I Admit The Sandusky Situation Is A Bad Look.

[AR]

Thursday morning, Mark Madden, a Pittsburgh radio host who wrote a story seven months ago envisioning Sandusky's downfall, went on WEEI's Dennis & Callahan Morning Show to discuss the scandal. At the 7:15 mark here, he's asked about the "next shoe to drop." Here are his remarks:

I can give you a rumor, and I can give you something I think might happen. I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile foundation. And, hold on to your stomachs because this is gross, I'll use the only language that I can, that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to donors. This is being investigated by two prominent columnists as I speak.

Madden also speculates it'll be revealed that Sandusky was told to retire as part of a cover-up.

Mark Madden is a former WCW wrestling announcer and a known asshole. Consider the source. There's enough awful things going on here without him spouting off unsubstantiated rumors.

Even if it turns out to be true, that loudmouth shouldn't be spouting off on a rumor he's heard.

Madden is an asshole, but he has been following Sandusky for years trying to get SOMEONE to look into this perv. I wouldn't discount him based on not liking him.

I'm not saying he may not be on to something. He just has a history of being irresponsible in what he puts out there.

[Ehwmatt]

Thursday morning, Mark Madden, a Pittsburgh radio host who wrote a story seven months ago envisioning Sandusky's downfall, went on WEEI's Dennis & Callahan Morning Show to discuss the scandal. At the 7:15 mark here, he's asked about the "next shoe to drop." Here are his remarks:

I can give you a rumor, and I can give you something I think might happen. I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile foundation. And, hold on to your stomachs because this is gross, I'll use the only language that I can, that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to donors. This is being investigated by two prominent columnists as I speak.

Madden also speculates it'll be revealed that Sandusky was told to retire as part of a cover-up.

Mark Madden is a former WCW wrestling announcer and a known asshole. Consider the source. There's enough awful things going on here without him spouting off unsubstantiated rumors.

Even if it turns out to be true, that loudmouth shouldn't be spouting off on a rumor he's heard.

Madden is an asshole, but he has been following Sandusky for years trying to get SOMEONE to look into this perv. I wouldn't discount him based on not liking him.

I'm not saying he may not be on to something. He just has a history of being irresponsible in what he puts out there.

Who doesn't? It really doesn't sound like that much of a stretch to me. As I said above, sex trafficking is OUT there in this country. This isn't something that goes on in shithole eastern European countries. It happens right here in this country. And not just in the ghettos.

[Michigan Girl]

Thursday morning, Mark Madden, a Pittsburgh radio host who wrote a story seven months ago envisioning Sandusky's downfall, went on WEEI's Dennis & Callahan Morning Show to discuss the scandal. At the 7:15 mark here, he's asked about the "next shoe to drop." Here are his remarks:

I can give you a rumor, and I can give you something I think might happen. I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile foundation. And, hold on to your stomachs because this is gross, I'll use the only language that I can, that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to donors. This is being investigated by two prominent columnists as I speak.

Madden also speculates it'll be revealed that Sandusky was told to retire as part of a cover-up.

Mark Madden is a former WCW wrestling announcer and a known asshole. Consider the source. There's enough awful things going on here without him spouting off unsubstantiated rumors.

Even if it turns out to be true, that loudmouth shouldn't be spouting off on a rumor he's heard.

Um..did you see the 7 month old article he wrote on this subject? I posted it above on page 6 this morning..Madden, whoever he is, knew some scoop on this long ago....how do you explain Bernstein and Doyle from CBS? Madden said in that radio interview that the whole NCAA Football establishment knew about Sandusky, and that helps explain why a young, well respected coach never moved up or on from PSU.

I would think so, yes ...you know he was approached with job offers from all over the country. This news spread faster
than a high school ho. Yet, nothing was done in '98 where it should've died!!

[Ehwmatt]

Hey, get this shit...Ray Gricar, the guy who disappeared.....well he had a brother named Roy...seems Roy lived right up the road from me in West Chester, Ohio. He disappeared from his home in May 1996. His body was found a week later in the Great Miami River; authorities ruled his death a suicide.




cue twlight zone theme.....

