Batman V Superman: Dawn of Justice THREAD

[verslibre]

Zack Snyder Discusses Themes Behind 'Batman v Superman'

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2016/04/01/interview-zack-snyder-discusses-themes-behind-batman-v-superman/#2c4c51944df6

[verslibre]

Ah, so you believe in the Goebbels way of selling movie tickets...You know, if you buy tickets and see the movie over and over again, eventually you'll believe you like it.

You're going to watch it strapped to a chair with your eyelids fixed open. An usher will drip drops into your eyes to keep them moist.

Seriously, that was just a very convenient example of a guy who liked the movie a lot more the second time around. Not all of Kev's tastes mesh with mine. He loved those wretched Star Wars prequels.

[verslibre]

Zack and the entire cast were on Conan last night.

Gal looked positively STUNNING. She's really toned.





Here are some set pix. I believe that's Patty (director) off to the far right.

[YoungJRNYfan]

BvS should have been better.

When did you see it?

Didn't see it. Don't need to see it to know it should have been better.

Don't believe everything you hear, son.

[YoungJRNYfan]

There were more too, but we never came out of a Marvel movie talking about things like that. That is not a hit on Marvel either, they make different movies.

"Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding" we have a winner

In all honesty, Abitman, it's been nice hearing a fresh perspective on these things. I tend to agree with everything you've typed thus far.

[YoungJRNYfan]

It really doesn't matter.

Don't be so sure. Didn't Batman & Robin do well at the box office? Making bank Didn't save Batman from getting killed theatrically for years because it was critically panned.

You can't harpen back all the way to 1997. So much of the business practices (especially with the superhero genre) has changed. Besides, 'Batman Triumph' (look it up) was on the table at WB and they realized how shit the product was. In Batman Forever's favor, atleast it had direction to continue. Though it was the beginning of the "over-acting" portion of the Bat franchise, it was one of the first times we've seen the mythology go deep into the mind of Bruce Wayne's character and how his parents death effected him.

Batman and Robin was piss awful. The entire film was written in puns and there wasn't a linear path for any actor or actress to follow. Shumacher really killed that franchise, not necessarily the BO. Did you ever see the actors talk about that movie in build up to it? Not one of them knew what to say and couldn't even defend it. Alicia Silverstone literally sat there and was like "I seriously know nothing about what just happened on set." Lmao. I remember Clooney trying to answer a simple Batman question and the heat in the room turned up to 1,000. The franchise at that point was murdered. Nothing but one big pun. When things go into that wacky of a direction, it's easy for a studio to pull the plug.

The DCEU is set in stone. Critical reception can really go in both ways. Take Superman Returns for instance. It did okay at the Box Office and critics really liked it. But after a few years of pissing around with Singer, the studio just didn't like the idea of where the project was going and couldn't wait around. With the DCEU, I believe that they have their entire story built and believe in it. Most things you are hearing about BvS and the critical response is that it's too dark, but the DCEU was always about reverse engineering the superhero world building.

Check the title. "DAWN of Justice." They always say it's the Darkest before the Dawn. If they believe in their story, they know the fans are going to have to be patient with each setup. You just don't abandon stuff if you know it's heading to a certain place that may purposely address some of the criticisms in the long-run. WB/DC is well equipped and major franchise's are going to come out of it. This marks the first time ever they have one big story for their DC Universe. They are all in.

[Monker]

You are very much in denial. A studio doesn't care about critical reviews, or even audience reviews, as much as much as how much money can be made. If WB believes they can make more money off of another film over a DC film, then DC films won't get made.

The critical reviews matter in that they drive down sales both in the theater and the various ways to purchase after it has its theater run. If BvS doesn't make a lot of money (and it seems it won't) and Suicide Squad doesn't (I have very little faith that it will), then all the pressure is on Wonder Woman. She was the one good thing about BvS that everybody seems to agree on.

If WW fails to deliver, then that is three strikes in a row...if that happens it puts the entire DCEU in jeopardy.

