2011-2012 NFL Season Thread

[Ehwmatt]

Alex Smith is fucking DREADFUL. This guy misses more wide open guys than I've ever seen. Pittsburgh isn't covering anyone, and this guy simply can't get the ball to where it needs to go!

Yep. He's clearly not the answer for the 49ers, but I don't think that surprises anyone.

Watching him tonight has helped me conclude what I've been trying not to jump too quickly to before: Colt McCoy is never gonna be anything more than a serviceable backup. I've been making a lot of excuses and "maybes" concerning the lack of talent, our terrible line etc., but he just doesn't have it. Good kid. Wanted him to succeed. I think he's done here though. I think the Browns will take RG3. Hopefully we don't ruin him like we ruin every other QB.

[Enigma869]

Hopefully we don't ruin him like we ruin every other QB.

Bernie had a good run in Cleveland until Belichick decided to bench him in favor of Testaverde. That made Belichick public enemy number one in Cleveland for life.

[Ehwmatt]

Hopefully we don't ruin him like we ruin every other QB.

Bernie had a good run in Cleveland until Belichick decided to bench him in favor of Testaverde. That made Belichick public enemy number one in Cleveland for life.

Yup. I was very young then, but even I still remember the outrage and animus. We haven't had a QB since Bernie. It's unbelievable.

Incidentally, I've met Bernie several times. He's had some hard luck in the last couple of years, but he really couldn't be a nicer guy.

[slucero]

Ben looks horrible out there... gimpy as hell....

[Ehwmatt]

I really don't get the decision to have Ben play tonight. I get the urgency to get ahead of the Ravens. But, we all know the Steelers are one of those weird teams that really rely on Ben, but somehow can win without him at a better clip than most teams with great QBs can. I think Ben coming out tonight and playing hurt them. Good. Fuck 'em!

[YoungJRNY]

Weird and bizarre night all-together. As soon as that power-outage occurred I didn't have a good feeling all night. Time to get healthy. Our health is in serious jeopardy right now. Only thing holding us back. -4 on the turnover ratio tonight, a injury plagued team that took Woodley once again and field position that averaged at our own 15 yard line. Not going to win many games with that result. This team must get healthy. That's our only option right now, we've clinched a playoff and I'd like to see a healthy team take the field for what it's worth.

[Enigma869]

It's going to be an interesting two weeks. I am now completely convinced that ANY team in the AFC could win the Super Bowl. These are all VERY flawed teams. I have always felt that if Brady wins another Super Bowl, there won't even be a conversation about the best QB ever. Right now, he's in the conversation. If he wins (especially with this team), even the Brady haters won't have a thing to say. This is the first time in my life that I have ever seen an NFL with the absolute worse defense in the league sitting with an 11-3 record. It's astonishing, actually. If Brady has a bad game in the playoffs, this team simply can't win. If Brady is on his game, there isn't a team in the AFC who has any chance at all of scoring enough points (even with the Patriots horrific defense) to keep up with their offense. At this point, I still don't care about seeds (as long as it's one or two) or home field. It's all about getting that first round bye to make the road to the big game a whole lot shorter.

[Ehwmatt]

It's going to be an interesting two weeks. I am now completely convinced that ANY team in the AFC could win the Super Bowl. These are all VERY flawed teams. I have always felt that if Brady wins another Super Bowl, there won't even be a conversation about the best QB ever. Right now, he's in the conversation. If he wins (especially with this team), even the Brady haters won't have a thing to say. This is the first time in my life that I have ever seen an NFL with the absolute worse defense in the league sitting with an 11-3 record. It's astonishing, actually. If Brady has a bad game in the playoffs, this team simply can't win. If Brady is on his game, there isn't a team in the AFC who has any chance at all of scoring enough points (even with the Patriots horrific defense) to keep up with their offense. At this point, I still don't care about seeds (as long as it's one or two) or home field. It's all about getting that first round bye to make the road to the big game a whole lot shorter.

