Innocent Photos Get Kids Taken Away From Parents

[walkslikealady]

Then you'd condone non-action if you saw someone beating a child just because the person isn't a cop empowered to act?

No, I don't have children because I made the decision not to have children. I was abused as a child and I'm aware abused children sometimes become abusers.

[JasonD]

At what age should someone stop bathing with their child? I still take baths with my daughter. She loves it when I make a beard out of the soap bubbles & then I "Ho, ho, ho" like Santa Claus. She'll turn 6 on January 8th. Is she too old for that sort of thing?

[The Sushi Hunter]

this is so sad. i have so many 'naked' pics of wyatt.... in the tub, running around.... i have a pic of him in the tub on my desktop of my work computer! i give wyatt a swat or pinch. i suppose i'm a bad parent . we never got hit as kids, but a swat happened and we learn. i can't tell you how many times i wish i could whop some of my students upside the head!

We've got tons of bath photos of our kids. There isn't a parent on earth that is different from us, Lula.

i hope these people sue the crap out of walmart.

Agreed! And I hope they win big enough to put walmart out of business....

Yeah, my grandparents still have all of the pictures of us grandkids in the tub at their house, and before that their own kids in the same tub. That tub has seen generations of kids.

About the Wal-Mart employee, I wouldn't come down on them that hard, that would be like prosecuting someone for calling 911 after they heard someone screaming. Now if the Wal-Mart employee did something like took the pix and posted them on the internet saying this is what child molesters do, then yeah bust their ass! But I think the problem started when authorities took the ball and started running with it. The parents should go after the organization who took away their kids and pressed charges against them.

[strangegrey]

Then you'd condone non-action if you saw someone beating a child just because the person isn't a cop empowered to act?

Pray tell....How the fuck do you go from pictures of happy children taking a bath to "someone beating a child?"
In what universe is assault equivalent to family togetherness? Where ever it is, you might want to catch the nearest flight back.....

Holy Fuck!

No, I don't have children because I made the decision not to have children. I was abused as a child and I'm aware abused children sometimes become abusers.

I don't care about why you don't have children...but the fact that you don't is quite evident by your condoning of the dispicable actions of this walmart employee.

[strangegrey]

About the Wal-Mart employee, I wouldn't come down on them that hard, that would be like prosecuting someone for calling 911 after they heard someone screaming. Now if the Wal-Mart employee did something like took the pix and posted them on the internet saying this is what child molesters do, then yeah bust their ass! But I think the problem started when authorities took the ball and started running with it. The parents should go after the organization who took away their kids and pressed charges against them.

I disagree. I'm not sure what's written in the fine-print of photo developing agreements, but there's a certain expectation of privacy that I feel was violated for this family.

Even so, the employee assumes a certain amount of responsibility in this, ESPECIALLY if the family wins its case against CPS.


If I were the family, I'd sue walmart for all they were worth...and hope to win. Because it would force Walmart to either stop developing photos (which it wouldn't do) or remove human review from the process, to avoid liability..

[walkslikealady]

I think the employee did the right thing...better err on the side of caution IMO. The situation may have been handled better by the Child Protection Agency (or whatever they call it in that state); however, the agencies have their own rules they have to follow.

strangegrey, I think you're a nut!

[walkslikealady]

At what age should someone stop bathing with their child? I still take baths with my daughter. She loves it when I make a beard out of the soap bubbles & then I "Ho, ho, ho" like Santa Claus. She'll turn 6 on January 8th. Is she too old for that sort of thing?

Don't know what to advise you on this in this day and age...look what happened to these parents just taking pictures! My mom was very extreme...made me quit sitting on my dad's fully-clothed lap when I was 6.

BTW...I didn't say it was wrong for the parents to take the pictures of their own kids. However, what if the Walmart employee had been a perv and copied the pics?

