way? If you saw a person changing a flat tire without the emergency brake engaged, or not properly securing the jack...wouldn't you say something?

That's ALL I'm doing.....I don't think I'm belittling anyone here....

There is a huge difference between trying to help someone
avoid physical harm and insinuating that we are fools for believing in something you don't ...and that is what
you've been doing ...the statement above is a perfect example!!

Sorry Melissa, I guess I'm reading this differently than you, I don't agree!! I understand what you are saying, I would never
have known that you've gone through this personal turmoil because I don't recall you ever saying and you've never
made me feel as though I'm expected to feel the way you do ...just because you do ...I completely
respect what you are going/have gone through ...

[Saint John]

"Religion" expects us to believe that some narcissistic God created us little peons to worship him? What the fuck for? Does he/she have low self esteem? Seems pretty fucking insane to me. Just be a decent person (or better) and live your life. Mel's got it right: "... and if that isn't good enough, oh well."

[Melissa]

Sorry Melissa, I guess I'm reading this differently than you, I don't agree!! I understand what you are saying, I would never
have known that you've gone through this personal turmoil because I don't recall you ever saying and you've never
made me feel as though I'm expected to feel the way you do ...just because you do ...I completely
respect what you are going/have gone through ...

I understand that completely of course, I'm just saying that what I also understand is that some people who may come across that way have also been on that end you are talking about, and they too have been through some personal hells and turmoils, and they have been made to feel like fools for what they may NOT believe. And so I can understand where they are coming from, that's all. I just don't judge cynicism and sarcasm as asshole-ness all the time like some people can, otherwise I'd have to call TONS of people in my life assholes, myself included

[S2M]

MG..it would be HIGHLY irresponsible of me to let you go on believing in something that ain't true....besides - are we really to believe people of that time were that simple as to ask for lame magic tricks like turning water into wine? Why not ask for something useful like Freedom from tyrannical rule, or a get out of a gladiator fight free card? Water into wine...HUUUUPPFFF. Chris Angel can do that shit.

[Duncan]

This sums it up for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztn ... re=related

[Michigan Girl]

MG..it would be HIGHLY irresponsible of me to let you go on believing in something that ain't true....besides - are we really to believe people of that time were that simple as to ask for lame magic tricks like turning water into wine? Why not ask for something useful like Freedom from tyrannical rule, or a get out of a gladiator fight free card? Water into wine...HUUUUPPFFF. Chris Angel can do that shit.

Why don't we see if Voo Doo really works, I've got an S&M doll and a pin cushion ...Holla, y'hear!!

[Rip Rokken]

100%. If only we could all be as smart as some people (think they) are, MG. My ex-h sounded just as arrogant and jackassy when belittling the concepts of religion and faith, like he knew it all, but ... he didn't do it in front of them, and at least he had the respect not to call people stupid right to their faces for being religious or believing in whatever it is they believe in. I mean, there is a way to have this kind of discussion without flat out tearing people apart, calling them stupid, and ripping off lines from stand up comedians thinking it's going to make you sound just clever and funny.

Personally, I'm not really religious, but I don't pretend to have all the answers, either, and I just don't see what's wrong with "live and let live". It's like anything else, people are going to have different approaches to everything.... different musical preferences, different movies they like, different hobbies... and different beliefs.... see the pattern here though.... everytime someone expresses anything around here... music, hobby, movies, personal philosophy, favorite food... anything... this one shows up to tell them why their ideas or likes are dumb or wrong. It's beyond old.

Now, now. S2M doesn't really mean to insult anyone or make them feel less than intelligent. He just likes to be the sinner of attention!

I hope I'm not the one being accused of quoting comedians, and not citing the source....

You just quoted one. Ba-da-BING!

[S2M]

100%. If only we could all be as smart as some people (think they) are, MG. My ex-h sounded just as arrogant and jackassy when belittling the concepts of religion and faith, like he knew it all, but ... he didn't do it in front of them, and at least he had the respect not to call people stupid right to their faces for being religious or believing in whatever it is they believe in. I mean, there is a way to have this kind of discussion without flat out tearing people apart, calling them stupid, and ripping off lines from stand up comedians thinking it's going to make you sound just clever and funny.

Personally, I'm not really religious, but I don't pretend to have all the answers, either, and I just don't see what's wrong with "live and let live". It's like anything else, people are going to have different approaches to everything.... different musical preferences, different movies they like, different hobbies... and different beliefs.... see the pattern here though.... everytime someone expresses anything around here... music, hobby, movies, personal philosophy, favorite food... anything... this one shows up to tell them why their ideas or likes are dumb or wrong. It's beyond old.

Now, now. S2M doesn't really mean to insult anyone or make them feel less than intelligent. He just likes to be the sinner of attention!

I hope I'm not the one being accused of quoting comedians, and not citing the source....