Ray was Cleveland-born and raised. As I said when you first brought this up, I've followed Ray's case for a couple years through a Cleveland crime journalist who blogs and writes about mysterious/unsolved cold cases. Is 96 significant? Were there any allegations then? If anything, this makes it more likely Gricar killed himself or disappeared of his own volition because this type of shit tends to run in families.

[scarygirl]

I admired Sandusky.
Never looked into his BG to see what might have caused this behavior though?

Good lord. Here we go with the he must have been abused as a child therefore he abuses other excuse. Give me a break. There are millions of adults who suffered horrific abuse who go on to never harm a fly. Here's a reason for you. What about some people are just out for their desserts and could care less about the cost to others. Fry all of them. They are all culpable.

[scarygirl]

Why didn't the parents go to the authorities?

Best question I have heard throughout all of this. They're as responsible as Paterno if NOT moreso!

Maybe they did, but the police wouldn't do anything. You have to consider too the population being targeted. Child predators go after kids from broken homes, ones who aren't be looked after, kids who don't have it all going on. Maybe the parents were unaware. Children don't tell. They are too scared. They are afraid they will be blamed and no longer loved.

[Rockindeano]

I admired Sandusky.
Never looked into his BG to see what might have caused this behavior though?

Good lord. Here we go with the he must have been abused as a child therefore he abuses other excuse. Give me a break. There are millions of adults who suffered horrific abuse who go on to never harm a fly. Here's a reason for you. What about some people are just out for their desserts and could care less about the cost to others. Fry all of them. They are all culpable.

Oh how fucking Christian of you. You far leaning whacko Christians tend to put your ideals and thoughts above all the rest of others in society. Red13 was exactly right in wondering if Sandbuttsky's past was tarnished with exploitation and violation. There IS a pattern to repeated behaviour in people's lives and the facts bear that out. Get off your Goddamned high horse and "think" for a minute. You ever consider the possibility that Sandbuttsky is a monster, and really cannot help himself? Perhaps he is so fucked up and KNOWS it....ever think he was trying to get caught? After all, if I was going to rape a 10 yr old boy and I had sound mind about me, I sure as hell wouldn't do it in bright lit public showers of a big name football program where there was bound to be foot traffic 8 feet away! I would have went to a darkened office. Yeah, writing that was difficult, but I hope you get my point.

[Rockindeano]

Hey, get this shit...Ray Gricar, the guy who disappeared.....well he had a brother named Roy...seems Roy lived right up the road from me in West Chester, Ohio. He disappeared from his home in May 1996. His body was found a week later in the Great Miami River; authorities ruled his death a suicide.




cue twlight zone theme.....

Cue it? Hell it's been playing on repeat for 48 hours. I am willing to bet the disappearances of the Gricar boys IS related to this sick fuckin mess.

This is Salem all over. Burn the Witches in central PA?

[Rockindeano]

Hey, get this shit...Ray Gricar, the guy who disappeared.....well he had a brother named Roy...seems Roy lived right up the road from me in West Chester, Ohio. He disappeared from his home in May 1996. His body was found a week later in the Great Miami River; authorities ruled his death a suicide.




cue twlight zone theme.....

Cue it? Hell it's been playing on repeat for 48 hours. I am willing to bet the disappearances of the Gricar boys IS related to this sick fuckin mess.

This is Salem all over. Burn the Witches in central PA?

Dean, from reading all about this shit today I've learned that alot of people are wondering if Ray Gricar isn't in the Federal Witness Protection Program...I've seen that posited in at least 3 or 4 places today. Wouldn't surprise me in the least and could explain why Spanier didn't get that job in the Obama Admin I posted about. When Gricar let Sandusky off the hook for the 1998 showering incident, I'd bet a million bucks that he didn't take his eyes off of Sandusky. He may have been set loose to set a trap, and then Gricar walked in to a high roller child sex ring that would kill you at the drop of a hat to cover it up. Just a thought.

Don't think for a minute the feds aren't looking at this.

[Red13JoePa]

I admired Sandusky.
Never looked into his BG to see what might have caused this behavior though?

Good lord. Here we go with the he must have been abused as a child therefore he abuses other excuse. Give me a break. There are millions of adults who suffered horrific abuse who go on to never harm a fly. Here's a reason for you. What about some people are just out for their desserts and could care less about the cost to others. Fry all of them. They are all culpable.