One obvious qualification to your "home field is meaningless" thesis: you gotta believe home field advantage helps dome teams. Look at the Saints. They have struggled in just about every outdoor game they've played this year.

[Enigma869]

One obvious qualification to your "home field is meaningless" thesis: you gotta believe home field advantage helps dome teams. Look at the Saints. They have struggled in just about every outdoor game they've played this year.

You're absolutely right Matt. I definitely should have put that qualifier in. I'm not someone who has ever really taken dome teams that seriously when it comes to the playoffs. The weather is always the great equalizer. I've always believed the weather is a FAR bigger factor than fans like to believe they are. It's not just a coincidence that only three dome teams have ever won a Super Bowl. I think for the teams who play outside, home field is a nice thing to have, but I'm not sure it really means much, depending on the tone of the game. I know that it hasn't helped the Patriots the last two years they had home field advantage in the playoffs.

[Seven Wishes2]

It'll come down to these factors.

Baltimore - can Flaccid be better than mediocre when it counts most? If so, they're probably the favorites in the AFC.
Pittsburgh - comes down to Big Ben and Harrison. If they're both on, they're a little better than Baltimore.
New England - will need to continue to get big turnovers in the playoffs if they're going to go anywhere. You can't just "outscore" the Ravens and Steelers.

Green Bay and New Orleans will duke it out in the NFC.

No other teams in either conference have a chance in hell, including the Forty Whiners, who aren't going anywhere in the playoffs with Smith.

[Enigma869]

Baltimore - can Flaccid be better than mediocre when it counts most? If so, they're probably the favorites in the AFC.

I felt that way several weeks ago. Not so sure I feel that way about Baltimore any longer.

Pittsburgh - comes down to Big Ben and Harrison. If they're both on, they're a little better than Baltimore.

Not so sure about that either. Certainly based on regular season results, Baltimore is the better team, even though I would take Roethlisberger all day long over Flacco.

New England - will need to continue to get big turnovers in the playoffs if they're going to go anywhere. You can't just "outscore" the Ravens and Steelers.

On the contrary. The reality is that teams like Baltimore and Pittsburgh really aren't that difficult to outscore. Neither team scores that many points. Pittsburgh is in the bottom third of the league in points scored, and Baltimore is the middle of the pack in points scored. Both have had points scored on them in the regular season and both teams have been blown out during the regular season, so it's not impossible to score on them. Now, they're obviously both good defensive teams. That said, I don't think either of those teams can win a post season game with scores in the 30's, so it will all come down to what kind of game it is and if their defense shows up to play.

Green Bay and New Orleans will duke it out in the NFC. No other teams in either conference have a chance in hell, including the Forty Whiners, who aren't going anywhere in the playoffs with Smith.

While I don't disagree with you, you're contradicting yourself. The 49'ers are identical to the Ravens. Both teams have very good defenses with marginal NFL QB's. I still don't see anyone beating the Packers in Green Bay in January....especially a dome team.

[YoungJRNY]

The AFC is hurting all over the place. Not one team is a shoe in. Again, it'll come down to Baltimore, New England, Pittsburgh. Now with both the Ravens and Steelers losing, it looks like New England will get that #1 seed in the AFC so the road will more than likely go through Foxborough, where the Pats are 0-2 the past two seasons. In every AFC team, there's a gigantic hole that nobody can predict. The NFC will come down to Packers, Saints, & Falcons. 49'ers don't have the offense to keep up with any of those teams.

[Enigma869]

The AFC is hurting all over the place. Not one team is a shoe in. Again, it'll come down to Baltimore, New England, Pittsburgh. Now with both the Ravens and Steelers losing, it looks like New England will get that #1 seed in the AFC so the road will more than likely go through Foxborough, where the Pats are 0-2 the past two seasons. In every AFC team, there's a gigantic hole that nobody can predict. The NFC will come down to Packers, Saints, & Falcons. 49'ers don't have the offense to keep up with any of those teams.

