CHILD ABUSE!!!!

[StevePerryHair]

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.

Probably because it doesn't apply. You're comparing blueberries and dingleberries. A mother and son relationship is that of authoritative figure and subordinate, and a husband and wife relationship is that of equals.

I think this whole things revolves around, especially for the mothers here, this being done by a woman. Had this been a father and son, we wouldn't have this level of outrage, and possibly no outrage.

Aw, but it USED to be that a man DID dominate his wife legally..... maybe this case is a step forward for kids rights... times are a changin!!

I would be PISSED if my husband ever tortured my son to get him to comply! Are you kidding me?? No difference to me at all!!

[StevePerryHair]

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.

That totally different cause a spouse isnt in charge of discipline the other spouse. Well except for Steveo's wife maybe who should use some of these methods to get Steveo to behave

Yeah but with man sauce already in there, would the hot sauce even matter?

Youre talkin about Neal's man sauce in Steveo's mouth ?

I had to read melissa's post THREE times!! I'm not kidding!! Because I was trying to figure out how YOU changed her words, but weren't in the quotes!!

[Behshad]

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.

Probably because it doesn't apply. You're comparing blueberries and dingleberries. A mother and son relationship is that of authoritative figure and subordinate, and a husband and wife relationship is that of equals.

I think this whole things revolves around, especially for the mothers here, this being done by a woman. Had this been a father and son, we wouldn't have this level of outrage, and possibly no outrage.

Not true for me at all. Father/son, mother/son, father/daughter, mother/daughter, wouldn't change my view of those actions one bit.

Are you by chance from Kentucky and/or related to Gideon?

[Behshad]

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.

Probably because it doesn't apply. You're comparing blueberries and dingleberries. A mother and son relationship is that of authoritative figure and subordinate, and a husband and wife relationship is that of equals.

I think this whole things revolves around, especially for the mothers here, this being done by a woman. Had this been a father and son, we wouldn't have this level of outrage, and possibly no outrage.

Aw, but it USED to be that a man DID dominate his wife legally..... maybe this case is a step forward for kids rights... times are a changin!!

I would be PISSED if my husband ever tortured my son to get him to comply! Are you kidding me?? No difference to me at all!!

Unfortunately times HAVE changed when it comes to a parent and discipline their child,,, while it may have helped kids that needed help, it has also harmed many innocent parents as well

[StevePerryHair]

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.

Probably because it doesn't apply. You're comparing blueberries and dingleberries. A mother and son relationship is that of authoritative figure and subordinate, and a husband and wife relationship is that of equals.

I think this whole things revolves around, especially for the mothers here, this being done by a woman. Had this been a father and son, we wouldn't have this level of outrage, and possibly no outrage.

Aw, but it USED to be that a man DID dominate his wife legally..... maybe this case is a step forward for kids rights... times are a changin!!

I would be PISSED if my husband ever tortured my son to get him to comply! Are you kidding me?? No difference to me at all!!

Unfortunately times HAVE changed when it comes to a parent and discipline their child,,, while it may have helped kids that needed help, it has also harmed many innocent parents as well

But are these parents innocent? That's the question. We have laws to be followed, and child abuse laws are no different. There ARE guidelines to corporal punishment, that are acceptable and not illegal. It's really the job of a parent to find out what they are, and use them within the law, as you would anything you do.

[Michigan Girl]

I said she uses torture as her method of punishment!!

Fair enough, MG. But do you really think it's torture? Right from the dictionary, and right after your definition: "extreme anguish of body or mind; agony." Is this kid really in agony? And from what? The crying and histrionics only start when the cold water does. that's just not torture. It's being uncomfortable ... because you were an asshole! And don't bother telling me to go take a cold shower either!

What hurt me the most, from an emotional standpoint, was the way
he just accepted the hot sauce, no tears, no fight …mild or not.
I was actually relieved when he screamed in the shower, thus
proving he still had something in there. It is very hard for me
to watch that vid and not be emotional. When one hurts someone
they love, more than life, it’s beyond my comprehension.

What your mother did for you, that was her last hope, that was love …
the woman was fighting for you!! I feel the love and
desperation in that story. I do not feel the love from this woman.
What’s considered torture for one, may not be so to another.
I would not be able to defend her in a court of law.