Check the title. "DAWN of Justice." They always say it's the Darkest before the Dawn.

You are now making stuff up. You know it is simply saying BvS is the "birth" of the Justice League. It has nothing to do with darkness or sunrises. The title steals the idea of "Captain America : The First Avenger". It tells the audience what is coming up.

If they believe in their story, they know the fans are going to have to be patient with each setup. You just don't abandon stuff if you know it's heading to a certain place that may purposely address some of the criticisms in the long-run.

Come on....nobody can tell the audience how to react. In general, most people won't care to listen. Those that do may be offended enough to do the opposite.

That seems to be part of the problem with BvS, Snyder et all seemed to want the audience to expect certain things, to know certain things, and to react in specific ways. They did NOT do enough explaining of these characters on screen to be able to assume any of this. It's bad story telling. I still read on some forums people asking why they are mad at each other. Now that so much has been revealed, people ask why Superman seems so pissed off.

WB/DC is well equipped and major franchise's are going to come out of it. This marks the first time ever they have one big story for their DC Universe. They are all in.

DC is all in....but will WB support them? THAT is the question...and I say they won't if they are not making money.

[Monker]

There were more too, but we never came out of a Marvel movie talking about things like that. That is not a hit on Marvel either, they make different movies.

"Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding" we have a winner

In all honesty, Abitman, it's been nice hearing a fresh perspective on these things. I tend to agree with everything you've typed thus far.

And, yet BvS does not connect to audiences or critics the way the MCU movies have overall. After all of this fan fair and hype, the best you can come up with is it made you think.

Again, I will say if people went to movies to think, then documentaries would be a lot more popular.

[YoungJRNYfan]

You are very much in denial.

If WB believes they can make more money off of another film over a DC film, then DC films won't get made.

WB had a very weak 2015. One of their WORST years ever. They need more franchise's and regardless of bad critical reviews, BvS is making money and will turn in a good profit. But what else is it giving the studio? More franchise's. Not only more franchise's, but franchise's of their DC library...which happen to be iconic. WB is getting what they want out of this DCEU. Regardless of the critical response and the mixed audiences, people are excited about what's next and Justice League. People are talking and anticipating about one of the most important aspects of the film: What was Flash's warning? People are going nuts over it. That's good.

then all the pressure is on Wonder Woman. She was the one good thing about BvS that everybody seems to agree on.

This proves to me that not only don't you read, but you don't comprehend. You only show up when there's feathers to be ruffled. If you look back in the history of v and I's posts, we said it numerous times, over and over again, that regardless of how BvS is perceived by audiences, Wonder Woman is the KEY. We couldn't of said it louder that if Wonder Woman is NOT accepted, then things wouldn't go well for the future. Wonder Woman is going to be such a telling franchise for DC and her reception, above anybody else, was the reaction WB was paying attention most to. Like you said, it worked and WB/DC are aware of that. Wonder Woman was a hit. Audiences accepted her. That's a GOOD thing and it opens up endless possibilities, especially for female fans and the empowerment of that audience. If Wonder Woman, the most fiercest and iconic pop cultural female PHENOM is accepted in her first go around, then WIN for the DCEU. You are wrong on Wonder Woman being the only thing accepted, BTW. People LOVED Ben Affleck as Batman and Henry has his legion of fans. Critics agreed that the acting was phenomenal across the board. And that's a fact, Jack.

You are now making stuff up.

It's well documented to the point to where it's easy. People make stuff up in the figment of their imaginations. I follow guys like Zack Snyder, Debbie Snyder and guys like Charles Roven who are the creators of this DCEU. They've said as such. They are deconstructing the DCEU. They are pitting their hero's against each other FIRST before that light bulb goes off. The tone will lighten up once these hero's team up and the world starts accepting them. Mark the words, bub.

people ask why Superman seems so pissed off.

Watch the movie. He's not pissed off

DC is all in....but will WB support them? THAT is the question...and I say they won't if they are not making money.

