Oil Spill Devastation

[ScarabGator]

Obama has done everything within his power on this issue.

He looks the fool, however, because just three weeks prior to the oil spill, he had given the go-ahead for offshore drilling. So, in that sense, he is a hypocrite.

I dont think so. All hes done is shown up for photo ops standing on the beach. GW Bush would be getting his balls ripped off by now over this. Tell the people living along the gulf that hes done all he can do. I'm sure they will disagree as well.

[Behshad]

Obama has done everything within his power on this issue.

He looks the fool, however, because just three weeks prior to the oil spill, he had given the go-ahead for offshore drilling. So, in that sense, he is a hypocrite.

I dont think so. All hes done is shown up for photo ops standing on the beach. GW Bush would be getting his balls ripped off by now over this. Tell the people living along the gulf that hes done all he can do. I'm sure they will disagree as well.

OK, so you say Bush wouldve got his balls ripped off by now, but WHAT Would Bush have done ? Exactly, NOTHING !

[ScarabGator]

I guess we wont know that answer Beh. But dont feed me shit about Obama and tell me Im eating caviar.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I dont think so. All hes done is shown up for photo ops standing on the beach. GW Bush would be getting his balls ripped off by now over this.

Actually, last week Cons were bitching that he hadn't done enough photo-ops. Now that he's actually present on the gulf, what's the net result? Oh right. Empty, meaningless
publicity gestures. The fact that the government is reaching out to James Cameron, a movie director, for ideas on how to stop this, should give you a pretty good indication that nobody has a clue. Everything BP is trying is ad-hoc and improvised. I personally think, (tho I hope I'm wrong), that the oil will still be gushing by 2012. Maybe the next time a president comes along in a cardigan and offers the country real, hard choices about going green, the people will take note and listen.

[Behshad]

I guess we wont know that answer Beh. But dont feed me shit about Obama and tell me Im eating caviar.

So youre expecting an answer and solution that you dont even have ? nice

8 years of caviar Bush fed you mustve made you full by now

[ScarabGator]

Beh, are you fucking kidding me? Why the hell would I be expected to have a solution? Thats what our government is for and the the dumbasses that caused this catastrophe. I have an engineering degree but not when it comes to underwater oil outlets. Our government is supposed to be coordinating that with those BP assholes.

[ScarabGator]

I dont think so. All hes done is shown up for photo ops standing on the beach. GW Bush would be getting his balls ripped off by now over this.

Actually, last week Cons were bitching that he hadn't done enough photo-ops. Now that he's actually present on the gulf, what's the net result? Oh right. Empty, meaningless
publicity gestures. The fact that the government is reaching out to James Cameron, a movie director, for ideas on how to stop this, should give you a pretty good indication that nobody has a clue. Everything BP is trying is ad-hoc and improvised. I personally think, (tho I hope I'm wrong), that the oil will still be gushing by 2012. Maybe the next time a president comes along in a cardigan and offers the country real, hard choices about going green, the people will take note and listen.

bud, his photo ops is nothing more but to appease his approval rating...fuck the water, wildlife and shoreline, the environment...you know-the meaningless things.

[The_Noble_Cause]

bud, his photo ops is nothing more but to appease his approval rating...fuck the water, wildlife and shoreline, the environment...you know-the meaningless things.

Since when is there such a thing as a "meaningful" photo-op? This situation doesn't require a media feeding frenzy, it requires BP and gov't engineers racing around the clock to fix it- which is exactly what is happening. Like Carville, you're arguing for a silver bullet fix, where none exists.

[Behshad]

Beh, are you fucking kidding me? Why the hell would I be expected to have a solution? Thats what our government is for and the the dumbasses that caused this catastrophe. I have an engineering degree but not when it comes to underwater oil outlets. Our government is supposed to be coordinating that with those BP assholes.

My point is ,its easier to just point fingers and say Obama didnt do anything, yet YOU dont even know what you were expecting him to do .

[Voyager]

Beh, are you fucking kidding me? Why the hell would I be expected to have a solution? Thats what our government is for and the the dumbasses that caused this catastrophe. I have an engineering degree but not when it comes to underwater oil outlets. Our government is supposed to be coordinating that with those BP assholes.

"government isn’the solution to our problems; government IS the problem?" __Ronald Reagan

You only say that when the GOP is not in control. You had your eight fun years of ruining America... now suck it up and let someone else fix the mess that your boy caused.