[Behshad]

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.

Probably because it doesn't apply. You're comparing blueberries and dingleberries. A mother and son relationship is that of authoritative figure and subordinate, and a husband and wife relationship is that of equals.

I think this whole things revolves around, especially for the mothers here, this being done by a woman. Had this been a father and son, we wouldn't have this level of outrage, and possibly no outrage.

Aw, but it USED to be that a man DID dominate his wife legally..... maybe this case is a step forward for kids rights... times are a changin!!

I would be PISSED if my husband ever tortured my son to get him to comply! Are you kidding me?? No difference to me at all!!

Unfortunately times HAVE changed when it comes to a parent and discipline their child,,, while it may have helped kids that needed help, it has also harmed many innocent parents as well

But are these parents innocent? That's the question. We have laws to be followed, and child abuse laws are no different. There ARE guidelines to corporal punishment, that are acceptable and not illegal. It's really the job of a parent to find out what they are, and use them within the law, as you would anything you do.

Which parents ??
There are innocent parents who get harmed because of the new laws, Thats my point.
You can not get rid of child (or spouse ) abuse by laws. Even tho laws have changed and women arent properties no more, there are still men out there that treat women like shit and treat them like properties.
I am not defending the actions of horrible parents. Just stating the fact that LAWS created to make it better for children, also do get misused and harm innocent parents.

[conversationpc]

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.

Probably because it doesn't apply. You're comparing blueberries and dingleberries. A mother and son relationship is that of authoritative figure and subordinate, and a husband and wife relationship is that of equals.

I think this whole things revolves around, especially for the mothers here, this being done by a woman. Had this been a father and son, we wouldn't have this level of outrage, and possibly no outrage.

Aw, but it USED to be that a man DID dominate his wife legally..... maybe this case is a step forward for kids rights... times are a changin!!

I would be PISSED if my husband ever tortured my son to get him to comply! Are you kidding me?? No difference to me at all!!

Unfortunately times HAVE changed when it comes to a parent and discipline their child,,, while it may have helped kids that needed help, it has also harmed many innocent parents as well

But are these parents innocent? That's the question. We have laws to be followed, and child abuse laws are no different. There ARE guidelines to corporal punishment, that are acceptable and not illegal. It's really the job of a parent to find out what they are, and use them within the law, as you would anything you do.

Yes, according to US law, they are innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately, I know of parents who've been robbed of their children without proof and who likely did absolutely nothing worthy of having their children removed other than some over-zealous CPS worker got their panties in a wad.

[Behshad]

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.

Probably because it doesn't apply. You're comparing blueberries and dingleberries. A mother and son relationship is that of authoritative figure and subordinate, and a husband and wife relationship is that of equals.

I think this whole things revolves around, especially for the mothers here, this being done by a woman. Had this been a father and son, we wouldn't have this level of outrage, and possibly no outrage.

Aw, but it USED to be that a man DID dominate his wife legally..... maybe this case is a step forward for kids rights... times are a changin!!

I would be PISSED if my husband ever tortured my son to get him to comply! Are you kidding me?? No difference to me at all!!

Unfortunately times HAVE changed when it comes to a parent and discipline their child,,, while it may have helped kids that needed help, it has also harmed many innocent parents as well

But are these parents innocent? That's the question. We have laws to be followed, and child abuse laws are no different. There ARE guidelines to corporal punishment, that are acceptable and not illegal. It's really the job of a parent to find out what they are, and use them within the law, as you would anything you do.

Yes, according to US law, they are innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately, I know of parents who've been robbed of their children without proof and who likely did absolutely nothing worthy of having their children removed other than some over-zealous CPS worker got their panties in a wad.

^^^ This ^^^

[Saint John]

I said she uses torture as her method of punishment!!

Fair enough, MG. But do you really think it's torture? Right from the dictionary, and right after your definition: "extreme anguish of body or mind; agony." Is this kid really in agony? And from what? The crying and histrionics only start when the cold water does. that's just not torture. It's being uncomfortable ... because you were an asshole! And don't bother telling me to go take a cold shower either!

