President Barack Obama - Term 1 and 2 Thread

[Eric]

- Sotomayor is unqualified and quite possibly a bigot and has only got where she has because of Affirmative Action

You're the bigot, and have already been exposed on here passing off Sotomayor's quotes out of context.
The "wise Latina woman" line is 100% accurate.
You don't think a black justice or, say, an Indian justice, would have reached better decisions when it came to Plessy v. Ferguson or The Marshall Trilogy?

Nothing out of context....and she was dead wrong on the firefighter case. Affirmative action is racism....and this country is in the shit until you guilty libs realize this. Everyone is equal, minorities don't need help from the generous white liberal looking down on them.

[The_Noble_Cause]

This is true, however, if we faced another similar situation the same would happen for Obama. If we got hit again, his speech would be listened to without a peep in my home, and his picture would be up on my wall immediately. Thats how America is, we rally behind that stuff.

I don't believe you.
We are in another crisis RIGHT NOW, with ramifications possibly far more reaching than 9-11.
You're not rallying behind anything.
You're shamelessly blaming Obama for the rising unemployment.
Even when the Somali pirates incident happened the Cons on this forum were quick to blame Obama for it.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Nothing out of context....and she was dead wrong on the firefighter case.

She claims she was following precedent, which is the exact opposite of being an activist judge.

Affirmative action is racism....and this country is in the shit until you guilty libs realize this. Everyone is equal, minorities don't need help from the generous white liberal looking down on them.

Then post the whole quote.
The woman was appointed by Bush I, she is not a radical by any stretch.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Not biased to you, they say what you want to hear.

This is no different than if Fox News did a story featuring CEO's that think Obama is leading us straight to hell.

Point is the story means nothing right now.

Right, and like Colbert likes to quip, "truth has a famous liberal bias" too.
FOX News is run by Rush Limbaugh's former producer, this is the equivalent of James Carville running CNN.
If you can provide me the name of the dope smoking marxist behind the Buisness Week article Deano provided, I'd love to see it.

[Eric]

This is true, however, if we faced another similar situation the same would happen for Obama. If we got hit again, his speech would be listened to without a peep in my home, and his picture would be up on my wall immediately. Thats how America is, we rally behind that stuff.

I don't believe you.
We are in another crisis RIGHT NOW, with ramifications possibly far more reaching than 9-11.
You're not rallying behind anything.
You're shamelessly blaming Obama for the rising unemployment.
Even when the Somali pirates incident happened the Cons on this forum were quick to blame Obama for it.

BULLSHIT! I praised Obama for that...as I have at least 3 other times in this thread for things he deserved Kudos for. And here's another: The NASA funding thing...I like it

And a recession aint Armegeddon...but nice try. You rally behind a leader when the cause is common, none of the BS he's pulling has a common cause. Its for his socialist agenda he talked about for the 5 years prior and then fooled you folks into believing he was a centrist...OR...you are a socialist and love it...but either way it aint a common cause.

Blaming Obama for unemployment....not exactly....pointing out that its gone up 20% since he's taken office to counterpoint the ridiculous claim he's turning around the country is just good logic.

[Eric]

Right, and like Colbert likes to quipt.

You clownshoes get your news from the late night comedy shows....thats why Obama got voted into office.

[Rockindeano]

Right, and like Colbert likes to quipt.

You clownshoes get your news from the late night comedy shows....thats why Obama got voted into office.

LOL.

Obama got voted into office per default. It wouldn't have mattered if Hillary was at the top of the ticket, or even Biden. The GOP messed this place up so well, that anybody with a D next to their name was going to win.

Nice try though Eric. Play again soon.

[The_Noble_Cause]

And a recession aint Armegeddon...but nice try.

A global economic meltdown is far worse than an attack that could have been thwarted with cockpit door locks!
NO economist is saying this is a garden variety V-shaped economic dip.
Not one.

You rally behind a leader when the cause is common, none of the BS he's pulling has a common cause.