[The Sushi Hunter]

About the Wal-Mart employee, I wouldn't come down on them that hard, that would be like prosecuting someone for calling 911 after they heard someone screaming. Now if the Wal-Mart employee did something like took the pix and posted them on the internet saying this is what child molesters do, then yeah bust their ass! But I think the problem started when authorities took the ball and started running with it. The parents should go after the organization who took away their kids and pressed charges against them.

I disagree. I'm not sure what's written in the fine-print of photo developing agreements, but there's a certain expectation of privacy that I feel was violated for this family.

Even so, the employee assumes a certain amount of responsibility in this, ESPECIALLY if the family wins its case against CPS.


If I were the family, I'd sue walmart for all they were worth...and hope to win. Because it would force Walmart to either stop developing photos (which it wouldn't do) or remove human review from the process, to avoid liability..

Photo developing personnel are always looking at the photos and they are told to I'm sure. It seems to me a few years ago a kid had took pix of his arsenal of pipe bombs, weapons and ammo. He was plotting to pull a full-on assault at his school. The person developing the pix I believe was a chick, she saw the pix as they were being developed and alerted authorities. They stopped the kid while he was on his way to school that day if I recall correctly, with much of the weapons on him. Anyone remember this?

[The Sushi Hunter]

At what age should someone stop bathing with their child? I still take baths with my daughter. She loves it when I make a beard out of the soap bubbles & then I "Ho, ho, ho" like Santa Claus. She'll turn 6 on January 8th. Is she too old for that sort of thing?

Don't know what to advise you on this in this day and age...look what happened to these parents just taking pictures! My mom was very extreme...made me quit sitting on my dad's fully-clothed lap when I was 6.

BTW...I didn't say it was wrong for the parents to take the pictures of their own kids. However, what if the Walmart employee had been a perv and copied the pics?

If the Wal-Mart employee copied them and was caught, they should be prosecuted.

[strangegrey]

strangegrey, I think you're a nut!

Gee, thanks!!!

Personally, I'm glad you don't have children and you might want to take even further precautions to prevent yourself from taking any jobs that might either put you around children or put you in a position to ruin another family (like doing pictures at walmart).

It's clear you think happy families are really just physically abusive ones...

[mikemarrs]

this is so sad. i have so many 'naked' pics of wyatt.... in the tub, running around.... i have a pic of him in the tub on my desktop of my work computer! i give wyatt a swat or pinch. i suppose i'm a bad parent . we never got hit as kids, but a swat happened and we learn. i can't tell you how many times i wish i could whop some of my students upside the head!

i hope these people sue the crap out of walmart.

same here.i have a five and four year old and i take my photos to walgreens.been a photo here and there of my kids playing in the bath.if i were the parents i'd sue wal mart and whoever else involved who put that couple through hell.

[Michigan Girl]

At what age should someone stop bathing with their child? I still take baths with my daughter. She loves it when I make a beard out of the soap bubbles & then I "Ho, ho, ho" like Santa Claus. She'll turn 6 on January 8th. Is she too old for that sort of thing?

My opinion would be YES!!! But only because she's a girl and you asked!!!

[MCC620]

i sat on a federal grand jury for 18 months (on call once a week)

the last case we heard was a child predator. he had 4 computers in his home filled with child pornography. the majority of photos were photoshopped, however, according to the district attorney, even using a real child's face in a pornographic picture is considered against the law. he went on to say that alot of the time they find that these photos are taken from developing centers and scanned, as well as, right clicked and saved from facebook, myspace and other sites that allow photo sharing. there's some food for thought to all the parents who post pictures of their kids. i do think this whole case was blown out of proportion, but let's remember, what appears to be a happy family moment in a picture may not always be the real life case and considering all the recent abuses and murders of innocent children, maybe sometimes it is better to err on the side of caution.