How fucking boring is this...I actually agree with you 100%. I honestly have no idea (beyond Green Bay) who the "favorite" is. It really depends on which week you're asking me the question. Four weeks ago, I was convinced that Baltimore was the best team in the AFC. Two weeks ago, I was convinced Pittsburgh was the best team in the AFC, and this week, I'm convinced it's New England. I can honestly say that none of those teams should be favored over any of the other teams. It's really that even, and the strengths of the teams are different. Even though Green Bay just lost to a bad Kansas City team, I would still be very surprised if they lost in the playoffs in Green Bay. It is going to be very tough for another NFC team to win in those conditions.

[Frontiers65]

It will be a Patriots ,Packers SB.

[AR]

It will be a Patriots ,Packers SB.

It's more wide open than that. Although that is the matchup the media wants for sure.

There are 4 to 6 teams with a legit shot.

[Enigma869]

It's more wide open than that. Although that is the matchup the media wants for sure.

There are 4 to 6 teams with a legit shot.

You're painting with way too broad of a brush. There are MANY in the media who loathe the Patriots and have zero interest in seeing them in the Super Bowl. Ask Tom Jackson how he feels about Belichick and the Patriots. I do agree with your larger point that it really is wide open in the AFC. No real favorites in my mind. I wouldn't be stunned to see Baltimore lose to the Bengals, the Patriots lose to Miami and Pittsburgh rest Ben and maybe tank a game. It should be an interesting January.

[AR]

It's more wide open than that. Although that is the matchup the media wants for sure.

There are 4 to 6 teams with a legit shot.

You're painting with way too broad of a brush. There are MANY in the media who loathe the Patriots and have zero interest in seeing them in the Super Bowl. Ask Tom Jackson how he feels about Belichick and the Patriots. I do agree with your larger point that it really is wide open in the AFC. No real favorites in my mind. I wouldn't be stunned to see Baltimore lose to the Bengals, the Patriots lose to Miami and Pittsburgh rest Ben and maybe tank a game. It should be an interesting January.

Anything can happen in those games. No question about it.

[AR]

My AFC assessment.

Patriots = most battle tested. I'm making them the favorite. Defense is their issue though

Ravens = they need some home playoff games. Not playing well on the road these days. Wouldn't survive with the number 5 seed. At #2 they have a shot. Secondary is now a potential problem. Not as worried about Flacco as most.

Steelers = also battle tested. A lot of this holds on how healthy Rothlisberger is. He is a money QB. He can get them there, but needs to be healthy.

NFC:

Green Bay is still the class, but they are beatable.

49ers still hanging around. Need a QB though

[Enigma869]

Not as worried about Flacco as most.


49ers still hanging around. Need a QB though

Interesting contradiction. You're not worried about Flacco, but San Francisco needs a QB? You do know that Alex Smith has only one less TD than Flacco on the season and that Flacco has thrown for more than twice as many interceptions, right? The only QB's in the entire league who are less accurate than Flacco are: Colt McCoy, Mark Sanchez, Christian Ponder, Curtis Painter, Sam Bradford, Blaine Gabbert, and Touchdown Jesus. Not exactly a murderer's row of NFL QB's.

Just so I'm clear...I'm not suggesting that you're not correct about San Francisco needing a QB. My point is that you could make a good argument that they have a better QB than Baltimore has.

[AR]

Not as worried about Flacco as most.


49ers still hanging around. Need a QB though

Interesting contradiction. You're not worried about Flacco, but San Francisco needs a QB? You do know that Alex Smith has only one less TD than Flacco on the season and that Flacco has thrown for more than twice as many interceptions, right? The only QB's in the entire league who are less accurate than Flacco are: Colt McCoy, Mark Sanchez, Christian Ponder, Curtis Painter, Sam Bradford, Blaine Gabbert, and Touchdown Jesus. Not exactly a murderer's row of NFL QB's.