WB/DC are one in the same. WB are the ones that greenlight projects. They are the ones collaborating on these things and Snyder already admitted that WB allows their directors creative freedom. You need to get more familiar with Kevin Tsujihara, the new chairman and CEO of Warner Brothers. He's the one that's gung-ho about getting this DCEU off the ground (something the older WB heirs never bothered to implement.) He understands the franchise's that can be spawned from all of this, which brings us back to Wonder Woman and others like Flash and Aquaman. Batman V Superman is one thing, but when people want to see MORE of those characters? BvS did its job with the Flash's warning. They'll come back.

[YoungJRNYfan]

And, yet BvS does not connect to audiences or critics the way the MCU movies have overall. After all of this fan fair and hype, the best you can come up with is it made you think.

Again, I will say if people went to movies to think, then documentaries would be a lot more popular.

DC doesn't connect the same way as Marvel does, true. That's the most important part at being the alternative. They aren't implementing the same repetitive story telling beats that are geared toward the same audience's. WB/DC is targeting a much maturer audience; more-so the teenage range and above. They aren't necessarily worried about making their DCEU universal to children first, which allows them to tell their own stories and not be so tightly backed into a corner. What Abitman is saying, is that it's not all about the "thinking" aspect of things, as it is the "talking" aspects of things. Love it or hate it, it's getting people talking about it and that's important in itself. Hell, you haven't even seen the movie, but your crusade on the DCEU continues. And guess what? You'll be back and do the same in the JL thread

[Abitaman]

There were more too, but we never came out of a Marvel movie talking about things like that. That is not a hit on Marvel either, they make different movies.

"Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding" we have a winner

In all honesty, Abitman, it's been nice hearing a fresh perspective on these things. I tend to agree with everything you've typed thus far.

And, yet BvS does not connect to audiences or critics the way the MCU movies have overall. After all of this fan fair and hype, the best you can come up with is it made you think.

Again, I will say if people went to movies to think, then documentaries would be a lot more popular.

If you read my earler thoughts on the film, i really liked it. I had a couple issues, but nothing big. I walked out very happy person, as did my family, and other people I talked too.
The made me think part is about, here it is a week later and we are still thinking and talking about the movie. Last Marvel movie that made us talk about more than a day later was the last Captain America Movie, before that the first Avengers, done of the other Marvel movies got tslked about, other than , hey that was, that sucked, or it was ok.
MOS has us talking as did the last two Batmans that are not part of the new DCEU.

[Monker]

WB had a very weak 2015. One of their WORST years ever. They need more franchise's and regardless of bad critical reviews, BvS is making money and will turn in a good profit.

Ticket sales are down well over %70 for the second week. What was that you said about it needing to have legs?

But what else is it giving the studio? More franchise's. Not only more franchise's, but franchise's of their DC library...which happen to be iconic. WB is getting what they want out of this DCEU. Regardless of the critical response and the mixed audiences, people are excited about what's next and Justice League. People are talking and anticipating about one of the most important aspects of the film: What was Flash's warning? People are going nuts over it. That's good.

None of this matters if they release movies that barely gross more than it cost to make them.

As I said, you are in denial.

then all the pressure is on Wonder Woman. She was the one good thing about BvS that everybody seems to agree on.

This proves to me that not only don't you read, but you don't comprehend. You only show up when there's feathers to be ruffled. If you look back in the history of v and I's posts, we said it numerous times, over and over again, that regardless of how BvS is perceived by audiences, Wonder Woman is the KEY.

And, I never commented on those posts you guys made.

Wonder Woman is crucial now. BvS did not do what it needed to do. It did not set up Suicide Squad with massive success. It set up Wonder Woman because people generally found her the most interesting part of BvS. If BvS had been a huge success then Wonder Woman could afford to be like the first Thor movie...important to tell a solo story but not crucial for the success of the entire universe. Now Wonder Woman's success is crucial for the entire DCEU. If it fails like BvS, so does the DCEU.