Not excusing Sandusky at all, just wondering if something happened to him or if he had a normal childhoond and youth or not.
Not sure you can be a complete and total window licker like this and not have some kinda reason.

[conversationpc]

I admired Sandusky.
Never looked into his BG to see what might have caused this behavior though?

Good lord. Here we go with the he must have been abused as a child therefore he abuses other excuse. Give me a break. There are millions of adults who suffered horrific abuse who go on to never harm a fly. Here's a reason for you. What about some people are just out for their desserts and could care less about the cost to others. Fry all of them. They are all culpable.

Not excusing Sandusky at all, just wondering if something happened to him or if he had a normal childhoond and youth or not.
Not sure you can be a complete and total window licker like this and not have some kinda reason.

It certainly isn't an excuse for his behavior but, you have to admit, that people who do this kind of thing usually have something pretty horrible having happened to them in their background.

[scarygirl]

I admired Sandusky.
Never looked into his BG to see what might have caused this behavior though?

Good lord. Here we go with the he must have been abused as a child therefore he abuses other excuse. Give me a break. There are millions of adults who suffered horrific abuse who go on to never harm a fly. Here's a reason for you. What about some people are just out for their desserts and could care less about the cost to others. Fry all of them. They are all culpable.

Oh how fucking Christian of you. You far leaning whacko Christians tend to put your ideals and thoughts above all the rest of others in society. Red13 was exactly right in wondering if Sandbuttsky's past was tarnished with exploitation and violation. There IS a pattern to repeated behaviour in people's lives and the facts bear that out. Get off your Goddamned high horse and "think" for a minute. You ever consider the possibility that Sandbuttsky is a monster, and really cannot help himself? Perhaps he is so fucked up and KNOWS it....ever think he was trying to get caught? After all, if I was going to rape a 10 yr old boy and I had sound mind about me, I sure as hell wouldn't do it in bright lit public showers of a big name football program where there was bound to be foot traffic 8 feet away! I would have went to a darkened office. Yeah, writing that was difficult, but I hope you get my point.

My definition of fry is a matter of semantics, not literal. But yeah, everyone who knew and did nothing is culpable. If this guy was abused during his childhood I feel for him, but it is not inevitable that the abused become abusers themselves. What is wrong with me feeling a little infuriated by the abuse excuse? What is wrong with me thinking that it is an insult to people who have been abused?Kids get scrutiny enough over stuff like this without having the FUTURE ABUSER sign hung on their back. While there may be some who go on to abuse it isn't inevitable. And it isn't an excuse. With the exception of sociopaths we are all born with a sense of right and wrong. But somewhere along the way we choose to block out the sense of wrong. We have all blocked out the wrong to varying degrees. I am no exception.

[Rockindeano]

My definition of fry is a matter of semantics, not literal. But yeah, everyone who knew and did nothing is culpable.

Now I am actually seriously inquiring if Joe Pa really did know the intracacies of Sandbuttsky in the shower stall with cub scouts. perhaps the old man really honestly did not quite "know" or grasp the act. After all, Paterno has an impeccable past. The guy was squeaky clean for 84 years. Perhaps he deserves the benefit of the doubt. I wish he would shun legal advice and speak out to trhe media on his front lawn, and somehow someway, deny all of this. THAT would be awesome. If Paterno said that, I for one would switch sides yesterday. I want to believe the old guy, really badly.

I cannot wait to see that stadium on noon on Saturday. It's going to be fucking wild. They may bury Nebraska by 30, even though Nebraska is the much bettere team...PSU will be so jacked to play for Dad, that they may be invincible.

[scarygirl]

I admired Sandusky.
Never looked into his BG to see what might have caused this behavior though?

Good lord. Here we go with the he must have been abused as a child therefore he abuses other excuse. Give me a break. There are millions of adults who suffered horrific abuse who go on to never harm a fly. Here's a reason for you. What about some people are just out for their desserts and could care less about the cost to others. Fry all of them. They are all culpable.

Not excusing Sandusky at all, just wondering if something happened to him or if he had a normal childhoond and youth or not.
Not sure you can be a complete and total window licker like this and not have some kinda reason.

But why does there have to be a reason? I think bringing up his past is a little bit of an excuse. I just don't understand why we have to automatically go there. These perps are almost never caught and given slaps on the wrist. It just isn't right.