What hurt me the most, from an emotional standpoint, was the way
he just accepted the hot sauce, no tears, no fight …mild or not.
I was actually relieved when he screamed in the shower, thus
proving he still had something in there. It is very hard for me
to watch that vid and not be emotional. When one hurts someone
they love, more than life, it’s beyond my comprehension.

What your mother did for you, that was her last hope, that was love …
the woman was fighting for you!! I feel the love and
desperation in that story. I do not feel the love from this woman.
What’s considered torture for one, may not be so to another.
I would not be able to defend her in a court of law.

Great counterpoints. Kudos.

[Behshad]

I said she uses torture as her method of punishment!!

Fair enough, MG. But do you really think it's torture? Right from the dictionary, and right after your definition: "extreme anguish of body or mind; agony." Is this kid really in agony? And from what? The crying and histrionics only start when the cold water does. that's just not torture. It's being uncomfortable ... because you were an asshole! And don't bother telling me to go take a cold shower either!

What hurt me the most, from an emotional standpoint, was the way
he just accepted the hot sauce, no tears, no fight …mild or not.
I was actually relieved when he screamed in the shower, thus
proving he still had something in there. It is very hard for me
to watch that vid and not be emotional. When one hurts someone
they love, more than life, it’s beyond my comprehension.

What your mother did for you, that was her last hope, that was love …
the woman was fighting for you!! I feel the love and
desperation in that story. I do not feel the love from this woman.
What’s considered torture for one, may not be so to another.
I would not be able to defend her in a court of law.

Great counterpoints. Kudos.

I think MG might have reached deep within and found "lil Dan" inside the tough guy Danilow we all know .... ~ tear

[Melissa]

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.

That totally different cause a spouse isnt in charge of discipline the other spouse. Well except for Steveo's wife maybe who should use some of these methods to get Steveo to behave

Yeah but with man sauce already in there, would the hot sauce even matter?

Youre talkin about Neal's man sauce in Steveo's mouth ?

I had to read melissa's post THREE times!! I'm not kidding!! Because I was trying to figure out how YOU changed her words, but weren't in the quotes!!

And I still don't see a good argument as to why this wouldn't be ok for a spouse to do this to another spouse. Saying that it's because spouses are just equals is weak!

[Melissa]

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.

Probably because it doesn't apply. You're comparing blueberries and dingleberries. A mother and son relationship is that of authoritative figure and subordinate, and a husband and wife relationship is that of equals.

I think this whole things revolves around, especially for the mothers here, this being done by a woman. Had this been a father and son, we wouldn't have this level of outrage, and possibly no outrage.

Not true for me at all. Father/son, mother/son, father/daughter, mother/daughter, wouldn't change my view of those actions one bit.

Are you by chance from Kentucky and/or related to Gideon?

Nope! But I did hear recently that the way they define safe sex in KY is to put warning signs on the animals that kick

[Melissa]

What hurt me the most, from an emotional standpoint, was the way
he just accepted the hot sauce, no tears, no fight …mild or not.
I was actually relieved when he screamed in the shower, thus
proving he still had something in there. It is very hard for me
to watch that vid and not be emotional. When one hurts someone
they love, more than life, it’s beyond my comprehension.

What your mother did for you, that was her last hope, that was love …
the woman was fighting for you!! I feel the love and
desperation in that story. I do not feel the love from this woman.
What’s considered torture for one, may not be so to another.
I would not be able to defend her in a court of law.

Ditto.

[Behshad]

Still no answer on what anyone would think if this were a video of a husband doing those EXACT same things to a wife huh? Interesting.

That totally different cause a spouse isnt in charge of discipline the other spouse. Well except for Steveo's wife maybe who should use some of these methods to get Steveo to behave

Yeah but with man sauce already in there, would the hot sauce even matter?

Youre talkin about Neal's man sauce in Steveo's mouth ?

I had to read melissa's post THREE times!! I'm not kidding!! Because I was trying to figure out how YOU changed her words, but weren't in the quotes!!

And I still don't see a good argument as to why this wouldn't be ok for a spouse to do this to another spouse. Saying that it's because spouses are just equals is weak!