[The_Noble_Cause]

"government isn’the solution to our problems; government IS the problem?" __Ronald Reagan

FF,
As a self-identified con, are you against the arguments currently being made by your fellow ideological travelers about getting the military involved, or putting BP under temporary recievership?

[The_Noble_Cause]

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/zieve/100605

Commentary by Sher Zieve

"Suffice it to say, if US and US-based oil companies had not been forced by environmentalists to drill at depths to which humans cannot safely travel, this would not have happened. If the spill had occurred at more human-friendly depths, the clean-up would have been much easier to handle and much faster to affect...."

Riiight. And the global credits markets coming to a halt were the result of Barney Frank and cadillac driving welfare queens and NOT decades of deregulatory free-market policies. Try as you may, no rational person is going to pin this crisis on the greens. If oil companies had their way, they would drill in both ANWR and the Gulf. Not one or the other. Offensively dumb argument.

"Governor Bobby Jindal (R-LA) begged Obama for weeks to allow the placement of berms (raised barrier separating two areas). Obama ignored the Governor. Even leftist James Carville--a resident of the State--begged his leader to assist with: “We’re dyin’ down here!“ Finally, on 3 June, Obama relented and said he would allow the placements to begin. But, even this has not happened yet. But, it now appears it may be too lateas the famously beautiful and pristine Louisiana marshlands have already been glutted with oil. Native birds are now covered with the deadly blend, while Obama fiddled, golfed, went on vacation and attended a Paul McCartney concert. Nero would be proud."

I agree this is inexcusable. With a crisis of this scale, all options should be deployed. Certainly couldn't have made matters any worse.

[RocknRoll]

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/zieve/100605

Commentary by Sher Zieve

"Suffice it to say, if US and US-based oil companies had not been forced by environmentalists to drill at depths to which humans cannot safely travel, this would not have happened. If the spill had occurred at more human-friendly depths, the clean-up would have been much easier to handle and much faster to affect...."

Riiight. And the global credits markets coming to a halt were the result of Barney Frank and cadillac driving welfare queens and NOT decades of deregulatory free-market policies. Try as you may, no rational person is going to pin this crisis on the greens. If oil companies had their way, they would drill in both ANWR and the Gulf. Not one or the other. Offensively dumb argument.

There's a considerable cost difference in building a deepwater platform vs. an onshore or shallow water. The numbers I found show $1.0mm-$15.0mm for shallow water and $500mm-$5.0 billion for a deepwater platform, which is also considerably riskier and more expensive to operate. Not really arguing, but costs would definitely be a factor.

[The_Noble_Cause]

There's a considerable cost difference in building a deepwater platform vs. an onshore or shallow water. The numbers I found show $1.0mm-$15.0mm for shallow water and $500mm-$5.0 billion for a deepwater platform, which is also considerably riskier and more expensive to operate. Not really arguing, but costs would definitely be a factor.

Sure. But when an industry has the potential to wreck entire marine species and ecosystems, you can’t rely solely on private balance sheets/profit margins to guide them to do what’s in the best interest for the environment. Let’s say BP was permitted to drill in ANWR and closer to the coast…you really think they would refrain from pursuing offshore? I don’t.

[slucero]

Oil companies will drill anywhere they can... as long as they can do so and make a profit. Influencing, cajoling or coercing governments (not parties) into allowing it is a "cost of doing business".

That practice (influencing, cajoling or coercing) is fundamental to how this country runs.. in fact its the "American way"... and is also what is partially wrong with this country.

[RocknRoll]

There's a considerable cost difference in building a deepwater platform vs. an onshore or shallow water. The numbers I found show $1.0mm-$15.0mm for shallow water and $500mm-$5.0 billion for a deepwater platform, which is also considerably riskier and more expensive to operate. Not really arguing, but costs would definitely be a factor.

Sure. But when an industry has the potential to wreck entire marine species and ecosystems, you can’t rely solely on private balance sheets/profit margins to guide them to do what’s in the best interest for the environment. Let’s say BP was permitted to drill in ANWR and closer to the coast…you really think they would refrain from pursuing offshore? I don’t.

Since the industry operates to make money, considering the amount of capital/operating expenses and risks involved to the environment and I do believe that is a consideration, I'm betting you would have seen more shallow water drilling. The CEO of Conoco/Phillips as an example has been talking about the difference in costs, etc. for years.

[Sarah]

Why can't they just pinch off the pipe? At least as a temporary solution to slow it down?

[The Sushi Hunter]

Why can't they just pinch off the pipe? At least as a temporary solution to slow it down?