[RossValoryRocks]

I admired Sandusky.
Never looked into his BG to see what might have caused this behavior though?

Good lord. Here we go with the he must have been abused as a child therefore he abuses other excuse. Give me a break. There are millions of adults who suffered horrific abuse who go on to never harm a fly. Here's a reason for you. What about some people are just out for their desserts and could care less about the cost to others. Fry all of them. They are all culpable.

Oh how fucking Christian of you. You far leaning whacko Christians tend to put your ideals and thoughts above all the rest of others in society. Red13 was exactly right in wondering if Sandbuttsky's past was tarnished with exploitation and violation. There IS a pattern to repeated behaviour in people's lives and the facts bear that out. Get off your Goddamned high horse and "think" for a minute. You ever consider the possibility that Sandbuttsky is a monster, and really cannot help himself? Perhaps he is so fucked up and KNOWS it....ever think he was trying to get caught? After all, if I was going to rape a 10 yr old boy and I had sound mind about me, I sure as hell wouldn't do it in bright lit public showers of a big name football program where there was bound to be foot traffic 8 feet away! I would have went to a darkened office. Yeah, writing that was difficult, but I hope you get my point.

Dude...regardless...sick or not sick...he needs to go to jail FOREVER...Hell I even advocate the death penalty in this case...he set up his "charity" to gain access to these poor children...and its coming out he passed the kids around to the sick fucks who contributed. If he could not "help" himself he wouldn't have set up the charity...he would have been staking out playground. He set up a criminal enterprise, disguised as a charity to exploit those kids, that isn't a sign of a being mental ill, it's a sign of being a completely amoral individual out for their own gratification.

You can't have it both ways here, and you know it. You talk about "Christian" morals and berate SG for wanting someone to pay the ultimate price for his destruction of these kids lives , and yet in the same thought look for ways to diminish his culpability.

Real fucking nice...he's suddenly is a victim in your eyes.

[Rockindeano]

I admired Sandusky.
Never looked into his BG to see what might have caused this behavior though?

Good lord. Here we go with the he must have been abused as a child therefore he abuses other excuse. Give me a break. There are millions of adults who suffered horrific abuse who go on to never harm a fly. Here's a reason for you. What about some people are just out for their desserts and could care less about the cost to others. Fry all of them. They are all culpable.

Oh how fucking Christian of you. You far leaning whacko Christians tend to put your ideals and thoughts above all the rest of others in society. Red13 was exactly right in wondering if Sandbuttsky's past was tarnished with exploitation and violation. There IS a pattern to repeated behaviour in people's lives and the facts bear that out. Get off your Goddamned high horse and "think" for a minute. You ever consider the possibility that Sandbuttsky is a monster, and really cannot help himself? Perhaps he is so fucked up and KNOWS it....ever think he was trying to get caught? After all, if I was going to rape a 10 yr old boy and I had sound mind about me, I sure as hell wouldn't do it in bright lit public showers of a big name football program where there was bound to be foot traffic 8 feet away! I would have went to a darkened office. Yeah, writing that was difficult, but I hope you get my point.

Dude...regardless...sick or not sick...he needs to go to jail FOREVER...Hell I even advocate the death penalty in this case...he set up his "charity" to gain access to these poor children...and its coming out he passed the kids around to the sick fucks who contributed. If he could not "help" himself he wouldn't have set up the charity...he would have been staking out playground. He set up a criminal enterprise, disguised as a charity to exploit those kids, that isn't a sign of a being mental ill, it's a sign of being a completely amoral individual out for their own gratification.

You can't have it both ways here, and you know it. You talk about "Christian" morals and berate SG for wanting someone to pay the ultimate price for his destruction of these kids lives , and yet in the same thought look for ways to diminish his culpability.

Real fucking nice...he's suddenly is a victim in your eyes.

Chrome Dome, chill, and read on...

I was mentioning the fact she said "fry them ALL," "all" being the point of contention. Sanbuttsky is going to face the music, we can be assured of that. He is the worst guy ever, worse than Osama, Saddam or Orenthal to be sure.

In earlier posts, I was not saying Sandusky was a victim at all- just pointing out that he may have had some serious issues within his life that helped him create/commit these horrific acts, that's all. In response to SG's "all" comment, I was speaking of Paterno especially, and possibility Spanier as well.