I see.
But when Bush weakened USDA regulations to allow shit in our meat, that was for the common good, right?
From reigning in the too-big-too-fail colossuses, to the credit cards, to tackling healthcare, Obama is leading for the common good.

Its for his socialist agenda he talked about for the 5 years prior and then fooled you folks into believing he was a centrist...

For the most part, Obama is governing as a centrist.
He weakened his own stimulus with tax cuts, at the expense of the economy, to bring more GOP votes around.
50 years from now, the GOP will probably retroactively claim him as one of their own, as they have tried with JFK.

OR...you are a socialist and love it...but either way it aint a common cause.

His economic team are all Goldman-Sachs cronies.
This is lemon socialism aka corporate welfare - just throwing money at big buisness.
AIG paying out taxpayer subsidized bonuses to their executives does not put power in the hands of the proletariat unwashed.

[Eric]

A global economic meltdown is far worse than an attack that could have been thwarted with cockpit door locks!

In the days after 9-11 we didn't know what was going to happen. We just wanted to feel safe...thats a unifying cause.

But when Bush weakened USDA regulations to allow shit in our meat, that was for the common good, right?
From reigning in the too-big-too-fail colossuses, to the credit cards, to tackling healthcare, Obama is leading for the common good.

I did not rally behind everything W did. And Tackling health care!?...give me a fucking break. Fix the problems, don't push your agenda on us.

For the most part, Obama is governing as a centrist.

SAY WHAT!? HOW!? Ignoring anything half the country or the GOP congress has to say? Moving this country into a direction that it isn't comfortable with?

[RossValoryRocks]

For once I am just enjoying watching all you people pick a side and thrash each other.

It's entertaining to say the least.

I think we all need to realize that what happens inside the boundries of the District of Columbia is in no way to the benefit of any of us.

They are ALL bums, the lot of them. Doesn't matter if they have a D, R, S, C, I or whatever next to their name.

They only thing they crave is power and control to achieve that they will do whatever is popular at the moment. Raise taxes on the rich, lower taxes, spend tax money on their select special interest groups so they can get re-elected, provide, FORCE healthcare on everyone (even though the Fed's can't even make the current Public Healthcare system - Medicare - work), etc etc etc. It's all a ruse for us to give up our personal sovereignty and the sheeple on both sides will follow right along.

The Federal, state and local governments have forgotten they are supposed to be serving "We the People", not the other way around.

And all of us have just let it go. I hear lots of talk about the Founding Fathers, from both sides, and I think the most important thing that is missed, by both sides is that they ALL had a healthy fear of an overly strong Federal Government.

‘We give you a Republic; now see if you can keep it.’ — Ben Franklin

Well we are long past that road. We allow dynasties (Bush, Kennedy, Clinton -sort of) to lead. We ahve LOST our Republic in the name of ease and sloth and jealousy over whom has more than who.

And it is BOTH sides, Conservative and Liberal alike that lead us to this point.

[Eric]

The woman was appointed by Bush I, she is not a radical by any stretch.

Let me add..I'm glad you mentioned this. Bush had the most diverse picks of any President ever. He doesn't get credit for this at all.

[The_Noble_Cause]

In the days after 9-11 we didn't know what was going to happen. We just wanted to feel safe...thats a unifying cause.

So is another great depression.

And Tackling health care!?...give me a fucking break. Fix the problems, don't push your agenda on us.

Since when is a President not allowed to carry out his agenda in the first 100 days?
Every progressive from Teddy Roosevelt to FDR to Truman to Clinton have tried to get universal healthcare passed.
Now its Obama's turn.

SAY WHAT!? HOW!? Ignoring anything half the country or the GOP congress has to say?

From what I've read, most people want a public option.
Obama has reached across the aisle.
What has he got in return?
House members supporting investigations into his birth, and the RNC passing resolutions renaming his party The Socialists.
Fuck you guys.