Just so I'm clear...I'm not suggesting that you're not correct about San Francisco needing a QB. My point is that you could make a good argument that they have a better QB than Baltimore has.

Flacco has taken the Ravens to the playoffs how many times now? Compare that to Alex Smith. Everyone in the media is giving Jesus Tebow a pass, while bashing Flacco who HAS won playoff games including in New England.

I'm not a huge Flacco fan, but I did watch my hometown team win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer at QB. When the Ravens falter, it is more than just Flacco. They are a perplexing team that could go one and out in the playoffs or win it all. I have no idea where they will go, but they have as good a shot as anyone.

[Enigma869]

Flacco has taken the Ravens to the playoffs how many times now? Compare that to Alex Smith. Everyone in the media is giving Jesus Tebow a pass, while bashing Flacco who HAS won playoff games including in New England.

I'm not a huge Flacco fan, but I did watch my hometown team win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer at QB. When the Ravens falter, it is more than just Flacco. They are a perplexing team that could go one and out in the playoffs or win it all. I have no idea where they will go, but they have as good a shot as anyone.

It doesn't change the fact that the team you're claiming needs a QB has a QB with better numbers than the team you say has no worries at QB. As for Flacco taking the Ravens to the playoffs, we'll agree to disagree. He's about as responsible for those playoff runs as Trent Dilfer (who incidentally, is the one and only QB in the history of the NFL to win a Super Bowl and then immediately get cut by his team) is for the Ravens winning their one Super Bowl. The reality is that Alex Smith's situation really isn't any different than Flacco's. San Francisco finally has a very good defense (better than Baltimore's) and Smith can be that proverbial "game manager" when a defense is that good. Flacco's team wins because of the good defense (that isn't nearly as good as it used to be). He's a very marginal NFL QB who will never be anything more than he is.

[AR]

Flacco has taken the Ravens to the playoffs how many times now? Compare that to Alex Smith. Everyone in the media is giving Jesus Tebow a pass, while bashing Flacco who HAS won playoff games including in New England.

I'm not a huge Flacco fan, but I did watch my hometown team win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer at QB. When the Ravens falter, it is more than just Flacco. They are a perplexing team that could go one and out in the playoffs or win it all. I have no idea where they will go, but they have as good a shot as anyone.

It doesn't change the fact that the team you're claiming needs a QB has a QB with better numbers than the team you say has no worries at QB. As for Flacco taking the Ravens to the playoffs, we'll agree to disagree. He's about as responsible for those playoff runs as Trent Dilfer (who incidentally, is the one and only QB in the history of the NFL to win a Super Bowl and then immediately get cut by his team) is for the Ravens winning their one Super Bowl. The reality is that Alex Smith's situation really isn't any different than Flacco's. San Francisco finally has a very good defense (better than Baltimore's) and Smith can be that proverbial "game manager" when a defense is that good. Flacco's team wins because of the good defense (that isn't nearly as good as it used to be). He's a very marginal NFL QB who will never be anything more than he is.

Ravens have been there before though with Flacco and have advanced. Alex Smith has done nothing regardless of any stats.

The Ravens offense has actually shown some promise this season at times, just not lately. Again, not defending Flacco really, but when Alex Smith gets the 49ers a playoff win, then we can debate that. It's not a real comparison.

[AR]

Keep this in mind as well as we discuss this. I had to watch Kyle Boller for how many years?

Flacco looks like Joe Montana compared to that.

[YoungJRNY]

AR, what you just said is the EXACT reason why I defend Roethlisberger any chance I get. I've watched a ton of Steelers football since I can remember and the style Ben has brought to Pittsburgh is something the franchise has never seen since Bradshaw: productivity at the QB position.

Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomczak, Jim Miller, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox. The Steelers have had some GREAT teams in the 90's and early 2000's that went to absolute excrement because of very below average performances at quarterback. The Steelers always had a run game (Barry Foster, Eric Pegram, Bam Morris, Jerome Bettis, etc) and great defense's (Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Levon Kirkland, Kevin Greene, etc) yet, Cowher always lacked that QB to come in and carry the team in clutch-like situations.

Even though I trust Flacco just as much as I would Tony Romo in bigtime moments (which isn't much at all) atleast Flacco gives Baltimore hope on offense for what it's worth when compared to the likes of Elvis Grbac and Kyle Boller.

[AR]

AR, what you just said is the EXACT reason why I defend Roethlisberger any chance I get. I've watched a ton of Steelers football since I can remember and the style Ben has brought to Pittsburgh is something the franchise has never seen since Bradshaw: productivity at the QB position.

Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomczak, Jim Miller, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox. The Steelers have had some GREAT teams in the 90's and early 2000's that went to absolute excrement because of very below average performances at quarterback. The Steelers always had a run game (Barry Foster, Eric Pegram, Bam Morris, Jerome Bettis, etc) and great defense's (Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Levon Kirkland, Kevin Greene, etc) yet, Cowher always lacked that QB to come in and carry the team in clutch-like situations.

Even though I trust Flacco just as much as I would Tony Romo in bigtime moments (which isn't much at all) atleast Flacco gives Baltimore hope on offense for what it's worth when compared to the likes of Elvis Grbac and Kyle Boller.

Much in common where that is concerned.

As for last night, they had to start Ben. Hard to say as they game went forward if they should go to Batch, but the only reason to have done that would be Ben's health going forward. I'm not qualified to make that decision and Mike Tomlin is.

Lets enjoy the last few weeks and see how it all plays out.

[YoungJRNY]

AR, what you just said is the EXACT reason why I defend Roethlisberger any chance I get. I've watched a ton of Steelers football since I can remember and the style Ben has brought to Pittsburgh is something the franchise has never seen since Bradshaw: productivity at the QB position.

Neil O'Donnell, Mike Tomczak, Jim Miller, Kordell Stewart, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox. The Steelers have had some GREAT teams in the 90's and early 2000's that went to absolute excrement because of very below average performances at quarterback. The Steelers always had a run game (Barry Foster, Eric Pegram, Bam Morris, Jerome Bettis, etc) and great defense's (Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Levon Kirkland, Kevin Greene, etc) yet, Cowher always lacked that QB to come in and carry the team in clutch-like situations.

Even though I trust Flacco just as much as I would Tony Romo in bigtime moments (which isn't much at all) atleast Flacco gives Baltimore hope on offense for what it's worth when compared to the likes of Elvis Grbac and Kyle Boller.

Much in common where that is concerned.

As for last night, they had to start Ben. Hard to say as they game went forward if they should go to Batch, but the only reason to have done that would be Ben's health going forward. I'm not qualified to make that decision and Mike Tomlin is.

Lets enjoy the last few weeks and see how it all plays out.

Givin' the circumstance of the situation (Baltimore losing) the Steelers had no choice but to go all in and battle with their best players and lineup. A hurt Roethlisberger gave them the best option to win. In hindsight, it's obviously easy to say they shouldn't have started Ben because of turnovers, but he actually played better than I initially thought on a high ankle sprain. Pittsburgh moved the ball quite well on offense at times but couldn't finish, a common problem with even a healthy Roethlisberger in the lineup. Even after those two turnovers by Ben in the first half, it was still only a 6-3 ball-game at one point. The 9'ers just played a sound football game while Pittsburgh played their worst game since week 1 in ALL phases of the game (including coaching.)

These last few weeks should be fun.

[Enigma869]

By the way Travis, if the season ended right now, Pittsburgh would be playing Touchdown Jesus in the first round, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. Steelers by 21!

[YoungJRNY]

By the way Travis, if the season ended right now, Pittsburgh would be playing Touchdown Jesus in the first round, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. Steelers by 21!