[Ehwmatt]

I admired Sandusky.
Never looked into his BG to see what might have caused this behavior though?

Good lord. Here we go with the he must have been abused as a child therefore he abuses other excuse. Give me a break. There are millions of adults who suffered horrific abuse who go on to never harm a fly. Here's a reason for you. What about some people are just out for their desserts and could care less about the cost to others. Fry all of them. They are all culpable.

Oh how fucking Christian of you. You far leaning whacko Christians tend to put your ideals and thoughts above all the rest of others in society. Red13 was exactly right in wondering if Sandbuttsky's past was tarnished with exploitation and violation. There IS a pattern to repeated behaviour in people's lives and the facts bear that out. Get off your Goddamned high horse and "think" for a minute. You ever consider the possibility that Sandbuttsky is a monster, and really cannot help himself? Perhaps he is so fucked up and KNOWS it....ever think he was trying to get caught? After all, if I was going to rape a 10 yr old boy and I had sound mind about me, I sure as hell wouldn't do it in bright lit public showers of a big name football program where there was bound to be foot traffic 8 feet away! I would have went to a darkened office. Yeah, writing that was difficult, but I hope you get my point.

Dude...regardless...sick or not sick...he needs to go to jail FOREVER...Hell I even advocate the death penalty in this case...he set up his "charity" to gain access to these poor children...and its coming out he passed the kids around to the sick fucks who contributed. If he could not "help" himself he wouldn't have set up the charity...he would have been staking out playground. He set up a criminal enterprise, disguised as a charity to exploit those kids, that isn't a sign of a being mental ill, it's a sign of being a completely amoral individual out for their own gratification.

You can't have it both ways here, and you know it. You talk about "Christian" morals and berate SG for wanting someone to pay the ultimate price for his destruction of these kids lives , and yet in the same thought look for ways to diminish his culpability.

Real fucking nice...he's suddenly is a victim in your eyes.

That's what I've been telling people. This isn't a guy who actively fought these urges, however irrepressible they might be as a matter of science/fucked up psychology/biology/chemistry. This is a guy who knew exactly what he was doing. He methodically set up a system, chose his prey, and used all the trappings of his authority to victimize and rape kids in the most chillingly efficient way possible.

[conversationpc]

What I still don't get is why the person who caught Sandusky blasting the little kid didn't thrash that guy's ass within an inch of his life. I can't imagine catching someone doing something like that and not wanting to get that kid the hell out of harm's way. Or am I missing something?

[Rick]

What I still don't get is why the person who caught Sandusky blasting the little kid didn't thrash that guy's ass within an inch of his life. I can't imagine catching someone doing something like that and not wanting to get that kid the hell out of harm's way. Or am I missing something?

I don't get it either. If I saw someone hurting a kid, I would put a stop to it right then and there.

[Rockindeano]

What I still don't get is why the person who caught Sandusky blasting the little kid didn't thrash that guy's ass within an inch of his life. I can't imagine catching someone doing something like that and not wanting to get that kid the hell out of harm's way. Or am I missing something?

I don't get it either. If I saw someone hurting a kid, I would put a stop to it right then and there.

You two have hit the nail on the head as to why everyone involved is culpable- Like the movie, "A Few Good Men" where the two privates are not criminally prosecuted, but they are discharged- and the one sheepish private asks, "why? I don't understand, we did nothing wrong." And the other private says, "we did do something wrong. We didn't fight for the ones who can't defend themselves."

Penn State is over. They are going to have change their look, uniform color, slogans, everything. Maybe even tear down some buildings. This is Youngstown State all over again.

[Rick]

What I still don't get is why the person who caught Sandusky blasting the little kid didn't thrash that guy's ass within an inch of his life. I can't imagine catching someone doing something like that and not wanting to get that kid the hell out of harm's way. Or am I missing something?

I don't get it either. If I saw someone hurting a kid, I would put a stop to it right then and there.

You two have hit the nail on the head as to why everyone involved is culpable- Like the movie, "A Few Good Men" where the two privates are not criminally prosecuted, but they are discharged- and the one sheepish private asks, "why? I don't understand, we did nothing wrong." And the other private says, "we did do something wrong. We didn't fight for the ones who can't defend themselves."