Moving this country into a direction that it isn't comfortable with?

Not sure what you are refering to here.
It is worth noting that the Emancipation Proclamation, (which Republicans love to cite as proof of their accomplishments), was passed before there was polling.
By many historians' accounts, it was not popular.
I don't think anyone, lib or con, is in favor of bailouts for Wall Street, but that's who owns the system.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Actually, I think it was the references to miracles that he cut out of his Bible, unless he carved it up more than I remember reading about.

Hi Dave,

I don’t need to tell you that most famous miracles in the entire bible involve Jesus - the virgin birth, the resurrection, walking on water, loaves and fishes etc.
From what I understand, anything supernatural was taken out of Jefferson’s version.
He also refused to establish a church on the University of Virginia – which was unheard of at the time.
This is not to simplistically say all The Founders were democrats or liberals, or anything like that.
I'm just saying there was diversity among the ranks.

Paine was a deist.

Fair enough.
Most of the Founders’ were deists. I will retract the “self described atheist” part.
However, Paine’s assault on both the church and organized religion in The Age of Reason would easily put him in the "secular progressive" crosshairs of Bill O'Reilly, Pat Robertson, and the Family Reasearch Council today.
The pamphlet is still pretty radical today.
It even earned him the nickname of the “dirty atheist.”

[Gibby]

I so regret voting for him. It is obvious he isn't ready for the job - he is not the least bit presidential. Total deer in the headlights look on his face, can't live without a teleprompter. The moment he speaks ad lib he says something ridiculous.

He was never a mayor, never a governor, and a senator for such a short time. He just isn't ready for the job. Maybe after some more time in Washington he would have made a much better president. As it stands now, he's in way over his head.

Yikes, what a mess.

[Eric]

So is another great depression.

First, a depression is not as bad as being attacked - I mean, if you don't exist anymore you don't even need an economy. Secondly, the only one turning this into a depression is the Obama admin.

Since when is a President not allowed to carry out his agenda in the first 100 days?
Every progressive from Teddy Roosevelt to FDR to Truman to Clinton have tried to get universal healthcare passed.
Now its Obama's turn.

Fine...but don't tell me he's being a centrist AND trying to carry out his agenda

From what I've read, most people want a public option.

A public option is one thing....forcing people into it for a long-term goal of Universal Health Care is another....and the latter is what Obama wants, as evidenced by any of his writings and speeches leading up to 2007 AND by him wanting to tax your employer coverage as income if you don't take his Obamacare. I gave you my healthcare ideas, which were all over the board politically and you just ripped me. But quite honestly, I wouldn't mind a public option being available that covered anything over $2,500 and came with a low monthly premium. I don't want people to lose their lives if they get sick and happen to be out of work. But I also don't want health care rationed and a federal sales tax on everything.

Not sure what you are referring to here. I don't think anyone, lib or con, is in favor of bailouts for Wall Street, but that's who owns the system

I don't want an entitlement state. And that's where we are headed. Saving the financial institutions was critical, but this auto crapola is terrible. They've put Chrysler dealerships in a terrible situation with all of their decisions.....they have no inventory, are not paid, and are being forced to shut down production for 2 weeks this month. One single dealership I talked to this weekend is owed $300k...thats ONE in a medium sized city. This is bad news bears.

[Don]

I guess old Bill still has some pull.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8184583.stm


North Korean leader Kim Jong-il has issued a special pardon to two detained US journalists, the country's state news agency reports.

Laura Ling and Euna Lee had been found guilty of entering illegally in March.

The news comes on the day that former US President Bill Clinton made a surprise visit to Pyongyang on what was described as a private mission.

Mr Clinton is the highest-profile American to visit since ex-secretary of state Madeleine Albright in 2000.

"Kim Jong-il issued an order... granting a special pardon to the two American journalists who had been sentenced to hard labour," the official North Korean News Agency (KCNA) said in a statement.