Once again I am not defending child abusing parents, but your comparison is just not vaild. If you go by that analogy then if a married couple is into S&M , then by all means they should be allowed to use the whip and chains on their children too

[Saint John]

A good article:

An Alaskan mom who sought help from Dr. Phil has been charged with child abuse after footage from his show that showed her extreme discipline methods went viral. Jessica Beagley resorted to punishing her 7-year-old son with cold showers and hot sauce on his tongue when he lied. Viewers were outraged by what they saw and complained to police, who launched an investigation.

"What happens when you lie to me?" she asks in the video

"I get hot sauce. You get hot sauce," the boy responds.

The mom asks, "What else happens when you lie to me?"

"I get a cold shower," he says, and the footage shows him screaming in the shower.

I know parents who use hot sauce as a discipline tool. I have threatened my own 7-year-old son with it. Fortunately, he's pretty well behaved and a random time-out or the threat of losing a favorite toy is the most I've ever had to use as punishment. But if he was out of control, I don't know what I'd do. Hot sauce? Perhaps. I don't think that falls into the child abuse category.

As for the cold showers, those get closer to the line, but I'm still not convinced they cross it. It's not something I could do to my own child, but unless they're left in there for a lengthy time, it's not causing them physical harm, and her intent wasn't to harm him but to make him behave. What about parents who force their children to run laps, or do push-ups, or clean toilets as punishment -- where do we draw the line?

One psychologist on The Early Show said the anxiety and shock of such treatment can lead to a type of post-traumatic stress disorder. But a parent who yells incessantly or ignores her children for computer games could likely do damage as well -- are we going to lock them up too? Just how far do we want the law to go into the way we raise our children?

Beagley's husband is a police officer; they're active in their church. They've adopted four children from Russia (one of whom is the boy in the video); social services has investigated and found no signs of abuse. She doesn't sound like an abuser to me, but rather a mom trying to find something that works, a mom who needs help and asked for it, but got handed child abuse charges instead.

Do you think "hot sauce mom" should be charged with child abuse?

[Melissa]

Yes, according to US law, they are innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately, I know of parents who've been robbed of their children without proof and who likely did absolutely nothing worthy of having their children removed other than some over-zealous CPS worker got their panties in a wad.

Not disputing that, yes that happens and it's unfortunate. But the US law is also VERY flawed when it comes to protecting kids also. What happened to Caylee Anthony is a perfect example.

[S2M]

How many have sent their kid(s) to bed without any dinner?
If you have, yet find hotsauce momma abusive - you may be a hypocrite....just saying.

[Melissa]

Once again I am not defending child abusing parents, but your comparison is just not vaild. If you go by that analogy then if a married couple is into S&M , then by all means they should be allowed to use the whip and chains on their children too

And it is valid because if this had been a video of a husband doing this to a wife, the opinions would be different and he would be labeled a spouse abuser, guaranteed.

[Behshad]

Once again I am not defending child abusing parents, but your comparison is just not vaild. If you go by that analogy then if a married couple is into S&M , then by all means they should be allowed to use the whip and chains on their children too

And it is valid because if this had been a video of a husband doing this to a wife, the opinions would be different and he would be labeled a spouse abuser, guaranteed.

So basically you think its ok that if a wife and husband are into S&M , they can just have a family fun friday night and get the kids involved in the fun ?

[Melissa]

Once again I am not defending child abusing parents, but your comparison is just not vaild. If you go by that analogy then if a married couple is into S&M , then by all means they should be allowed to use the whip and chains on their children too

And it is valid because if this had been a video of a husband doing this to a wife, the opinions would be different and he would be labeled a spouse abuser, guaranteed.

So basically you think its ok that if a wife and husband are into S&M , they can just have a family fun friday night and get the kids involved in the fun ?

Um hello? NO, I was just laughing at what I assumed was a joke?

[Melissa]

How many have sent their kid(s) to bed without any dinner?
If you have, yet find hotsauce momma abusive - you may be a hypocrite....just saying.

I haven't done that. Hunger as discipline, yeah another great method

[Behshad]

Once again I am not defending child abusing parents, but your comparison is just not vaild. If you go by that analogy then if a married couple is into S&M , then by all means they should be allowed to use the whip and chains on their children too

And it is valid because if this had been a video of a husband doing this to a wife, the opinions would be different and he would be labeled a spouse abuser, guaranteed.