It's well documented to the point to where it's easy. People make stuff up in the figment of their imaginations. I follow guys like Zack Snyder, Debbie Snyder and guys like Charles Roven who are the creators of this DCEU. They've said as such. They are deconstructing the DCEU. They are pitting their hero's against each other FIRST before that light bulb goes off. The tone will lighten up once these hero's team up and the world starts accepting them. Mark the words, bub.

Ah, so that is why they are reshooting bits of Suicide Squad to lighten things up....not because BvS failed to deliver.

They don't know what they're doing. It doesn't matter if it is dark or light if the story telling sucks.

people ask why Superman seems so pissed off.

WB/DC are one in the same.

That contradicts some things you guys argued earlier when comparing DC to Marvel Studios. Either WB/DC are the same or WB is a studio that releases these films as apposed to Marvel who own their own studio.

WB are the ones that greenlight projects. They are the ones collaborating on these things and Snyder already admitted that WB allows their directors creative freedom. You need to get more familiar with Kevin Tsujihara, the new chairman and CEO of Warner Brothers. He's the one that's gung-ho about getting this DCEU off the ground (something the older WB heirs never bothered to implement.) He understands the franchise's that can be spawned from all of this, which brings us back to Wonder Woman and others like Flash and Aquaman. Batman V Superman is one thing, but when people want to see MORE of those characters? BvS did its job with the Flash's warning. They'll come back.

You will not convince me that if these films barely make money that WB won't dump them in favor of films that do. If the current CEO doesn't do that, I would suspect he will be looking for work soon.

[Monker]

And, yet BvS does not connect to audiences or critics the way the MCU movies have overall. After all of this fan fair and hype, the best you can come up with is it made you think.

Again, I will say if people went to movies to think, then documentaries would be a lot more popular.

DC doesn't connect the same way as Marvel does, true. That's the most important part at being the alternative. They aren't implementing the same repetitive story telling beats that are geared toward the same audience's. WB/DC is targeting a much maturer audience; more-so the teenage range and above. They aren't necessarily worried about making their DCEU universal to children first, which allows them to tell their own stories and not be so tightly backed into a corner. What Abitman is saying, is that it's not all about the "thinking" aspect of things, as it is the "talking" aspects of things. Love it or hate it, it's getting people talking about it and that's important in itself. Hell, you haven't even seen the movie, but your crusade on the DCEU continues. And guess what? You'll be back and do the same in the JL thread

You just don't get it. The TDK series was aimed at a more mature audience with a darker and more serious story. Guess what? Those films his the same story beats that Marvel does - you just don't recognize it.

As for all of this "getting them to talk about it...." You said the EXACT SAME THING and made the same argument for the trailers. It may have slightly helped the first week of sales, but after that it doesn't matter at all

[YoungJRNYfan]

Monker, you've been here 14 years and still don't know how to quote I don't trust you've even seen most of these films to properly tell any sort of difference with these movies.

Did you happen to read the article v posted about how BvS is the modern revenge story? It mentions the Hero's Journey being one way or storytelling but BvS happens to follow the revenge tragedy. It breaks it down and makes sense. You should read it. It's a good education. Not that you could compare, though when all you do is take other people's words for it.

[verslibre]

[YoungJRNYfan]

This is crazy what people can do:

The making of General Zod's corpse:

http://www.cosmicbooknews.com/content/w ... s-superman

[verslibre]

You will not convince me that if these films barely make money that WB won't dump them in favor of films that do. If the current CEO doesn't do that, I would suspect he will be looking for work soon.

My goodness. The cynicism. Well, not unsurprising.

The show will go on. BvS is within spitting distance of $700M after two weekends ($$682,857,793). In fact, when it hits 750, soon, it will have grossed the same amount of money worldwide that it took X-Men: Days of Future Past over three months to earn. More, actually: DoFP made just under $748M. It took four months (it opened 5/23) to hit its final domestic cumulative gross of roughly $234 million. BvS crossed that line yesterday and sits at $261,457,793 before we add Sunday (today). Btw, these movies had roughly the same budgets, and are regarded as tentpoles, hence the comparison.