[Eric]

I guess old Bill still has some pull.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8184583.stm


North Korean leader Kim Jong-il has issued a special pardon to two detained US journalists, the country's state news agency reports.

Laura Ling and Euna Lee had been found guilty of entering illegally in March.

The news comes on the day that former US President Bill Clinton made a surprise visit to Pyongyang on what was described as a private mission.

Mr Clinton is the highest-profile American to visit since ex-secretary of state Madeleine Albright in 2000.

"Kim Jong-il issued an order... granting a special pardon to the two American journalists who had been sentenced to hard labour," the official North Korean News Agency (KCNA) said in a statement.

Excellent.....and a win in the Obama column.........unless there was anything given as "exchange".

[G.I.Jim]

I guess old Bill still has some pull.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8184583.stm


North Korean leader Kim Jong-il has issued a special pardon to two detained US journalists, the country's state news agency reports.

Laura Ling and Euna Lee had been found guilty of entering illegally in March.

The news comes on the day that former US President Bill Clinton made a surprise visit to Pyongyang on what was described as a private mission.

Mr Clinton is the highest-profile American to visit since ex-secretary of state Madeleine Albright in 2000.

"Kim Jong-il issued an order... granting a special pardon to the two American journalists who had been sentenced to hard labour," the official North Korean News Agency (KCNA) said in a statement.

Excellent.....and a win in the Obama column.........unless there was anything given as "exchange".

Bill probably went there to see if he could leave Hillary with them. They agreed to release the two women, if Bill would keep Hillary!

[Deacon]

- Sotomayor is unqualified and quite possibly a bigot and has only got where she has because of Affirmative Action

You're the bigot, and have already been exposed on here passing off Sotomayor's quotes out of context.
The "wise Latina woman" line is 100% accurate.
You don't think a black justice or, say, an Indian justice, would have reached better decisions when it came to Plessy v. Ferguson or The Marshall Trilogy?

No. Facts are inherently true and objective. Subjectivity has no place in an environment such as that.

[The_Noble_Cause]

First, a depression is not as bad as being attacked - I mean, if you don't exist anymore you don't even need an economy.

Go back to history class - waaaay more died in the Depression than 9-11.
The Depression was on a worldwide scale.
A bunch of box cutter toting throwbacks, who were already on terrorist watch lists, are no comparison.

Secondly, the only one turning this into a depression is the Obama admin.

No basis for this whatsoever.
You mean to tell me Obama made Hank Paulson, career Wall Street baron, convene an emergency meeting of Congress in 2008 to say the banking system had failed and we were all goin down?
Those dominos were in motion way before Obama raised his hand and took the oath.

Fine...but don't tell me he's being a centrist AND trying to carry out his agenda

If he wasn’t, the insurance industry would’ve been bypassed altogether, and Obama would’ve proposed a single payer plan like Medicare.
Instead, single payer advocates have been arrested at Senate hearings.
If he wasn’t, the stimulus wouldn’t have been larded up with tax cuts.
You are talking about the most Wall Street indebted candidate in American politics.
If anything, he is governing like Clinton - who was also attacked as being a radical commie.
The top marginal tax rate also has been left alone.

I don't want an entitlement state. And that's where we are headed.

Based on what? Americans having healthcare, just like the capitalist countries of Japan and Germany?
Cut the scare tactics.

[The_Noble_Cause]

No. Facts are inherently true and objective.

Uh-huh.
So I take it you vigorously opposed the nomination of Samuel Alito given that he said the following:

“Because when a case comes before me involving, let's say, someone who is an immigrant -- and we get an awful lot of immigration cases and naturalization cases -- I can't help but think of my own ancestors, because it wasn't that long ago when they were in that position ….When I get a case about discrimination, I have to think about people in my own family who suffered discrimination because of their ethnic background or because of religion or because of gender. And I do take that into account."

Right?

Subjectivity has no place in an environment such as that.