[strangegrey]

Photo developing personnel are always looking at the photos and they are told to I'm sure. It seems to me a few years ago a kid had took pix of his arsenal of pipe bombs, weapons and ammo. He was plotting to pull a full-on assault at his school. The person developing the pix I believe was a chick, she saw the pix as they were being developed and alerted authorities. They stopped the kid while he was on his way to school that day if I recall correctly, with much of the weapons on him. Anyone remember this?

I do! and all I can say is that these two situations are at FAR opposite sides of grey area regarding privacy....

One is justified, one isn't. That's the thing with laws, crimes and offenses. They come in all shapes and sizes...and one size never fits all.

I will also submit that pictures of pipe bombs, weapons and ammo may be a little more clear cut than say, looking at a picture of a happy family and seeing sexual abuse. We've already proven that some people (even right here on this forum) are impaired enough to not know the difference between a happy family and abuse.....

I suspect, if we all saw a picture of a table full of pipe bombs, we might get a tad alarmed, however...




I do think, that if walmart isn't successful in defense of this family, you might see a chance in this policy....for liability sake.

[strangegrey]

i sat on a federal grand jury for 18 months (on call once a week)

the last case we heard was a child predator. he had 4 computers in his home filled with child pornography. the majority of photos were photoshopped, however, according to the district attorney, even using a real child's face in a pornographic picture is considered against the law. he went on to say that alot of the time they find that these photos are taken from developing centers and scanned, as well as, right clicked and saved from facebook, myspace and other sites that allow photo sharing. there's some food for thought to all the parents who post pictures of their kids. i do think this whole case was blown out of proportion, but let's remember, what appears to be a happy family moment in a picture may not always be the real life case and considering all the recent abuses and murders of innocent children, maybe sometimes it is better to err on the side of caution.

You do realize that the abuses/murders of innocent children factor for such an insignificantly small percentage of actual happy families out there?

You're suggesting a big-brotheresque watch dogging of family photos...that's nuts! plain and simple.

There are bad people out there...but putting good ones under the microscope is wrong.

[walkslikealady]

Hate Walmart...haven't been there in over six months! However, I do think the employee was right to report it.

BTW...my abuse was physical, not sexual, and I wish one person had reported those bruises, etc.

[MCC620]

i sat on a federal grand jury for 18 months (on call once a week)

the last case we heard was a child predator. he had 4 computers in his home filled with child pornography. the majority of photos were photoshopped, however, according to the district attorney, even using a real child's face in a pornographic picture is considered against the law. he went on to say that alot of the time they find that these photos are taken from developing centers and scanned, as well as, right clicked and saved from facebook, myspace and other sites that allow photo sharing. there's some food for thought to all the parents who post pictures of their kids. i do think this whole case was blown out of proportion, but let's remember, what appears to be a happy family moment in a picture may not always be the real life case and considering all the recent abuses and murders of innocent children, maybe sometimes it is better to err on the side of caution.

You do realize that the abuses/murders of innocent children factor for such an insignificantly small percentage of actual happy families out there?
You're suggesting a big-brotheresque watch dogging of family photos...that's nuts! plain and simple.
There are bad people out there...but putting good ones under the microscope is wrong.

no that's not what i'm suggesting, i think it was handled wrong all around. the protective services failed too. i think it's a fine line and a tough call. but the point i was really trying to make is that those people might have set their children up to have their photos used for the wrong thing.

[The Sushi Hunter]

Photo developing personnel are always looking at the photos and they are told to I'm sure. It seems to me a few years ago a kid had took pix of his arsenal of pipe bombs, weapons and ammo. He was plotting to pull a full-on assault at his school. The person developing the pix I believe was a chick, she saw the pix as they were being developed and alerted authorities. They stopped the kid while he was on his way to school that day if I recall correctly, with much of the weapons on him. Anyone remember this?

I do! and all I can say is that these two situations are at FAR opposite sides of grey area regarding privacy....

One is justified, one isn't. That's the thing with laws, crimes and offenses. They come in all shapes and sizes...and one size never fits all.