But then you'll say "It really cost WB around $400M or so, after marketing." Yeah, 'round there, purportedly. And it cost Fox $365M total for DoFP when you factor that in. Conclusion: DoFP finished at a loss! I seriously doubt BvS will.

The critical backlash won't faze the studio. Expectations are seldom realistic, but BvS is being held to a different standard. Why wasn't DoFP? Look at its cast: it collected X-actors past and present, from the first trilogy and from First Class, on one screen, in one story. It adapted (with mixed results) Chris Claremont's great storyline, though they shuffled a bunch of things around. It capitalized on Hugh Jackman's continued popularity. And so on. But still, it didn't turn out to be the runaway success it should have been. I thought it might be the first X-flick to at least near a billion big ones. Nope!

What's coming out at the end of May? Oh, yeah: X-Men: Apocalypse! What the?! Shouldn't they know better? Especially after that Fant4stic ultra-bomb?

[verslibre]

Just to show how I grade the Marvel Movies

I'm going to play. On the fence on some of these. They could all slide back a third of a point tomorrow. Or in select cases, up.

Fantastic 4 C+
Fantastic 4 ROTSS C
Fantastic 4 reboot [Have not watched, don't want to]

Blade B
Blade 2 D
Blade 3 [Have not watched, don't want to]

Punisher 80's F
Punisher B
Punisher 2 B

Daredevil (dir cut) D (Have not seen the Dir. Cut, but I do not like this film, anyway, so....]
Elektra – [My Magic 8-Ball told me to avoid at all costs]

Spiderman A-
Spiderman 2 A
Spiderman 3 D
Amz Spiderman B-
Amz Spiderman 2 C-

Captain America B+
Captain America 2 A

Ironman A-
Ironman 2 C
Ironman 3 C

Thor B-
Thor 2 D

Ghost Rider C
Ghost Rider 2 – [Never got around to it]

Hulk D
Hulk 2 C+

X-Men C-
X-Men 2 B-
X-Men 3 C+
X-Men First Class A- [Fave X-flick, by far]
X-Men DOFP B-

X-Men Origins: Wolverine C+
The Wolverine C+

Antman C+

Avengers A
Avengers 2 B-

Guardians of the Galaxy B-

[verslibre]

DC time. Thanks for the list, Eric.

Superman & the Mole Men – [Can't rate, been too long]
Superman A-
Superman 2 B+
Superman 2 Donner Cut A-
Superman 3 C-
Superman 4 F
Superman Returns C
Man of Steel A-

Batman (66) B
Batman (89) A-
Batman Returns B-
Batman Forever C+ [I used to like it more]
Batman Robin F ["Hi, Freeze, I'm George!"]
Batman Begins A
Dark Knight A+
Dark Knight 2 B+
Batman v Superman: DOJ A

Swamp Thing C+
Swamp Thing 2 F

Steel F

Catwoman D-

Constantine B-

V for Vendetta B

Watchmen A-

Jonah Hex D

Green Lantern C-

The Losers B- [More people should watch this]

Supergirl D[/quote]

[verslibre]

Oh, nothing, it's just some concept art for Mera for Justice League Pt. 1.

[verslibre]

What on Earth is that concept art for on the wall? Could it be...

[YoungJRNYfan]

Justice League Part One. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.

[verslibre]

Things might get bloody.

[verslibre]

[YoungJRNYfan]

Zack Snyder Defends Aquaman’s Role in BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE
"Aquaman's Trident can cut the flesh of Superman.."
http://collider.com/aquaman-batman-v-superman-zack-snyder/



Henry Cavill Excited About JUSTICE LEAGUE And Working With Jason Momoa's AQUAMAN
At the premiere for Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, Superman actor Henry Cavill expressed his excitement about working on Justice League and acting alongside Jason Momoa's Aquaman in particular.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/justice_l ... on-a132361

HMMMM. Justice League Part 1: Battle of Atlantis
Justice League Part 2: The Coming of Apokolips

[verslibre]

Jason's hair is dirty blond, now. See, people? There's Aquaman! For those who bitched about him not resembling the character.