Well I'm no expert but.....a mile below the surface is a problem. The pipe appears to be made out of a material that doesn't "pinch", like a fire main...it may just break off when being bent.

Lessons learned.....I'm pretty sure from here on out there will be a new design that incorporates an emergency shut-off valve to be put at the bottom in the line so in case something like this occurs again in the future they can close the valve at the bottom of the line. I'm surprised they didn't have any such device in place already.

[RocknRoll]

Why can't they just pinch off the pipe? At least as a temporary solution to slow it down?

Well I'm no expert but.....a mile below the surface is a problem. The pipe appears to be made out of a material that doesn't "pinch", like a fire main...it may just break off when being bent.

Lessons learned.....I'm pretty sure from here on out there will be a new design that incorporates an emergency shut-off valve to be put at the bottom in the line so in case something like this occurs again in the future they can close the valve at the bottom of the line. I'm surprised they didn't have any such device in place already.

There was an emergency shut-off/blow-out valve which all deep water drillers use but is not required. They install it anyway at a cost of ~$500.0MM. Big question is why didn't it work? There's a lot of noise out there now that the fire boats that actually ended up sinking the platform with water to SAVE LIVES may have actually caused the big problem with the spill. Definitely not confirmed, but comes from an expert at Tulane. Regardless, total FUBAR!

Sarah. I'm not an engineer but familiar with the oil industry. (Ken may be able to get into the psi thing, OK maybe we don't go there) I think the biggest problem is they were drilling another 3+ miles below the ocean floor. Huge pressure change. I know they tried the TopKill/JunkShot (I think this was a gov't push) to force enough drilling mud/junk down the pipe, but the pressure UP from the oil escaping was too great. They couldn't generate enough pressure to force the drilling mud/junk DOWN the pipe to offset the UP flow. Trying to just crimp or clamp the pipe probably wouldn't hold based on the pressure generated from the well. That's why they are doing this partial pump the oil UP/pressure release untill they can control it. They are drilling the final solution which is relief wells just to be able to control the pressure of the deep oil prior to capping the well methodically. Just my speculation based on what I've heard.

I know that when they had the well blow-out in 1979 in the Gulf off the coast of Mexico (albeit shallower water). It was blowing out almost twice what is occurring now, around 1.200,000 gallons/day, they controlled about 1/3 with the JunkShot after around 30 days(hence Obama's crews favorite not bp's. Again not confirmed) even though there were huge differences in the depth of the well. Apparently this Mexican well leaked for another 10 months at about 500.000 gallons a day. The oil industry learned a lot from that incident.

Sarah, I know you're more of an enviromentalist than I am, but I think we all are in today's world. It's just how much? I did work for BP/Amoco for 25 years and am somewhat biased. Nobody can bring back the lives lost but maybe we can still save the majority of the marine life. Anyway, I certainly hope so SOON!! This is devastating for all.

[Voyager]

The irony:

[Everett]

The irony:

I don't think oil rig pumps count for that voyager

[The Sushi Hunter]

I've not heard anything about BP not taking responsibility for the mishap yet.

[Sarah]

Sarah, I know you're more of an enviromentalist than I am, but I think we all are in today's world. It's just how much? I did work for BP/Amoco for 25 years and am somewhat biased. Nobody can bring back the lives lost but maybe we can still save the majority of the marine life. Anyway, I certainly hope so SOON!! This is devastating for all.

I'm not really an environmentalist. Yeah, I really hate that human beings recklessly destroy nature because of greed, and I hope that we take big steps toward other sources of fuel soon, but I wouldn't get out there and rally or anything. I don't even recycle everything I should (just CRV stuff).

The pinch thing, I just heard that elsewhere and mentioned it here. It wasn't like a serious solution, I'm no engineer.

[DrFU]

A woman sitting next to me at a concert the other night said that if women were in charge, we'd already have called Kimberly Clark and ordered the world's biggest tampon to stop the flow.

Gotta laugh ... otherwise the whole thing makes you want to cry ... or throw up.

[ohsherrie]

All hes done is shown up for photo ops standing on the beach. GW Bush would be getting his balls ripped off by now over this. Tell the people living along the gulf that hes done all he can do. I'm sure they will disagree as well.

At least he didn't swagger off a plane with his sleeves rolled up like he was ready to do some real work, shake Tony Hayward's hand and say "good job Hay" while the oil gushes on.