I will also submit that pictures of pipe bombs, weapons and ammo may be a little more clear cut than say, looking at a picture of a happy family and seeing sexual abuse. We've already proven that some people (even right here on this forum) are impaired enough to not know the difference between a happy family and abuse.....

I suspect, if we all saw a picture of a table full of pipe bombs, we might get a tad alarmed, however...




I do think, that if walmart isn't successful in defense of this family, you might see a chance in this policy....for liability sake.

I know the two are completely different altogether, but they both have a common ground, they dealt with a second party, the person developing the film. I simply used that to state that yes, those people developing your film are going to look at it.

[JasonD]

At what age should someone stop bathing with their child? I still take baths with my daughter. She loves it when I make a beard out of the soap bubbles & then I "Ho, ho, ho" like Santa Claus. She'll turn 6 on January 8th. Is she too old for that sort of thing?

My opinion would be YES!!! But only because she's a girl and you asked!!!

Yeah, I guess I kind of agree with you, MG. She is starting to ask questions. I just hate it that she's growing up. Right now she thinks I'm Santa Claus & Jesus & Superman & everything good in the world. I guess I'm just dreading the day when she gets older & she realizes I'm ordinary.

I have another question for anyone's opinion: Do you think it would be okay if I still took baths with her providing I wear shorts? To me, it would be kind of like being in a swimming pool, but since it is a bath & she would still be naked, is that inappropriate at her age? What I'm trying to ask is this: How old is too old for a dad to bathe his daughter? At what age do children start doing that for themselves? Thanks. I appreciate any advice you can give me.

[slucero]

judge tossed the case = Walmart having to dig DEEP.

[walkslikealady]

At what age should someone stop bathing with their child? I still take baths with my daughter. She loves it when I make a beard out of the soap bubbles & then I "Ho, ho, ho" like Santa Claus. She'll turn 6 on January 8th. Is she too old for that sort of thing?

My opinion would be YES!!! But only because she's a girl and you asked!!!

Yeah, I guess I kind of agree with you, MG. She is starting to ask questions. I just hate it that she's growing up. Right now she thinks I'm Santa Claus & Jesus & Superman & everything good in the world. I guess I'm just dreading the day when she gets older & she realizes I'm ordinary.

I have another question for anyone's opinion: Do you think it would be okay if I still took baths with her providing I wear shorts? To me, it would be kind of like being in a swimming pool, but since it is a bath & she would still be naked, is that inappropriate at her age? What I'm trying to ask is this: How old is too old for a dad to bathe his daughter? At what age do children start doing that for themselves? Thanks. I appreciate any advice you can give me.

Don't know the current parenting advice, JasonD. My dad would never have even thought to bath me...that was the late 50's and early 60's. You'd know today's mores better than I.

[strangegrey]

judge tossed the case = Walmart having to dig DEEP.

Do you have a link? That'd be intersting to read....

[slucero]

First portion below... link to full article: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/arizona-coupl ... id=8624533

Bath Time Photos Prompt Child Porn Allegations
Arizona Couple Sues Wal-Mart for Calling Cops Over Bath Time Photos

By DAN PRZYGODA, SARAH NETTER and DESIREE ADIB

Sept. 21, 2009—

For A.J. and Lisa Demaree, the photos they snapped of their young daughters were innocent and sweet.

But after a photo developer at Wal-Mart thought otherwise, the Demarees found themselves in a yearlong battle to prove they were not child pornographers.

"I don't' understand it at all," A.J. Demaree told "Good Morning America" Monday. "Ninety-nine percent of the families in America have these exact same photos."

The eight photos in question were among a batch of 144 family photos the Demarees had taken to their local Wal-Mart. The developer alerted the police and the investigation into child pornography began in earnest, even though the parents maintained they were innocent bath time photos.

