Rock Star: Van Halen?

[NealIsGod]

Yes, they are both geniuses. One just has more demons than the other, sadly.

[jrnyman28]

Can't get any more landscape-ish than 'Cathedral!' And, I hear nothing but emotion when I listen to '316!' (tap, tap, tap, tap, tap)

(IMO)

To be honest, I will have to go back and re-listen to those. In all fairness, I have not really listened to the older VH stuff in a long time.

[jrnyman28]

That doesn't mean that a good, honest blue collar player like Neal Schon is Ed's superior in any way though.

I think we have reached an agreement in general. And I certainly did not mean to infer that Neal was superior. Ultimately, it is about the fact that they are different.

And, as I just posted, I will relisten to some more of EVH's instumentals!

[NealIsGod]

Spanish Fly still blows me away. I played it to my niece and nephew recently and their jaws dropped. They are young, and had no idea ANYONE could play guitar like that.

[Red13JoePa]

Yea those early sketch pieces Ed did were phenomenal. Spanish Fly is brilliant in its subtlety juxtaposed against the bombast of Eruption.
Little Guitars (intro), Cathedral, Intruder....

[Kenny]

juxtaposed....

Good word.

[Taliwakker]

They're BOTH GENIUSES

Like fuck they are.....EVH=yes
Neal Schon=how? What acts of genius has he pulled off ever?
I've heard plenty of Journey, Schon solo discs (IonU is crap),SS, Hardline, Bad English and whilst i admit it isn't the worst playing i have ever heard there is no way i could ever consider ranking him up there with the true masters of guitar like a lot of you Journey fanbois do without hesitation.

Kenny descibed him really well

a good, honest blue collar player

and i still don't get the 'he plays with more emotion' bullshit.
Humans have many emotions.....playing cliched blues licks with your eyes closed doesn't show emotion...or does he cry when he plays?

When Eddie got the shits recently and chucked/trashed his guitar he was being emotional

[Kenny]

They're BOTH GENIUSES

Neal Schon=how? What acts of genius has he pulled off ever?

making Journey fans THINK he's a genius?? That's gotta be classed as some kind of genius!!!

and i still don't get the 'he plays with more emotion' bullshit.
Humans have many emotions.....playing cliched blues licks with your eyes closed doesn't show emotion...or does he cry when he plays?

You tell 'em mate!!

When Eddie got the shits recently and chucked/trashed his guitar he was being emotional

[NealIsGod]

Wow, you guys are soooo smart. If Eddie is such a great player, why can't he make music anymore? Why can't he keep a singer in his band? Why did he let a once mighty rock band fall apart?

If you guys really were knowledgable about guitar, you would know that Neal Schon is one of the most respected players ever. The things you say are so ridiculous that it does nothing but expose your ignorance about the instrument.

[Kenny]

Oh, ok.....let's bash Ed!!! I was just cheering my bud Tali along dude......who actually PLAYS guitar very well.
If you don't like Edward and Van Halen, what the fuck are you doing in this forum??

**Sits down in armchair, cracks beer, ready for the show**

[NealIsGod]

Oh, ok.....let's bash Ed!!! I was just cheering my bud Tali along dude......who actually PLAYS guitar very well.
If you don't like Edward and Van Halen, what the fuck are you doing in this forum??

**Sits down in armchair, cracks beer, ready for the show**

I love Ed. I own every VH album, although VHIII is one of the worst albums I have ever heard. I am just saying that diminishing Neal's talent shows ignorance of Neal's music and the guitar as an instrument. If you don't like Neal's music, that's fine. There are a lot of musician's I do not like, but I do not go around saying they suck, or they are average. Ed is a genius on the rock guitar. Neal was a child prodigy asked to choose between joining Clapton's band or Santana at age 15. Neal is an outstanding player who can play any style with perfect technique and emotion. Eddie is a rock guitarist. Period. A great one, yes.