So basically you think its ok that if a wife and husband are into S&M , they can just have a family fun friday night and get the kids involved in the fun ?

Um hello? NO, I was just laughing at what I assumed was a joke?

not a joke... your analogy makes my point valid ! if you can compare whats between husband & wife to whats between parent and children, then where do you stop

[Melissa]

not a joke... your analogy makes my point valid ! if you can compare whats between husband & wife to whats between parent and children, then where do you stop

Sorry but that's a ridiculous point. I'm not comparing relationships, I'm talking about what is ok for one human being to do to another.

[conversationpc]

How many have sent their kid(s) to bed without any dinner?
If you have, yet find hotsauce momma abusive - you may be a hypocrite....just saying.

I haven't done that. Hunger as discipline, yeah another great method

We don't do it but if it's an occasional thing, then whoop-de-do. Most kids in this country aren't going to suffer by missing one meal.

[Saint John]

Once again I am not defending child abusing parents, but your comparison is just not vaild. If you go by that analogy then if a married couple is into S&M , then by all means they should be allowed to use the whip and chains on their children too

And it is valid because if this had been a video of a husband doing this to a wife, the opinions would be different and he would be labeled a spouse abuser, guaranteed.

A child is supposed to listen to their parents and they have legal authority over them to do so, in most instances. Are you suggesting that the same be granted for husband and wife? Furthermore, let's take your example and flip it around. Let's show a wife doing this to her husband ... and see how many laughs we get!

[Behshad]

not a joke... your analogy makes my point valid ! if you can compare whats between husband & wife to whats between parent and children, then where do you stop

Sorry but that's a ridiculous point. I'm not comparing relationships, I'm talking about what is ok for one human being to do to another.

Youre basically saying that anything that goes for in a household should be viewed the same, whether its wife/husband father/son mother/son mother/daughter father'daughter

Abuse is wrong , regardless of who is doin it to whom. But bringin in the spouse example is not a valid point. thats why I had to bring up my point to disprove your analogy .
There are people who get mad over the video of animals getting tortured and dont shed a tear when they see a mom abuse her child. Thats fucked up too.

[Melissa]

Once again I am not defending child abusing parents, but your comparison is just not vaild. If you go by that analogy then if a married couple is into S&M , then by all means they should be allowed to use the whip and chains on their children too

And it is valid because if this had been a video of a husband doing this to a wife, the opinions would be different and he would be labeled a spouse abuser, guaranteed.

A child is supposed to listen to their parents and they have legal authority over them to do so, in most instances. Are you suggesting that the same be granted for husband and wife? Furthermore, let's take your example and flip it around. Let's show a wife doing this to her husband ... and see how many laughs we get!

You might laugh, but yeah there are women who do that too, and they get arrersted for domestic violence also. So flip it around, fine and dandy, but I'm not understanding why you think that means I think spouses are supposed to have legal authority to listen to the other That's not the point, the point was if this were a video of another adult doing this to another adult, spouse to spouse, it would be considered domestic abuse and the person performing it would be going to jail.

[conversationpc]

There are people who get mad over the video of animals getting tortured and dont shed a tear when they see a mom abuse her child. Thats fucked up too.

That's something that really torques me, people who seem to care a lot more about animals being abused than people.

[Melissa]

not a joke... your analogy makes my point valid ! if you can compare whats between husband & wife to whats between parent and children, then where do you stop

Sorry but that's a ridiculous point. I'm not comparing relationships, I'm talking about what is ok for one human being to do to another.

Youre basically saying that anything that goes for in a household should be viewed the same, whether its wife/husband father/son mother/son mother/daughter father'daughter

Abuse is wrong , regardless of who is doin it to whom. But bringin in the spouse example is not a valid point. thats why I had to bring up my point to disprove your analogy .
There are people who get mad over the video of animals getting tortured and dont shed a tear when they see a mom abuse her child. Thats fucked up too.

I said that because the point Dan had made was that the ONLY reason any woman here got upset is because it was another woman doing it to her son, and that doesn't matter to ME. If it had been a dad doing it, I'd view it the same way, as bullying his child into submissive fear. And I don't see how the same thing happening from one spouse to another isn't a valid point.. it would still be viewed to ME as one person bullying another into submissive fear. Period.