The Peoria, Ariz., couple had their home searched by police and worse, their children -- then ages 18 months, 4 and 5 -- were taken from them for more than month. Their names were placed on a sex offender registry for a time, and Lisa Demaree was suspended from her school job for a year. The couple said they have spent $75,000 on legal bills.

A report issued by local authorities described the photos as "child erotica" and "sex exploitation," the couple's lawyer Dick Treon told "Good Morning America." He said the person responsible for the report was unqualified to make such judgments.

The Demarees are now sharing a few of the photos with the public, he said, so the "truth to catch up with the lie."

"These photos were never intended for anyone to see except for family members," Treon said. "Perversion is in the eye of the viewer."

Eventually, a judge threw out charges against the Demarees, but now they're going on the legal offensive by suing the state, the city and Wal-Mart for their role in what they call a "nightmare."

[Lula]

jason, a little girl never sees her daddy as ordinary, you'll always be her hero if you play your cards right. my pop was just an average working joe. we never had money or anything fancy. my dad served in WWII, went to church on sundays (my mom didn't), we were raised in the irish catholic tradition. my father is my hero. he loved us, all 6 of us, til the day he died.

as for the bath thing- that is your call. in my feeling, i'd say she is probably getting near the age where she could be in the tub alone, but you can still be there... i don't know. i totally know what you mean about growing up, wyatt is 2 and he is growing too fast!

as for this family- sue them all!!! i'd go insane if wyatt was taken from me for 10 minutes! the thought of my son being in the system scares the living daylights out of me. sue, and sue big!

[JasonD]

jason, a little girl never sees her daddy as ordinary, you'll always be her hero if you play your cards right. my pop was just an average working joe. we never had money or anything fancy. my dad served in WWII, went to church on sundays (my mom didn't), we were raised in the irish catholic tradition. my father is my hero. he loved us, all 6 of us, til the day he died.

as for the bath thing- that is your call. in my feeling, i'd say she is probably getting near the age where she could be in the tub alone, but you can still be there... i don't know. i totally know what you mean about growing up, wyatt is 2 and he is growing too fast!

as for this family- sue them all!!! i'd go insane if wyatt was taken from me for 10 minutes! the thought of my son being in the system scares the living daylights out of me. sue, and sue big!

Thanks, Lula. That was sweet of you to say. Still, it's one of the moments I dread the most. That, & the day she screams the inevitable, "I HATE YOU" all children eventually scream to their parents.

It sounds like you had a great relationship with your dad. He must have been a great man for you to still see him as your hero. You're right that money & fancy things aren't what matters in this world. I'd rather be poor & have my daughter than be wealthy & without her.

The bath time thing I gotta work on, I know. Emily is very much a daddy's girl so I know she's going to cry when I have to stay on the outside of the tub & it kills me to break her heart, but I know it's something I hafta do.

I agree with you & the rest of the people here who say that family ought to sue. Yes, there are too many people in this world who go "sue crazy" & sue over frivelous things like their cup of McDonalds coffee was too hot,.... or Burger King made them gain weight or whatever, but this family does have a valid point. Minding their own business they were thrown into a crazy situation having their home searched & their children taken away for a month!!! That's absurd!!!

[stevew2]

At what age should someone stop bathing with their child? I still take baths with my daughter. She loves it when I make a beard out of the soap bubbles & then I "Ho, ho, ho" like Santa Claus. She'll turn 6 on January 8th. Is she too old for that sort of thing?

Can you grow a real beard?

[PDiddy75]

At what age should someone stop bathing with their child? I still take baths with my daughter. She loves it when I make a beard out of the soap bubbles & then I "Ho, ho, ho" like Santa Claus. She'll turn 6 on January 8th. Is she too old for that sort of thing?

My opinion would be YES!!! But only because she's a girl and you asked!!!

Yeah, I guess I kind of agree with you, MG. She is starting to ask questions. I just hate it that she's growing up. Right now she thinks I'm Santa Claus & Jesus & Superman & everything good in the world. I guess I'm just dreading the day when she gets older & she realizes I'm ordinary.