Penn State is over. They are going to have change their look, uniform color, slogans, everything. Maybe even tear down some buildings. This is Youngstown State all over again.

Great quote from a great movie.

Very sad to see a good school and Paterno's name tarnished like that.

[Seven Wishes2]

Why did Paterno get fired for reporting second-hand information to the AD, but the guy who saw the pedophile raping the boy but only went to his head coach get the HEAD COACHING JOB? Huh?

[Don]

Why did Paterno get fired for reporting second-hand information to the AD, but the guy who saw the pedophile raping the boy but only went to his head coach get the HEAD COACHING JOB? Huh?

McQueary did not get the head coach job. As it stands now, he won't even be on the field this Saturday even IF he still has his receivers coaching job.

[scarygirl]

Why did Paterno get fired for reporting second-hand information to the AD, but the guy who saw the pedophile raping the boy but only went to his head coach get the HEAD COACHING JOB? Huh?

It doesn't matter if it was second hand information. He had a moral obligation to report this to the police as it was a criminal matter. The first guy passed the buck and so on. It is too bad that the right thing wasn't done in the first place. A lot of lives could have been saved.

[MCM]

Hey, get this shit...Ray Gricar, the guy who disappeared.....well he had a brother named Roy...seems Roy lived right up the road from me in West Chester, Ohio. He disappeared from his home in May 1996. His body was found a week later in the Great Miami River; authorities ruled his death a suicide.




cue twlight zone theme.....

Ray was Cleveland-born and raised. As I said when you first brought this up, I've followed Ray's case for a couple years through a Cleveland crime journalist who blogs and writes about mysterious/unsolved cold cases. Is 96 significant? Were there any allegations then? If anything, this makes it more likely Gricar killed himself or disappeared of his own volition because this type of shit tends to run in families.

I think the reason the missing lawyer is being brought into this mess is that there were previous allegations (prior to 98) He was the one that determined, or was coerced into not pressing charges at that time. This info about the previous allegations and the connection to the missing guy are, of course, rumor but apparently the timeline fits. Rumor and speculation but where there's smoke there is fire.

[Rockindeano]

Cute, real fuckin cute. Barry, "I break every rule known to the NCAA and don't give a flyin fuck," Switzer, admonishing a great man in Joe Paterno? Paterno should have scheduled that shit program in Norman and kicked their ass on national tv yearly, but alas he couldn't and he knew it- Pa never had the athletes these other "schools" do, like Oklahoma, USC, Miami and Ohio State. Paterno's kids went to Penn State for an education, a nuturing of life as they headed into adulthood. JoePa was there, he was dad away from a students' home. Barry, the biggest scumbag in college sports, calling out the single most character guy in sports, is fucking laughable.

[Rick]

Cute, real fuckin cute. Barry, "I break every rule known to the NCAA and don't give a flyin fuck," Switzer, admonishing a great man in Joe Paterno? Paterno should have scheduled that shit program in Norman and kicked their ass on national tv yearly, but alas he couldn't and he knew it- Pa never had the athletes these other "schools" do, like Oklahoma, USC, Miami and Ohio State. Paterno's kids went to Penn State for an education, a nuturing of life as they headed into adulthood. JoePa was there, he was dad away from a students' home. Barry, the biggest scumbag in college sports, calling out the single most character guy in sports, is fucking laughable.

,

Dude, did Switzer hide butt fucking of a kid? Come on!

No, but he was in trouble on more than one occasion for misconduct with students. As big of an OU fan as I am, I've never been able to stand Switzer. Then he came to the Cowboys, and I thought fuck me to tears, I'll never get away from this asshole. I loved it when he forgot he had a hand gun and tried to go through security at DFW.

[scarygirl]

I just read the grand jury testimony. Awful, just awful. There is no excuse. None. And the worst part is they will all lawyer up and tear these poor kids limb from limb. It is what they do. It is the cheap way out of murder.

[slucero]

“I'll tell you how it happens — it's the American sports phenomenon,” Switzer said. “I've seen it happen all my life; we've made coaches and players and athletes more than what we are. It's what happens in American sports. Because of that, they've gotten away with more than they should have.

Word.

[Jana]

The Grand Jury report made me sick. The number, in reality, is much, much higher than eight.