[jrnyman28]

Kenny descibed him really well

a good, honest blue collar player

That is fine.

and i still don't get the 'he plays with more emotion' bullshit.
Humans have many emotions.....playing cliched blues licks with your eyes closed doesn't show emotion...or does he cry when he plays?

What is your hang-up on how someone looks when playing the guitar? Who cares. I am talking about the emotion you can hear in the music being played!

When Eddie got the shits recently and chucked/trashed his guitar he was being emotional

Yes, he was being emotional, but you couldn't hear it in his guitar playing!

[jrnyman28]

Wow, you guys are soooo smart. If Eddie is such a great player, why can't he make music anymore? Why can't he keep a singer in his band? Why did he let a once mighty rock band fall apart?

In all fairness, no one was talking about smarts. but the rest of those points show how EVH has been self-destructing.

If you guys really were knowledgable about guitar, you would know that Neal Schon is one of the most respected players ever. The things you say are so ridiculous that it does nothing but expose your ignorance about the instrument.

He is respected by his peers and his fans, but never by the critics. Sad really.

[jrnyman28]

Oh, ok.....let's bash Ed!!!

Nobody is bashing Ed.

I was just cheering my bud Tali along dude......who actually PLAYS guitar very well.

Cool. I wish I could play guitar well. In fact, I am only now trying to learn again. But that has nothing to do with my ability to appreciate the music EVH AND Neal.

If you don't like Edward and Van Halen, what the fuck are you doing in this forum??

Who said I (or anyone else) doesn't like EVH. This is a comparison thread, it wasn't even a 'better than' thread.

[jrnyman28]

I love Ed. I own every VH album, although VHIII is one of the worst albums I have ever heard. I am just saying that diminishing Neal's talent shows ignorance of Neal's music and the guitar as an instrument. If you don't like Neal's music, that's fine. There are a lot of musician's I do not like, but I do not go around saying they suck, or they are average. Ed is a genius on the rock guitar. Neal was a child prodigy asked to choose between joining Clapton's band or Santana at age 15. Neal is an outstanding player who can play any style with perfect technique and emotion. Eddie is a rock guitarist. Period. A great one, yes.

Great post, well said!!

[Red13JoePa]

What the Christ does Neal's COUNTENANCE while he's playing have to do with his ability? It looks goofy to you. If I really wanted to go tit for tat, I'd say it's no goofier than Ed grinning that dopey ear-to-ear smile every time he's playing. But I'll keep to the high road. They're still both great, about equal. Ed's got more notoriety, period. Check with your countryman and benefactor of the site on his opinion.

[jrnyman28]

Alright, one final post (I hope) on this:

I was listening to F.U.C.K. this morning on the ride into work. I should have skipped to 316 but did not get the chance to hear it. But I was thinking about this thread and I wanted to try and better state my opinion. This is the best I could come up with.

When I listen to "Out Of Harm's Way I can feel anger in Neal's playing.
When I listen to "Beyond The Clouds" I can feel peace.
When I listen to "Mother, Father" I can feel the pain of a family falling apart.

When I listen to EVH (on anything he plays) I can feel the ROCK.

I have not found a specific example yet of feeling the emotion of the song through his guitar playing. I feel ROCK. That is not a bad thing, it is what he does so amazingly well.

[VH101]

Wow! Heavy stuff here.

Kenny, was that a green sandwich I heard?

[Taliwakker]

Neal is God wrote

I am just saying that diminishing Neal's talent shows ignorance of Neal's music and the guitar as an instrument. If you don't like Neal's music, that's fine. There are a lot of musician's I do not like, but I do not go around saying they suck, or they are average

Like fuck it does....overinflating his abilities shows your ignorance of Neal's music and the guitar as an instrument.
I don't dislike his music but i have been playing guitar for a fair time, been teaching music professionally for 10 years and i think i know a thing or two about what is good or not and what constitutes genius or not.
During his career Neal has played a number of different styles but he really hasn't done anything i would consider original or groundbreaking. More of a follower than a leader.
When i think guitar 'genius' i am thinking these type of guitar players...