[AlteredDNA]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/polit ... 19074.html

Spill reveals Obama's lack of executive experience
By: Byron York
Chief Political Correspondent
June 8, 2010

In mid-February 2008, fresh from winning a bunch of Super Tuesday primaries, Barack Obama granted an interview to "60 Minutes" correspondent Steve Croft. "When you sit down and you look at [your] resume," Croft said to Obama, "there's no executive experience, and in fact, correct if I'm wrong, the only thing that you've actually run was the Harvard Law Review."

"Well, I've run my Senate office, and I've run this campaign," Obama said.

Seven months later, after receiving the Democratic presidential nomination, Obama talked with CNN's Anderson Cooper. At the time, the news was dominated by Hurricane Gustav, which was headed toward New Orleans and threatening to become a Katrina-like disaster. "Some of your Republican critics have said you don't have the experience to handle a situation like this," Cooper said to Obama. "They in fact have said that Governor Palin has more executive experience. ..."

"Governor Palin's town of Wasilla has, I think, 50 employees," Obama answered. "We have got 2,500 in this campaign. I think their budget is maybe $12 million a year. You know, we have a budget of about three times that just for the month. So, I think that our ability to manage large systems and to execute, I think, has been made clear over the last couple of years."

Obama ignored Palin's experience as governor of Alaska, which was considerably bigger than the Obama campaign. But his point was clear: If you're worried about my lack of my executive experience, look at my campaign. Running a first-rate campaign, Obama and his supporters argued, showed that Obama could run the federal government, even at its most testing moments. He could set goals, demand accountability, and, perhaps most importantly, bend the sprawling federal bureaucracy to his will.

Fast forward to 2010. The oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico is gushing out of control. The Obama administration is at first slow to see the seriousness of the accident. Then, as the crisis becomes clear, the federal bureaucracy becomes entangled in itself trying to deal with the problem. "At least a dozen federal agencies have taken part in the spill response," the New York Times reports, "making decision-making slow, conflicted and confused, as they sought to apply numerous federal statutes."

For example, it took the Department of Homeland Security more than a week to classify the spill as an event calling for the highest level of federal action. And when state officials in Louisiana tried over and over to win federal permission to build sand barriers to protect fragile coastal wetlands from the oil, they got nowhere. "For three weeks, as the giant slick crept closer to shore," the Times reports, "officials from the White House, Coast Guard, Army Corps of Engineers, Fish and Wildlife Service, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and Environmental Protection Agency debated the best approach."

The bureaucracy wasn't bending to anyone's will. The direction from the top was not clear. And accountability? So far, the only head that has rolled during the Gulf crisis has been that of Minerals Management Service chief Elizabeth Birnbaum. But during a May 27 news conference, Obama admitted he didn't even know whether she had resigned or been fired. "I found out about it this morning, so I don't yet know the circumstances," the president said. "And [Interior Secretary] Ken Salazar's been in testimony on the Hill." Obama's answer revealed that he hadn't fired Birnbaum, and he couldn't reach a member of his Cabinet who was a few blocks down Pennsylvania Avenue.

Given all that, perhaps candidates in future presidential races will think twice before arguing that running their campaign counts as executive experience.

A few days before Obama won the White House, Bill Clinton joined him for a late-night rally in Kissimmee, Fla. Clinton, who became president after 12 years as a governor, told the crowd not to worry about Obama's lack of executive background. Given the brilliance of Obama's campaign, Clinton said -- and here the former president uncharacteristically mangled his words a bit -- a President Obama would be "the chief executor of good intentions as president."

Chief executor of good intentions? Perhaps that's what Obama is now. But with oil gushing into the Gulf, that's just not good enough.

[ScarabGator]

Good read ADNA.

[The_Noble_Cause]

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Spill-reveals-Obama_s-lack-of-executive-experience-95819074.html

Spill reveals Obama's lack of executive experience
By: Byron York
Chief Political Correspondent
June 8, 2010

In mid-February 2008, fresh from winning a bunch of Super Tuesday primaries, Barack Obama granted an interview to "60 Minutes" correspondent Steve Croft. "When you sit down and you look at [your] resume," Croft said to Obama, "there's no executive experience, and in fact, correct if I'm wrong, the only thing that you've actually run was the Harvard Law Review."

"Well, I've run my Senate office, and I've run this campaign," Obama said.