All of a sudden, I'm worried. The Steelers are just reeling with injuries now. I understand the injuries mount up for all teams, but Pittsburgh has them at their key and elite positions and can't seem to hold the team together at the moment. Woodley is constantly aggravating that hamstring, Harrison will probably be kicked out of the league by Week 17, Pouncey, our only good lineman on an already bad line, hurt the same ankle he did for the Super Bowl last season with a high ankle sprain and of course, Ben is now going to have to play on that high ankle sprain the rest of the season since it takes 2-3 weeks to heal with no activity. When a time to where health is key, the Steelers are going in the opposite direction. Plus, they are an absolute horrid road team. If they keep playing up and down, I can maybe see them getting into the divisional round and bailing out if we go into New England or Baltimore banged up.

[Enigma869]

All of a sudden, I'm worried. The Steelers are just reeling with injuries now. I understand the injuries mount up for all teams, but Pittsburgh has them at their key and elite positions and can't seem to hold the team together at the moment. Woodley is constantly aggravating that hamstring, Harrison will probably be kicked out of the league by Week 17, Pouncey, our only good lineman on an already bad line, hurt the same ankle he did for the Super Bowl last season with a high ankle sprain and of course, Ben is now going to have to play on that high ankle sprain the rest of the season since it takes 2-3 weeks to heal with no activity. When a time to where health is key, the Steelers are going in the opposite direction. Plus, they are an absolute horrid road team. If they keep playing up and down, I can maybe see them getting into the divisional round and bailing out if we go into New England or Baltimore banged up.

Zero excuses. You only think Pittsburgh is more injured than every other team. They're not! Hell, Houston is missing their top three players, and is down to their third string QB, and still has a record as good as the Steelers. Pat Chung (the only good player in the Patriots secondary) hasn't played in a month, and their only pass rusher just went down for the season. There isn't a team in the NFL who doesn't have a whole lot of guys really banged up at this point in the season.

[YoungJRNY]

All of a sudden, I'm worried. The Steelers are just reeling with injuries now. I understand the injuries mount up for all teams, but Pittsburgh has them at their key and elite positions and can't seem to hold the team together at the moment. Woodley is constantly aggravating that hamstring, Harrison will probably be kicked out of the league by Week 17, Pouncey, our only good lineman on an already bad line, hurt the same ankle he did for the Super Bowl last season with a high ankle sprain and of course, Ben is now going to have to play on that high ankle sprain the rest of the season since it takes 2-3 weeks to heal with no activity. When a time to where health is key, the Steelers are going in the opposite direction. Plus, they are an absolute horrid road team. If they keep playing up and down, I can maybe see them getting into the divisional round and bailing out if we go into New England or Baltimore banged up.

Zero excuses. You only think Pittsburgh is more injured than every other team. They're not! Hell, Houston is missing their top three players, and is down to their third string QB, and still has a record as good as the Steelers. Pat Chung (the only good player in the Patriots secondary) hasn't played in a month, and their only pass rusher just went down for the season. There isn't a team in the NFL who doesn't have a whole lot of guys really banged up at this point in the season.

Teams like the Patriots still have their best players healthy on the field that ultimately make up their entire team on how they've been winning football games all season. At this stage, Tom Brady is healthy, Wes Welker is healthy and those two stud tight ends are healthy. That Patriots defense isn't going to be winning the Pats football games with Pat Chung in the lineup. It's all about being healthy in the playoffs and the Steelers are really limping with their two best players on offense that touch's the ball every play with Pouncey and Ben. It'll be tough to enter the playoffs as banged up as the Steelers are right now, especially on the road. Atleast Houston has Arian Foster, a healthy offensive line and a potential home game to get ready for (not to mention one of the best defense's in the league.)

No excuses, just worrisome for Steelers fans to see their top dawg barely able to walk because the potential results is what happened Monday Night against good football teams.