You just quoted one. Ba-da-BING!

Who????? Oh, I get it...YOU are the comedian....sure if a comedian carries around a little purse full of CD sleeves, and a couple of silver sharpies....LMAO

[Rip Rokken]

I hope I'm not the one being accused of quoting comedians, and not citing the source....

You just quoted one. Ba-da-BING!

Who????? Oh, I get it...YOU are the comedian....sure if a comedian carries around a little purse full of CD sleeves, and a couple of silver sharpies....LMAO

A very carefully calculated gimmick designed to make you LYAO.

[Rip Rokken]

I'm not religious anymore
for several personal reasons, and despite my mistakes in life, I know
the goodness of my own heart and soul, and if that's not good
enough when I die, oh well.

If we end up in Hell, I'll be happy to hang out with all of you. Maybe we'll run into Don Dokken and Neal Schon. I'll bring my GPS if you can figure out who has the wind weenie. How does that sound?

[Melissa]

"Religion" expects us to believe that some narcissistic God created us little peons to worship him? What the fuck for? Does he/she have low self esteem? Seems pretty fucking insane to me. Just be a decent person (or better) and live your life. Mel's got it right: "... and if that isn't good enough, oh well."

Dang it I hate when I miss stuff while scrolling on my phone, lol! Thanks Dan, and I meant to say I have related to a lot of what you have stated too.

[Melissa]

I'm not religious anymore
for several personal reasons, and despite my mistakes in life, I know
the goodness of my own heart and soul, and if that's not good
enough when I die, oh well.

If we end up in Hell, I'll be happy to hang out with all of you. Maybe we'll run into Don Dokken and Neal Schon. I'll bring my GPS if you can figure out who has the wind weenie. How does that sound?

We may not be able to get the Wind Weenie from Mimi

[Rip Rokken]

I'm not religious anymore
for several personal reasons, and despite my mistakes in life, I know
the goodness of my own heart and soul, and if that's not good
enough when I die, oh well.

If we end up in Hell, I'll be happy to hang out with all of you. Maybe we'll run into Don Dokken and Neal Schon. I'll bring my GPS if you can figure out who has the wind weenie. How does that sound?

We may not be able to get the Wind Weenie from Mimi

You know, I thought about that after I posted it.

[mikemarrs]

i'll never forget in high school in the late eighties we were in science class and the whole hour we watched this show on evolution and how everything evolved from the beginning of time and the big bang theory.after the film was over the guy sitting next to me asked me if i believed in god or believed what we just watched.it really bothered me a lot then and i started wondering if maybe he was conflicted over the whole thing.i could see where parents would have an issue with it but everyone is free to form their own opinions in their mind about what they believe.

[bluejeangirl76]

I'm not religious anymore
for several personal reasons, and despite my mistakes in life, I know
the goodness of my own heart and soul, and if that's not good
enough when I die, oh well.

If we end up in Hell, I'll be happy to hang out with all of you. Maybe we'll run into Don Dokken and Neal Schon. I'll bring my GPS if you can figure out who has the wind weenie. How does that sound?

There's a thought... you and that GPS, trying to navigate hell.... hey wait - that sounds very familiar.... oh wait, that was Indy. Well, it was HOT and I wanted to throw that damn ass GPS under the nearest truck... that's about as close to hell as I want to get.

[Andrew]

This sums it up for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztn ... re=related

Followed quickly behind by the "Why Does God Make Morons" video I hope.

[Duncan]

i'll never forget in high school in the late eighties we were in science class and the whole hour we watched this show on evolution and how everything evolved from the beginning of time and the big bang theory.after the film was over the guy sitting next to me asked me if i believed in god or believed what we just watched.it really bothered me a lot then and i started wondering if maybe he was conflicted over the whole thing.i could see where parents would have an issue with it but everyone is free to form their own opinions in their mind about what they believe.

If that were the case it would be illegal to have faith schools and children would be censored from religion until they were old enough to make an informed decision. In my opinion one of the main reasons why religion is so pervasive is because children are brainwashed.

[Rip Rokken]

This sums it up for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztn ... re=related

Followed quickly behind by the "Why Does God Make Morons" video I hope.

Or "Why Does Hip-Hop Happen to Good People?"

[DrFU]

We may not be able to get the Wind Weenie from Mimi

You know, I thought about that after I posted it.

I think its original purpose was for use with infants, so it's probably flame retardant ...

[Arianddu]

I think EVERYONE here need to read this VERY informative site ASAP and repeant against everything they outline in their surmons.

http://www.av1611.org/articles.html#Rock

Interesting site Andrew. It's pretty amazing how stupid some people can be.

You know, it's kind of hard to make heaven appealing when you insist that nearly everything that I love about living is going to send me to hell.