I’m sure the all white justices believed they were objectively following the letter of the law when they issued decisions upholding segregation and interning the Japanese.
Would a wise Latina woman have made better decisions?
Probably.

[Eric]

Go back to history class - waaaay more died in the Depression than 9-11.
The Depression was on a worldwide scale.
A bunch of box cutter toting throwbacks, who were already on terrorist watch lists, are no comparison.

You STILL don't get it. Its not just 9-11...its what potentially could have been next.

You mean to tell me Obama made Hank Paulson, career Wall Street baron, convene an emergency meeting of Congress in 2008 to say the banking system had failed and we were all goin down?

Immediate action was needed to rescue the financial industry. It was done...and a recession was to continue deeper. We should have recovered this spring, instead its worse...AND..we've taken on more debt in his first 7 months than we can reasonably handle.

Based on what? Americans having healthcare, just like the capitalist countries of Japan and Germany?
Cut the scare tactics.

45 million are unemployed out of 300+ million.....out that 12 million aren't citizens and another 7 million have household incomes of over 75k+. Another 8 million are young folks just out of school, and to whom skeletal coverage (or no coverage) is actually ideal. This leaves 18 million out of 300 million+ who need health insurance. Lets get that 6% - SIX PERCENT OF THE ENTIRE POPULATION! - coverage without all the extra BS. You and your buddy Obama are the ones using scare tactics...FIFTY MILLION UNINSURED.....Micheal Moore trick..use raw numbers to sound scary. Pathetic.

[Deacon]

Uh-huh.
So I take it you vigorously opposed the nomination of Samuel Alito given that he said the following:

“Because when a case comes before me involving, let's say, someone who is an immigrant -- and we get an awful lot of immigration cases and naturalization cases -- I can't help but think of my own ancestors, because it wasn't that long ago when they were in that position ….When I get a case about discrimination, I have to think about people in my own family who suffered discrimination because of their ethnic background or because of religion or because of gender. And I do take that into account."

Right?

Are you expecting me to say no? I'm sorry to see that he was discriminated against, but his many "experiences" don't matter. The facts of the current situation do.

I’m sure the all white justices believed they were objectively following the letter of the law when they issued decisions upholding segregation and interning the Japanese.
Would a wise Latina woman have made better decisions?
Probably.

I'm not vilifying the woman's race or gender, Taco, which is blatantly implied in the first sentence of this quote. I'm vilifying the fact that she's using subjective rationale within her infamous statement.

Nevertheless, the all-white justices were wrong, inherently. Never mind the fact that we don't know what she would have done in that situation.

How long until you start spouting belligerence? I'm proud that you haven't thus far.

[The_Noble_Cause]

You STILL don't get it. It’s not just 9-11...it’s what potentially could have been next.

This worst case scenario type logic can be applied equally to any crisis, from 9-11 to the current economic mess.

Immediate action was needed to rescue the financial industry. It was done...and a recession was to continue deeper. We should have recovered this spring, instead its worse...AND..we've taken on more debt in his first 7 months than we can reasonably handle.

Some would argue about whether the immediate action was truly needed, but I agree for the most part.
The deficit may be a problem in the long run, but for right now, the objective is to get the economy up and running.
If that involves temporary government deficit spending in place of non-existent private sector spending, so be it.

45 million are unemployed out of 300+ million.....out that 12 million aren't citizens and another 7 million have household incomes of over 75k+. Another 8 million are young folks just out of school, and to whom skeletal coverage (or no coverage) is actually ideal. This leaves 18 million out of 300 million+ who need health insurance. Lets get that 6% - SIX PERCENT OF THE ENTIRE POPULATION! - coverage without all the extra BS. You and your buddy Obama are the ones using scare tactics...FIFTY MILLION UNINSURED.....Michael Moore trick..use raw numbers to sound scary. Pathetic.

18 million is still unacceptable.
Medicare has some problems, but by and large, old folks seem happy with it.
Raise the top marginal tax back to what it was under Reagan’s first term and call it a day.
End of story.