Seven months later, after receiving the Democratic presidential nomination, Obama talked with CNN's Anderson Cooper. At the time, the news was dominated by Hurricane Gustav, which was headed toward New Orleans and threatening to become a Katrina-like disaster. "Some of your Republican critics have said you don't have the experience to handle a situation like this," Cooper said to Obama. "They in fact have said that Governor Palin has more executive experience. ..."

"Governor Palin's town of Wasilla has, I think, 50 employees," Obama answered. "We have got 2,500 in this campaign. I think their budget is maybe $12 million a year. You know, we have a budget of about three times that just for the month. So, I think that our ability to manage large systems and to execute, I think, has been made clear over the last couple of years."

Obama ignored Palin's experience as governor of Alaska, which was considerably bigger than the Obama campaign. But his point was clear: If you're worried about my lack of my executive experience, look at my campaign. Running a first-rate campaign, Obama and his supporters argued, showed that Obama could run the federal government, even at its most testing moments. He could set goals, demand accountability, and, perhaps most importantly, bend the sprawling federal bureaucracy to his will.

Fast forward to 2010. The oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico is gushing out of control. The Obama administration is at first slow to see the seriousness of the accident. Then, as the crisis becomes clear, the federal bureaucracy becomes entangled in itself trying to deal with the problem. "At least a dozen federal agencies have taken part in the spill response," the New York Times reports, "making decision-making slow, conflicted and confused, as they sought to apply numerous federal statutes."

For example, it took the Department of Homeland Security more than a week to classify the spill as an event calling for the highest level of federal action. And when state officials in Louisiana tried over and over to win federal permission to build sand barriers to protect fragile coastal wetlands from the oil, they got nowhere. "For three weeks, as the giant slick crept closer to shore," the Times reports, "officials from the White House, Coast Guard, Army Corps of Engineers, Fish and Wildlife Service, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and Environmental Protection Agency debated the best approach."

The bureaucracy wasn't bending to anyone's will. The direction from the top was not clear. And accountability? So far, the only head that has rolled during the Gulf crisis has been that of Minerals Management Service chief Elizabeth Birnbaum. But during a May 27 news conference, Obama admitted he didn't even know whether she had resigned or been fired. "I found out about it this morning, so I don't yet know the circumstances," the president said. "And [Interior Secretary] Ken Salazar's been in testimony on the Hill." Obama's answer revealed that he hadn't fired Birnbaum, and he couldn't reach a member of his Cabinet who was a few blocks down Pennsylvania Avenue.

Given all that, perhaps candidates in future presidential races will think twice before arguing that running their campaign counts as executive experience.

A few days before Obama won the White House, Bill Clinton joined him for a late-night rally in Kissimmee, Fla. Clinton, who became president after 12 years as a governor, told the crowd not to worry about Obama's lack of executive background. Given the brilliance of Obama's campaign, Clinton said -- and here the former president uncharacteristically mangled his words a bit -- a President Obama would be "the chief executor of good intentions as president."

Chief executor of good intentions? Perhaps that's what Obama is now. But with oil gushing into the Gulf, that's just not good enough.

Yawn.
A partisan Republican op-ed columnist bashing the Democratic president. How very insightful.
You’ll note, like most critics, Byron York (aka the human pompadour) offers not a single solitary solution to the spill.
No mention of the Coast Guard being deployed immediately either.
He does seem pretty vested in promoting Sarah Palin’s 2012 run though –reason alone not to take this hatchet job seriously.
The Obama presidency and the challenges it faces have proved that the Republican Party has no fixed ideological beliefs and will say anything to regain power. Not a unique trait amongst politicians to be sure, but these syphilitic whores have really raised it to strange, new art forms. In one breath they hyperventilate against imaginary takeovers of various industries (banking, healthcare, automotive) and in the next, they demand that Obama wipe out BP’s board of directors and wrest control over a private capitalist crisis. Much like the GOP’s new found religion of green energy and consumer protections, this article is disingenuous trash.

[bluejeangirl76]

A woman sitting next to me at a concert the other night said that if women were in charge, we'd already have called Kimberly Clark and ordered the world's biggest tampon to stop the flow.

Gotta laugh ... otherwise the whole thing makes you want to cry ... or throw up.

This should do it...



I call these "Atlanic Ocean Absorbancy"

[ScarabGator]

"The Obama presidency and the challenges it faces have proved that the Republican Party has no fixed ideological beliefs and will say anything to regain power."
you know what Noble? I think the Democrat party is getting that accomplished just fine without the Republican partys help. And Im sure most Americans will be smart enough to realize that this November and then again in 2012.