[BobbyinTN]

MG..it would be HIGHLY irresponsible of me to let you go on believing in something that ain't true....besides - are we really to believe people of that time were that simple as to ask for lame magic tricks like turning water into wine? Why not ask for something useful like Freedom from tyrannical rule, or a get out of a gladiator fight free card? Water into wine...HUUUUPPFFF. Chris Angel can do that shit.

Now THAT'S funny. Love that one S2M. LOL

[BobbyinTN]

My true religion, my simple faith is in love and compassion. There is no
need for complicated philosophy, doctrine, or dogma. Our own heart, our
own mind, is the temple. The doctrine is compassion. Love for others and
respect for their rights and dignity, no matter who or what they are -
these are ultimately all we need. -- Dalai Lama

[Michigan Girl]

My true religion, my simple faith is in love and compassion. There is no
need for complicated philosophy, doctrine, or dogma. Our own heart, our
own mind, is the temple. The doctrine is compassion. Love for others and
respect for their rights and dignity, no matter who or what they are -
these are ultimately all we need. -- Dalai Lama

I agree w/this... ~R~E~S~P~E~C~T ...Aretha Franklin

[Rip Rokken]

Btw, I've found GOD'S krytonite...it is amputations. I've never heard of ONE miracle where an amputee suddenly woke up with a new arm, leg....etc. No matter how many prayers were sent, god just ignores the Limb Challenged....he doesn't like them. I don't know. He can handle the Blind, the Deaf...Cancer...but for some reason scoffs at them...go figure.

I'll listen to reasons if you have them...

It happened at least once...

Matthew 12:9-14 - Going on from that place, he [Jesus] went into their synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, they asked him, 'Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?' He said to them, 'If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.' Then he said to the man, 'Stretch out your hand.' So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.

Rip, using the Bible to prove the Bible is correct is like using THE LORD OF THE RINGS to prove the existence of Hobbits.

LMAO!!

LOL, I was being facetious of course, since much of the debate has been on the reliability of the Bible. But I don't need any book to prove Hobbits exist -- I've seen them!

[Rip Rokken]

I think its original purpose was for use with infants, so it's probably flame retardant ...

Avoidance of the word "retarded" noted. LOL!

[YoungJRNY]

"Religion" expects us to believe that some narcissistic God created us little peons to worship him? What the fuck for? Does he/she have low self esteem? Seems pretty fucking insane to me. Just be a decent person (or better) and live your life. Mel's got it right: "... and if that isn't good enough, oh well."

See my earlier post: Gods an asshole. If he would create the universe and life on Earth, why wouldn't he design all of us to have powers such as he? Instead, after he found that Dinosaurs are boring, he sat there and "hopes" and puts his own "faith" into leading himself to believe that we will worship him and only him, and if we don't, then we pay for it. Like I said, what a dick. God is actually as IMMORAL as it gets.

Faith is all over the place and doesn't plug God into reality. Like many have said, tons upon tons of other religions put their faith in a different God and to them, their faith is the correct faith. What happens to us when we die, and we find out that Allah is the real God. Heh, we're ALL fucked, but this life is irrelevant anyway and just a test.

.. in George Carlin's case, what if Joe Peschi is the GOD? Peschi DID answer Carlin's prayers at a 50/50 percent rate compared to God. The plot thickens..

[Rip Rokken]

If he would create the universe and life on Earth, why wouldn't he design all of us to have powers such as he? Instead, after he found that Dinosaurs are boring, he sat there and "hopes" and puts his own "faith" into leading himself to believe that we will worship him and only him, and if we don't, then we pay for it. Like I said, what a dick.

When a lot of people think of the 10 Commandments, and how just posting them in our schools would be a great guide for kids, they aren't really thinking. Here are the first three:

1. You shall have no other gods before me.

2. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

And as far as the 7th day being a day of rest, far from it.

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Now, if you do apparently do anything so little as pick sticks up off the ground, apparently the penalty was death. I watched Bil Maher's documentary "Religulous" where he interviews some Jews who have gone to extraordinary lengths to invent machines that accomplish things without breaking the Sabbath laws.

Can you freaking imagine this? Think if your boss gave you two days off to "rest", but placed such restrictions on the definition of rest that work days might have actually been a relief. Even if the New Testament way is different, that's apparently the way it was at one time, and it makes no sense. Definitely wouldn't foster love toward whoever makes the rules.

As ridiculous as it is, some of our current laws still carry that influence, such as the inability to purchase alcohol in stores on Sundays (that includes non-alcoholic beer, btw).

[Rip Rokken]

Here ya go on that stick-gathering example:

Numbers 15:32-36 (New American Standard Bible)

32 Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day.

33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation;

34 and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him.

35 Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp."

36 So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.

In my world, the kiss-ass tattle-tales would have gotten stoned (with rocks, not with pot, lol).