[EightyRock]

(WITH HIM OR AGAINST HIM, THIS IS STILL DAMN FUNNY)

TEN BEST INDICATORS THAT YOUR EMPLOYER HAS CHANGED TO OBAMACARE:


(10) Your annual breast exam is done at Hooters.


(9) Directions to your doctor's office include "Take a left when you enter the trailer park."


(8) The tongue depressors taste faintly of Fudgesicles.


(7) The only proctologist in the plan is "Gus" from Roto-Rooter.


(6) The only item listed under Preventive Care Coverage is "an apple a day.."


(5) Your primary care physician is wearing the pants you gave to Goodwill last month.


(4) "The patient is responsible for 200% of out-of-network charges," is not a typographical error.


(3) The only expense covered 100% is "embalming."


(2) Your Prozac comes in different colors with little M's on them.


AND THE NUMBER ONE SIGN YOU'VE JOINED OBAMACARE:


(1) You ask for Viagra and they give you a Popsicle stick and Duct Tape.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Alito, one paragraph before TNCs out of context c&p:

And so it’s my job to apply the law. It’s not my job to change the law or to bend the law to achieve any result.

Nice try, FF.
But my "out of context" quote included an elipsis (...), you do know that is used specifically when omiting words, right?
If you want me to post the entire transcript of Alito's FIVE day confirmation hearing I can certainly do that for you.
Also, the above quote is no different than Sotomayor's comments on her job being "not to make law. It is to apply the law" and her philosophy being "It's simple: fidelity to the law."
Alito's remarks of using his own immigrant past are just as inflamatory and your side didn't say a peep.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I must ask. If you truly believe spending is the way out of this mess (and obvoiusly you do), why do you think gov doing that spending -v- public doing that spending is better?

Nobody thinks government spending is better.
The government is picking up the slack because the private sector is not spending and when that happens, the consumer saves.

[conversationpc]

The Repubs have done nothing but wish Obama failure, literally.

If one believes Obamas policies are truly harmful to America in the long run, why is it wrong to oppose his policies? I believe the short-term pain we would have gone through would have been far less than what we may be facing now that we've drastically increased our debt and deficit and continued printing and deflating our money supply at the same time.

If you think doing nothing is the reasonable choice, I ask once more, why did unemployment soar into the 20s and 30s during the banking panics of the 1800s and 1900s - pre-dating any policy of gov't intervention into the economy?

The 1920s and 1930s are in no way analogous to what we're going through today. Individual's and the government's finances were far more in order at that time than they are now.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Excuse me but the libs absoutely do. They think they can spend our money better than we can and they have said as much and now they are doing it.

You're conflating a whole range of issues...
A strong taxpayer funded safety net, which liberals advocate, is not the same thing as replacing the private sector root and branch.

How do you figure this? The gov is us.

Not in this debate it's not.
The voters do not enact policies to get money flowing again or to put people back to work.

[The_Noble_Cause]

If one believes Obamas policies are truly harmful to America in the long run, why is it wrong to oppose his policies?

It's not.
However, I believe the modern GOP would oppose anything Obama did short of tax cuts, which he included in the stimulus anyways.
I also believe if a terrorist attack happened on Gore's watch in 2001, the GOP would be the first to call for impeachment.

I believe the short-term pain we would have gone through would have been far less than what we may be facing now that we've drastically increased our debt and deficit and continued printing and deflating our money supply at the same time.

Too early to tell.

The 1920s and 1930s are in no way analogous to what we're going through today. Individual's and the government's finances were far more in order at that time than they are now.

For the purposes of this discussion, it is analogous.
You guys think gov't is making matters worse.
Back in the days of non-gov't intervention, unemployment still soared.
It's kinda like those making the case to get rid of social security - as if we didnt try that once before.
The majority of old peole were dying in poverty, which is why it was first implemented.