[YoungJRNYfan]

‘The Flash’ Movie Teams Barry Allen and Cyborg
‘Batman v Superman’ producer Deborah Snyder teases that ‘The Flash’ will have a partner in his solo movie.
http://movieweb.com/flash-movie-cyborg- ... ay-fisher/

"When we get to the Flash movie, Ezra Miller and Ray Fisher - who plays Cyborg - are kind of our youngest characters, and they have a really nice camaraderie with each other. Ezra is super funny, so the tone of that film will be very different than the rest of them."

Mother Box's. Boom Tubes. Multiverse's. Timelines. Makes sense!

Two interesting tidbits from that article:

While we haven't heard that Superman is officially showing up in Wonder Woman, that idea has been teased. And we know for sure that Batman is taking a stand against the Joker in Suicide Squad.

There is also a rumor brewing that Aquaman has a rather substantial role to play in next year's Wonder Woman movie. The Amazons and the underwater kingdom of Atlantis are said to be at war. This is something Wonder Woman supposedly touches on, and will be further explored in Justice League Part 1.

[Monker]

The show will go on. BvS is within spitting distance of $700M after two weekends ($$682,857,793). In fact, when it hits 750, soon, it will have grossed the same amount of money worldwide that it took X-Men: Days of Future Past over three months to earn. More, actually: DoFP made just under $748M. It took four months (it opened 5/23) to hit its final domestic cumulative gross of roughly $234 million. BvS crossed that line yesterday and sits at $261,457,793 before we add Sunday (today). Btw, these movies had roughly the same budgets, and are regarded as tentpoles, hence the comparison.

But then you'll say "It really cost WB around $400M or so, after marketing." Yeah, 'round there, purportedly. And it cost Fox $365M total for DoFP when you factor that in. Conclusion: DoFP finished at a loss! I seriously doubt BvS will.

If you read what I said it is that if Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman do not perform then the DC's films are in jeopardy. I am not saying BvS will cause such a backlash. It seems those other two films are beyond the stopping point anyway...SS about to be released, and they would be foolish to not release Wonder Woman at this point.

It is also not me who is setting the mark so high for BvS. It is WB who said if it doesn't make a billion it will be a disappointment.

The critical backlash won't faze the studio. Expectations are seldom realistic, but BvS is being held to a different standard. Why wasn't DoFP? Look at its cast: it collected X-actors past and present, from the first trilogy and from First Class, on one screen, in one story. It adapted (with mixed results) Chris Claremont's great storyline, though they shuffled a bunch of things around. It capitalized on Hugh Jackman's continued popularity. And so on. But still, it didn't turn out to be the runaway success it should have been. I thought it might be the first X-flick to at least near a billion big ones. Nope!

What's coming out at the end of May? Oh, yeah: X-Men: Apocalypse! What the?! Shouldn't they know better? Especially after that Fant4stic ultra-bomb?

It seems to me that the X-Men franchise has been on the edge for years. After X-men 3, it seemed the franchise was dead. First Class did OK, and was an attempted reboot. You're right that DoFP was throwing everything at the wall and again did OK. I don't know but I would also assume that the X-Men is a franchise on the edge....I also don't know what the studio's expectations are.

[Monker]

And, they cheered because the most boring first 2/3 of a film ever was over and they could wake up and somewhat enjoy themselves.

[Monker]

Zack Snyder Defends Aquaman’s Role in BATMAN V SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE
"Aquaman's Trident can cut the flesh of Superman.."
http://collider.com/aquaman-batman-v-superman-zack-snyder/

LOL...he has no "role". He pops out of a cave and you expect him to say, "Release the Kraken!" and instead he takes his trident and stabs the camera that is filming him. And, that's it. It's ludicrous to call that a "role".