I have another question for anyone's opinion: Do you think it would be okay if I still took baths with her providing I wear shorts? To me, it would be kind of like being in a swimming pool, but since it is a bath & she would still be naked, is that inappropriate at her age? What I'm trying to ask is this: How old is too old for a dad to bathe his daughter? At what age do children start doing that for themselves? Thanks. I appreciate any advice you can give me.

Not to say anything about anyones parenting, cuz God knows, we all do it different....but yes, that is very "odd" to me for a grown man to take a bath nude with his 6 year old daughter. 1st grader. I think 4 is pushing it. I think she needs to be bathed by herself with your assistance outside the tub. Im not saying you are wrong....but from the outside looking in, its just "not right", ya know? Reason being, I have memories of 1st grade, and maybe even a bit before that, and one of those memories I wouldnt want to be of me and my Dad in the tub together. I see your point of being in shorts instead, but if I were you I would save that then for the pool. You can have fun with her and laugh just the same while your kneeling down OUTSIDE the tub by her. Im only saying all this because you did ask for an honest opinion. Sorry if I offended you in anyway, I didnt mean too.

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

i used to take baths with my daughter when she was 5, 6 we ld both fart im the bathtub but i would never a video of it.it was fun a shit though,smelled like shit to

Although I think it's a little weird to be taking baths with your 5 or 6 year old daughter, I still am laughing my ass off at this post.

Dont you and Saint John take baths together? I dont really want to see a picture of it though

You bet they do.
But Tito is shy, so he wears his "Transformers" swimming shorts in the bathtub.
Unless Dan was lying when he told me that.

They were "Muppets" weren't they?!?! I knew it.

STOP IT!!! I have soiled myself....

[stevew2]

At what age should someone stop bathing with their child? I still take baths with my daughter. She loves it when I make a beard out of the soap bubbles & then I "Ho, ho, ho" like Santa Claus. She'll turn 6 on January 8th. Is she too old for that sort of thing?

My opinion would be YES!!! But only because she's a girl and you asked!!!

Yeah, I guess I kind of agree with you, MG. She is starting to ask questions. I just hate it that she's growing up. Right now she thinks I'm Santa Claus & Jesus & Superman & everything good in the world. I guess I'm just dreading the day when she gets older & she realizes I'm ordinary.

I have another question for anyone's opinion: Do you think it would be okay if I still took baths with her providing I wear shorts? To me, it would be kind of like being in a swimming pool, but since it is a bath & she would still be naked, is that inappropriate at her age? What I'm trying to ask is this: How old is too old for a dad to bathe his daughter? At what age do children start doing that for themselves? Thanks. I appreciate any advice you can give me.

Not to say anything about anyones parenting, cuz God knows, we all do it different....but yes, that is very "odd" to me for a grown man to take a bath nude with his 6 year old daughter. 1st grader. I think 4 is pushing it. I think she needs to be bathed by herself with your assistance outside the tub. Im not saying you are wrong....but from the outside looking in, its just "not right", ya know? Reason being, I have memories of 1st grade, and maybe even a bit before that, and one of those memories I wouldnt want to be of me and my Dad in the tub together. I see your point of being in shorts instead, but if I were you I would save that then for the pool. You can have fun with her and laugh just the same while your kneeling down OUTSIDE the tub by her. Im only saying all this because you did ask for an honest opinion. Sorry if I offended you in anyway, I didnt mean too.

Its hard to put a age limit on that kinda thing ,kids are inocent they trust there parents,if there parents love them and arent wackjobs its really up to them . If they star gettin hair on there junk then thats enough unless you live in WV, or Kentucky

[(Crazy)Dulce Lady]

Hate Walmart...haven't been there in over six months! However, I do think the employee was right to report it.

BTW...my abuse was physical, not sexual, and I wish one person had reported those bruises, etc.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that.