EVH
Allan Holdsworth (best ever)
Steve Vai
John McLaughlin
Mattias Eklundh
Ron Thal
Robert Fripp

All of these guys have pushed the boundaries and created new musical landscapes with amazing technical prowess (without it getting in the way of songwriting).


RedJoe wrote

What the Christ does Neal's COUNTENANCE while he's playing have to do with his ability? It looks goofy to you. If I really wanted to go tit for tat, I'd say it's no goofier than Ed grinning that dopey ear-to-ear smile every time he's playing.

Nothing...who said it does? I said that closing your eyes and putting your head back does not necessarily = emotional guitar playing.
I love Vai but he has to pull the worst guitar faces of all time. Doesn't bother me though.

Check with your countryman and benefactor of the site on his opinion.

Andrew is entitled to his opnion...and you are entitled to mine

Kenny wrote

making Journey fans THINK he's a genius?? That's gotta be classed as some kind of genius!!!

Pearler

[Kenny]

Oh, ok.....let's bash Ed!!!

Nobody is bashing Ed.

I was just cheering my bud Tali along dude......who actually PLAYS guitar very well.

Cool. I wish I could play guitar well. In fact, I am only now trying to learn again. But that has nothing to do with my ability to appreciate the music EVH AND Neal.

If you don't like Edward and Van Halen, what the fuck are you doing in this forum??

Who said I (or anyone else) doesn't like EVH. This is a comparison thread, it wasn't even a 'better than' thread.

Dude, all those quotes were related to NealisGod's comments........

[VH101]

Just back from the Journey show in Grand Prairie (Dallas more and less).

Mr. Schon does not play with more emotion (in this instance) than EVH.

However, they are both extremely talented guitarists. And, I am not the person to ask who is better. I think I will always prefer listening to Ed over Neal.

[NealIsGod]

It is pointless to argue over who is a "better" guitarist. Both are incredible and we are all lucky to have their heard their music and performances.

[Kenny]

I heartily agree it is a pointless exercise.
A bit like the old Sammy vs. Dave arguments on the VH.Links board used to be, or indeed, the Perry vs. Augeri arguments that have so polarised Journey fans and caused so much trouble here.

Here's something that may help - this is the Van Halen forum, and the thread was about Van Halen. If you Journey dudes keep Journey out of it, then there won't be any arguments, even though there really isn't one, if you follow.

[NealIsGod]

If you Journey dudes keep Journey out of it, then there won't be any arguments, even though there really isn't one, if you follow.

That's funny, b/c you and ltbob, whoever that is, began the Neal vs. Eddie debate in this thread. I just joined in...

[Red13JoePa]

Nope, NIG.
Schon makes faces when he plays. He CAN'T be as good as Edward. Period.

[NealIsGod]

Actually, Red, I LOVE when guitarists make faces. Eddie made the coolest ones. I can't imagine the hole in my musical life without those two guys!

[jrnyman28]

If you Journey dudes keep Journey out of it, then there won't be any arguments, even though there really isn't one, if you follow.

That's funny, b/c you and ltbob, whoever that is, began the Neal vs. Eddie debate in this thread. I just joined in...

Bingo!

[Taliwakker]

Red wrote

Schon makes faces when he plays. He CAN'T be as good as Edward. Period.

Nobody said that...just that faces don't='more emotional depth of playing'.
I thought that was pretty clear...but being a diehard Journey fan may have clouded more than just your judgement

[jrnyman28]

Red wrote

Schon makes faces when he plays. He CAN'T be as good as Edward. Period.

Nobody said that...just that faces don't='more emotional depth of playing'.
I thought that was pretty clear...but being a diehard Journey fan may have clouded more than just your judgement

Except YOU were the one that brought up the faces...

[Taliwakker]

jrnyman wrote

Except YOU were the one that brought up the faces...

Yes i did...but if you can point out where i said that guitarists who pull faces must suck then i will happily eat the next thing that falls from Neal Schon's asshole.